Perks System and Level Gates

[pahbi]

I have a hybrid proposal:

 

Bring back the books with recipes.

 

Use the new xp gating system as a form of bad luck protection.

 

Folks might get lucky while exploring and find a book and learn something quickly. But players don't have to be discouraged if they don't find a book right away, because in time, the new XP system will give them the recipe eventually anyways.

 

- P

[Voqar]

I think the A17 systems destroys the A16 system. A16 system was too cheesy and encouraged garbage like crafting/salvaging loops to cheese xp. Or as my one friend would do, just get an auger and dig pointless tunnels for easy speed leveling. Cheese with cheese sauce on top.

 

If you're playing a zombie survival game then, duh, you're going to need to kill zombies, and killing zombies should be where you get most of your xp, not from busting grass with your fist or crafting scores of clubs per day, or from chopping down trees, or for digging a subway with an auger. There is ZERO risk or challenge in the crafting or gathering grind - you do not deserve tons of xp for doing what is essentially nothing.

 

I'm fine with the gating. It's not that hard to level up in this game - just play and it happens. It's less of a gate and more of a mild speed bump.

 

It saddens me how many people are resistant to change. Why play early access games if you don't understand development, iteration, change, progress? Stick with released games and you'll be less unhappy. Maybe. Probably not.

 

My only problem with the A17 system is that you can't get steel until 60 but you can unlock a lot of stuff that requires steel well before that - which seems kinda wonky. That could be better organized/presented so you don't pick up things you can't use til 60.

 

IMO, people who just want to be superman and play the game likes it's a pertty minecraft variant should probably just go play minecraft (seriously, modded minecraft destroys all others when it comes to purely crafting/building/and being ridiculously powerful with low/no risks).

[HerrKingsley]

Or they could have nerfed the augers.

[Royal Deluxe]

I prefer how level gates are implemented now

 

28 Votes

The fun Pimp team is that large ?

 

 

I liked A15 and A16 more than the currnt A17.

BUT

Besides the far to weak startchar and far to strong endgame char, The current balance is not that bad.

No really big exploits.

Make stage 5 of most skills level 200 but give 15 additional startpoints and it should be fine

[Guppycur]

Nope. Salty Tear Jars shall remain ungated so that even those with a post count of 1 can continue to craft them.

 

But instead of being made of glass they are now just made of sand. The intermediate step seemed unnecessary....

 

#bringbackglass

[beHypE]

I think the A17 systems destroys the A16 system. A16 system was too cheesy and encouraged garbage like crafting/salvaging loops to cheese xp. Or as my one friend would do, just get an auger and dig pointless tunnels for easy speed leveling. Cheese with cheese sauce on top.

 

If you're playing a zombie survival game then, duh, you're going to need to kill zombies, and killing zombies should be where you get most of your xp, not from busting grass with your fist or crafting scores of clubs per day, or from chopping down trees, or for digging a subway with an auger. There is ZERO risk or challenge in the crafting or gathering grind - you do not deserve tons of xp for doing what is essentially nothing.

 

I'm fine with the gating. It's not that hard to level up in this game - just play and it happens. It's less of a gate and more of a mild speed bump.

 

It saddens me how many people are resistant to change. Why play early access games if you don't understand development, iteration, change, progress? Stick with released games and you'll be less unhappy. Maybe. Probably not.

 

IMO, people who just want to be superman and play the game likes it's a pertty minecraft variant should probably just go play minecraft (seriously, modded minecraft destroys all others when it comes to purely crafting/building/and being ridiculously powerful with low/no risks).

 

I get it buddy, you're all sold on the new version and everyone who isn't is resistant to change. How can I even counter that argument, it's so perfect ?

Oh, let me try, point by point.

 

About A16's chain crafting. First of all, I've never done it. I can understand it breaks PvP servers, but I only play with buddies of mine, and we never cheesed. So while A17 fixes this, it doesn't fix anything for me, and probably doesn't fix anything for a lot of other people. Just because there's a way to ruin the leveling phase doesn't mean you have to use it, right ? What about if your friend actually didn't auger sand blocks for easy levels and played the game instead ? And there would probably have been a dozen ways to actually nerf chain-crafting without totally removing exp gain by practice... level gating just happened to be the one being chosen, and we're discussing the fact it might not have been the best. Oh by the way, we should probably remove god mode because it totally breaks the game since you can fly and spawn any item day 1. /s

 

Regarding your second paragraph... subjective, and to each their own. I'd rather gain EXP in mining skills while mining than while killing zombies because... it makes sense, you know ? Obviously killing zombies is a part of the game, but should it be the allmighty way to level up ? I don't think so.

 

As far as the gating goes... no, it isn't "hard". Yes, "i'll eventually get there". But it's boring and has a static pace, and THAT is what we are criticizing. In every playthrough i'll ever play, i'll have a forge level 20, Steel level 60, and so on. No more randomness, no more early game made easier by a lucky book find, no more mid game scavenging like a madman because I can't find the minibike book. Everything is unlocked, in every game, at the exact same time in my character's progression. Can I decide not to unlock the forge by level 20 but wait 'til level 25 "to change it up" ? Sure, but there's still no randomness, only pure choice and planification. And well, to put it bluntly... 7dtd character's progression isn't exactly what is making the game stand out in comparison to other games. What was really different is how looting random containers was affecting your character's progression in a totally different way with each new playthrough.

 

For the last two sentences... what can I even say. Thinking everybody that is against the level gating solely rejects the concept because he wants to be a powerhouse day 1 is... too easy and almost insulting. If anything I love the fact that I feel like a caveman longer than in previous Alpha's. What I dislike is knowing exactly when i'm gonna advance to the next "stage" of the game because that allmighty level cap is reached (be it 20, 30, 40 or 60).

 

Please get off your high horse thinking everybody who doesn't agree has a simplistic way of thinking and can't or just won't adapt. If anything I think you're the one not fully grasping all that is induced by static level gating, don't turn this around and act like we don't want it because we don't want the game to change. I want it to change, but for the better, and right now I don't feel it has in all the aspects previously mentioned.

[Royal Deluxe]

....

If you're playing a zombie survival game then, duh, you're going to need to kill zombies, and killing zombies should be where you get most of your xp, ... There is ZERO risk or challenge in the crafting or gathering grind -

 

Or by killing zombies

(before we have that discussion here again, no need for a molotov)

 

 

Btw Mining killed me 4 times, thats arround 50% of my deaths, i died until now, cant rememer a death by a zombie

[Corbit]

I think the A17 systems destroys the A16 system. A16 system was too cheesy and encouraged garbage like crafting/salvaging loops to cheese xp. Or as my one friend would do, just get an auger and dig pointless tunnels for easy speed leveling. Cheese with cheese sauce on top.

 

If you're playing a zombie survival game then, duh, you're going to need to kill zombies, and killing zombies should be where you get most of your xp, not from busting grass with your fist or crafting scores of clubs per day, or from chopping down trees, or for digging a subway with an auger. There is ZERO risk or challenge in the crafting or gathering grind - you do not deserve tons of xp for doing what is essentially nothing.

 

I'm fine with the gating. It's not that hard to level up in this game - just play and it happens. It's less of a gate and more of a mild speed bump.

 

It saddens me how many people are resistant to change. Why play early access games if you don't understand development, iteration, change, progress? Stick with released games and you'll be less unhappy. Maybe. Probably not.

 

My only problem with the A17 system is that you can't get steel until 60 but you can unlock a lot of stuff that requires steel well before that - which seems kinda wonky. That could be better organized/presented so you don't pick up things you can't use til 60.

 

IMO, people who just want to be superman and play the game likes it's a pertty minecraft variant should probably just go play minecraft (seriously, modded minecraft destroys all others when it comes to purely crafting/building/and being ridiculously powerful with low/no risks).

 

I don't think the old system was fully realised and could have been improved to a point where most where happy. Pretty sure I still had more choice in how I gained xp though. I am sure that even when they tweak the xp gains, there will always be one way above all to gain xp faster. Good luck to them trying to balance that.

 

So I should have to kill zombies to gain xp to become better at mining? Cooking? Everything currently? Didn't you only get better at the thing you were doing in a16?

 

If you are trying to survive in a world full of zombies, you don't go out and do the one thing that is likely to get you killed. The problem isn't with having to kill zombies, its with it being the only way to level up. Once they adjust the xp gains for stuff maybe its not gonna be much of issue. Wheres the risk in killing zombies in a17? You die and get a boring debuff to some attributes and thats it? Previously you lost wellness and had to work to gain it back. You were forced to learn and change how you play if you died constantly otherwise you are stuck on low wellness and died very easy.

 

The reason I am against this new perk system is purely because it doesn't add or improve the gameplay at all, it has removed more than its added. No more joy in finding that schematic, that working forge in a house. Instead of listening to all these people who want things unlocked in a specific time frame, why not just add more interesting and fun ways to get those things? Where is the fun in knowing you're guaranteed to get the things you need? There is no survival when everything is planned out for you and a perk removes all the risk (see Parkour and all recovery perks)

 

Always thought steel was far to easy to make, should take longer to produce, require coal and anything you make with it should take longer. No level gate required at all.

[Kage848]

They just revamped the economy system to make it less broken and that will be in the next update.

 

My guess is that you will see it as more "player punishing"

 

Big talk. My trader has had very little I want. There's no where to go but up lol.

 

Also what's with the obsession for devs to make changes that "punish" players? Dont you want your players to have fun? 🤔

[WolfyBlah]

Big talk. My trader has had very little I want. There's no where to go but up lol.

 

Also what's with the obsession for devs to make changes that "punish" players? Dont you want your players to have fun? 🤔

 

Please dont sink down to rolands level kage, its bad enough that the game DOES currently punish one playstyle choice over another without the moderators and now you making light of it.

[Moldy Bread]

Wow, more people agreed with me then I thought. Yea, learning how to boil an egg by killing zombies? And they say weapon parts were unrealistic...

[Roland]

28 Votes

The fun Pimp team is that large ?

 

I appreciate your joke that the only people who voted they like it is the Fun Pimp staff. But misquoting me like that is very misleading since I have posted that I do not in fact like how they are currently implemented. Following the link back to the post you used shows that I did not say that and in fact have never said that.

 

I actually voted I prefer no level gates but since voting have rethunk my position and I do think that a mild form of level gating can be good. But I left my vote as is since it's moot. They will not be giving up on level gates although they will be working to get them balanced and working with each other better.

[Royal Deluxe]

ohh sorry if that looked this way.

I edited the quote.

Must have over seen it because of all that froozen perspiration in my encumbered eyes

[giKoN]

Given the three options regarding level gates I decided to vote for "no level gates at all". Even though - I do think there should be level gates.

 

But: I prefer how level gates are implemented now - I definitely don't since everything is double gated and the gates don't really have logical interdependency.

 

I prefer adjusting the gates up to lower levels but keeping them - no. its not about how easy they are to breach.

 

I prefer no level gates at all. - this comes the closest to what I would like. I do think some certain milestones should unlock a certain amount of additional perks - but more precisely - i do think that milestones from learning by doing should enable you to learn more complex recipes etc.

 

I mean - as a teenager I read a lot of recipes to cook for myself when my parents weren't home - i'd screw them up and eat pizza. But by cooking the easier things more and more often I was able to understand what the more complex recipes actually meant and how the food is cooked. So now I'm far better at it (before I order a pizza).

 

My other votes:

a) combination of points & autoincrease

b) Wellness from actively taking care of your body (food & vitamines)

c) discussed above

d) no answer since I like both and its the easiest thing to mod during a running game if you end up not liking having too few points. Being able to achieve everything might however kill individualization - so i'd rather start with too few points and then increase as easy fix with complaints.

[LuckyStar]

Still prefer a Hybrid.

 

Learn by doing and also level gates.

 

There's a nice balance somewhere over the rainbow... way up high....

 

 

[StompyNZ]

Level gating is the only thing I have modded so far because it is just that bad

 

Removed all level gates from attributes and gave 5 pts per level, with increasing cost per level. I find that plays so much better

[Roland]

Please dont sink down to rolands level kage, its bad enough that the game DOES currently punish one playstyle choice over another without the moderators and now you making light of it.

 

My level is bliss. More people should come to my level and just enjoy the ride of development. I've gotten my money's worth from PLAYING the various versions of this game and now my enjoyment is seeing where the developers go next. Sure there are things that I don't agree with but I point them out calmly and then leave it in the hands of the developers. Nobody was more disappointed than I when ziplines were dropped but it's not worth making a scene over or acting outraged and treating something planned as something promised to me personally.

 

I invite everyone to join me and relax and joke around a bit. It's all in good fun unless you've set this game or certain features up as some sort of a sacred golden calf. If you've said your piece and seen others agree and there's lots of support for what you want then you've done all you can so stop crying about stuff and looking to be offended and look for positives instead. The devs are aware of the major hot topics and they'll either change it the way you like or they won't.

 

Contrary to conspiracy theorists they NEVER feel pressured to make changes by any small loud and abnoxious and yet strangely super influential faction of the player base. They take into consideration the feedback but ultimately design what THEY want in their game and they are supremely copacetic with those who hate it deciding to mod it the way they want or to move along to another game. It is the natural behavior of gamers in the wild, after all, to eventually move on. Only with games like this one do we see people stating they're quitting after 3000 hrs of entertainment and trying to cast it as though it's a bad thing....

 

 

[Roland]

Level gating is the only thing I have modded so far because it is just that bad

 

Removed all level gates from attributes and gave 5 pts per level, with increasing cost per level. I find that plays so much better

 

So the attribute gates for perks is still in place and it is only the attribute tiers themselves that cost more to purchase?

[PoppaTot]

My level is bliss. More people should come to my level and just enjoy the ride of development. I've gotten my money's worth from PLAYING the various versions of this game and now my enjoyment is seeing where the developers go next. Sure there are things that I don't agree with but I point them out calmly and then leave it in the hands of the developers. Nobody was more disappointed than I when ziplines were dropped but it's not worth making a scene over or acting outraged and treating something planned as something promised to me personally.

 

I invite everyone to join me and relax and joke around a bit. It's all in good fun unless you've set this game or certain features up as some sort of a sacred golden calf. If you've said your piece and seen others agree and there's lots of support for what you want then you've done all you can so stop crying about stuff and looking to be offended and look for positives instead. The devs are aware of the major hot topics and they'll either change it the way you like or they won't.

 

Contrary to conspiracy theorists they NEVER feel pressured to make changes by any small loud and abnoxious and yet strangely super influential faction of the player base. They take into consideration the feedback but ultimately design what THEY want in their game and they are supremely copacetic with those who hate it deciding to mod it the way they want or to move along to another game. It is the natural behavior of gamers in the wild, after all, to eventually move on. Only with games like this one do we see people stating they're quitting after 3000 hrs of entertainment and trying to cast it as though it's a bad thing....

 

 

I agree with everything you've said except for what I've bolded, and that I do atleast partially agree. I too tend to get a bit personal with things I have no control over, but I think that is just human nature. Some do it more, some do it less.... so on, and so forth. I just need to step back for a breather sometimes and then it's okie-dokie again lol. Now, with the bolded section. I agree that 3k+ hours into a game is definitely getting your money's worth, but it is always a bad thing when those hardcore players decide to leave based on decisions of devs. I look at it like this, those people put almost half a calendar year of their lives into playing a product that you put out, now they are leaving and stating a game that was fun to them for that long is "no longer fun". That should atleast raise some red flags whether they are right or wrong is debatable. But as you said, the devs know the hot topics and will adjust (or not) as they see fit.

[Guppycur]

/ not \

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Nm

[PoppaTot]

/ not \

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Nm

 

Fixed, I'm dumb sometimes. If you've ever seen the movie Camp Nowhere, there is a line that has stuck with me since childhood.

 

"Just because I'm smart doesn't mean I can't act stupid"

 

lmao

[Numberz]

Level gating is the only thing I have modded so far because it is just that bad

 

Removed all level gates from attributes and gave 5 pts per level, with increasing cost per level. I find that plays so much better

 

The skill_point_multiplier also still works even though it is no longer documented in the progression file.

[ivailogeimara]

What to vote if I want for example most of the A17 system but the main attributes to be leveled by doing? There is no such option. The choice is between A16 system that sux (Craft 99999 stone axes (yeah!!!!!! very fun) or shoot 3000 pistol rounds then shoot 3000 ak rounds because you are only good with pistols and not riffles (kinda realistic but not good for a game)) and A17 system that some parts of it sux (main attributes being leveled by points) but for the most part is OK.

Maybe A16 system has better modding potential (I don't remember. Haven't played it for 6 months.). I guess I'll vote for that.

[giKoN]

What to vote if I want for example most of the A17 system but the main attributes to be leveled by doing? There is no such option. The choice is between A16 system that sux (Craft 99999 stone axes (yeah!!!!!! very fun) or shoot 3000 pistol rounds then shoot 3000 ak rounds because you are only good with pistols and not riffles (kinda realistic but not good for a game)) and A17 system that some parts of it sux (main attributes being leveled by points) but for the most part is OK.

Maybe A16 system has better modding potential (I don't remember. Haven't played it for 6 months.). I guess I'll vote for that.

 

A16 had no spamcrafting already. Which was healthy for servers and performance. On the gun skills I agree with you however.

[Corbit]

What to vote if I want for example most of the A17 system but the main attributes to be leveled by doing? There is no such option. The choice is between A16 system that sux (Craft 99999 stone axes (yeah!!!!!! very fun) or shoot 3000 pistol rounds then shoot 3000 ak rounds because you are only good with pistols and not riffles (kinda realistic but not good for a game)) and A17 system that some parts of it sux (main attributes being leveled by points) but for the most part is OK.

Maybe A16 system has better modding potential (I don't remember. Haven't played it for 6 months.). I guess I'll vote for that.

 

 

I would argue that although crafting all those stone axes wasn't great, at least there was some gameplay involved. You still have to collect the materials for them. You were rewarded for doing it.

 

How about making those stone axes give 0 xp after a certain point, same with iron. How about merging tools into the same skill as melee weapons giving you more options to level the skill. Have steel require coal to produce and steel tools take a long time to make (20mins, you can go do something else while they are crafting), the higher your skill the quicker they craft using less resources. Repairing tools removes durability but not performance, tool eventually breaks. Anyone can make an iron or steel tools/weapons, without increasing the skill it takes them longer, uses more resources and the tool/weapon isn't quite as good. If you aren't wanting to increase that skill you will most likely be benefiting from other skills.

 

In a17, how many bullets/arrows would you have fired to get level 100 and the max gun skills?