please don't cater to the HC crowd

[Sawth77]

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.

 

I see what you're saying, and i'm on board with it. It's worth pointing out, however, that it can be a bit rough trying to gather resources or loot locations of their best stuff without running up the body count. Once sleeper spawn rates have been addressed, i'm sure this kind of gameplay would be easier to achieve.

 

Not saying it's impossible now, but certainly easier said than done at some point.

[SlicksGirl]

Actually, by focusing on leveling up as quickly as you can you are the one pushing the arms race and increasing the difficulty of blood moon faster than you can keep up. You are inflating your gamestage. If you would do some of those other activities that bring in less xp but help your ability to survive then your gamestage will stay lower longer and you’ll find yourself in a better position to fight. You definitely are never forced to hunt zombies and by doing so just to level up faster you are engineering your own demise.

 

Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

 

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.

 

i guess i got lucky by finding armor early on and not having to make it. I totally skipped the leather armor stage by finding level 3 iron and steel armor on day 3. by combining that with a lot of crouching and sniping with eh compound level 2 bow i found on day 4, the games been easy. I'm level 49 on day 23 and have just started considering settling down to build a base.

[Trebor1503]

I agree with OP

 

A17 is about the removal of almost all choice.

 

Want XP while building? No (frame block upgrade only)

Want XP from mining? Not really... a few points but you will never advance in the game towards new perks. Oh, and good luck finding resources anyway.

Want XP from trading? Less things are worth anything, and XP is less too. Enjoy

Want XP from crafting? Nope

Want XP? Kill Zs, that is it. Enjoy all your options.

 

Want to build? Zs destroy blocks way faster making it almost worthless to build or upgrade

Want to build? Material harvesting is slower and your stamina is ♥♥♥♥

Want to build? It will take you 2-3 times as long to level to concrete and steel, and that is if you don't make a balanced character.

Want to build? Even many wooded blocks are gated behind the workbench, and heck those are just aesthetic.

Want to build? No we didn't think so.

 

Want to travel? You stamina is ♥♥♥♥

Want to travel? The map is smaller

Want to travel? The snow and desert biomes are bigger blobs and your clothing doesn't really protect you any more (please refer back to stamina)

Want to travel? Maybe one day, after a hundred real hours, you will have a "new" motorized toy. Better not restart your game.

Want to travel? So much more fun!

 

Want to kill Zs? We have you covered

Want to kill Zs? We have turned it into the grind mechanism... basically like turning you hobby into your dayjob. Kind of takes the fun out of it.

 

Want to play alone? No you don't

Want to play alone? PIO are balanced for Multi-enjoy

Want to play alone? Leveling to get you what you need for mid-game should only take 20-30 hours real time.

Want to play alone? Git Good! Be a real "man"! You sux! Whiner.

 

Have any issue with A17? Prepared to be shouted down by a vocal minority.

Have any issue with A17? It is just experimental/beta/alpha/Tuesday... stop expecting things.

Have any issue with A17? They will tell you to mod (of course you can't mod individually if you are joining multi; see playing alone above)

 

Want to build a stilt house? Nope

Want to build underground? Nope

Want to build in a POI? Zs will chew through it like swiss cheese

Want to choose a different POI for Zs to destroy each 7 day? Wow, what a fun game with choices!

 

Show me one Z movie or comic where Zs destroy like the do in A17. Steel doors in 5 minutes: gone. Steel walls in 3 minutes: gone. Meter thick reinforced concrete slabs: Gone before I finished this sentence.

 

Want to restart a new game? Do you really want the initial grind? It's won;t be nearly as fun the second time.

 

I DO NOT HATE A17... but for the greatness it adds, TFP also added a year of spite against a community that found ways to "beat" their game. I do not enjoy many of the changes because they add grind and decrease choice. It decreases the variety of play styles. It forces Multi-player. And finally, I believe it takes away fun for a MAJORITY of the players. And finally...

[Gazz]

I see what you're saying, and i'm on board with it. It's worth pointing out, however, that it can be a bit rough trying to gather resources or loot locations of their best stuff without running up the body count.

Yeah, but some players go out of their way to kill every zombie there is. =)

[xXBadDreamXx]

The game continues to be made more difficult on default settings because experienced hardcore gamers keep asking for it. New players know nothing about the game and the tutorial does not tell new players how to do most things. I watch new players on twitch and its an absolute disaster and you can hear the pain and frustration till they just rage quit. Easy mode needs to be so easy a child can play it. New players will not mod the game nor should they be expected to. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. Experienced players that want a harder experience can and do mod the game to make it harder as it should be because they are experienced. The game is far too difficult at default settings . Yes we get that it should be a hard game BUT were basing it off of our own years and years of experience. A new player knows nothingggg about how things work in 7 days to die and it isnt like other games so its a huge learning curve. It needs to be made super easy for them and then they can ramp up the difficulty from there...not play 3 hours and rage and hate the game and wonder why a developer would set customers up to have a crappy experience and have to figure out how to turn settings down.

[Roland]

This is so true, but I dont know if its a good mechanic or not, I really dont. it might be, but, tying not to kill zombies to make the game easier feels weird in a way.

 

Id almost want your gamestage to be based solely of days survived and difficulty level, which im sure has its own problems.

 

It’s only weird if your focus is 100% on earning points. Just play the game and do what you would normally do in such a situation. Focus on securing food and shelter and protective clothing and weapons. Don’t kill every zombie. There is no law that says you must get to level X by Day Y.

[Roland]

The game continues to be made more difficult on default settings because experienced hardcore gamers keep asking for it. New players know nothing about the game and the tutorial does not tell new players how to do most things. I watch new players on twitch and its an absolute disaster and you can hear the pain and frustration till they just rage quit. Easy mode needs to be so easy a child can play it. New players will not mod the game nor should they be expected to. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. Experienced players that want a harder experience can and do mod the game to make it harder as it should be because they are experienced. The game is far too difficult at default settings . Yes we get that it should be a hard game BUT were basing it off of our own years and years of experience. A new player knows nothingggg about how things work in 7 days to die and it isnt like other games so its a huge learning curve. It needs to be made super easy for them and then they can ramp up the difficulty from there...not play 3 hours and rage and hate the game and wonder why a developer would set customers up to have a crappy experience and have to figure out how to turn settings down.

 

New players should turn off spawning and just play it as a straight nonfantasy survival game for a few days. Then turn zombies on at Scavenger level. It’s how I started a long time ago. They just have to overcome their ego to do it.

[Kalen]

If we have folks complaining the game is too easy and others complaining it's too hard then it's probably close to where it needs to be.

 

Sounds about right.... now, is anyone complaining that A17 is too easy?

[Sergoros]

New players should turn off spawning and just play it as a straight nonfantasy survival game for a few days. Then turn zombies on at Scavenger level. It’s how I started a long time ago. They just have to overcome their ego to do it.

Not sure if this is a good advice. After all, without zeds, leveling would be a real problem for them. Its frightening to even imagine how much grind they would have to do, to just learn the forge recipe

[SlicksGirl]

It’s only weird if your focus is 100% on earning points. Just play the game and do what you would normally do in such a situation. Focus on securing food and shelter and protective clothing and weapons. Don’t kill every zombie. There is no law that says you must get to level X by Day Y.

 

cannot secure shelter.. ever.. zombies shred through everything like they are fueled by radiation and steroids. I havnt found a single working crafting station thus far and I've come across several. The bike takes damage going up ramps on bridges and wont go up inclines at all. can even effectively clear out POi's for temp bases because zombies continue to respawn copies of themselves. so you can clear a room, turn around and they are back. or they spawn 4 or 5 copies of the same zombie and you thought you killed them, but really it was a stack of the same zombie spawning on the same spot. or they dont spawn until up to 5 minutes after you've been in the room crouched in a corner. I've lost everything 3 times on easy mode on a navasgene map because the zombies, even when i am not in the building, come demolish it while i'

m watching them.

[RestInPieces]

It’s only weird if your focus is 100% on earning points. Just play the game and do what you would normally do in such a situation. Focus on securing food and shelter and protective clothing and weapons. Don’t kill every zombie. There is no law that says you must get to level X by Day Y.

 

Naturally you can't expect the player to restrain himself, or avoid killing zombies just because the gamestage will rise. The temp fix would be balancing the xp sources (which you said they are looking into atm and that's great - and as I was saying for about a 100 times before A17 that makes me believe I have some kind of clairvoyance superpower of common sense /s).

 

As for the gamestages depending again partially on time, Gazz, your thoughts on my reply to you here? https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?96277-Why-A17-matches-more-than-my-expectations&p=883335#post883335

[SlicksGirl]

Yeah, but some players go out of their way to kill every zombie there is. =)

 

because that is how we made the game a challenge after the previous 10 alphas (I've had the game since 6 )

[Guppycur]

@baddream

 

Agreed, and with the new Rwg system, it wouldn't be that difficult to create a "new player map" that does just that.

 

I remember that being discussed a while back, so that might be the plan.

 

A little 1k map that starts you off in a poi, where an npc explains things and sends you on missions to get through the first 2 days.

 

Completely doable.

[SlicksGirl]

New players should turn off spawning and just play it as a straight nonfantasy survival game for a few days. Then turn zombies on at Scavenger level. It’s how I started a long time ago. They just have to overcome their ego to do it.

 

oddly thats how i played the game when the first few alphas came out and you got xp doing everything. but in this mode.. would they get xp for hunting animals? because then, yeah they could level up by hunting down resources. or learn the game by being on a no-zed game and then starting a new game with zeds. but again, this will only work if xp is gained through other means than killing zeds.

 

btw i'm level 49 and the perk to unlock a forge still says i'm not high enough level, so how would this work even? i mean, even us experienced players do not understand what level we have to be at to unlock the sciences.

 

what i would really like to see, to make the game a bit more balanced and role playing, is the ability to select 1 path right upfront. so say when you create your character and start a map you get to select a skill tree to start with, say intelligence or science (ideally all of them are purchasable by perks, but you get to select only 1 skill tree at start up) and you can learn the others later by buying perks. so you can start out with the ability to cook or forge or be good with weapons. and other players would be able to select the other skills. just like other RPGS. and you can learn say building a forge, from a recipe, or making a food or meal, from a recipe.

 

so to illustrate, i could start out as a cook because before the apocalypse i was a cook. but i need a recipe to actually cook more than basic level foods. BTU, if i want ot learn any other skill, i have to builds up skill points and buy them through XP like we have now. this means i would have to learn to make arrows through perks, learn to use tools, learn to use weapons, learn to be an athlete. (so if someone else picks up a recipe, they cannot learn it unless they have purchased the perk for that level. )

 

so another player can choose to be good with weapons and be a weapon smith, right away they can make crude weapons for people or teach them how to use a bow (make a book for other players to learn) but they would suck at making tools or cooking and cannot do this stuff without the perk system.

 

this would make it balanced. and yes, it is a lot like crafting undead legacy.

 

but it would also be nice to have more than one character too, so those of us who play solo can manage the other crafting, but we've also have to manage other characters too.

[Roland]

Sounds about right.... now, is anyone complaining that A17 is too easy?

 

Not in this thread

[SlicksGirl]

Not in this thread

 

its too easy

 

there, fixed it

[Kalarro]

Lower the difficulty?

 

Nothing to do with difficulty. I actually find killing zombies easier and faster than in a16. Powerattacks to the head own them even with a wood club.

 

But, like OP, I feel like I have to fight and fight and fight all the time. Not hard, just boring. I want to explore, gather and build defenses. But theres just an endless amount of zombies. Well, thats one thing, the other is that their xp is so much bigger, and the level gating makes xp som important, that not killingzombies seems like wasting time.

 

The funpimps are moving the focus of the game too much into just killing zombies, instead of exploring, gathering and building defenses.

[Kalen]

Not in this thread

 

You're equivocating.... not in any thread. At least not in any appreciable numbers.

[SnowDog1942]

Nothing to do with difficulty. I actually find killing zombies easier and faster than in a16. Powerattacks to the head own them even with a wood club.

 

But, like OP, I feel like I have to fight and fight and fight all the time. Not hard, just boring. I want to explore, gather and build defenses. But theres just an endless amount of zombies. Well, thats one thing, the other is that their xp is so much bigger, and the level gating makes xp som important, that not killingzombies seems like wasting time.

 

The funpimps are moving the focus of the game too much into just killing zombies, instead of exploring, gathering and building defenses.

 

I believe non horde night zombie spawns are at the same number in A17 in A16...pretty sure a dev said that. You are seeing a difference?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

You're equivocating.... not in any thread. At least not in any appreciable numbers.

 

Its too easy

[xXBadDreamXx]

Roland your solution is for new players...never having played the game and not knowing anything ,to turn the zombies off in a zombie game so they can learn things more easily? shouldnt they be able to ...you know... just expect that default mode is actually playable by a new player without any experience?

[Roland]

@slicks: There was no xp at all until A11 and then it was only to improve your gear but maybe that’s when you started.

 

As for earning XP you do earn it from doing all sorts of things—even crafting xp is back again from A15 though it diminishes to zero when crafting the same thing. That little xp icon is constantly in my lower right corner when I’m not killing zombies. Sure, the most efficient way to get xp is to kill zombies but it is by no means the only way.

 

@Rest: Rubbish. If I can play without regard to xp efficiency farming then I can expect others to do the same. All this talk of the game forcing them to level up by only killing zombies is laughable. It’s great that the devs plan to balance it better but even after that the choice to find the new best method of leveling up quickly if it isn’t still killing zombies is still just a choice.

[Sergoros]

@Rest: Rubbish. If I can play without regard to xp efficiency farming then I can expect others to do the same.

 

Have you tried leveling in the game without zombies? How much days it took you to unlock forge? Get a bicycle? I am not complaining for myself. I am questioning your advice to the new players, who would probably be turned off by the grindy experience, if they follow your advice.

[Kosmic Kerman]

You're equivocating.... not in any thread. At least not in any appreciable numbers.

A17 is harder than A16 but I wouldn’t say it’s hard or impossible at the default difficulty level. I did not have any problems clearing POIs but I did find the noise detection range of wandering zombies to be annoying. In my first play through I focused on looting specific items and ignored zombies where I could. In my next play through I will be actively seeking them out. That said I do think the default difficulty level should be changed from nomad to adventurer.

[Ghostlight]

Lower difficulty should not just be a simple damage calculation change (more damage by the player, less by Z)

 

The damage could even stay about the same.

 

It should rather balance the game to spawn differently

 

It does. Difficulty setting directly feeds the gamestage calculation which directly affects zombies spawn types, number and damage.

[Kalarro]

I believe non horde night zombie spawns are at the same number in A17 in A16...pretty sure a dev said that. You are seeing a difference?

 

No idea about night zombies, I like to find a cozy plaze at night and level by craft... oh wait that was before a16, and dig, cook and look at skills.

 

But during the day, they sure spawn like crazy. Ive seen them spawn near me much more than when it was reported as a sleeper bug on a16.