Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[madmole]

2 hours ago, Pegasus said:

Faatal, I will send you cookies if you will fix the hatches and windows not letting in the rain and snow any more.  And you tell me where you are so I can send them. 

 

Or a bottle of rum.  Or both.

His poison is skittles I think.

[Khalagar]

5 hours ago, Daruma said:

To create a game that is obviously centered around building

 

The game is not centered around builders. There's basically two main groups of players, those that want to build and mine and play "Adult Minecraft", and those that want to play "Survival builder CoD Zombies" and run around shooting stuff.

 

The game is completely balanced around the second group, you literally can't even function as the first group anymore as of a few alpha ago. You can't build anything end game without materials you are unable to make yourself. So even the players that want to be a den mother and stay at home mining or building are required to go play CoD Zombies and run around shooting stuff to get magic uncraftable parts and springs.

 

The current approach is basically focused on the looter shooter types, with a bit of builder stuff on the side if it fits, but the actual balance is 100% on the run and gun players. You can function completely without being a builder or crafter at all and never doing more than making a wood block with a bed and storage chest on it and doing nothing but missions and run and gun 24/7. You can't do the same without cheat mode if you just plan to build and mine and stuff. There's not a single craftable only item that I know of that can't be found in loot or bought from a trader, but like 90% of the end game stuff is uncraftable without loot only items.

 

Not weighing in on the rest of your message or opinions, just saying, you are of the wrong mindset right off the bat, like a lot of people on this forum which is what causes the disgruntlement and friction. People keep asking for coffee pots and more paint options and builder items, because they are of the Adult Minecraft group of players, but they aren't the target market at the moment and don't realize that.

 

Might change in the future, might not, just depends on how the market statistics go. Builders very well might be in the minority, or just might not be the target market at all even if they are in the majority.

[Tmodloader]

5 hours ago, madmole said:

You will have to graduate to the next tier like now, but when you do, you might have access to lower tiers yet instead of it being mainly current tier with some random low ones.

Will lower tiers give lesser rewards than higher tiers generally?

1 hour ago, Toban said:

That's true. I see loads of players loved learn by doing, but I hated it. I much prefer building at night or mining, than crafting 7000 stone axes to get my skill up lol, but that's just me.

The current system is way more interesting in choices in my opinion. However having some increased range in the stats of tools when you craft them might be more fun. So instead of crafting 7000 stone axes to get a better one you would craft several at times if you get bad rolls. Maybe that's a bad idea though, just thinking it might end up being fun. You could find a top tier weapon with lower stats than a lower tier on rare occasions which will make finding that perfect weapon much more interesting than just finding quality 1-6 and how many mods you can fit. Only thing is higher tier stuff would have to be a noticeable step up on average in terms of stats so that RNG does weigh in favor of it being an upgrade. Right now I vaguely remember seeing some people argue that lower tier stuff may be better in particular with snipers.

[analog]

I have to say, my fav A19 update (I think it's new to A19) is the markers that come up when you hit the final loot on quests that show you the area's you might have missed when it's a clear quest, it might be a little "immersion invasive" so to say, but it's so much better than searching around or even worse, going into god mode to find what you missed, love it!!

[Adam the Waster]

25 minutes ago, madmole said:

His poison is skittles I think.

Sweet and sour?

 

that like my ketamine!

[Laynie]

53 minutes ago, madmole said:

His poison is skittles I think.

Maybe this would be a suitable offering? 

[Daruma]

1 hour ago, Khalagar said:

 

The game is not centered around builders. There's basically two main groups of players, those that want to build and mine and play "Adult Minecraft", and those that want to play "Survival builder CoD Zombies" and run around shooting stuff.

 

The game is completely balanced around the second group, you literally can't even function as the first group anymore as of a few alpha ago. You can't build anything end game without materials you are unable to make yourself. So even the players that want to be a den mother and stay at home mining or building are required to go play CoD Zombies and run around shooting stuff to get magic uncraftable parts and springs.

 

The current approach is basically focused on the looter shooter types, with a bit of builder stuff on the side if it fits, but the actual balance is 100% on the run and gun players. You can function completely without being a builder or crafter at all and never doing more than making a wood block with a bed and storage chest on it and doing nothing but missions and run and gun 24/7. You can't do the same without cheat mode if you just plan to build and mine and stuff. There's not a single craftable only item that I know of that can't be found in loot or bought from a trader, but like 90% of the end game stuff is uncraftable without loot only items.

 

Not weighing in on the rest of your message or opinions, just saying, you are of the wrong mindset right off the bat, like a lot of people on this forum which is what causes the disgruntlement and friction. People keep asking for coffee pots and more paint options and builder items, because they are of the Adult Minecraft group of players, but they aren't the target market at the moment and don't realize that.

 

Might change in the future, might not, just depends on how the market statistics go. Builders very well might be in the minority, or just might not be the target market at all even if they are in the majority.

A lot of the folks who funded the kickstarter seem to disagree with you. Google it. They're kinda all over the place. 

 

I  haven't been asking for polygon coffee makers. I ask devs to not make sweeping changes that break the reason I bought the game. And if that's where it's going, I'm fine with that. I'll move on. The issue is a lot of people (again, Google it) saw the 'bug' of zombies not being able to dig like a backhoe as a game mechanic - not a bug. And to those, it's sudden addition seems like the devs playing a bad joke - not fixing a bug. 

 

7 Days is a mediocre shooter. As more than one review points out and PC Gamer puts very well, "The combat feels like an early Elder Scrolls game. There's lots of clicking and flailing without ever feeling like you're making any contact with the thing you are flailing at." And I know that is an article from 2016, but seeing as the game is still in alpha and has been since 2013, I think it should have some bearing.

 

It's an amazing building/crafting survival game with the potential to be the best in the genre. It's just my opinion, but it should stick to it's strengths. 

[Adam the Waster]

41 minutes ago, Laynie said:

Maybe this would be a suitable offering? 

im getting type 100 diabetes just looking at this 

[Daruma]

More to my point, recent Reddit quote from someone returning to the game after the current patch:

 

"Are zombies still omniscient with PhDs in Civil Engineering and Physics?"

 

Edited to add a few more quoted criticisms:

 

"It used to be a fun crafting/survival game with zombies. Now it's a scramble-to-survive run-and-shoot against corpse-like meth heads."

 

"In what universe can an uncoordinated, brainless, reanimated corpse hone in on an underground dwelling survivor and dig through stone to find them?"

 

"Hmmm.. we could go through the portcullis on a headfirst charge, oorrr we COULD run around to the back left corner, hit the rampart by the mountain, knock it over and do a triple back flip off the side to gain entrance on the roof. THEN we could GPS to exactly 0.234455/-1.340499 and dig through the roof! That will land us in the hallway where we can attack that pesky human from behind!"

 

^ Lol. I feel like I'm reading Tumblr memes, but it's about craziness of the upgraded zombie AI. 😛

 

"I stopped playing as soon as zombies started digging. Zombies shouldn't be able to dig. And if I want to build an underground complex to avoid them I should be perfectly capable of that. Having the developer intentionally make them dig to counter player builds feels like the developer is intentionally playing the game against us by changing the rules."

 

And probably the most valid criticism:

 

"I've gotten the impression that the devs only added the ability to build because other games have it, but want to turn it into more of a run and shoot."

 

So... it's definitely not just me. And I wouldn't try to lock it down to 2% of the community either. 

 

[Laynie]

Just now, Adam the Waster said:

im getting type 100 diabetes just looking at this 

LMFAO 😅😂🤣 MM did say, he thought skittles were Faatal's poison, this looks kinda poisonous to me 🤷‍♀️🤔😛 I'm not sure I got the brief right anyway, this has kitkat on it 🙃

[Adam the Waster]

1 minute ago, Laynie said:

LMFAO 😅😂🤣 MM did say, he thought skittles were Faatal's poison, this looks kinda poisonous to me 🤷‍♀️🤔😛 I'm not sure I got the brief right anyway, this has kitkat on it 🙃

oh its poisonous alright 

[Laynie]

1 minute ago, Adam the Waster said:

oh its poisonous alright 

I ran out of reactions lol... so here is my reaction 😆☠️

[Junuxx]

4 hours ago, madmole said:

 coffee pots are 14000 triangles and players cannot be trusted with them

Why does the game need a 14000 tri coffee pot though?

[Matt 1977]

3 hours ago, Toban said:

That's true. I see loads of players loved learn by doing, but I hated it. I much prefer building at night or mining, than crafting 7000 stone axes to get my skill up lol, but that's just me.

Agree. Was stupid tbh. Max out everything by day 2. That was a challenge..... not. Then muppets got up in arms about it, even added back into some mods. So riveting gameplay.

[AtomicUs5000]

25 minutes ago, Junuxx said:

Why does the game need a 14000 tri coffee pot though?

How else do you prevent adding in more useful stuff?

[Khalagar]

48 minutes ago, Junuxx said:

Why does the game need a 14000 tri coffee pot though?

 

Nothing wrong with better graphics, his point is just that there is a "budget" to running games. The developers very carefully place objects and can make good use of a really "expensive" graphical item to make PoI look better etc. Players wouldn't, you would get the type of douche player that SPAMS hundreds of coffee pots in their underground base just to crash the server on any public server, so it's best to just not let players have that option. If you are playing on your own server, you can just open the cheat menu and add the coffee pot to your inventory, the devs don't care if you crash your own server

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Daruma said:

it's sudden addition seems like the devs playing a bad joke - not fixing a bug. 

Except it wasn’t a sudden addition. Digging zombies was in the game from the start. It was gone for a few alphas and then returned.  Digging zombies have been in more alphas since Kickstarter than they haven’t been. 
 

Google it!

[bloodmoth13]

16 hours ago, Gazz said:

You guys do realise that this is getting into the territory of weird and hard to enforce rules, right?

There is no need for a solution because there is no problem.

The problem is that players cannot use the hi res models.

It might not be your problem because you might not care, but its a problem some players have, and they are entitled to think of it as a problem as much as you are entitled to not care.

 

Its not a big issue for me, im not invested in it personally, but i like to think of possible solutions to problems, so i presented him with a possible solution. The solution i offered would allow players access to the hi res items while restricting them from bogging down servers by building a 50x50 base from nothing but hi res bookshelves. Thats probably what a compromise for that problem will have to look like outside of everyone just getting better hardware.

I dont think the rule would be that hard to enforce, land claims cant overlap, we are restricted to one per game atm, and replacing them with junk if the land claim is removed means that the whole base wont collapse if they were being used to support the base.

 

If you decide you want to give players access to hi res items, then consider this as an option. If not, then dont worry about it. 

[Daruma]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

Except it wasn’t a sudden addition. Digging zombies was in the game from the start. It was gone for a few alphas and then returned.  Digging zombies have been in more alphas since Kickstarter than they haven’t been. 
 

Google it!

Lol. How does that invalidate any of the other criticisms in that post?

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Daruma said:

So... it's definitely not just me. And I wouldn't try to lock it down to 2% of the community either. 

Doesn’t matter what the percentage is. It’s just a big group of people who have the wrong idea of what the game is and thought that the unfinished state was representative of the game.

 

Turn zombies off and now the game is a fun building game where your creations are safe. 

1 minute ago, Daruma said:

Lol. How does that invalidate any of the other criticisms in that post?

I wasn’t trying to invalidate any criticism. I was trying to correct your inaccurate representation of why zombies dig in the game today. I thought I was very straightforward about that. 
 

The other criticisms are valid in that they surely represent disappointments with the game. They also show a lack of understanding about what type of game this was going to be. 

[Daruma]

17 minutes ago, Roland said:

Doesn’t matter what the percentage is. It’s just a big group of people who have the wrong idea of what the game is and thought that the unfinished state was representative of the game.

 

Turn zombies off and now the game is a fun building game where your creations are safe. 

Lol. News flash...its still unfinished. 😛 And people have that idea because that's how the game was billed. And yeah - the percentage of users with that mindset does kind of matter.  

 

And I don't want to turn the zombies off. That skates around the entire point. Myself and a lot of other people enjoyed building bases to ride out hordes. Expanding those bases. Tunneling from those bases to other resources rich areas to avoid the onslaught. That's what was fun for us. Don't build the support structure correctly? Cave in and you lose all your hard work. 

 

There have been additions and removals from the game seemingly to counter specific gameplay styles. Styles that were valid.  That has the effect of alienating people with those gameplay styles. That's literally all I'm saying. And I'm not a 2% minority. 

 

Hey, at least on console it can't get better.. but it won't get any worse. 😛

[katarynna]

9 minutes ago, Daruma said:

There have been additions and removals from the game seemingly to counter specific gameplay styles. Styles that were valid.

Styles that you feel are valid are not necessarily styles that tfp feel are valid.

 

They did not feel that 100% safety, that could be achieved in the first 10 minutes of the game btw, was valid. They want there to be threats no matter where you are or what you are doing. So while underground bases are still valid, they are not guaranteed 100% safe.

 

13 minutes ago, Daruma said:

There have been additions and removals from the game seemingly to counter specific gameplay styles.

You see it as the developers trying to defeat the players. I think they are just trying to move the game forward towards their final vision, which includes changing things that guarantee safety. They don't want the game to have "safe spaces". If you need one to enjoy the game, mods or quitting are your answers.

[Daruma]

24 minutes ago, Roland said:

Doesn’t matter what the percentage is. It’s just a big group of people who have the wrong idea of what the game is and thought that the unfinished state was representative of the game.

 

Turn zombies off and now the game is a fun building game where your creations are safe. 

I wasn’t trying to invalidate any criticism. I was trying to correct your inaccurate representation of why zombies dig in the game today. I thought I was very straightforward about that. 
 

The other criticisms are valid in that they surely represent disappointments with the game. They also show a lack of understanding about what type of game this was going to be. 

Then we have to disagree on that last point. The description sounded to me like it was meant to be a zombie survival building game. The dev even seemed to agree with that description in my earlier post. What it has turned into is a run and gun shooter with some (really unnecessarily) building aspects. 

2 minutes ago, katarynna said:

Styles that you feel are valid are not necessarily styles that tfp feel are valid.

 

They did not feel that 100% safety, that could be achieved in the first 10 minutes of the game btw, was valid. They want there to be threats no matter where you are or what you are doing. So while underground bases are still valid, they are not guaranteed 100% safe.

 

You see it as the developers trying to defeat the players. I think they are just trying to move the game forward towards their final vision, which includes changing things that guarantee safety. They don't want the game to have "safe spaces". If you need one to enjoy the game, mods or quitting are your answers.

It's not that they're not guaranteed 100% safe - they're completely untenable at this point. 

 

And what you said basically echoed my criticisms about dictating play styles. 

[katarynna]

Many, many people manage to build and defend their buildings just fine.

 

And no, what I said was they are and have been working towards their vision of the game. It is not a matter of dictating playstyles. It is a matter of finishing the game according to their vision, which includes players having threats to deal with everywhere they are. It is certainly possible that what they have in mind for the release version of the game will not be something you enjoy. That doesn't mean they are targeting you and your playstyle. They are building the game they have had in mind all along.

[Daruma]

9 minutes ago, katarynna said:

I think they are just trying to move the game forward towards their final vision, which includes changing things that guarantee safety. They don't want the game to have "safe spaces". If you need one to enjoy the game, mods or quitting are your answers.

^ So yeah.. strategically creating core mechanic modifications that actively defeat certain play styles. Working against the player. 😛