Trankitas Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 No not really, inside a voxel is typically void space where you would fall through the world. Im all for bear traps, also, anything to show about the mines update? (you talked about bouncing bettys, claymores, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 5 to 10? I can tell you are still a Johnny Newcome to game design lol. I'd say 2-3 things would be plenty. Overdesign means confused players, harder to implement and more bugs, none of us benefit from that. We're generally thinking everyone spawns in the pine forest and it is normal difficulty. Snow will be colder and have slower moving harder to kill zeds, and cold will make you shiver which burns through calories faster, so take lots of food and cold weather gear. Desert will make you hot so all the sweating will require a ton of water to drink, so bring a lot of water. Wasteland will be radiated, so bring hazmat and rad pills. Burnt smoke will lower stamina, so maybe bring coffee or stimulants. All non pine forest biomes would have increased game stage, so harder zombies and better loot. Radiated zone would be highest game stage modification. You probably are but.. I hope you all are also working towards making the other biomes more compelling as well, so that the player wants to go to them on a regular basis, or wants to stay in them. The reward of doing so is currently fleeting and they are basically "one an done" areas you go to atm. Just saying, the Pine forest is the only biome you really need to stay in, because you don't 'need' or 'compelled', to go anywhere else in the game. Food is plentiful. Water is a non-issue (for any biome). Towns are generally the same in all biomes (so the loot you get from them is the same). Even if you did make weather more of an issue (btw bring it!), the other biomes would still be rougher to live in, and still have no real reason to compel the player to go to them, except once. Just more in depth reasoning as to why I think so (in spoiler): For instance: What do you have in the burnt forest, that is compelling enough for the player to go there? I'm finding it hard to come up with a reason personally. While the atmospheric vibe I find pretty cool, and it's actually the easiest biome, as far as killing the zombies in, it has nothing that is really relevant for the player to go there. Unless you just want a change of scenery, or want a new town to loot.. and since the towns are basically the same in any biome atm (hopefully will change?!).. why go there? How about the Snow Biome? You have an unlimited water supply and a smattering of berries.. Why would I want to combat the weather all the time, and the tougher zombies? all I need is the seeds from the berries (that I can actually find in loot, or harvest the plant from, in some poi's in the pine forest) to bring back and start farming.. I can also gather enough snow from the biome to have enough water for a life time, and don't really need to go back anymore after the initial visit. The desert? Even with never fearing of going hungry in that biome (which is weird to me), once I get the seeds from the yucca and aloe plants (again, I can find them in loot containers or around certain pois to harvest from in the pine forest), why bother staying to combat the weather, when the pine forest is less of a hassle, and I can grow aloe and yucca in it? Wasteland? minus just going there because..? Not saying you don't have a plan to change any of this, but I hope you all do have a plan. As of right now, I have no reason to go to other biomes atm, or in the recent past of A16 till A17+ so far. Eventually a new person who gets the game, in it's current state, and once the shininess wears off, they are going to quickly find the same thing. Hopefully they'll start just RP'ing a reason to visit them again, but even that only lasts for lil bit. Even with that, If you are new to the game, and once you find out everywhere else is harder to live, and can still get everything in the Pine forest with less hassle? the question remains.. why go there? Sorry, not bringing this up to side track on the thoughts or ideas you all want to implement (again, bring it!), just bringing it up, because it's kinda hard not to notice with the game atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 I must know how to play at least 10 acdc songs on guitar lol. Not sure I want to picture you in a schoolboy uniform... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 I don't like it anyways when someone brings up terms like "realism, realistic, in real life,..." here. I mean, how realistic is it that you can craft a perfectly shaped/rectified cube shaped frame out of a raw chunk of wood with wour bare hands in under one second? How realistic is it to cross a river swimming, while you are carrying a thousand buckets of wet concrete? Dang, how realistic is it to wake up naked in the middle of a zombie apocalypse? And how lame would it play it you couldn't? Like madmole said, things have to work out/ feel right ingame. The goal has to be to create a nice and fun gameplay, thats what matters. So please don't complain about "realism" Its nice to be grounded ideas in reality but wise not limit yourself to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 Single players need to be jacks of all trades. Wrong and even more wrong with Alpha 18, we are working towards being able to play with just one attribute. Of course one person's must haves are different than anothers. To me its time to roll a new character if I want to do more stuff. Perk wise one melee weapon, one ranged, one armor is good enough, and the rest are just optional complimentary perks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 Im all for bear traps, also, anything to show about the mines update? (you talked about bouncing bettys, claymores, etc) Either I'm getting alzheimers or you are fantasizing. I have no recollection of any mine update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 You probably are but.. I hope you all are also working towards making the other biomes more compelling as well, so that the player wants to go to them on a regular basis, or wants to stay in them. The reward of doing so is currently fleeting and they are basically "one an done" areas you go to atm. Just saying, the Pine forest is the only biome you really need to stay in, because you don't 'need' or 'compelled', to go anywhere else in the game. Food is plentiful. Water is a non-issue (for any biome). Towns are generally the same in all biomes (so the loot you get from them is the same). Even if you did make weather more of an issue (btw bring it!), the other biomes would still be rougher to live in, and still have no real reason to compel the player to go to them, except once. Just more in depth reasoning as to why I think so (in spoiler): For instance: What do you have in the burnt forest, that is compelling enough for the player to go there? I'm finding it hard to come up with a reason personally. While the atmospheric vibe I find pretty cool, and it's actually the easiest biome, as far as killing the zombies in, it has nothing that is really relevant for the player to go there. Unless you just want a change of scenery, or want a new town to loot.. and since the towns are basically the same in any biome atm (hopefully will change?!).. why go there? How about the Snow Biome? You have an unlimited water supply and a smattering of berries.. Why would I want to combat the weather all the time, and the tougher zombies? all I need is the seeds from the berries (that I can actually find in loot, or harvest the plant from, in some poi's in the pine forest) to bring back and start farming.. I can also gather enough snow from the biome to have enough water for a life time, and don't really need to go back anymore after the initial visit. The desert? Even with never fearing of going hungry in that biome (which is weird to me), once I get the seeds from the yucca and aloe plants (again, I can find them in loot containers or around certain pois to harvest from in the pine forest), why bother staying to combat the weather, when the pine forest is less of a hassle, and I can grow aloe and yucca in it? Wasteland? minus just going there because..? Not saying you don't have a plan to change any of this, but I hope you all do have a plan. As of right now, I have no reason to go to other biomes atm, or in the recent past of A16 till A17+ so far. Eventually a new person who gets the game, in it's current state, and once the shininess wears off, they are going to quickly find the same thing. Hopefully they'll start just RP'ing a reason to visit them again, but even that only lasts for lil bit. Even with that, If you are new to the game, and once you find out everywhere else is harder to live, and can still get everything in the Pine forest with less hassle? the question remains.. why go there? Sorry, not bringing this up to side track on the thoughts or ideas you all want to implement (again, bring it!), just bringing it up, because it's kinda hard not to notice with the game atm. I agree, they are more of a hassle than a must. There is the ore you might want exclusive to biomes. As we get closer to gold this is something we can shore up I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 Not sure I want to picture you in a schoolboy uniform... Hah, I was more like Malcom, long hair, t-shirt and jeans. RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillls Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Thats how it is now. Or unless by hit you mean attacked directly? Yes. They bump into it and the spikes take damage. I could see wooden breaking down but not something made of forged iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trankitas Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Either I'm getting alzheimers or you are fantasizing. I have no recollection of any mine update. Maybe im crazy, but i think someone said in this thread that different type of mines where useless and you reply something about checking them out, removing them and make claymores, landmines, bouncing bettys or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eromivus Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 I agree, they are more of a hassle than a must. There is the ore you might want exclusive to biomes. As we get closer to gold this is something we can shore up I'm sure. In addition to ore/biome associations, crops only being growable in certain biomes would help with this and be logical. Want aloe and yucca? Either have your base in the desert and grow it there, or be forced to make periodic trips to that biome for stock. I understand the desire to not get overly fussy with things, but i think this is intuitive. See it growing in that biome? Well, that's probably a sign that it can only grow there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBane Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 No, I know good design and over design. 10 things to think about when entering a biome? Over design. 3 is almost always the magic number for everything. I mean, sure there can be 10 things different about a biome, but 10 things to prepare for? Overkill. The magic number in meaningful change execution is nearly always found between 3-5 and usually it's 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 Yes. They bump into it and the spikes take damage. I could see wooden breaking down but not something made of forged iron. Again, realism fails in games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 Maybe im crazy, but i think someone said in this thread that different type of mines where useless and you reply something about checking them out, removing them and make claymores, landmines, bouncing bettys or something. I think someone else posted about bouncing bettys, I remember googling it to see what they did lol. No plans for land mines right now, other than perhaps they will be governed by the demolitions expert perk and deal more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 In addition to ore/biome associations, crops only being growable in certain biomes would help with this and be logical. Want aloe and yucca? Either have your base in the desert and grow it there, or be forced to make periodic trips to that biome for stock. I understand the desire to not get overly fussy with things, but i think this is intuitive. See it growing in that biome? Well, that's probably a sign that it can only grow there. We used to have fertile levels that could be used for restriction of what grows and we realized farming simulator is not what this game is all about. Overdesigned systems just don't get used by players. Arks farming is pretty stupid having to run irrigation pipes and collect dino poo and all that crap. I just want to plant some crops and come back later and harvest my ♥♥♥♥. I'd be ok with natural disasters wiping them out, but they should be easy to use. The problem with you guys suggestions is you are all 1000+ hour veterans and just want more complex stuff. Like if you get in on EA and play the game every update you can absorb more advanced techniques because you played the game when it was basic. But if a new player comes in and its not easy to understand because we designed it around you guys who are bored wanting it harder... then thats just going to kill our johnny newcomes. You have to go out, bash your head in with a rock and get amnesia, then play the game as a noob and see if it really needs that stuff lol. You have to keep new players in mind, and actually current players. I mean really that kind of stuff would make farming a big turn off to me. I don't want to set up a farm in each biome. Sure its unrealistic you can grow yucca in the snow, but its a game, and a game about fending off hordes and surviving in between. IF the in between is too tedious, you won't have time to do the fun stuff like build a base, do quests, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 The magic number in meaningful change execution is nearly always found between 3-5 and usually it's 3. 3 is the magic number most of the time from what we've found. And less is always more. I'd rather have one way to do things than 5. Five is just crazy. Like sure IRL maybe you could make vegetable stew with various combinations, but in the game we chose ONE way to do it because multiple recipes to craft the same thing stink. It might use a trinket you were saving. Like I think when we had coal torches I crafted a ton of torches and it used up all my coal instead of the lard I had. So then I couldn't craft any bullets. Its always better to lean on the simple side. You can always clunk it up later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josefdarks Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Its nice to be grounded ideas in reality but wise not limit yourself to it. I like the game like this who does not like his mechanics change Parameters records xml needless more difficulty more content and more armor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 3 is the magic number most of the time from what we've found. And less is always more. I'd rather have one way to do things than 5. Five is just crazy. Like sure IRL maybe you could make vegetable stew with various combinations, but in the game we chose ONE way to do it because multiple recipes to craft the same thing stink. It might use a trinket you were saving. Like I think when we had coal torches I crafted a ton of torches and it used up all my coal instead of the lard I had. So then I couldn't craft any bullets. Its always better to lean on the simple side. You can always clunk it up later Less is in fact always less. Many times it seems people thats who say less is more are actually just incapable of more - such as a bad drummer or guitarist. "LESS IS MORE DUDE!" That being said, the real talent is to know when less is better, to let something else stand out for example. Less could be fun, it could be easier, it could be better..... however less is always less. And yes, sometimes less sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eromivus Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 We used to have fertile levels that could be used for restriction of what grows and we realized farming simulator is not what this game is all about. Overdesigned systems just don't get used by players. Arks farming is pretty stupid having to run irrigation pipes and collect dino poo and all that crap. I just want to plant some crops and come back later and harvest my ♥♥♥♥. I'd be ok with natural disasters wiping them out, but they should be easy to use. The problem with you guys suggestions is you are all 1000+ hour veterans and just want more complex stuff. Like if you get in on EA and play the game every update you can absorb more advanced techniques because you played the game when it was basic. But if a new player comes in and its not easy to understand because we designed it around you guys who are bored wanting it harder... then thats just going to kill our johnny newcomes. You have to go out, bash your head in with a rock and get amnesia, then play the game as a noob and see if it really needs that stuff lol. You have to keep new players in mind, and actually current players. I mean really that kind of stuff would make farming a big turn off to me. I don't want to set up a farm in each biome. Sure its unrealistic you can grow yucca in the snow, but its a game, and a game about fending off hordes and surviving in between. IF the in between is too tedious, you won't have time to do the fun stuff like build a base, do quests, etc. I'm not a 1000+ hour guy, but I'm not a noob either. I'm coming at this from someone who primarily likes to build a great base and make it interesting, but who still feels the desire to either go out on outings based on need or send group members out with specific missions. That's what gives me a thrill in your game. I like being the guy who's organizing things at base, taking measure of things, solving problems, keeping others focused on goals, etc. We always get to a certain point where we really have everything running smoothly, and I'm always trying to think of new things the game could offer that would feel like we need to get out of the base in order to keep things running. I agree that I definitely don't want farming simulator, but I'm struggling to come up with other recurring and intuitive ways that get people into other biomes. I wouldn't mind having most crops growable anywhere, but have a small subset of crucial utility growables being locked into biomes for farming. Aloe for healing items, red tea, etc. Just have a clear UI text label on the seeds for those that says [bIOME HERE] ONLY. I dunno, just spitballing. I'm sure you guys will come up with something better for this particular issue. A single biome with seasons would obviate this and create a very compelling cadence for the game, but that seems like too enormous of a task for this late in development. You also made a good point about that not being compatible with PvP (unlucky bastards who join in the middle of Winter). Maybe for a future game or sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 We used to have fertile levels that could be used for restriction of what grows and we realized farming simulator is not what this game is all about. Overdesigned systems just don't get used by players. Arks farming is pretty stupid having to run irrigation pipes and collect dino poo and all that crap. I just want to plant some crops and come back later and harvest my ♥♥♥♥. I'd be ok with natural disasters wiping them out, but they should be easy to use. The problem with you guys suggestions is you are all 1000+ hour veterans and just want more complex stuff. Like if you get in on EA and play the game every update you can absorb more advanced techniques because you played the game when it was basic. But if a new player comes in and its not easy to understand because we designed it around you guys who are bored wanting it harder... then thats just going to kill our johnny newcomes. You have to go out, bash your head in with a rock and get amnesia, then play the game as a noob and see if it really needs that stuff lol. You have to keep new players in mind, and actually current players. I mean really that kind of stuff would make farming a big turn off to me. I don't want to set up a farm in each biome. Sure its unrealistic you can grow yucca in the snow, but its a game, and a game about fending off hordes and surviving in between. IF the in between is too tedious, you won't have time to do the fun stuff like build a base, do quests, etc. This may be true but those noobs turn into 1000 plus hour gamers. IF there is a reason to. We had reason to. We didnt gain our 1000 plus playing A17, we gained it playing a game that for 16 alphas your team and yourself thought good enough to present. So now the shift in focus is to lure the new gamers in, practically abandoning the majority of your long time fans and community. Things like farming and mining are not supposed to be noob friendly. If you make EVERYTHING noob friendly then what kind of game do you have left? I find it hilarious you often put down Ark as stupid. Its not the first time you have posted this. Yet look at Arks numbers. Several years later they hold quite strong. And they retain their core community because they dont reinvent the wheel. They add to it, make it more complex and give people reasons to come back, reasons to stay in game longer and reasons to progress. 7 Days is quickly running out of these reasons. There used to be a time when wiping hurt. Because things took a while to learn and achieve. Now it seems like wiping isnt so bad because in a few days you will have it all back again. Ill always be a fan of you and this game but it saddens me. I know Im not the target audience anymore. How long anyone plays this game for means nothing to you and the team. Its the sale. You make no more if they play 10 minutes or 10 years. Lets just hope all these new customers become the die hards we used to be so the positive word of mouth can be passed down to a new generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Wrong and even more wrong with Alpha 18, we are working towards being able to play with just one attribute. Of course one person's must haves are different than anothers. To me its time to roll a new character if I want to do more stuff. Perk wise one melee weapon, one ranged, one armor is good enough, and the rest are just optional complimentary perks. Well as of right now it is correct... and is until A18 exists. Besides, I wasn't just referring to combat. I know these days when people think 7D2D you think zombie killing... but for most of us it's also mining, resource gathering, building... of which you need to have a nice balance of to play single player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA_Q2 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 They are boring not because they are not dungeons. They simply dont have the same level of detail as the new dungeon POIs. The new POIs look like a lot more work went into them (and had a lot more options for visual variations abailable). But that approach would also improve the classic non restrictive buildings. Yes. The devs have already stated that they are making many more POI's and that many are not going to be the dungeion style that we got with many of the new POI's added in 17. So, what is your point then? The old POI's are terrible as they were not final products. New POI's are coming that will fill the simple POI role. - - - Updated - - - MM, I have seen little to nothing posted on solar power for a long time. Right now, solar is utterly useless because the performance impact is insane on even simple circuits. I really, really, REALLY want to convert to a renewable power system but it is just not feasible at the moment. Is there any indication on when this may change if at all? Are there any additions that you guys really think is going to be made to electrical options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 This may be true but those noobs turn into 1000 plus hour gamers. IF there is a reason to. We had reason to. We didnt gain our 1000 plus playing A17, we gained it playing a game that for 16 alphas your team and yourself thought good enough to present. So now the shift in focus is to lure the new gamers in, practically abandoning the majority of your long time fans and community. Things like farming and mining are not supposed to be noob friendly. If you make EVERYTHING noob friendly then what kind of game do you have left? I find it hilarious you often put down Ark as stupid. Its not the first time you have posted this. Yet look at Arks numbers. Several years later they hold quite strong. And they retain their core community because they dont reinvent the wheel. They add to it, make it more complex and give people reasons to come back, reasons to stay in game longer and reasons to progress. 7 Days is quickly running out of these reasons. There used to be a time when wiping hurt. Because things took a while to learn and achieve. Now it seems like wiping isnt so bad because in a few days you will have it all back again. Ill always be a fan of you and this game but it saddens me. I know Im not the target audience anymore. How long anyone plays this game for means nothing to you and the team. Its the sale. You make no more if they play 10 minutes or 10 years. Lets just hope all these new customers become the die hards we used to be so the positive word of mouth can be passed down to a new generation. Who had April 17th? (I kid, I'm in agreement with my biker friend on this one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBane Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 3 is the magic number most of the time from what we've found. And less is always more. I'd rather have one way to do things than 5. Five is just crazy. Like sure IRL maybe you could make vegetable stew with various combinations, but in the game we chose ONE way to do it because multiple recipes to craft the same thing stink. It might use a trinket you were saving. Like I think when we had coal torches I crafted a ton of torches and it used up all my coal instead of the lard I had. So then I couldn't craft any bullets. Its always better to lean on the simple side. You can always clunk it up later Agree completely. Simple elegance is always the desired outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moldy Bread Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Wrong and even more wrong with Alpha 18, we are working towards being able to play with just one attribute. Of course one person's must haves are different than anothers. To me its time to roll a new character if I want to do more stuff. Perk wise one melee weapon, one ranged, one armor is good enough, and the rest are just optional complimentary perks. This sounds terrible. Just because someone who is a good doctor does not mean they cannot be a good chief and so on. This seems like limiting the game for the sake of just limiting the game. What's good atm is that you start off as a weakling however, after hard work and time you can become a terminator. You have earned it as you have fought off all and survived. Having these limits just limits fun. The first thing I'll do in A18 is have to increase the points given for leveling up. If the game only gets harder, then why can't I? Also, can't say I like the idea of this "wet weather" system. The weather system in the game atm is already horrendous, if you walk into a snow biome you turn into an icicle and if you walk into a desert you combust (making me wonder how there were even towns and zombies in there to begin with as surly everyone who was wearing normal clothes would have died anyway) it seems like another artificial problem being added that no one was really asking for. Instead, why not add new zombies with new roles and etc? The issue with this is sometimes their really is nothing to do but explore, either the base is finished or you need to go gather resources to work on the base. But since it's raining then I can't go outside so I may as well just minimize my game and watch a Youtube video until the rain stops as I can't do anything else. To be honest the current too hot and too cold system is fine (even though it needs some work), because being wet doesn't actually give you a cold, a cold is caused by a virus (which is only helped by you being cold) so as long as you are still a good temperature then you should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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