Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[SnowDog1942]

So on regular days I'm sneaking around getting loot but not getting any XP because I'm not killing zombies, the main way to get XP, then on horde nights I'm ill-prepared because not only do I have a useless build for the night but I do not have the XP to have levelled up.

.

 

If u are not killing zombies and not getting that exp your gamestage will be much more forgiving. All that loot, saving ammo,

Low gamestage...its quite hack.

[Guppycur]

Do zombies target individual players or the nearest available player? If it's the latter your tank buddies are the bait/distraction while you shoot from the shadows.

 

And once I shoot, I'm the new target? No thank you.

 

Look, all of this is conjecture of course since we haven't played a18, but I haven't seen any stealth perks that would help me on day 7, so it seems to ME, that stealth perks should only be bought after the useful ones are filled.

[RipClaw]

So on regular days I'm sneaking around getting loot but not getting any XP because I'm not killing zombies, the main way to get XP, then on horde nights I'm ill-prepared because not only do I have a useless build for the night but I do not have the XP to have levelled up.

 

In SP this could work, sort of, but in MP I might as well log out on day 7's because my buddies, with other zombie killing builds, are bringing the glowies.

 

Stealth doesn't mean you don't kill zombies. In fact, I can kill zombies very effectively with the combination of stealth and perception. I don't kill a lot of zombies in a short amount of time when using stealth, but I cause a lot of damage through all the bonuses with a single shot. With 5 points in hidden strike and 5 points in boom head shot I kill with my crossbow many of the radioactive zombies with a single headshot.

 

And in the horde night I have my base that kills the zombies for me. I support the base with my SMG and also get a little XP. Most XP I get anyway by collecting resources.

 

But you're right that stealth works mostly for single players. I haven't experienced a multiplayer group that is particularly quiet when it comes to looting a POI.

[Guppycur]

Stealth doesn't mean you don't kill zombies. In fact, I can kill zombies very effectively with the combination of stealth and perception. I don't have high DPS when using stealth, but I cause a lot of damage through all the bonuses. With 5 points in hidden strike and 5 points in boom head shot I kill with my crossbow many of the radioactive zombies with a single headshot.

 

And in the horde night I have my base that kills the zombies for me. I support the base with my SMG and also get a little XP. Most XP I get anyway by collecting resources.

 

But you're right that stealth is especially good for single players. I haven't experienced a multiplayer group that is particularly quiet when it comes to looting a POI.

 

Oh stealth sounds great on all of the other days, it's just day 7 where I'm curious what the balance is. I'm guessing all of the loot you picked up gives you the resources to rely on your base, but then that means you're playing a VERY specific way, right?

[MajorMunchy]

also another thing I have noticed don't know if its fixed in a18 but when you are riding shotgun in the 4x4 the shotgun driver for some reason cannot see the vehicles wheels turning

 

same. also, did TFP fix it already/in A18 the bug where you knly here the vehcile your ridings noise? Its sad, but funny when my friends pass my on a mini bike or anything else for that matter and i cant hear the engine but all i hear is idiotic honking

[Guppycur]

also another thing I have noticed don't know if its fixed in a18 but when you are riding shotgun in the 4x4 the shotgun driver for some reason cannot see the vehicles wheels turning

 

same. also, did TFP fix it already/in A18 the bug where you knly here the vehcile your ridings noise? Its sad, but funny when my friends pass my on a mini bike or anything else for that matter and i cant hear the engine but all i hear is idiotic honking

 

Those are network lag issues, no biggie.

[Thecolours]

Hey Madmole are you going to give content creators a 3 day early access period like you guys did in A17? I had no issues with it, just curious.

[Mechanimal]

I'm looking forward to seeing these new "remnant" POIs. I used to often make a base within some of the POIs in A16 that got removed, although I miss those buildings, their replacements are admittedly awesome. The ones I used to love were the 2 or 3 story brick ones with the small store fronts and high ceiling loft apartments above. Sure I can and have made my own base, it just never feels right to me. Like, everybody in the world is gone and it is full of empty buildings, who in their right minds would make something from scratch? Adapting POIs is one of my favorite things, it always felt right, like far more how it would actually be.

 

One of my best games ever was an MP server where a bunch of us each took over our own building in a small city cluster. It was so awesome, 2 years later and I still play with the people I met there because we had such an amazing time on that server. I actually lived in the damn football stadium, boy did I take on a big task, but making my BM tower mid-field on the 50 yard line made Blood Moons so entertaining.

 

I hated the servers that prohibited building in POIs, those usually also had walls full of rules too... ugh, no thanks. It's not that I can't or don't want to make my own base from scratch, love it actually, again it just never felt realistic to me, but I know that's a personal thing.

 

I must admit I was super conflicted about all the new amazing POIs in A17, you can imagine why. All of a sudden there were buildings that had a purpose to them, which is great, love them, but that had never mattered before. Still glad you made them, and I still convert POIs anyway. My fav so far was the Pawn Shop near the Bakery and Bear Den. That makes for an awesome little base. A 3 wide garage door fits perfectly up front, did double those actually, and used the front room of the building as my garage. The windows already have iron bars on them, and make great turret spots, one on either side. Then I did BMs inside the Bakery next door, sounds weird but worked well, poor Bakery.

 

Anyway, would love to see some of these new remnants. Also wondering how much Navezgane has changed, a little or a lot? I highly prefer it over RWG, is just so well laid out and sculpted by comparison.

[ZombieSurvivor]

I haven't seen any stealth perks that would help me on day 7, so it seems to ME, that stealth perks should only be bought after the useful ones are filled.

 

As I only play as stealthy as possible even before it was possible. I tend to agree with you that stealth specific builds do not help during horde night so I do indeed find myself putting perks in all the other vital areas first and then i start spending my points on any perks related to stealth. This means I cannot really be all that stealthy until around level 25-35. I am by no means complaining as i just adjust my tactics according to the game but it will be cool to see what changes are made for A18.

 

Part of the fun with these major updates is having to adjust tactics according to that which has changed.

[Tin]

Again. Forcing people to play stealth is a bad thing imho. Especially with the whole pick a playstyle and go for it. If one playstyle requires 500 ammo and then other dosen't that's bad game balance. Just how I see it.

 

You are comparing A17 to MM's A18. A17 probably just has a bit of a resource acquisition imbalance when doing a "Gun-Nut" build, that focuses on the need for ammo. Maybe A18 will fix that balance? These ammo cashes in certain poi's that MM is talking about, sounds like its a move to help correct that imbalance.

Just sounds like a balance issue to me, that is accidentally pushing certain play-styles to be more viable for A17.

[Mechanimal]

Oh stealth sounds great on all of the other days, it's just day 7 where I'm curious what the balance is. I'm guessing all of the loot you picked up gives you the resources to rely on your base, but then that means you're playing a VERY specific way, right?

 

This is not a far cry from how I do it, and a big part of why. I main stealth to conserve what I need for BM. But I do it via methodology more than perk focused. Perks help, a lot, but to me are not super necessary. As I mentioned before it is a habit I tuned in a dif game where the behavior was critical to game play.

[madmole]

I hope one day you strive to be better than a mediocre game. No, I don't expect a lean animation, but come on, you yourself have made a bajillion posts about rusts inadequacies, but then you turn around and use it as reference when it's convenient.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Keys can be remapped (see the Bow Drop Incident of 2016). And it could be made to be important. That's the point.

 

Having a million features doesn't make a great game. Having all polished and well done and balanced features does. When have I bagged on RUST? I love that game. I think they are great designers. I'm just saying the top PC PVP game on steam that isn't free to play doesn't have lean, so why would we need it when we're not even in that space? We're probably getting third person support someday, so leaning would give you nothing, you can see around corners once thats in.

[RipClaw]

Oh stealth sounds great on all of the other days, it's just day 7 where I'm curious what the balance is. I'm guessing all of the loot you picked up gives you the resources to rely on your base, but then that means you're playing a VERY specific way, right?

 

Actually, I spend most of my time mining resources when I'm building a base. Looting comes second. I play just the way I enjoy it. That works well for me.

[madmole]

There's an inherent problem with a stealth build in this game though... You're spending points on it instead of important "builds", and this flaw comes up every 7 days when the gps zombies come.

 

What's the advantage of stealth on a "stealth doesn't work" day? And if there is none, why do that build at all?

 

166 hours a week I'm invisible and the 2 I'm not you are saying that makes it worthless? I played a stealth build and it was great. If its not your thing then don't do it. We've talked about being able to lose their scent on horde night with max perks. Not sure its a good move though.

[madmole]

This whole time I have been avoiding cities thinking they just were not worth the hassle. Now your telling me they are not as bad as before, heck time for city looting! I had no idea the cities were nerfed a bit for A17.x

 

Cities haven't changed since probably alpha 13.

[madmole]

So on regular days I'm sneaking around getting loot but not getting any XP because I'm not killing zombies, the main way to get XP, then on horde nights I'm ill-prepared because not only do I have a useless build for the night but I do not have the XP to have levelled up.

 

In SP this could work, sort of, but in MP I might as well log out on day 7's because my buddies, with other zombie killing builds, are bringing the glowies.

 

Looting gives XP. We've massively rebalanced all play styles to be fairly equal in A18.

[ZombieSurvivor]

huh I stand corrected, I wonder what all this talk about cities not having enough zombies is then. I thought the cities still felt as dangerous as before. To each there own i guess.

[Mechanimal]

166 hours a week I'm invisible and the 2 I'm not you are saying that makes it worthless? I played a stealth build and it was great. If its not your thing then don't do it. We've talked about being able to lose their scent on horde night with max perks. Not sure its a good move though.

 

Hmm, not sure either... By the time I maxed that far I might make use of such a thing if I got into a hairy situation, but I otherwise enjoy BMs, and of course who wants to lose all that XP, even though you may not need it so bad by that point. I wouldn't abuse it, but others might. The only thing that makes that sound alright is if it were a late game thing, maybe would need a book set completed. So, if it was a serious challenge to achieve then I would not consider it all that bad. Kind of a nice high level achievement ability, would feel good just to have it even if you didn't use it. If it were easy or early/mid game achievable then I would think it was not a good move. Gonna think bout it some more...

[Roland]

Stealth Build

Pro: conserve bullets

Con: weak on horde night

 

Gun Nut Build

Pro: strong on horde night

Con: spend many bullets

 

Seems fair. The stealth guy will have lots of bullets to spend on horde night and have more time to make traps and passive defenses since he won’t have to mine and scavenge to craft more bullets.

 

The gun nut guy will need to spend time crafting bullets but will be able to more easily mow down the waves of zombies on horde night by taking direct action.

 

Strengths and weaknesses. Why take stealth if it is weaker on horde night? Because it results in a different experience with unique challenges if you played a guns blazing build the last time.

 

Not really seeing an issue here.

[ZombieSurvivor]

We've talked about being able to lose their scent on horde night with max perks. Not sure its a good move though.

 

I think that would be a great idea so long as its like a final perk for stealth. This way it benifits mainly those who are investing the majority of there points in stealth. I think though that there should be an option so the player with the perk can activate it or deactive it for a horde night.

[Callum123456789]

madmole what is your favourite part of alpha 18?

[Guppycur]

huh I stand corrected, I wonder what all this talk about cities not having enough zombies is then. I thought the cities still felt as dangerous as before. To each there own i guess.

 

Cities don't have any more zombies in them than any other place in the world, EXCEPT that they have more buildings, which have more sleepers. Out in the streets, it's the exact same spawning as the biome it's in.

 

So if your city is in the desert, the "wilderness spawns" (what you would see in the streets) are exactly the same as anywhere else in the desert.

 

What it USED to be like was, when you entered a city, the spawns in the streets would be insane. It was glorious, but a design choice where they went another direction with.

[Roland]

Oh stealth sounds great on all of the other days, it's just day 7 where I'm curious what the balance is. I'm guessing all of the loot you picked up gives you the resources to rely on your base, but then that means you're playing a VERY specific way, right?

 

What is very specific about defending a base during horde night? Are you saying that stealth players are trapped within the confining play style of reinforcing a base with upgraded materials and traps and perhaps a gauntlet maze all while shooting at zombies that get through the defenses or perhaps taking a more aggressive and active role by shooting zombies as they approach to soften them up for the traps?

 

Kind of sounds like....the game....to me.

 

What is the very specific gameplay you are thinking stealth guys will get locked into 1 night out of every 7?

[Guppycur]

Looting gives XP. We've massively rebalanced all play styles to be fairly equal in A18.

 

That's awesome news, thanks.

[ZombieSurvivor]

Stealth Build

Pro: conserve bullets

Con: weak on horde night

 

Gun Nut Build

Pro: strong on horde night

Con: spend many bullets

 

Seems fair. The stealth guy will have lots of bullets to spend on horde night and have more time to make traps and passive defenses since he won’t have to mine and scavenge to craft more bullets.

 

The gun nut guy will need to spend time crafting bullets but will be able to more easily mow down the waves of zombies on horde night by taking direct action.

 

Strengths and weaknesses. Why take stealth if it is weaker on horde night? Because it results in a different experience with unique challenges if you played a guns blazing build the last time.

 

Not really seeing an issue here.

 

I was in the middle of writing up something exactly as you stated.

 

Yes indeed being stealthy, at least for me, i am able to conserve almost all my ammo during the week. once horde night hits I always have plenty of ammo. This is coming from a player that never mines but only loots for ammo. I agree with the pros and cons you listed, its dead on.