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madmole

Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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5 minutes ago, madmole said:

Why did to bedrock when the ore is right where you are?

Harvesting stone down at bedrock is woefully inefficient. Any ore veins you encounter and that you wish to excavate, you're going to have to mine upwards, which is a royal pain in the rear end. Strip mining, primarily for stone, at levels +30 - +35 is much more attractive, since you're almost guaranteed to not breach the surface while any ore pockets you come across, you might be in the middle or perhaps even the very top of.

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4 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

LOL  If I was in a castle and the barbarians were trying to beat down the door I'd surely be trying to shore up that door in the middle of the fight.  

Well the other part I guess is I don't really have to. The base is big enough and designed so that I can just kite them to each room but I got scared, moment of lost faith in my build. Also the other windows were not converted to have the ramp/bars/trap door setup so its harder to shoot them but I'm changing it today now that I completed the wall all the way around the base. Then Phase one is done. Time to add the electrical goodies.

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14 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

LOL  If I was in a castle and the barbarians were trying to beat down the door I'd surely be trying to shore up that door in the middle of the fight.  

Yeah repair is a little slow and you could have blocks all over the place getting broken so I don't think it is cheesy repairing it, you can't kill zombies while you do it, so some blocks somewhere are getting DPS'd.

13 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I'm a base builder but I never ever felt the need to get some special block from creative menue. I never add pictures, refrigerators, kitchen cupboards or stoves in my bases. In other words I am building 99% for functionality and the 1% visual embellishment is done with blocks I can simply craft. So when Madmole mentioned 2% vanity crafters I was sure to be in the 98% group.

 

Most of those vanity items you mention can be done already without CM. Fridges can be painted, the coolers are craftable, cupboards, check. Stoves you can paint a box to look like one. That is why I build a lot of different bases, to test the limits of it and when I have to CM I think about it, and decide if that belongs in the main game or not... usually the answer is no.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Daruma said:

Thanks for the polite response. I honestly expected less cordiality. 

 

I love the game. As does my wife. When we were looking for a co-op survival game that checked all the boxes, there was 7 Days. Literally nothing else had everything we wanted in that genre. 

 

But make no mistake - the big draw for us (and I have to assume more than 2% of other users) was building an effective base to "beat the hord", so to speak. It really seems like some of the updates I've seen on the PC end were implemented specifically to thwart that style of play. I can see and understand the flip-side of that too... just think it's possible to cater to both play styles at once. 

 

Again.. love the game. 

You really should try playing the game on PC before you make a judgement call.  

 

With each new alpha and revision there are changes to building.  But building is by no means limited.  Some people just want access to more blocks than are available in the base game play and are only available in the creative menu.

 

You can build an incredible base using only the blocks available in vanilla.  There has been nothing implemented to thwart building a base to "beat the horde".  There has been nothing implemented to thwart building at all.

 

Some people are hacked off because there not recipes in the vanilla game for every possible block combination and decoration known to man.  The devs have stated that they cannot add those recipes right now because 1) it would take away from developing key features of the game and 2) because having that many recipes in the crafting menu would cause significant lag.

 

Has everyone forgotten the crafting menu lag from around a16?  Have you forgotten the approximately 857 billion posts from hacked off players because every time they opened their forge menu their game crashed or stuttered?  

 

I would expect that most people, me included, can build a perfectly nice base using the blocks available in the vanilla game.

 

If, for whatever reason, you, personally, need a coffee pot ... then bring it in through creative or mod it in or get one of the approximately billion beautiful mods that are out there for decoration.

 

Please don't judge the game progress based on comments made by the vocal few when you haven't tried the game out for yourself.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

Well the other part I guess is I don't really have to. The base is big enough and designed so that I can just kite them to each room but I got scared, moment of lost faith in my build. Also the other windows were not converted to have the ramp/bars/trap door setup so its harder to shoot them but I'm changing it today now that I completed the wall all the way around the base. Then Phase one is done. Time to add the electrical goodies.

Which is why I don't care for dead is dead, I like my leeroy Jenkins moments :)

6 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Harvesting stone down at bedrock is woefully inefficient. Any ore veins you encounter and that you wish to excavate, you're going to have to mine upwards, which is a royal pain in the rear end. Strip mining, primarily for stone, at levels +30 - +35 is much more attractive, since you're almost guaranteed to not breach the surface while any ore pockets you come across, you might be in the middle or perhaps even the very top of.

You lost me at mining stone. Who the @%$*#! mines stone? Why?

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2 minutes ago, madmole said:

You lost me at mining stone. Who the @%$*#! mines stone? Why?

Take a look at my builds and you'll understand why. I've got to have some method of feeding my 4+ forges dedicated to stone around the clock. And before you suggest anything, what works for me works for me, alright? :)

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3 minutes ago, madmole said:

You lost me at mining stone. Who the @%$*#! mines stone? Why?

Ever needed 100.000 Concrete mix  for a building ? i guess not....but some of us do ;) 

ull never find that much in pois in a short time.

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19 minutes ago, madmole said:

Yes a horrible bug we lived with for years that was thankfully squashed. It is unfortunate some builder assumed the design was that underground was safe, it was never intended to be, it was just a bug that cropped up and didn't get fixed.

 

There shouldn't be any easy way to survive the hordes, nor anything guaranteed. There should be incentive to experiement and try things, and most things should have some form of success, but no easy way to be invincible. Just turn off horde night if that is what you want to do.

 

Okay ... I do have a question though ... and I've not seen an answer to it.

 

Why does being dead give these zombies superhuman senses?

 

How is it possible that a zombie can sense me when I am sitting at bedrock under a mountain?  It can somehow hear me/smell me/sense me through 3,000 feet of dirt and rock.

 

By the same token, I can't figure out how rain can get through a vault hatch either, and sunlight get through that same 3,000 feet of dirt and rock.

 

But seriously, how do the zombies sense you that far underground?  I mean a tried and true method of zombie avoidance in zombie films is to find someplace to hide and stay really really still.

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1 hour ago, Daruma said:

Thanks for the polite response. I honestly expected less cordiality. 

 

I love the game. As does my wife. When we were looking for a co-op survival game that checked all the boxes, there was 7 Days. Literally nothing else had everything we wanted in that genre. 

 

But make no mistake - the big draw for us (and I have to assume more than 2% of other users) was building an effective base to "beat the hord", so to speak. It really seems like some of the updates I've seen on the PC end were implemented specifically to thwart that style of play. I can see and understand the flip-side of that too... just think it's possible to cater to both play styles at once. 

 

Again.. love the game. 

I bit of kind advice. If you like building, this is the game for you. There is many ways to make your base look awesome. I build all the time and mainly for the look. I am a vanity builder and I have no problem making my base look good. If you see something you want and you cannot craft it in the normal menu, take note of a similar item's resource cost and throw it on the floor then put one in from the cm.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, madmole said:

Which is why I don't care for dead is dead, I like my leeroy Jenkins moments :)

I'll get those in eventually, the guys on twitch have been talking about doing an RP pvp server eventually and I'll probably want to go check that out, it won't be permadeath or insane nightmare for that matter, I wish. If I keep playing at this level though that will be a walk in the park.

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)

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29 minutes ago, madmole said:

Why did to bedrock when the ore is right where you are?

 

Well I start the mine early and if I go at a 45 degree angle it is only 1 block in my floor to go down and I can easily walk up and down the ramp, and can see with just a torch moved every so often.  Then hardly any of the actual mine is under my base, but is protected by it. 

 

I am usually just after stone so I just keep going down and end up hitting bedrock. 

 

After that I will start mining in straight lines at bedrock and if the game lasts long enough they will become underground tunnels across the map to other bases, heh. 

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3 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Take a look at my builds and you'll understand why. I've got to have some method of feeding my 4+ forges dedicated to stone around the clock. And before you suggest anything, what works for me works for me, alright? :)

I'm not saying you are doing it wrong, you can play how you want. I got annoyed grinding stone to sand, and then smelting it to cement, and chucking all the wood in the furnaces, etc etc etc. So I changed how I do it, here it is:

I do dig quests and that gets me a surplus of clay. (for a while at least)
I mine coal and nitrate ASAP every night, and that gives me a surplus of stone.
I shovel up the cement mix, and the blue tarps which gives me all the cement and cobblestone rocks I need.

I do mine the rock pallets at POIs, because its faster tahn killing a zombie for about the same XP and I get what seems like a lot of stones for it compared to stone mining, but I could be wrong. I think it is more because XP is given per quantity, so that tells me that one pile has more harvest than a regular stone block does.

I shovel sand in the desert or at const POIS, because grinding stone to sand takes too long and is a waste of stone.

 

That said, if you are semi patient you don't need to melt stone to cement and you don't need to mine stone once you stop smelting cement you end up having plenty. I have my 7x7x however tall it is solid r concrete with 5000 cement to spare by day 35, on normal day length.

 

7 minutes ago, manni44 said:

Ever needed 100.000 Concrete mix  for a building ? i guess not....but some of us do ;) 

ull never find that much in pois in a short time.

No I don't need 100k because I'm not burning it up in forges and grinding sand. I'll buy it from the trader if I'm short of mats, 200,000 dukes in my safe isn't helping me.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, madmole said:

That said, if you are semi patient you don't need to melt stone to cement and you don't need to mine stone once you stop smelting cement you end up having plenty. I have my 7x7x however tall it is solid r concrete with 5000 cement to spare by day 35, on normal day length.

 

 

Buwhahahahaha ... 7 x 7 ...  my base has closets bigger than 7x7 ... :D

 

You play a zombie game with some building.  I play a building game with inconvenient zombies.   Speaking of which, that new crawling one gives me nightmares.  You guys need therapy....  and drugs.  I wish I'd recorded my reaction the first time I saw one.  You guys would laugh til you peed your pants.

Edited by Pegasus (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, madmole said:

I'm not saying you are doing it wrong, you can play how you want. I got annoyed grinding stone to sand, and then smelting it to cement, and chucking all the wood in the furnaces, etc etc etc. So I changed how I do it, here it is:

I do dig quests and that gets me a surplus of clay. (for a while at least)
I mine coal and nitrate ASAP every night, and that gives me a surplus of stone.
I shovel up the cement mix, and the blue tarps which gives me all the cement and cobblestone rocks I need.

I do mine the rock pallets at POIs, because its faster tahn killing a zombie for about the same XP and I get what seems like a lot of stones for it compared to stone mining, but I could be wrong. I think it is more because XP is given per quantity, so that tells me that one pile has more harvest than a regular stone block does.

I shovel sand in the desert or at const POIS, because grinding stone to sand takes too long and is a waste of stone.

 

That said, if you are semi patient you don't need to melt stone to cement and you don't need to mine stone once you stop smelting cement you end up having plenty. I have my 7x7x however tall it is solid r concrete with 5000 cement to spare by day 35, on normal day length.

 

Hey, to each their own, right? :)

 

Now unless I'm next to a desert, I can't be bothered to drive all the way there and back every 2 days; instead, I just turn a third of my stone into sand after every mining expedition.

 

Unless it's been changed, the stone pallets actually reward you with LESS stone than conventional stone blocks after a certain point down the Mother Lode tree. For XP purposes though, yeah, it's quite attractive, but by that point in the game I'm never carrying stone on me when I'm raiding POI's anyway, so I just leave them behind. I have enough frowny moments of tossing out glass every time I pick it up as it is. ;)

 

I suppose one reason for my method is I often bite off more than I can chew. By day 21 I already have the foundation and much of the walls in place that I would otherwise realistically have constructed by day 35+

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1 hour ago, madmole said:

We're alienating who exactly? The game has a higher review score than it has in years and sales are better than ever. Seems like we are on track if you ask me. We focused on building and crafting for years, and finally give guns a little love and not even 10% of the effort that went into building and somehow you view that as abandoning the builders? We still have great things to come to building. I like to build so its not likely we'll leave building as is, we have some great ideas to improve it, it is just a matter of somehow squeezing it on the roadmap, then bandits and other stuff gets pushed back, further, again and again. Eventually we have to save some @%$*#! for the sequel, we can't stay in alpha forever and someone is going to feel like they got screwed.

 

As a long time player and builder I just wanted to comment on the number one issue some of us have and this is the inability to lock down the map. Yes I know why it has to happen but eventually you guys will have to just say enough is enough and leave the map elements in place and move on to BETA. Well over a year ago you guys said that the map was locked and nothing new would be added and yet we still have mandatory map wipes. Now before you get all defensive, LOL, let me say that I'm glad you re-opened the map because you've done some great things. I guess, as a builder, it's frustrating to see hundreds of hours of work wiped every few months and yes I know that no one is forcing us to move on to a fresh alpha. I also know that the wipes do help keep the game fresh but you never know when the next patch will be out that requires a wipe. It just would be nice to be able to move from alpha to alpha to beta and while elements of the game may change, the map would be stable and you could keep your world intanct.

 

So why am I bringing this up now? Well you mention that you can't stay in alpha forever and talk about a sequel. I'm all for that! Lock down this mother, move to beta, polish up the game, squash the bugs and start working on the sequel! Turn this over to the modders who will have a finished, complete game to mod while you work on the next game. I can only imagine some of the things you have planned for an entirely new game planned with everything you have learned over these past few years. A game designed for faster computers, more RAM, better GPU's and wicked AI.

 

Where do I send my money? :)

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8 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

 

Okay ... I do have a question though ... and I've not seen an answer to it.

 

Why does being dead give these zombies superhuman senses?

 

How is it possible that a zombie can sense me when I am sitting at bedrock under a mountain?  It can somehow hear me/smell me/sense me through 3,000 feet of dirt and rock.

 

By the same token, I can't figure out how rain can get through a vault hatch either, and sunlight get through that same 3,000 feet of dirt and rock.

 

But seriously, how do the zombies sense you that far underground?  I mean a tried and true method of zombie avoidance in zombie films is to find someplace to hide and stay really really still.

In the lore it is something like "on the 7th day on the blood moon the zombies have heightened senses and can find you anywhere".

The simple answer it is because the game is boring if you are safe. So our main design goal is to not ever have the player be 100% safe, without a boat load of work anyway. Obviously 20 meters of steel in every direction and you could AFK several hordes and laugh about it, if that is what you call fun.

Undead cannot be explained by science, so their abilities don't need explained, it just is.

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8 minutes ago, madmole said:

No I don't need 100k because I'm not burning it up in forges and grinding sand. I'll buy it from the trader if I'm short of mats, 200,000 dukes in my safe isn't helping me.

No, but having a million plus dukes in stock is mighty satisfying. Even then, I'm rather pinchy with my spendings.

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13 minutes ago, Toban said:

I bit of kind advice. If you like building, this is the game for you. There is many ways to make your base look awesome. I build all the time and mainly for the look. I am a vanity builder and I have no problem making my base look good. If you see something you want and you cannot craft it in the normal menu, take note of a similar item's resource cost and throw it on the floor then put one in from the cm.

I'm a vanity builder too on some builds. I was talking about extreme vanity, like every block made available cannot be done for performance reasons, coffee pots are 14000 triangles and players cannot be trusted with them :)

But hey install a mod and have at it, or use the cm. We might be able to add more down the road, we'll see.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, madmole said:

In the lore it is something like "on the 7th day on the blood moon the zombies have heightened senses and can find you anywhere".

The simple answer it is because the game is boring if you are safe. So our main design goal is to not ever have the player be 100% safe, without a boat load of work anyway. Obviously 20 meters of steel in every direction and you could AFK several hordes and laugh about it, if that is what you call fun.

Undead cannot be explained by science, so their abilities don't need explained, it just is.

Okay, that makes sense.  Which also explains why on the blood moon they go all weird and nutso.

 

It just always seemed weird to me that they could find me no matter where I hid.  

 

Is the lore part of what is being worked on with the backstory campaign y'all are working on?  I can't wait for that to come out.

 

But can y'all maybe work on making it so hatches and windows don't let in the rain and snow?  I mean I can understand a regular window maybe leaking a bit ... but a steel vault hatch?  Or bullet proof glass?

Edited by Pegasus (see edit history)

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6 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

Buwhahahahaha ... 7 x 7 ...  my base has closets bigger than 7x7 ... :D

 

You play a zombie game with some building.  I play a building game with inconvenient zombies.   Speaking of which, that new crawling one gives me nightmares.  You guys need therapy....  and drugs.  I wish I'd recorded my reaction the first time I saw one.  You guys would laugh til you peed your pants.

That is a great way to see it. I do both btw, my castle is huge, but I have a 7x7 down the road. Just saying :) Most builds get broke and I have to start over so I don't get the time to build a proper beast base.

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Just now, madmole said:

That is a great way to see it. I do both btw, my castle is huge, but I have a 7x7 down the road. Just saying :) Most builds get broke and I have to start over so I don't get the time to build a proper beast base.

 

I usually play multiplayer, so we usually have a 'horde' base somewhere ... and I build my base for my tastes.  But I also give it general defenses for regular zombies, not for horde nights because I don't spend horde nights at home because it makes me sad when they break the pretties.  

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3 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

Okay, that makes sense.  Which also explains why on the blood moon they go all weird and nutso.

 

It just always seemed weird to me that they could find me no matter where I hid.  

 

Is the lore part of what is being worked on with the backstory campaign y'all are working on?  I can't wait for that to come out.

 

But can y'all maybe work on making it so hatches and windows don't let in the rain and snow?  I mean I can understand a regular window maybe leaking a bit ... but a steel vault hatch?  

That is faatal territory. Probably.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, madmole said:

That is faatal territory. Probably.

Faatal, I will send you cookies if you will fix the hatches and windows not letting in the rain and snow any more.  And you tell me where you are so I can send them.  :)

 

Or a bottle of rum.  Or both.

Edited by Pegasus (see edit history)
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37 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

Some people are hacked off because there not recipes in the vanilla game for every possible block combination and decoration known to man.  The devs have stated that they cannot add those recipes right now because 1) it would take away from developing key features of the game and 2) because having that many recipes in the crafting menu would cause significant lag.

 

Has everyone forgotten the crafting menu lag from around a16?  Have you forgotten the approximately 857 billion posts from hacked off players because every time they opened their forge menu their game crashed or stuttered? 

What some people like to gloss over is that while the number of recipes has gone down, the number of craftable blocks has gone up more than ever.

There are a bunch of variant blocks that fold out into a lot of things.

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