please don't cater to the HC crowd

[JaxTeller718]

Why is it SO wrong for the OP to want the game the way they want it? Why can’t you turn the difficulty up and mod your game so that things spawn ... more?

 

Because I HAVE been doing that for three years.

 

Its his turn.

[secateurs]

Agree with OP.

 

In this version the grind is interminable, bases are nonviable and the fun is mostly gone. I don't think these changes were all as intended by Joel but through all the feedback there has been a mob of browbeaters who like the suck and tell us that 10 hours to get a forge is fine.

[Sawth77]

Agree with OP.

 

In this version the grind is interminable, bases are nonviable and the fun is mostly gone. I don't think these changes were all as intended by Joel but through all the feedback there has been a mob of browbeaters who like the suck and tell us that 10 hours to get a forge is fine.

 

Honestly, i'm fine with punishing difficulty and not getting the forge right off the bat. Most of the people who agree with that just think that getting a forge running 10 minutes into the game and having the best of everything well before day 7 seems a bit much. Some think things should be earned, or that it's *survival* and it shouldn't be cakewalk (at least, right at the very start). I understand and agree with most of that. I just started the "Freeton" map from the seed thread, and turned difficulty to Warrior/lowered drop rates/spread air drops to 7 days from 3, etc. If that seems to be too much i'll dial it back, but i genuinely *want* a challenge. Could go on, but you get the idea.

 

However...

 

I also think the OP was somewhat right. While some issues are going to be addressed in coming patches (at least, i'd hope so), i think the suggestions around the board about slider bars or selections to augment difficulty, spawn rates, and other things the OP is concerned about is the right thing to do. It gives people the option to play as casual, or as grueling, as they see fit and doesn't harm the experience overall. Everyone wins.

 

Right now, i'm just reserving my judgment on things until the current issues are addressed, but that's going to be a few weeks. In the meantime, i can just see how it goes and hope i don't have 4 bears and 4 dogs spawn as a wandering horde right outside my base..........

[Ld-airgrafix]

Yes i got a wolf horde, they made their way through a house to get to me, silent as well, trapping me in a tight spot. Me clearing out the house carefully and quietly was pointless. If i died because i fell through a floor into a pit of zombies, i wouldnt mind, but sending a wolf horde into a house on a 3rd day was a cheap shot by developers to make this game difficult.

[LordoftheMoo]

Yes i got a wolf horde, they made their way through a house to get to me, silent as well, trapping me in a tight spot. Me clearing out the house carefully and quietly was pointless. If i died because i fell through a floor into a pit of zombies, i wouldnt mind, but sending a wolf horde into a house on a 3rd day was a cheap shot by developers to make this game difficult.

 

Question, did you close up the hole you entered through?

[Ld-airgrafix]

Question, did you close up the hole you entered through?

 

You mean a mansion, with multiple entries, and a maze like layout, no, I didn't expect a bunch of intelligent wolves to come in silently, on 3rd day.

[LordoftheMoo]

OK. Yeah even in a16 I got into the habit of plugging open holes after more than a few of those obnoxious heat-seeking little girls followed me into a building and blindsided me. I later found it helps a lot with horde spawns (especially wolves). Single upgraded wood frames and a door or two = peace of mind.

[Ld-airgrafix]

OK. Yeah even in a16 I got into the habit of plugging open holes after more than a few of those obnoxious heat-seeking little girls followed me into a building and blindsided me. I later found it helps a lot with horde spawns (especially wolves). Single upgraded wood frames and a door or two = peace of mind.

 

It was just a looting session, didn't expect wolves indoors, to be honest, and if I did that to every building I visited, it would be a day wasted. but like I said, its a cheap trick by developers to try to make this game hard, its not like I had guns blazing and making so much noise to draw wolves into town. What is the point in playing the game, using melee, when you can have a random event like that to screw up your progression.

[LordoftheMoo]

It was just a looting session, didn't expect wolves indoors, to be honest, and if I did that to every building I visited, it would be a day wasted. but like I said, its a cheap trick by developers to try to make this game hard, its not like I had guns blazing and making so much noise to draw wolves into town. What is the point in playing the game, using melee, when you can have a random event like that to screw up your progression.

 

Oh, definitely, I much preferred the a16 "tangent approach" of hordes, where if you just quietly sat they'd miss you by like 20m (and then you could go farm them... but hey )

[secateurs]

i genuinely *want* a challenge.

 

So does *everyone*.

 

But an extended grind isn't a challenge, it's just very dull. Levelgates don't add challenge, if you can kill one zombie, you can kill 10 and a hundred and so forth, you can wait out a night on a disposable POI, you can wait out another 5 or 10. But it isn't fun.

 

The game should allow you to get ahead of the curve by making smart choices, looting dangerous POIs, getting lucky etc. But it doesn't. All it rewards is doing time.

[Bubbahotetp]

Oh, definitely, I much preferred the a16 "tangent approach" of hordes, where if you just quietly sat they'd miss you by like 20m (and then you could go farm them... but hey )

 

Seen exactly the same happen in a17, actually worse, they would just pop up 30m away and just spread out a little like a liquid and that was it. They weren't even moving anywhere, were neither on a tangential nor radial trajectory.

[Sawth77]

So does *everyone*.

 

But an extended grind isn't a challenge, it's just very dull. Levelgates don't add challenge, if you can kill one zombie, you can kill 10 and a hundred and so forth, you can wait out a night on a disposable POI, you can wait out another 5 or 10. But it isn't fun.

 

The game should allow you to get ahead of the curve by making smart choices, looting dangerous POIs, getting lucky etc. But it doesn't. All it rewards is doing time.

 

I disagree. There are plenty of people who are making complaints (not all, mind you) about the fact that they want things how they were, when stamina could basically last forever and everyone had steel tools and max guns before day 7. People who want forges 5 minutes after the game starts, because why not. Some people want it easy and coast to victory. It's not that there aren't legitimate concerns and reasons to make changes to what's been provided in a17 so far. But saying everyone wants a challenge is stretching credulity, i think.

 

The grind aspect though is completely subjective. Some parts of it, i think, are fun in some way or another. I personally like killing a ton of zombies. I also really like crafting (though i'm not a great builder, if we're being honest). It's not that i don't understand where you're coming from, but i also think that some things should be earned, not just given. We can adjust the xp for building vs kills, we can take about changing how gated skills work (though part of me likes it, and thinks people should have to at least make some effort to get the good stuff). But if i said the game was actually fun for me, and you don't think the same, does that make me wrong or just someone who enjoys what's offered?

 

I absolutely agree that the game should reward good choices, give better things based on risk/reward levels, and absolutely have a little luck involved in everything. But i likewise believe that those things shouldn't be available by the end of day 1, or in some cases even the first week or two. I just think some things should be earned, and effort should be exerted. I'd also absolutely support your choice to play differently, and i've mentioned earlier about having sliders, more options in game generation, etc so that every one of those things is manageable without having to mod the game.

[Royal Deluxe]

I think the difficulty itself is fine

 

But

* Skillpoints are really scarce the first 30 Levels most you need to spend in basics, in fact i am arround 20 too short now at lvl 42

Means you meet Fearals when your damage skills are mostly down

 

* Stamina is better now at 42 But the first 30 level are a nightmare. There is no way to make your character playing fluid

Instead you are simply ALLWAYS out of Stamina. Drunk over 50 Coffee until now and still spend much time by waiting for the bar. No need to say that yo are simply death if you normally would choose to escape, no way without stamina

 

* In A16 i/(we) asked for 8 more slots to make the game playable, sure we get tese more slots, and a encumber system. So the startgame you are even more restricted, leads for me to having Loot boxes all over the map. If you use all slots you will die and move with 1 Km/h!

Now with a bike i can carry my stuff and my issue is much smaller. And far later with a car and full skill i guess it will be a nice game

 

* and finally, Digging zombies.

Really, i have no idea how to build a base with them. Until now it looks at least so as if the normal zombies dont attack you if you dig underground during nights. But still the minimum of steelblocks i expect to need to buils a tower socket that can resist a later Bloodmoon horde is 864 and this is only a 3 thick wall arround a 5x5 room, 6 high. Means instead of building a tower as in A16 i have a small stone horde tower (that works because of cheesing the ai) and a small garden.

 

Thats the issues i see.

 

The sollutions i see this moment

* 15 Extra Skillpoints at start

* Coffee +Time +impact (only a idea need to check this)

* Tier 1 Bicycle at startgame/startequip

* Undestroyable Blocks to make a safe fundament for the non horde tower

 

 

 

BTW: The rest is fun so far. So in general, Good Job TFP

[Ghostlight]

The devs are working on balancing the POIs and zombie behavior. I don’t know if they are taking a look at the wandering hordes or blood moons just yet. If there aren’t immediate balance changes don’t give up hope. There are several more weeks of experimental to go. I would also seriously consider lowering the difficulty to adventurer. There are plenty of people who played on insane difficulty in A16 with very few deaths who are dying regularly on nomad. In my mind adventurer should be the default difficulty level.

 

This won't help the OP. His problem (and I completely agree with him) is that EVERYTHING in the game now revolves around Perks. This means that Experience is all that matters. Since doing activities doesn't increase anything about your character unless those activities happen to give Experience, the player is forced to perform those activities which give the most Experience. Right now, this is killing Zombies. Nothing else comes close. Easy difficulty or not, the OP is now forced to hunt down and kill zombies CONSTANTLY if he wants to level up and stay ahead of the arms race and horde night. This is garbage design.

[Royal Deluxe]

I like the lower XP for building

In A16 i was arround lvl 100 only by building.

Its hard to kill green zombies with a Bow

[secateurs]

I just think some things should be earned, and effort should be exerted.

 

Earned through grinding? Effort exerted kiting hundreds of zombies with beginner weapons?

[OzHawkeye]

This won't help the OP. His problem (and I completely agree with him) is that EVERYTHING in the game now revolves around Perks. This means that Experience is all that matters. Since doing activities doesn't increase anything about your character unless those activities happen to give Experience, the player is forced to perform those activities which give the most Experience. Right now, this is killing Zombies. Nothing else comes close. Easy difficulty or not, the OP is now forced to hunt down and kill zombies CONSTANTLY if he wants to level up and stay ahead of the arms race and horde night. This is garbage design.

 

As mentioned, TFP is looking into the relative settings of XP returns for various activities. I think it's pretty clear that, right now, zombie kills are, relative to other options, OP for XP. The extra-balance trick will be in deciding whether Zombie XP gets lowered, or other activity XP gets increased....

[Sawth77]

Earned through grinding? Effort exerted kiting hundreds of zombies with beginner weapons?

 

I expect some grinding in practically any game i've ever played. Anyone familiar with MMO's at all can attest to the amount of grinding sometimes required for good rewards.

 

I'm not saying that you should have to kite hundreds of zombies for some small reward, or that killing them should be the best or most productive means of generating xp. It's been stated elsewhere in the forum that apparently, TFP are looking at that already. I'm also not saying that there should be *excessive* grinding. I'm saying there should be a good balance, but that some grinding isn't a huge problem for most people.

[RestInPieces]

As mentioned, TFP is looking into the relative settings of XP returns for various activities. I think it's pretty clear that, right now, zombie kills are, relative to other options, OP for XP. The extra-balance trick will be in deciding whether Zombie XP gets lowered, or other activity XP gets increased....

 

I really think it would be a good idea to only lower the former AKA make a single level harder to get, while lowering level locks, virtually keeping the same progression rate pace time-wise.

[Royal Deluxe]

I really think it would be a good idea to only lower the former AKA make a single level harder to get, while lowering level locks, virtually keeping the same progression rate pace time-wise.

 

We allready left the borders of a playable startgame. So i dont know what to say

A: Wuut you want me to grind even longer until my char is playable

B: Sure, make it so that the player can level only one Level per real week. It doesnt matter, i will never again play the startgame

 

Really can we have a masochist option, and for us others make the startgame playable

[RestInPieces]

We allready left the borders of a playable startgame. So i dont know what to say

A: Wuut you want me to grind even longer until my char is playable

B: Sure, make it so that the player can level only one Level per real week. It doesnt matter, i will never again play the startgame

 

Really can we have a masochist option, and for us others make the startgame playable

 

You don't seem to get it. If they do that (make levels harder to get) while lowering level locks, you will be getting a forge with a lower gamestage scaling! Plus people won't feel as restricted by having many points and falling into "walls" (psychology 101). Time/pace-wise nothing has to change.

 

If, you belong to the crowd that wants to craft steel/iron at day 1-2, then sorry, but it was already explained in many threads that this is not how the game was supposed to work in the first place.

[Roland]

This won't help the OP. His problem (and I completely agree with him) is that EVERYTHING in the game now revolves around Perks. This means that Experience is all that matters. Since doing activities doesn't increase anything about your character unless those activities happen to give Experience, the player is forced to perform those activities which give the most Experience. Right now, this is killing Zombies. Nothing else comes close. Easy difficulty or not, the OP is now forced to hunt down and kill zombies CONSTANTLY if he wants to level up and stay ahead of the arms race and horde night. This is garbage design.

 

Actually, by focusing on leveling up as quickly as you can you are the one pushing the arms race and increasing the difficulty of blood moon faster than you can keep up. You are inflating your gamestage. If you would do some of those other activities that bring in less xp but help your ability to survive then your gamestage will stay lower longer and you’ll find yourself in a better position to fight. You definitely are never forced to hunt zombies and by doing so just to level up faster you are engineering your own demise.

 

Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

 

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.

[SnowDog1942]

Actually, by focusing on leveling up as quickly as you can you are the one pushing the arms race and increasing the difficulty of blood moon faster than you can keep up. You are inflating your gamestage. If you would do some of those other activities that bring in less xp but help your ability to survive then your gamestage will stay lower longer and you’ll find yourself in a better position to fight. You definitely are never forced to hunt zombies and by doing so just to level up faster you are engineering your own demise.

 

Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

 

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.

 

This is so true, but I dont know if its a good mechanic or not, I really dont. it might be, but, tying not to kill zombies to make the game easier feels weird in a way.

 

Id almost want your gamestage to be based solely of days survived and difficulty level, which im sure has its own problems.

[Royal Deluxe]

You don't seem to get it. If they do that (make levels harder to get) while lowering level locks, you will be getting a forge with a lower gamestage scaling! Plus people won't feel as restricted by having many points and falling into "walls" (psychology 101). Time/pace-wise nothing has to change.

 

If, you belong to the crowd that wants to craft steel/iron at day 1-2, then sorry, but it was already explained in many threads that this is not how the game was supposed to work in the first place.

 

i am now lvl 44, means 49 Skillpoints, and SLOWLY the character is playable.

(Single player Death is Death game, vanilla)

The only thing i wish is more Stamina. (and the bike i have now)

 

And i hope the auger can be modefied to 4x more power, 15m tunnel through sand and i was out of fuel

 

Finally i need no forge if i have a few traders

[RestInPieces]

i am now lvl 44, means 49 Skillpoints, and SLOWLY the character is playable.

The only thing i wish is more Stamina. (and the bike i have now)

 

And i hope the auger can be modefied to 4x more power, 15m tunnel through sand and i was out of fuel

 

Finally i need no forge if i have a few traders

 

Forge was just an example, what I mentioned affects anything that is level gated. Yes the auger is undertuned especially compared to the saw.