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please don't cater to the HC crowd


wolfhorse

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I'd say it'd be better to cater to the casuals as they are the largest percentage of the playerbase, and just let the hardcore crowd mod the game to be as hard as they want it to be. You'll keep the largest number of people happy this way, and since the devs support modding you can always mod it to be much harder.

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I'd say it'd be better to cater to the casuals as they are the largest percentage of the playerbase, and just let the hardcore crowd mod the game to be as hard as they want it to be. You'll keep the largest number of people happy this way, and since the devs support modding you can always mod it to be much harder.

 

Because Dark Souls wasn’t a popular game at all.

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For those arguing about how hard it is....

 

Why can we not just please both sides? Ramp up the spawn rates/zombie toughness for the higher levels and the opposite for lower difficulty levels? I would have thought doing something like that would be really easy for the developers? Why should people have to mod either way? Remember a lot of your consumers will probably never mod the game/don't know how to.

 

Playing on easy should essentially be a bit of a cakewalk and should let new players/lesser skilled gamers get used to how the game works and not continuously punish them for not being very adept. At the moment, easy is actually pretty tough, too tough in fact. Heres an example:

 

I used to play some Alpha 16 with the girlfriend. Now I'm not the most skilled gamer, I'm just a casual one who likes to have fun. However she is pretty useless, but don't tell her I said that :distrust:. She could just about manage normal difficulty in A16 because you didnt have to go and kill zombies all day, in addition to the fact that they were a bit easier to kill.

Her role would be tending base, cooking food, farming, a bit of building/painting etc...

Meanwhile I would go out and loot and wouldn't have to worry too much about her. It was great fun, I'd come back with many presents and she'd have bacon and eggs ready for me with a beer.

Now though, she's completely restricted in what she can do, theres not much point building a base anyway as most of it will just be destroyed, and she has no choice but to go out and kill zombies if she wants XP/skills and perks. Needless to say, she is not very good at killing zombies. It has led to many frustrating games where shes dying ALOT.

Its got to the point where shes lost interest and just doesn't want to play anymore as its too hard.

 

Why can't TFP cater to both people like her and people who have many hours of experience? I can't play A17 with her anymore, I can't play it with my little nephew because they're just getting frustrated and bored of constantly having to kill zombies and constantly dying.

 

Although I do like some features of A17, alot of it has just left me sat here thinking.....seriously?

 

I've had

- zombies spawn in thin air in front of me

- zombies taking several close range shots from shotguns

- zombies shrugging off headshots

- pigs shrugging off bullets

- wolf packs on day 1

- floating trees

- unhittable trees

- items with no picture

- placeholder items

- punching after placing an object

- backpacks falling through the world

- supply crates falling through the world

 

(those previous 2 resulted in 2 or 3 deaths in quick succession while trying to retrieve my valuable loots, which i never got back)

 

I know somebody will just come back at me and say "Oh but its in alpha, its in experimental blah blah blah"

I know it is.

 

It feels like alot of freedom has been taken away from the game. I really want to enjoy the update, but if I do want to play it, its going to be solo and tbh, its too hard.

Why does it matter how some people play? If someone likes building bases, let them.

If they like cooking, let them.

If they like chopping down trees, let them.

 

And for the people talking about 'gamestages':

Alot of players will have no clue about this. Me included. I don't really understand what it is, but it sounds like cheating/exploiting the game mechanics to make things easier. How is that any different to digging down to bedrock to cheese the zombie AI?

 

I like to loot and build and I feel like thats really been taken away from me.

 

I think the general opinion of the complainers is "give us the option to play how we want!" and I feel inclined to agree...

 

But hey, hopefully things will be addressed! I will stick with it nonetheless.

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Although I do like some features of A17, alot of it has just left me sat here thinking.....seriously?

 

I've had

- zombies spawn in thin air in front of me

- zombies taking several close range shots from shotguns

- zombies shrugging off headshots

- pigs shrugging off bullets

- wolf packs on day 1

- floating trees

- unhittable trees

- items with no picture

- placeholder items

- punching after placing an object

- backpacks falling through the world

- supply crates falling through the world

 

(those previous 2 resulted in 2 or 3 deaths in quick succession while trying to retrieve my valuable loots, which i never got back)

 

I know somebody will just come back at me and say "Oh but its in alpha, its in experimental blah blah blah"

I know it is.

 

So, those are not "features" and the answer really is "its in experimental." Lumping that in with disliked design changes is a poor choice on your part.

 

As for the rest, the answer is "TFP will make the game that TFP wants." Dislike it all you want, but it is what it is.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I'm sorry for the dismissing & ♥♥♥♥ you're about to get from the forum regulars.

 

Happy to oblige.

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Actually, by focusing on leveling up as quickly as you can you are the one pushing the arms race and increasing the difficulty of blood moon faster than you can keep up. You are inflating your gamestage. If you would do some of those other activities that bring in less xp but help your ability to survive then your gamestage will stay lower longer and you’ll find yourself in a better position to fight. You definitely are never forced to hunt zombies and by doing so just to level up faster you are engineering your own demise.

 

Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

 

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.

 

Dude, look at what you are arguing here: you're saying that playing as efficiently as possible, with good game knowledge and good choices, (which will gain you levels), SHOULD result in being punished by OP enemies, and that this is somehow the PLAYERS' fault?

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@Rest: Rubbish. If I can play without regard to xp efficiency farming then I can expect others to do the same. All this talk of the game forcing them to level up by only killing zombies is laughable. It’s great that the devs plan to balance it better but even after that the choice to find the new best method of leveling up quickly if it isn’t still killing zombies is still just a choice.

 

It is rubbish to all "Dead is Dead" Players. Otherwise, pushing exp has no downside. You died? Who cares!

It's when I started encountering Feral Wights on Day 7, is when I realized I had made a mistake by being too "successful". The concept of throttling your exp growth is a potent concept that should be considered by all "Dead is Dead" players.

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Neither was minecraft

 

Not in dispute. The poster was making it seem like hardcore players are a small group or that games which are geared toward them are unsuccessful.

 

Dude, look at what you are arguing here: you're saying that playing as efficiently as possible, with good game knowledge and good choices, (which will gain you levels), SHOULD result in being punished by OP enemies, and that this is somehow the PLAYERS' fault?

 

He didn't argue that it should result in that, merely that it would.

 

Also, "good" choices kind of depends on your goal.

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Not in dispute. The poster was making it seem like hardcore players are a small group or that games which are geared toward them are unsuccessful.

 

Gotcha.... still the success of one franchise doesn't disprove the statement that hardcore players are a small group.

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Gotcha.... still the success of one franchise doesn't disprove the statement that hardcore players are a small group.

 

True, but I figured it was at least as good a point as the unfounded claim "casual players are the largest percentage of the player base."

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Because doing so has enabled me to get a reinforced concrete horde base by day 21 whilst still on only level 35, I have a bicycle. Still got things like a sniper rifle and 50 rounds, compound bow, and some mods for my club. By levelling in the mining perks I've got a tonne of resources. But the main thing I've had is time to gather them and build something solid..

 

Not to brag but I have a Steel base, a motorbike, a level 5 Sniper rifle with 4 mods and 1000 rounds and a similar Shotgun with even more rounds, and all Steel armour again level 5 and fully modded. I have no need to use Bows (or clubs). Whose next horde night is going to be toughest? Yours I'll wager. I am level 68, on day 18. Various gates I passed (level 40, 50 and 60) has increased my survivability and firepower over yours in a non-linear fashion.

 

For the record, if I were to die right now and you don't and assuming you haven't died at all and that we are playing on the same difficulty, your gamestage would currently be very similar to mine. So your horde would be harder.

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Gotcha.... still the success of one franchise doesn't disprove the statement that hardcore players are a small group.

 

Its depends on what you consider hardcore is.

 

For me:

It could be playing a game over 1000 hours.

It could be always playing at the hardest settings.

I would say Paradox Gaming caters to Hardcore gamers as most of their games are too difficult for casual players. They succeed because those gamers will regularly open their wallets and plop down over $100 for one game.

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Its depends on what you consider hardcore is.

It could be playing a game over 1000 hours.

It could be always playing at the hardest settings.

I would say Paradox Gaming caters to Hardcore gamers as most of their games are too difficult for casual players. They succeed because those gamers will regularly open their wallets and plop down over $100 for one game.

 

Well, I think it was clear what was meant by hardcore.... your second example, not your first.

 

I have over 3k hours in 7 days, but generally play on average to lower difficulty so I would never consider myself hardcore.

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Obviously hard core vs. casual players' desires are always hard to reconcile. The only thing I think they can do that won't alienate anyone is to increase the range of the scale so the bottom is easier and the top is even more challenging. Arguing over the "right way" to play the game is counterproductive.

 

This is experimental, so we should expect it to be less than perfect. Honestly I'm surprised it's as good as it is.

 

Changing the skill system to one where so much is level gated has hugely impacted the progression. TFP need a chance to tune it based on our feedback. And I expect respectful well thought out feedback will be more accepted than tantrums, hyperbole and flaming.

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Hmm.... Well... Many in our group are "Wanna-Be Hard Core players" lol They talk the talk, but only a few of us can actually walk the walk.

A16.4 has Starvation for the HC players. I got them to start playing Starvation, but they quickly saw the reality of that Mod LOL! We started another map just after release of A17... And one of the wanna-beez was screaming like a namby-pamby baby last night! It was his first time playing. We all were rolling all over the place! GREAT FUN! But yes, there are a tonne of things that we consider issues, but the game in its default settings seem to be for 'everyone' as we experienced last night.

 

I agree with Roland in that if you 'level up quickly' you've got to own up to the fact that you'll get the 'hard core zeds' after you as I've experienced first hand! Within about 15 IRL minutes I got two wandering hordes of 20 zeds or more a piece. Then much later, the next day right before I got to the traitor to get my reward a pack of +10 zed dogs?!? Luckily for me - just before entering the traitor' they 'disbersed and were slowly wondering around so I jumped the fence in back... I'm like level 21 or more now and its just before horde night for us. I know I'll have to go off on my own and I'm fine with that because now everyone else has #3 iron tools! lol And I think I've figured out a way to deal with the horde! But that will probably have to wait till later in the week.

 

Let us not forget that 'this is basically a new game' as of A17... So there is a learning curve here, which would make the game seem a bit harder than it would 'normally' be...

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So, those are not "features" and the answer really is "its in experimental." Lumping that in with disliked design changes is a poor choice on your part.

 

As for the rest, the answer is "TFP will make the game that TFP wants." Dislike it all you want, but it is what it is.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Happy to oblige.

 

 

I think you were the one who just lumped it in mate.

 

I didn't specifically say that list was 'features'. I said 'although i do like some of the new features, some things have left me thinking...wow' and then i gave a list of some bugs/issues I've had. I know others have had the same issues crop up too. Maybe the wording wasnt clear enough. I dunno, its been a long couple of days, but I'm sure a person of your intellect would be able to figure that out sir!

 

So let me be a little more clear for you. I like the new graphical overhaul. On my machine at least it looks great. Sure, its no AAA game, but its a huge improvement. I like the new house designs, the new items, I even (in part) like the perk system. I just feel it does need a bit more freedom/needs to be a bit more seamless. There are several other small things that I like too. I wont go on.

 

Those issues in that list were just personal bugs I've had my friend, I went on to say I'm aware its experimental/alpha and I'm sure things will be ironed out, which you then felt the need to echo. You seem to ignore the fact that without people reporting bugs/issues, they wont be fixed or addressed.

 

I also stated that I was enjoying some parts of the update and I will keep trying to enjoy more. I didn't say anywhere that I wholly disliked it...in fact, in the very part of my post you quoted, I said I liked some of the new features. Again, thats an assumption you have jumped to.

 

So I think your post presuming and assuming my thoughts on the game was a bad choice on your part. In addition, giving people ♥♥♥♥ because they list a couple of negative things is a bit dumb. Its like you're taking personal offence? I don't really know what your problem is. All you're doing is adding fuel to the fire.

 

I even said at the end in a positive manner that I'm sure some things will be sorted and I am prepared to stick with it!!

 

How about adding something constructive to the discussion? Share your experience with the difficulty? Have you encountered any issues? Do you play with any friends/family/partners that maybe struggle? If so, are they still playing? And if they are, what are they doing to enjoy the game now?

 

I'm sorry if my wording might be a little off, I've had early starts and long days at work. I'm tired, but I still find time to play a game I enjoy and I only want to see it get better.

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Well, this thread is done; b108 nerfed the game, catering to every complaint.

 

...b108, the "pussification update."

 

...guess the next thread in a few weeks will be "Please make the game harder; I learned how to play a17 and now it's too easy", ironically, by the same folks who complained...

 

Glad I can mod most of the challenges back in.

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