Why are Tier 6 items "drop only" and not crafted??

[Palad1n]

This is a slap or rather, punch to the face when the crafting system stops you at Tier 5 (blue quality) and you are required to find/loot tier 6 items. 

 

Frankly, the loot system should stop at Tier 3, and require players to craft up through Tier 6 by adding in special unique items that are rare to find. 

 

As things are now, I don't have to craft armor, I don't have to craft weapons, or tools. I simply find the best quality items while on difficulty 4/5 by the time I get into my 40's that investing in crafting for the bonus dmg and reload speed is the only reason for doing so. 

 

TFP needs to stop watering down the crafting system and give it real attention that makes sense. If not, I am sure the modding community can do a much better job balancing this. 

[RipClaw]

This was a decision made by the Fun Pimps in A18. It should give players the incentive to loot even in the late game.
 

[Dracula]

I get this, from a game standpoint, but it doesn't make sense from an IRL standpoint.  I worked as a mechanic for awhile to pay for mortuary school expenses.  I can build a vehicle that's better in an adverse situation than anything out there.  I'm sure I could do the same with guns if I gathered all the right parts and carefully crafted one.  The thousands of YouTube channels dedicated to how to make ____ better with a few simple mods support this.

 

I miss the ability to craft level 6 items and wish it would revert to the previous system of leveled components to make them; or, perhaps, add a perk like "Fine Tuning" which allows you to craft level 6 items, but requires 3 Level 5 items.  Granted, that's just me throwing out ideas from nothing.

[Palad1n]

34 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

This was a decision made by the Fun Pimps in A18. It should give players the incentive to loot even in the late game.
 

 

No, it's poor game design. TFP could have added in special rare loot required to craft Tier 6 weapons - armor - misc, thus giving a reason to loot things late game. If this is the direction TFP continues, I have no doubt the modding community will fix it. 

[Kosmic Kerman]

1 hour ago, Palad1n said:

This is a slap or rather, punch to the face

This is such an over-used phrase by aggrieved gamers that most people (especially devs) will just ignore what follows. In terms of why the change was made in previous alphas, it was to encourage people to loot purple tools rather than be able to craft them.

[RipClaw]

Just now, Palad1n said:

 

No, it's poor game design. TFP could have added in special rare loot required to craft Tier 6 weapons - armor - misc, thus giving a reason to loot things late game. If this is the direction TFP continues, I have no doubt the modding community will fix it. 

The decision was received very controversially. Especially since it was common practice for a long time to be able to craft Q6 items.

There were modlets for A18 that allowed you to make Q6 items. But I don't know if they are compatible with A19.

I don't know now if this is a temporary solution until real legendary items come or if it will stay that way permanently.
 

[JCrook1028]

T6 are a placeholder for Legendary Weapons.

[PoloPoPo]

I like the fact that you are not able to craft tier 6 stuff yourself. Makes those things more special / unique and it gives you an incentive to loot even in the later game.

[Daggett Beaver]

3 hours ago, Dracula said:

I get this, from a game standpoint, but it doesn't make sense from an IRL standpoint. 

Oh please, please don't use this argument.

Literally tons of features of this game are obviously not "realistic", because "realistic" wouldn't be fun. Zombies for example. Or Loot Respawning. Or not dying to a single Zombie bite / Bullet in the head. This is a game, these things are decided based on how fun things are, not how "realistic" they are.

 

As for the topic, i do agree that it would be better if you needed both to get Tier 6: Loot and have a competent crafter.

 

The best system would indeed be that you need to loot very hard to find ingredients for Tier 6 weapons and then use crafting skills to craft weapons from those ingredients.

 

If you like "Loot till you find Tier 6 stuff" or "Powerlevel until you can mass-craft everything on Tier 6" better is a pure question of personal preference. I prefer the looting part, although it creates a very short window in which crafting skills are relevant (means: there is a very short time between being able to craft a certain high quality tool / weapon and finding a better one).

[bloodmoth13]

9 hours ago, Daggett Beaver said:

Oh please, please don't use this argument.

Literally tons of features of this game are obviously not "realistic", because "realistic" wouldn't be fun. Zombies for example. Or Loot Respawning. Or not dying to a single Zombie bite / Bullet in the head. This is a game, these things are decided based on how fun things are, not how "realistic" they are.

 

As for the topic, i do agree that it would be better if you needed both to get Tier 6: Loot and have a competent crafter.

 

The best system would indeed be that you need to loot very hard to find ingredients for Tier 6 weapons and then use crafting skills to craft weapons from those ingredients.

 

If you like "Loot till you find Tier 6 stuff" or "Powerlevel until you can mass-craft everything on Tier 6" better is a pure question of personal preference. I prefer the looting part, although it creates a very short window in which crafting skills are relevant (means: there is a very short time between being able to craft a certain high quality tool / weapon and finding a better one).

Eh, its nice to have access to high quality weapons that you dont specialize in. Needing to spec into shotguns to get a t6 shotgun is a bit excessive, the crafting perks are already merged in with the combat perks and are probably the best bang for buck out of any perk in the game. Having more shotgun damage is already enough.

 

I considered having t6 item that allows you to craft a t6 weapon, but you may as well have just had looted  that weapon in the first place unless it was just a generic item that let you craft any item 1 tier higher than usual.

In my current game, i was looting Q1 tier 3 items, i had the ability to craft Q5 versions which were far superior to the ones i was looting at the time, and for most situations were more than enough. Crafting is more like a failsafe for bad loot luck. 

 

Maybe they will add broken t6 weapons in the future that you need to craft to fix or something, that should be fine, but i think its perfectly fine to be only be able to craft Q5 weapons, it keeps looting relevant

[Palad1n]

14 hours ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

This is such an over-used phrase by aggrieved gamers that most people (especially devs) will just ignore what follows. In terms of why the change was made in previous alphas, it was to encourage people to loot purple tools rather than be able to craft them.

 

So in game design, they could have also easily created new rare items that are needed to craft the Tier 6 weapons, gear, etc. As things are now, it takes out the desire to even craft gear, because the game drops it so freely like candy as you progress and lvl up. The only reason to even put pts into heavy armor, or light armor, is to get some of the benefits from what those skill lines offer, and nothing to do with actual crafting. 

 

As I stated, it is a lazy way to go and was brought up before many times years ago, but for "reasons", TFP continues to make choices to water down the journey and make crafting an after thought instead of embracing the crafting system and putting some actual thought and creativity behind it. 

[Dracula]

My point is that there is no incentive to craft items or put points in crafring when you will never be able to make the best items; it kills the "crafting" aspect of the game.

[Kosmic Kerman]

To each their own. I've crafted more weapons in A19 then I did in A18. 

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Dracula said:

My point is that there is no incentive to craft items or put points in crafring when you will never be able to make the best items; it kills the "crafting" aspect of the game.

So, (assuming you are speccing into shotgun) do you throw away or sell a looted quality 5 shotgun because you know there is a quality 6 shotgun out there you eventually can find. Because the incentive to use it is just not there? 😉

 

Do you craft a quality 5 shotgun when you have the materials and use it instead of your current quality 3 shotgun, or do you not craft it and wait for the quality 6 shotgun to drop?

 

If would assume that you don't craft that quality 5 shotgun because there is no incentive, right?

 

 

[Pichii]

On 7/10/2020 at 7:27 AM, Palad1n said:

This is a slap or rather, punch to the face when the crafting system stops you at Tier 5 (blue quality) and you are required to find/loot tier 6 items. 

 

Frankly, the loot system should stop at Tier 3, and require players to craft up through Tier 6 by adding in special unique items that are rare to find. 

 

As things are now, I don't have to craft armor, I don't have to craft weapons, or tools. I simply find the best quality items while on difficulty 4/5 by the time I get into my 40's that investing in crafting for the bonus dmg and reload speed is the only reason for doing so. 

 

TFP needs to stop watering down the crafting system and give it real attention that makes sense. If not, I am sure the modding community can do a much better job balancing this. 

There is talk in other places about a weapon rework coming... At some point in the future.
(Get ready to have to scrap your favorite gun when you cant repair it anymore.)
If you are crying now, just you wait my friend. Your jaw gona hit the floor when you see what the pimps have in store for us in upcoming patches. ❤️ lol

-Its also been suggested to allow players to craft high tier items but have these parts be extremely rare, in exchange for having limited repairs. 😛
Choose your poison carefully.

[Dracula]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

So, (assuming you are speccing into shotgun) do you throw away or sell a looted quality 5 shotgun because you know there is a quality 6 shotgun out there you eventually can find. Because the incentive to use it is just not there? 😉

 

Do you craft a quality 5 shotgun when you have the materials and use it instead of your current quality 3 shotgun, or do you not craft it and wait for the quality 6 shotgun to drop?

 

If would assume that you don't craft that quality 5 shotgun because there is no incentive, right?

 

 

I use what I can find; currently a level 4, and would sell it if I found a better one, nut have not bothered to put points into crafting to make a 5 when I'll eventually find a 5 or 6.

 

The whole "you can't make it no matter what" is always going to have a knee-jerk reaction to me in a game with a crafting focus.

[Liesel Weppen]

On 7/10/2020 at 5:08 PM, Dracula said:

I get this, from a game standpoint, but it doesn't make sense from an IRL standpoint.

So you understood it? It's a game, not a real life simulator 😛

So things are designed for a games standpoint not from a real life one.

 

Not being able to craft T6 simply should make you explore and loot. Not just loot raw materials and then craft, but loot for weapons/tools themselfs.

[RestInPieces]

Limited repairing is essential imo, to keep looting relevant and make crafting great again tm.

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, RestInPieces said:

Limited repairing is essential imo, to keep looting relevant and make crafting great again tm.

No. Just no. It takes forever to find Q6 tools in every playthrough. Even if I do one level 5 quest after another and invest points in Daring Adventurer.

I don't want to lose what I found just because some players want to loot endlessly.

 

[FA_Q2]

5 hours ago, Dracula said:

I use what I can find; currently a level 4, and would sell it if I found a better one, nut have not bothered to put points into crafting to make a 5 when I'll eventually find a 5 or 6.

 

The whole "you can't make it no matter what" is always going to have a knee-jerk reaction to me in a game with a crafting focus.

"not bothered to put points into crafting"

 

There are no crafting perks anymore.  Crafting comes with more competent use.  If you like shotguns it goes without saying that the perk increasing damage, knockdown and severing limbs is going to be pretty damn useful.  The fact that perk comes with crafting is just a bonus so that you can use shotguns of decent quality even if RNG Jesus is being an @%$*#!.

 

Your complaint has not been relevant since the intellect changes in A18.

 

[ElCabong]

I'm getting around just fine with a blue set of military gear. I am not sure how much better off I would be with purple.

[watzlp]

Honestly, I always felt t6 items should be craftable but at lv10 intellect as a PERK allowing you to craft any of your other lv5 items up 1 teir, you already get punished for crafting non iron tools by having to find and scrap steel parts off rng based tools as is. On top of that since now each tool has its own rng stats on it.. you can make a lv6 tool that would have worse in every way other than durability than a lv5 tool. So why not?

[Palad1n]

On 7/10/2020 at 1:42 PM, PoloPoPo said:

I like the fact that you are not able to craft tier 6 stuff yourself. Makes those things more special / unique and it gives you an incentive to loot even in the later game.

How are T6 items "special or unique" when they drop fairly frequently once you cross the lvl 40+ range? 

 

The only way to make them truly unique and special is to make them very rare, and add in another function into generating maps that lets you fine tune the drop rate % for each tier. 

 

Sure, you could lower the general loot drop rate from 100% down to 25% which would effect everything, but you shouldn't have to do this. From experience so far, Tier 6 items simply get added to the leveled loot lists and standard drops once you cross a certain threshold, which is again, very lazy design.

 

TFP could and should have set each tier as progressively more rare as you increased in level, which would give players incentive to actually craft instead of the same ole we have been given year after year after year. They talk about some sort of leveled loot balance, but I have yet to see any actual balance based on what I have seen so far in a19 on a vanilla server with loot set at the default 100%. 

 

I have found and sold many T6 guns (AK;s, Assault rifles, zap sticks, ratchets, etc) as though they are common loot, and shouldn't be. 

 

 

[Dracula]

3 hours ago, FA_Q2 said:

"not bothered to put points into crafting"

 

There are no crafting perks anymore.  Crafting comes with more competent use.  If you like shotguns it goes without saying that the perk increasing damage, knockdown and severing limbs is going to be pretty damn useful.  The fact that perk comes with crafting is just a bonus so that you can use shotguns of decent quality even if RNG Jesus is being an @%$*#!.

 

Your complaint has not been relevant since the intellect changes in A18.

 

There are still perks that govern what level items you can craft, even if they do other things as well; do I really have to spell out the minutia of it to you?

 

I'm obviously not going to put points into sledgehammers since I only ever used them to smash things open and, while I can craft a 5 shotgun I can't craft a 2 sledgehammer.

5 hours ago, RipClaw said:

No. Just no. It takes forever to find Q6 tools in every playthrough. Even if I do one level 5 quest after another and invest points in Daring Adventurer.

I don't want to lose what I found just because some players want to loot endlessly.

 

I hated this mechanic in Fallout and Oblivion and I would hate it here.  If it ever comes in an update, I will not play until I get it modded out.

[RipClaw]

6 hours ago, ElCabong said:

I'm getting around just fine with a blue set of military gear. I am not sure how much better off I would be with purple.

Q6 offers one modslot more. This can be used for example for more protection or to be quieter.

 

For example my Q5 steel boots. Currently they contain a Triple Pocket Mod for more inventory space, a Banded Armor Plating Mod for more protection and a Customized Fittings Mod for more mobility. In the additional modslot I could add an Impact Bracing Mod for reduced fall damage or Advanced Muffled Connectors to reduce the noise of the armor
 

I admit that these are just bonuses and that the armor also works with Q5 just fine but it gives you a bit more.

 

Where Q6 has a big impact are tools and weapons as each mod increases the damage. If I mine ore with a Q5 steel pickaxe and after 2 shots there is only a little HP left, but with the Q6 steel pickaxe 2 shots per block of ore is enough, it saves a lot of time. A Q6 Auger is also slightly faster than a Q5 Auger. It can also hold a mod for a larger tank so I don't have to interrupt so often.