Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[andrough]

Isn't a zombie slipping through a closed door the very definition of gamebreaking?

 

Naaaaaah, he's on day 77! Can't get eleven weeks into a broken game. They appear to only clip through in big pile ups on the other side and seems like it will take a ton of tweaks to collision to fix. Also, I am biased because if they ever get that close to my panic room, then my plans and strats feel more broken to me than a little slip-through here and there.

[Bubo]

Haha that was awesome MM ..and those spiders!

[Dunkurtin]

We've balanced XP for farming, upgrading, harvesting and killing.

 

 

That's good, but I can still learn to build by just killing things, or get better at shooting by hitting rocks. I just have a personal preference for having to worry about the type of task that im doing now affecting the tasks I can do in the future. Rather than only having to worry about making sure im doing anything that gives XP. I mean sure, I could try and self enforce only leveling perks based on what I've done recently, but it's not quite the same. I liked how you had to plan ahead if you wanted to unlock a cetain ability before. With all the other features rebalanced and added since A17 launched, the game would be so much more intense if I also still had to balance needing to work on my building skills so i can have steel for the next horde night, but also wanting to improve my shooting so needing to go out hunting for things to kill, while hitting specific POI for a tool upgarde, AND managing the travel time in between, potentially having to push back one of my targets for the following horde night. Rather than just needing to hit as many POI as I can for 6 days so that on the final one I can upgrade to steel and have my better combat skills. It's just less engaging for me.

 

And yeah, I get that you aren't open to bringing back LBD, this isn't an attempt to convince you. Just trying to communicate clearly why myself, and others like me, likely won't be returning to play the game as much as we did in the past any time soon. Likely not until full release and then it will be mods that keep us playing long term.

[RestInPieces]

Got to confirm - is it possible to outrun zombies in nightmare speed now?

[madmole]

"Oh ♥♥♥♥!" Got a good laugh there. I think I noticed some difference in ai- little bit more spread out when they didn't have a clear path to you. I like that they don't tear straight through blocks unless grouped now. The rag doll stuff looks good, too. And I know they shouldn't be able to clip through the door when they pile up, but not exactly game-breaking and it sure does add some excitement!

 

That was a treat. Was enjoying some kitboga and I had to click that instantly.

 

I think I know what it was, zombies can push ones who get in their way and I think some popped through the collider of the door.

[Aldranon]

Na, that was truly a fun time. I just double check my finger is going on W not E now lol.

 

Did you have a bow equipped while flying?

 

Speaking of hoard night, how does BM feel compared to A17?

[ecv]

Naaaaaah, he's on day 77! Can't get eleven weeks into a broken game. They appear to only clip through in big pile ups on the other side and seems like it will take a ton of tweaks to collision to fix. Also, I am biased because if they ever get that close to my panic room, then my plans and strats feel more broken to me than a little slip-through here and there.

 

If I play chess for seven hours and all of a sudden a pawn can move like a tower, then it's still game breaking, even though you have played for hours and can still play from there on.

 

If the main objective is to keep zombies out of your base and kill them, and they can move through walls/doors, then that's gamebreaking for me.

 

Gamebreaking doesn't mean you can't play, it means the game's objectives get busted.

 

If it wouldn't be removed eventually, would that be fine to you? Perhaps having them come in out of sight, surprising you from behind in a locked room?

[Dunkurtin]

Naaaaaah, he's on day 77! Can't get eleven weeks into a broken game. They appear to only clip through in big pile ups on the other side and seems like it will take a ton of tweaks to collision to fix. Also, I am biased because if they ever get that close to my panic room, then my plans and strats feel more broken to me than a little slip-through here and there.

 

Maybe I need to rewatch it, but it seemed to me they also only really clipped through when the door had only just been closed. So it was also a timing/transition thing and not just going through solid objects.

[ecv]

Did you have a bow equipped while flying?

 

Speaking of hoard night, how does BM feel compared to A17?

 

It stopped being a hoard night a few alphas ago. Now it's pure horde night ;')

 

there's a video of one, only one page back, that should convey all the feelings!

[madmole]

Got to confirm - is it possible to outrun zombies in nightmare speed now?

 

No idea, I don't run, I'm a tank build. I'll shoot some footage clearing POIs, I do it 90% with fists.

[madmole]

Did you have a bow equipped while flying?

 

Speaking of hoard night, how does BM feel compared to A17?

 

Check out that video I just shot and tell me. I didn't like how horde night was over so fast if you had 16+ alive so I had gazz add more total counts to the later stages. As you can see it lasted all night I'll need to farm more ammo for sure and try to get a better m60.

[madmole]

If I play chess for seven hours and all of a sudden a pawn can move like a tower, then it's still game breaking, even though you have played for hours and can still play from there on.

 

If the main objective is to keep zombies out of your base and kill them, and they can move through walls/doors, then that's gamebreaking for me.

 

Gamebreaking doesn't mean you can't play, it means the game's objectives get busted.

 

If it wouldn't be removed eventually, would that be fine to you? Perhaps having them come in out of sight, surprising you from behind in a locked room?

 

To be fair, the door collider isn't ON until the door is completely shut, so I think a couple of those were legit, a few got pushed through. Nothing Faatal can't fix and that is why its not release yet, we're still finding little things like that.

[andrough]

If I play chess for seven hours and all of a sudden a pawn can move like a tower, then it's still game breaking, even though you have played for hours and can still play from there on.

 

If the main objective is to keep zombies out of your base and kill them, and they can move through walls/doors, then that's gamebreaking for me.

 

Gamebreaking doesn't mean you can't play, it means the game's objectives get busted.

 

If it wouldn't be removed eventually, would that be fine to you? Perhaps having them come in out of sight, surprising you from behind in a locked room?

 

It would be disappointing to me, but it wouldn't break the game for me. They weren't randomly clipping through nor were they teleporting through random spots that didn't make any sense. They just got pushed through from all the traffic in that one spot. It didn't happen to any blocks other than the door, which is a different hit box than full block walls. He was also opening and closing it quite a bit, allowing them to pile up in different ways than they presumably could against a flat wall.

 

I completely agree with you it's not a good look, but it's not that the rules were thrown out the window in that scenario. You and I clearly have a different definition of game-breaking. A sporadic glitch in odd scenarios wouldn't break the game for me, even if it killed me a few times. ♥♥♥♥ happens and nothing's perfect- both in life and especially in complicated programs.

 

Edit: and who says chess can't use a little zazzing up? Why are those towers moving anyways? Thought they were they rookies. And what's with bishops and their slant? They accusing religious officials of not being straightforward? And why are these knights on steeplechase horses? Definitely a game that could benefit from teleporting zombies and guns.

/remove tongue from cheek

[archergod]

Wow, I have a treat for you guys.... I recorded day 77 and it was super intense! Sorry no behemoth spawned, but I promise you some crazy action. I will need to farm 2k rounds for the next horde and have another m60 on my belt Uploading now.

 

Here you go:

 

This is seen as cruelty at your end. I mean if game is that good to give that awesome horde night, then why we cannot have it's experimental yet !!!

 

We want Justice for us !!!

 

Okay, I notice that radiated zed are killed in quick succession like normal zed is that you have RAD remover installed or because your firing rate is so high that they don't get healed up? I really like your "open to expand" packaging of bullets, Love that part. But as you can see you need 1000 bullets in single night, and though you say you guys increase bullets been found in game, I am hoping you have it so we can find 1000s for just one night and atleast 1000s for complete week, that is about 2K bullet been found in a week rather easily. It was not that easy before.

[Aldranon]

Check out that video I just shot and tell me. I didn't like how horde night was over so fast if you had 16+ alive so I had gazz add more total counts to the later stages. As you can see it lasted all night I'll need to farm more ammo for sure and try to get a better m60.

 

OMG! That was intense! That last stand part could have been an episode of some zombie flick. WOW.

I would put bars by the door to shoot from and have a series of ever safer, safe rooms!

 

 

I am so pumped for A18! I have no idea what in the HELL I will really do when Day 77 hits! My God Sir, you have done well!!

[Aldranon]

My team at Al's Marina just ran some tests on my base defense plan. They said everything went as do all my other plans (which is good, right?).

 

Ah! Here is the live feed on my teams Day 77 horde night...

 

Edit: ... Damn screamers... Its always the screams that do me in...

[Roland]

That's good, but I can still learn to build by just killing things, or get better at shooting by hitting rocks. I just have a personal preference for having to worry about the type of task that im doing now affecting the tasks I can do in the future. Rather than only having to worry about making sure im doing anything that gives XP. I mean sure, I could try and self enforce only leveling perks based on what I've done recently, but it's not quite the same. I liked how you had to plan ahead if you wanted to unlock a cetain ability before. With all the other features rebalanced and added since A17 launched, the game would be so much more intense if I also still had to balance needing to work on my building skills so i can have steel for the next horde night, but also wanting to improve my shooting so needing to go out hunting for things to kill, while hitting specific POI for a tool upgarde, AND managing the travel time in between, potentially having to push back one of my targets for the following horde night. Rather than just needing to hit as many POI as I can for 6 days so that on the final one I can upgrade to steel and have my better combat skills. It's just less engaging for me.

 

And yeah, I get that you aren't open to bringing back LBD, this isn't an attempt to convince you. Just trying to communicate clearly why myself, and others like me, likely won't be returning to play the game as much as we did in the past any time soon. Likely not until full release and then it will be mods that keep us playing long term.

 

The game had no LBD for 13 alphas and then did for about three and now doesn’t again. It was a blip in the development of the game. You probably started playing with LBD already implemented and so thought it was the core of the game. But, honestly, I had 1000 hours in this game before there was ANY xp at all of any kind flavor or style as did many others. I don’t say this to brag about being an old timer, I say it to emphasize that I don’t believe that player skill progression is that critical or core to the game. I got tons of enjoyment without any system at all—LBD or otherwise.

 

Xp and player ability progression is fun and a nice part of the game but it is in no way the whole game and if your idea of the game completely hinges on how xp is obtained and then how it is distributed then this probably isn’t the game you thought it was.

 

They could remove all xp and perks and skills and the game would still be fully playable and enjoyable. Many view Alpha 10 as one of the greatest versions of the game and there is zero xp or skill gaining in that version. (Other than getting more pronounced at shaking and trembling by traveling 25k+ out from the center...)

 

Of course, you like to have fun the way you do and you can’t help it if you feel that xp and how it is implemented is the core of this game and the whole reason for playing. I hope there will be a mod that gives it the emphasis and format you are desiring.

[madmole]

This is seen as cruelty at your end. I mean if game is that good to give that awesome horde night, then why we cannot have it's experimental yet !!!

 

We want Justice for us !!!

 

Okay, I notice that radiated zed are killed in quick succession like normal zed is that you have RAD remover installed or because your firing rate is so high that they don't get healed up? I really like your "open to expand" packaging of bullets, Love that part. But as you can see you need 1000 bullets in single night, and though you say you guys increase bullets been found in game, I am hoping you have it so we can find 1000s for just one night and atleast 1000s for complete week, that is about 2K bullet been found in a week rather easily. It was not that easy before.

 

We want a smooth launch, there are still memory leaks after and hour it gets horrible FPS we need to find, saw some zeds popping through doors, plus experimental is for the bugs we can't find, no point in releasing it when we have a bunch of bugs we know about and need fixed, be patient it will be worth the wait.

[madmole]

OMG! That was intense! That last stand part could have been an episode of some zombie flick. WOW.

I would put bars by the door to shoot from and have a series of ever safer, safe rooms!

 

 

I am so pumped for A18! I have no idea what in the HELL I will really do when Day 77 hits! My God Sir, you have done well!!

 

Thanks! Yeah they never got even close to me before, I just had Gazz turn up how many guys total spawn so before I'd mow em down and be collecting loot by midnight or one, I wanted zeds all night plus I turned up block damage on ferals so this was my first test with those settings and it was epic! I haven't had an intense game like this since A11. I can't wait for you guys to get your hands on, this is glorious.

[Dunkurtin]

The game had no LBD for 13 alphas and then did for about three and now doesn’t again. It was a blip in the development of the game. You probably started playing with LBD already implemented and so thought it was the core of the game. But, honestly, I had 1000 hours in this game before there was ANY xp at all of any kind flavor or style as did many others. I don’t say this to brag about being an old timer, I say it to emphasize that I don’t believe that player skill progression is that critical or core to the game. I got tons of enjoyment without any system at all—LBD or otherwise.

 

Xp and player ability progression is fun and a nice part of the game but it is in no way the whole game and if your idea of the game completely hinges on how xp is obtained and then how it is distributed then this probably isn’t the game you thought it was.

 

They could remove all xp and perks and skills and the game would still be fully playable and enjoyable. Many view Alpha 10 as one of the greatest versions of the game and there is zero xp or skill gaining in that version. (Other than getting more pronounced at shaking and trembling by traveling 25k+ out from the center...)

 

Of course, you like to have fun the way you do and you can’t help it if you feel that xp and how it is implemented is the core of this game and the whole reason for playing. I hope there will be a mod that gives it the emphasis and format you are desiring.

 

I followed from about alpha 12, started "play-testing" at 14 to determine if I wanted to invest, and did invest during 16 because I felt it was worth it. No xp would be preferable to the current system to me. If there is going to be a leveling system however, I prefer one that adds to the survival experience, rather than just gating it.

 

You can call it a blip, but it was a really a highlight, it also lasted a very long time considering the wait time for A17. And before you play that down as just my opinion, it was the most successful period for the game based on all available stats. Playerbase from alpha to alpha steadily increased during the time LBD was in the game, unless A18 is successful in pulling it back (and I genuinely hope it is even though I don't feel its personally for me), it has trended down since the removal of the feature.

 

As always, time will tell whether it's removal was ultimately a poor choice for the game development.

 

EDIT:

To break down why I think certain systems add or subract from survival experience.

 

No XP: Progression is based on gathering of required materials and spending time to build what you need. No artificial hurdles.

 

LBD: Progression is based on mixture of gathering required materials, spending time learning relevant skills, and time needed to build what you need. Addition of a hurdle, but it does not feel artificial because it reflects real life hurdles. Time is required to learn specific skills.

 

Current skill tree: Progression is based on mixture of gathering required materials, earning any kind of experience, being at a certain arbitrary 'level' to learn a skill, and time needed to build what you need. Introduced hurdles are purely artificial in nature.

[ZombieSurvivor]

I followed from about alpha 12, started "play-testing" at 14 to determine if I wanted to invest, and did invest during 16 because I felt it was worth it. No xp would be preferable to the current system to me. <snip>

 

You know not what you ask. I was around in the days before XP was implemented. It was still a fun game but it was, imo, a building sim back in the day.

[Dunkurtin]

You know not what you ask. I was around in the days before XP was implemented. It was still a fun game but it was, imo, a building sim back in the day.

 

Not asking for anything. I don't expect any changes to be made based on my comments. That said, from what I remember when I was following the game pre-xp, the horde nights also weren't as much of a challenge back then. I think that if you took the current game (or A18) and removed xp, it would be a much more balanced game than it was in earlier alphas, as combat preperation would still take up a considerable amount of your time, preventing it from becoming just a building sim.

 

EDIT: If there is any real purpose to my comments it's simply to help MM understand why his current approach to hyping the game isn't working for those of us who preferred LBD. There is no point trying to tell us that its more of a survival experience than before, because that's ultimately an empty sentiment. And it's why myself and many others got sick of trying to give feedback and just left not long after A17 was released. We don't want to keep just being told we are "just wrong" despite how many detailed breakdowns we provide of how the gameplay has been affected.

 

MM and the other Devs would be better served by instead acknowledging how much was actually removed from the game experience but highlighting how well other new features work together. You are never going to convince those of us who liked the deeper system that this is not a survival-lite system. So instead sell us on why we can still enjoy the survival-lite experience with all the other new features that compliment the new direction.

[SrslyGTFO]

Thanks! Yeah they never got even close to me before, I just had Gazz turn up how many guys total spawn so before I'd mow em down and be collecting loot by midnight or one, I wanted zeds all night plus I turned up block damage on ferals so this was my first test with those settings and it was epic! I haven't had an intense game like this since A11. I can't wait for you guys to get your hands on, this is glorious.

 

Is there a new feral block damage option, or did you tweak that in XML? I seem to remember only normal block damage and blood moon block damage.

[Guppycur]

Check out that video I just shot and tell me. I didn't like how horde night was over so fast if you had 16+ alive so I had gazz add more total counts to the later stages. As you can see it lasted all night I'll need to farm more ammo for sure and try to get a better m60.

 

Fantastic idea...

[SrslyGTFO]

Not asking for anything. I don't expect any changes to be made based on my comments. That said, from what I remember when I was following the game pre-xp, the horde nights also weren't as much of a challenge back then. I think that if you took the current game (or A18) and removed xp, it would be a much more balanced game than it was in earlier alphas, as combat preperation would still take up a considerable amount of your time, preventing it from becoming just a building sim.

 

Have you tried Roland's no-XP mod for A17?

 

I would be interested in a LBD mod as a new game mode. Once the game goes gold, I wouldn't be surprised if someone takes on the challenge. I'm thankful that the game supports mods such that so many things can be tweaked to almost anyone's preferences.