How do you like A17 experimental NOW?

[beHypE]

Myself and a few others tried to convey this same sentiment during Experimental but unfortunately it was easily dismissed because its not the direction they want to take the game in. For me this Experimental was filled with lots of heartbreak as the updates each rolled in. I was often told to wait until stable because Experimental was all about change but here we are.

 

Maybe the public reception will help it become more clear that what people will want is NOT simplification but more content and complexity. A17 actually took the engaging gameplay and all but removed it in favor of a more linear boring perks system.

 

So many awesome ideas and concepts in 17, along with the amazing POI work, the graphical updates and the AI, But also so much of what all of us actually loved about the game (activity, scavenging, trade and creativity) has now either been removed or severely handicapped.

 

I'm just as disappointed as you are. I kept hoping they were planning something big during experimental given all the feedback concerning books and how the Intelligence tree maps out evolution for you instead of making it thrilling and packing suspense like it used to be. Guess it's just the way it is and I can only hope some amazing modder will bring back books and get rid of the Intelligence tree as a whole, or i'll just play A16 / skip an Alpha and hope A18 brings more content (because quite frankly, A17 is really disappointing to me given we've waited over a year... and most of the "content" I don't even agree with)

[JamesKirk]

I don't understand all the complaints about RWG. My last game the map generated 8k in maybe 1-2 minutes, and there are loads of POIs. I saw one floating building that collapsed into a pile of rubble, so it looked like a destroyed building and everything was fine. The biome distribution is weird, but it doesn't make me hate it.

 

We generated a map on a private dedicated server.

There was a city with a large industrial area, with 8 big buildings in it.

Unfortunately they were only of 2 types. One was 5 times generated in direct neighbourship.

 

I would have expected a little more diversity.

 

But:

 

This game is a looooooooot more fun than A16, which was really easy going. In A17 you have to use all your

senses and brain to counteract AI to survive.

Can't count the moments where I cursed with really bad words, because I got surprised by some ugly creatures.

Died a lot more often than in whole A16 time. My fault...

You need to completely rework your tactics, and use your eyes and ears to locate the bad guys and the good loot in hidden places.

 

The only flaw (for me), get RWG working and this game will rock for months.

[Tman]

4. Last - item quality - better items should have better stats. Durability alone is just lazy thinking... or give us more mods and wider ranges of modding the items to our liking. Maybe tiered mods (t1 +10% dmg, t2 +20% dmg... t5 +50% dmg, just an example of a dmg mod)?

 

Bad idea to do it that way, quality=damage alone is how it was and why they gave it a change. And btw you already can do similar stuff still just in another way. You can add mods. First adding a mod that adds firerate or accuracy alone already adds a ton of power to a weapon even without "moar dammadge!", second every mod slightly (well not that slightly actually, it's mostly 10%-20%) increases the base dmg of every weapon. For example a minimal compound bow (stone arrow no mods) goes from 28 dmg to more than 60 fully modded with steel arrows.

Zero need to square that progression again. It would actually harm gameplay a lot.

[Anarath]

If neither of you are willing to open the console and enter one line of text to negate the death penalty then I don't think there's anything anyone could say to keep you playing.

 

You better learn to read more carefully, then your answers may not be so ridiculous next time. Just a friendly advice.

[DaVegaNL]

We generated a map on a private dedicated server.

There was a city with a large industrial area, with 8 big buildings in it.

Unfortunately they were only of 2 types. One was 5 times generated in direct neighbourship.

 

I would have expected a little more diversity.

 

But:

 

This game is a looooooooot more fun than A16, which was really easy going. In A17 you have to use all your

senses and brain to counteract AI to survive.

Can't count the moments where I cursed with really bad words, because I got surprised by some ugly creatures.

Died a lot more often than in whole A16 time. My fault...

You need to completely rework your tactics, and use your eyes and ears to locate the bad guys and the good loot in hidden places.

 

The only flaw (for me), get RWG working and this game will rock for months.

 

Yeah I totally share your sentiment. A17 is lightyears ahead of A16.4 in terms of fun. Sure, there are some items which definitely need some work (RGW for example), but overall, it's a very nice game!

 

The roads.. They are more like rollercoasters than roads..

[Curbolt]

So far i like a17 (beside optimizations), but i dont like the new stamina/health system, the A16 one was better.

 

I'm missing how much food an item gives, it just says max stamina and health.

[Viktoriusiii]

Want to change my answer from "dislike most of it" to

"hate it", as you just released this broken game just because of the steam wintersales.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt. But as this is stable, I absolutely hate it and will go back to A16.4

[mr.devolver]

Fix the bugs, add pre-modded items into the world and to traders for sale AND as rewards (very important to make rewards more interesting for everyone), remove player level gates (I was fine with spending more experience points to unlock things earlier) and you have a decent stable A17.

[eXSe]

Bad idea to do it that way, quality=damage alone is how it was and why they gave it a change. And btw you already can do similar stuff still just in another way. You can add mods. First adding a mod that adds firerate or accuracy alone already adds a ton of power to a weapon even without "moar dammadge!", second every mod slightly (well not that slightly actually, it's mostly 10%-20%) increases the base dmg of every weapon. For example a minimal compound bow (stone arrow no mods) goes from 28 dmg to more than 60 fully modded with steel arrows.

Zero need to square that progression again. It would actually harm gameplay a lot.

 

I was just giving an example of what could be done by citing damage as one of the options, not saying that we need "moar dammadge!". I like to have "moar" options in my game and progression feel, so I think that this could be a way to get that. Different bullets also, like in 16.4 mods (FMJ, hollow point, etc.).

[ogre92]

1. If its closed it has loot. If it doesn't its a bug or you were on MP and someone looted it already.

 

 

I'm guesstimating here but playing on a MP server with one other friend so it's fairly easy to know where he's been, I hit maybe 30-40% of loot containers that are non-looted but empty. That number includes trash bags, dumpsters, etc...

 

My question is are we only talking about cabinets, nightstands, ovens (things that have looted vs non-looted graphics) when you say "if it's closed it has loot"? I haven't watched that narrower designation specifically so I'll start watching that but I feel like I've looted closed cabinets and not gotten loot. I'm assuming from your statement if I see that we should report it?

[HungryZombie]

For me, the game has become way too hard. On A16 I played it on normal setting and have a game going near 100 days. I've died lots of times, but mostly it's my fault. With A17 on the easiest setting I cannot make it past day 3 without rage quitting. The melee has gone from feeling okay to plain out horrible. I have hit thousands of zeds on the head with various blunt objects, so I know what it is supposed to feel like. In A17 it just feels wonky. I can be standing right in front of a Zed and I will whiff over and over.

 

I know some of you are video game wizards and have no problem with the game, but there are lots of us casual gamers that are struggling with this build. It has become so frustrating to the point I do not want to play it anymore.

 

Is there zero chance you'd lower the difficulty to make melee'ing the zombies easier? It really does help me out when I'm not in the mood for slow killing of zombies.

[HungryZombie]

You better learn to read more carefully, then your answers may not be so ridiculous next time. Just a friendly advice.

 

It would not be the first time my friend, I'm aware of this flaw of mine. Let's see...

 

I'm playing with a friend of mine ... still on A16. And the death penalty is just one of the many reasons for that.

 

This is what I was addressing. What did I misread here? One line of text in the console command negates the death penalty part that seems to be one of the many reasons. In fact it was the first reason you stated and followed another post about the death penalty so, maybe wrongly, I assumed it was a larger reason among many.

 

Anyways sorry to offend. Merry Christmas!

[BloodDeacon]

We generated a map on a private dedicated server.

There was a city with a large industrial area, with 8 big buildings in it.

Unfortunately they were only of 2 types. One was 5 times generated in direct neighbourship.

 

I would have expected a little more diversity.

 

But:

 

This game is a looooooooot more fun than A16, which was really easy going. In A17 you have to use all your

senses and brain to counteract AI to survive.

Can't count the moments where I cursed with really bad words, because I got surprised by some ugly creatures.

Died a lot more often than in whole A16 time. My fault...

You need to completely rework your tactics, and use your eyes and ears to locate the bad guys and the good loot in hidden places.

 

The only flaw (for me), get RWG working and this game will rock for months.

 

See, I couldn't disagree with this sentiment more. A17 is very good from a "test your reflexes" standpoint, and not so much one that requires any careful planning or heavy brain-power. The only tactic you really need to hone is how to kill zombies as quickly as possible in as short a time frame as possible. Concepts like gradually training skills to become a master builder, master miner, etc. and diverse looting are a non-issue in A17, since everything boils down to the same progression -- and currently killing zombies is the only efficient means of leveling.

[FranticDan]

I have zero issues with stamina, and I've rolled new games every day for weeks on end. All you do is the starter quest, get your 4 points and you will level up shortly after so thats 5 points. 1 into Agility (an extra 10 stamina seems to help a ton) 1 into strength, 1 sexual trex to reduce melee stamina costs, 1 into master chef. 1 into cardio if you want, but I've been getting along great without it. Do not wear any armor. Next thing I do is look for ruins buildings because they have toilets that contain murky water, and old sinks which drop cooking pots, acid and short metal pipes, all which are needed. On the way punch (uses least stamina) every red flower you see and save for making red tea (which reduces stamina use)

 

Stop at every nest and collect feathers and eggs. If you see any game make sure to kill it, you don't know how long it will be before you see another animal. Even if its a wolf, craft some frames or jump on a rock or car and sneak arrow it for the first shot. They aren't very hard to kill just make sure they can't get to you by standing on something, or backpedal if you are confident. The red tea reduces stamina use for a little while. Char meat and eat it to keep topped off. You can eat the fat now too and its safe without cooking. Make bacon and eggs as soon as possible, its one of the most nourishing easy to make foods. Zero stamina or hunger issues playing this way.

 

Like me, you seem pretty hardcore, I'm liking the way stamina is managed. You didn't mention the slow metabolism which is great as I too don't feel the need to take it! I think people still have to adapt to this new mechanism, I like it as it makes food and water an real issue, unlike in A16 it was meh, and also because it adds a bit of realism, I mean I know I would be pretty damn exhausted if I did everything I was making my character do!

[Kattla]

It's a fading star, this game.

But i am not quite ready to jump ship just yet. Have to find another ship first.

[Anarath]

It would not be the first time my friend, I'm aware of this flaw of mine. Let's see...

 

This is what I was addressing. What did I misread here? One line of text in the console command negates the death penalty part that seems to be one of the many reasons. In fact it was the first reason you stated and followed another post about the death penalty so, maybe wrongly, I assumed it was a larger reason among many.

 

Anyways sorry to offend. Merry Christmas!

 

Thats my gift to you for Christmas ... A valuable lesson: Don't ever assume anything.

 

Merry Christmas as well.

[Shin]

It's a fading star, this game.

But i am not quite ready to jump ship just yet. Have to find another ship first.

 

I just found another ship. I won't put up with this crap anymore. To quote someone way more known than me... "this sucks hairy donkeyballz".....

[JCrook1028]

So far i like a17 (beside optimizations), but i dont like the new stamina/health system, the A16 one was better.

 

I'm missing how much food an item gives, it just says max stamina and health.

 

The "food" value IS the max stamina value. Period. Food = Max Stamina. The decreasing black portion of the stamina bar IS your food level.

[Jackelmyer]

I have zero issues with stamina, and I've rolled new games every day for weeks on end. All you do is the starter quest, get your 4 points and you will level up shortly after so thats 5 points. 1 into Agility (an extra 10 stamina seems to help a ton) 1 into strength, 1 sexual trex to reduce melee stamina costs, 1 into master chef. 1 into cardio if you want, but I've been getting along great without it. Do not wear any armor. Next thing I do is look for ruins buildings because they have toilets that contain murky water, and old sinks which drop cooking pots, acid and short metal pipes, all which are needed. On the way punch (uses least stamina) every red flower you see and save for making red tea (which reduces stamina use)

 

Stop at every nest and collect feathers and eggs. If you see any game make sure to kill it, you don't know how long it will be before you see another animal. Even if its a wolf, craft some frames or jump on a rock or car and sneak arrow it for the first shot. They aren't very hard to kill just make sure they can't get to you by standing on something, or backpedal if you are confident. The red tea reduces stamina use for a little while. Char meat and eat it to keep topped off. You can eat the fat now too and its safe without cooking. Make bacon and eggs as soon as possible, its one of the most nourishing easy to make foods. Zero stamina or hunger issues playing this way.

 

 

Madmole... I'd urge you to consider playing a whole day without putting points into those perks. You were a major role in creating the skill system. The average player, did not. A person's first play through will almost certainly not follow the template you've described above. Not every one will know or remember what red flowers are for. Know where and what all skills will give them those stamina gains. So I don't think the average player is going to start out with A17 going "Yeah, stamina isn't a problem.".

 

So... Was it your intention to force people into a stamina skill expenditure early on in a play through? If so, that's fine, but perhaps the Starting Quests should include a quest line exactly like what you have stated above. Direct people to spend a skill point into those things and refund a skill point. But at least that way, people are directed to the paths right from the start, to help them overcome, what otherwise, will make the game tedious and really not so fun.

[LuckyStar]

Shouldn't this be un-stickied now since Stable has been released.

 

Just saying.

 

[ruler160]

My thoughts after 2800 hrs want my loot back from zombies books su3k have to grind up level 20 for a forge level 40 cement give me a break cant even find them in houses anymore. Killing zombies is all your are suppose to do now taken away the loot was whos idea. Do like the houses and quests but after going thru a few it loses the appeal and what is with the 7 day hordes they just stop before dawn AND I MISS MY LOOTING!!!!!!!!!!

[StrawberryWitch]

After playing a bit more I'm finding there are too many wolves. This is a zombie game, and over half of my trader quest to fetch/clear have been swarming with wolves and dire wolves. I'm talking 3 dire wolves in one house at one time. Granted I am playing on Warrior. Is that the issue?

 

PS: Granted I have an overflow of meat. Nearing three stacks on day 12.

[TheRancidGoat]

I like the new visuals though there isn't enough difference to offset the bad with the bad being:

 

-excessively harsh stamina drain (as someone who is ex forces who frequently hikes 20+ miles on ONE MEAL, I find that having to micromanage my character with food and drink in excessive amounts JUST to be able to move around and hit stuff to be beyond tedious).

- I really enjoyed finding bits of guns and having to assemble them & combine them in order to bed/borrow/steal the best weapon I could to be a really fun aspect of the game. When I discovered that this had been removed, I was more than a little disappointed.

- The apparent obsession with sticking everything behind perks & level requirements. I was able to boil a £$%^ing egg at 8 years old. You have to be REALLY pedantic to stick something like that behind a "skill" ffs. To my mind, this is one of those stupid software design mistakes that should have evoked a "no, we're not doing that. Don't be an idiot" response from management. Far more fun: recipes (either as drops / books in libraries / bookshelves or vendor items. Hell, people in the real world do really well GUESSING recipes for pitys sake...

- Vehicle controls (esp gyrocopter). Please, for the love of God, let me volunteer to work on the gyrocopter flight system. As a pilot of nearly 30 years, let me tell you that gyrocopters really, REALLY don't fly that badly. They are in fact rather nimble / agile and fun....everything that the 7DTD gyro isn't, basically.

- The developers should ask themselves a couple of really basic questions. Like: on a scale of 1 to 10 how unbelievably pissed off would a lumberjack be if he/she had to stop every 10 seconds whilst chopping down a tree. THEN ask themselves: do people REALLY want to have to do that in their recreation time?! The game was grindy enough BEFORE A17 hit...now its just as grindy...but forces significant - boring - periods of waiting on its players. The same is true for all harvesting / collection.

 

The A17 update dropped for me late last night, after I'd been away for most of the day doing christmas shopping. So the "fun pimps" Christmas present to me was to take away a game that I rather enjoyed and replace it with something that just isn't fun; effectively making them the killjoy pimps.

 

I've played A17 for only a day and I dread to think what the earlier experimental versions were like. As things stand, I don't find it fun and will find something else to play for a few months and check back then to see if things have improved any. I know some people like the new version, but to me it's simply tedious, irritating, frustrating, restrictive beyond reason and very, very grindy. Yes, in the real world we have "challenges" but for most of us, we don't WANT our recreation time to be such a ball-ache.

[Thorne]

After playing a bit more I'm finding there are too many wolves. This is a zombie game, and over half of my trader quest to fetch/clear have been swarming with wolves and dire wolves. I'm talking 3 dire wolves in one house at one time. Granted I am playing on Warrior. Is that the issue?

 

PS: Granted I have an overflow of meat. Nearing three stacks on day 12.

My brother and I took down no less than a dozen bears in one house the other day, and we determined that it was the result of playing on a game/map started in a previous version. Might want to restart. That's not normal.

[monch511]

After playing a bit more I'm finding there are too many wolves. This is a zombie game, and over half of my trader quest to fetch/clear have been swarming with wolves and dire wolves. I'm talking 3 dire wolves in one house at one time. Granted I am playing on Warrior. Is that the issue?

 

PS: Granted I have an overflow of meat. Nearing three stacks on day 12.

 

I was getting something similar when playing a b231/b238 build with the b240 update. Most of the sleepers were spawning in as wolves. A fresh start fixed it.