please don't cater to the HC crowd

[Roland]

Roland your solution is for new players...never having played the game and not knowing anything ,to turn the zombies off in a zombie game so they can learn things more easily? shouldnt they be able to ...you know... just expect that default mode is actually playable by a new player without any experience?

 

Who says it isn’t? Most complaints I’ve heard are from seasoned players who can’t or don’t want to adjust their playstyle from A16. Some new players will be fine and some won’t and those who can’t handle it can do as I did and mess with the options. I was a new player and figured it out. But it sounds as though they plan to make some changes. It still won’t be as easy as A16 was.

[Kalen]

Its too easy

 

Raise the difficulty?

[Kosmic Kerman]

oddly thats how i played the game when the first few alphas came out and you got xp doing everything. but in this mode.. would they get xp for hunting animals? because then, yeah they could level up by hunting down resources. or learn the game by being on a no-zed game and then starting a new game with zeds. but again, this will only work if xp is gained through other means than killing zeds.

 

btw i'm level 49 and the perk to unlock a forge still says i'm not high enough level, so how would this work even? i mean, even us experienced players do not understand what level we have to be at to unlock the sciences.

 

Hover over the lock icon in the perks menu to see what the requirements are. You need to be player level 20 and intellect 4 to unlock the forge.

 

Also, iron armor isn’t strictly better than leather armor in A17. Armor has penalties now. There are actual differences between light and heavy armor other than damage resistance.

[icehot]

Actually, by focusing on leveling up as quickly as you can you are the one pushing the arms race and increasing the difficulty of blood moon faster than you can keep up. You are inflating your gamestage. If you would do some of those other activities that bring in less xp but help your ability to survive then your gamestage will stay lower longer and you’ll find yourself in a better position to fight. You definitely are never forced to hunt zombies and by doing so just to level up faster you are engineering your own demise.

 

Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

 

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.

 

That's exactly how I've been playing, only taking on wandering hordes that are going to destroy my base, I actively try to avoid zombies, deliberately so I don't level very quickly as I know full well I won't have the resources to fight the blood moon horde if I don't - just started day 21 now and my game stage is at 72 and level 35.

 

I've actually been cursing the wandering hordes now that come just before the 7 day horde as I work on my base I do not want to gain any levels before the horde starts.

 

I've noticed some people are near gamestage 100 before day 14! Though I do still think the gamestages should be dialed back a touch (I still got cops on day 14 even though I'm playing it safe), and not by lowering the difficulty, I like the tough zombies to fight one on one, I just don't want the hordes to obliterate me.

[Kalen]

A17 is harder than A16 but I wouldn’t say it’s hard or impossible at the default difficulty level. I did not have any problems clearing POIs but I did find the noise detection range of wandering zombies to be annoying. In my first play through I focused on looting specific items and ignored zombies where I could. In my next play through I will be actively seeking them out. That said I do think the default difficulty level should be changed from nomad to adventurer.

 

Don't misunderstand, my point was that Roland claimed that when some claim its too easy and some claim its too hard then the balance is probably about right. I was just pointing out that the vast majority of posts are about it being too hard... so maybe the balance is too skewed to difficult.

[Kosmic Kerman]

Roland your solution is for new players...never having played the game and not knowing anything ,to turn the zombies off in a zombie game so they can learn things more easily? shouldnt they be able to ...you know... just expect that default mode is actually playable by a new player without any experience?

 

No. Every player is different. Further default in most games is targeted towards the experienced gamer. Regardless, Roland has stated many times that he thinks the default difficulty should be lowered.

[RestInPieces]

Rest: Rubbish. If I can play without regard to xp efficiency farming then I can expect others to do the same. All this talk of the game forcing them to level up by only killing zombies is laughable. It’s great that the devs plan to balance it better but even after that the choice to find the new best method of leveling up quickly if it isn’t still killing zombies is still just a choice.

 

If it was rubbish, the devs wouldn't bother to balance it in the first place. You can't think this through depending on your point of view alone. Think of it more as "what tendencies does the game create for the avg player". Especially when recipe perks are tied to leveling that's the tendency you will get - players will try to find the most effective way to progress, period, doesn't matter how one chooses to see it.

 

Anyhow I am willing to bet that the more balanced the xp sources are, the less players are going to focus on the most effective way to get experience and that makes sense, because their actions are also governed by other factors which will overshadow a small effectiveness difference.

[icehot]

In terms of new players, I've done some multiplayer on this with my girlfriend, and she's the epitomy of a beginner, you don't get much more beginner than her. The last game she's ever played before A17 was mario on a console around 20 years ago, she is not a gamer by any stretch but wanted to join me using her sons computer. She couldn't figure out the sneak mechanic at all, she spent the entire day in sneak mode wondering why she couldn't run as fast as me - i think she pressed the key by accident quite a lot despite me telling her to not sneak around. It also took her until around 6pm game time just to do the starter quest, as she kept getting confused about what things she needed, where to get plant fibres and how to place wooden frame on the ground etc. I was just wandering around defending her from zombies roaming in whilst she was doing that - trying to find a place to stay by night time was next to impossible lol.

[Kam R.]

Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

 

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.

 

Bad example, at least for the current state of the experimental.

I have had exactly one instance of being able to obtain a piece of leather armor before being able to craft it (gated at level 30........). It was a quest reward. Never seen any leather armor in regular loot containers so far. By then I was able to grab a lot of iron armor though, but that one is quite worthless to a traveler who wants to stay nimble, with the massive impact on movement speed and stamina regen it has. Seems like that needs some adjustments.

[wastelandstoic]

I agree with OP

 

A17 is about the removal of almost all choice.

 

Want XP while building? No (frame block upgrade only)

Want XP from mining? Not really... a few points but you will never advance in the game towards new perks. Oh, and good luck finding resources anyway.

Want XP from trading? Less things are worth anything, and XP is less too. Enjoy

Want XP from crafting? Nope

Want XP? Kill Zs, that is it. Enjoy all your options.

 

Want to build? Zs destroy blocks way faster making it almost worthless to build or upgrade

Want to build? Material harvesting is slower and your stamina is ♥♥♥♥

Want to build? It will take you 2-3 times as long to level to concrete and steel, and that is if you don't make a balanced character.

Want to build? Even many wooded blocks are gated behind the workbench, and heck those are just aesthetic.

Want to build? No we didn't think so.

 

Want to travel? You stamina is ♥♥♥♥

Want to travel? The map is smaller

Want to travel? The snow and desert biomes are bigger blobs and your clothing doesn't really protect you any more (please refer back to stamina)

Want to travel? Maybe one day, after a hundred real hours, you will have a "new" motorized toy. Better not restart your game.

Want to travel? So much more fun!

 

Want to kill Zs? We have you covered

Want to kill Zs? We have turned it into the grind mechanism... basically like turning you hobby into your dayjob. Kind of takes the fun out of it.

 

Want to play alone? No you don't

Want to play alone? PIO are balanced for Multi-enjoy

Want to play alone? Leveling to get you what you need for mid-game should only take 20-30 hours real time.

Want to play alone? Git Good! Be a real "man"! You sux! Whiner.

 

Have any issue with A17? Prepared to be shouted down by a vocal minority.

Have any issue with A17? It is just experimental/beta/alpha/Tuesday... stop expecting things.

Have any issue with A17? They will tell you to mod (of course you can't mod individually if you are joining multi; see playing alone above)

 

Want to build a stilt house? Nope

Want to build underground? Nope

Want to build in a POI? Zs will chew through it like swiss cheese

Want to choose a different POI for Zs to destroy each 7 day? Wow, what a fun game with choices!

 

Show me one Z movie or comic where Zs destroy like the do in A17. Steel doors in 5 minutes: gone. Steel walls in 3 minutes: gone. Meter thick reinforced concrete slabs: Gone before I finished this sentence.

 

Want to restart a new game? Do you really want the initial grind? It's won;t be nearly as fun the second time.

 

I DO NOT HATE A17... but for the greatness it adds, TFP also added a year of spite against a community that found ways to "beat" their game. I do not enjoy many of the changes because they add grind and decrease choice. It decreases the variety of play styles. It forces Multi-player. And finally, I believe it takes away fun for a MAJORITY of the players. And finally...

 

To disgusted to form my own list, Trebor pretty much nails it anyway. TY!

[Jugginator]

cannot secure shelter.. ever.. zombies shred through everything like they are fueled by radiation and steroids. I havnt found a single working crafting station thus far and I've come across several. The bike takes damage going up ramps on bridges and wont go up inclines at all. can even effectively clear out POi's for temp bases because zombies continue to respawn copies of themselves. so you can clear a room, turn around and they are back. or they spawn 4 or 5 copies of the same zombie and you thought you killed them, but really it was a stack of the same zombie spawning on the same spot. or they dont spawn until up to 5 minutes after you've been in the room crouched in a corner. I've lost everything 3 times on easy mode on a navasgene map because the zombies, even when i am not in the building, come demolish it while i'

m watching them.

Although they break rather easily, I've found traps are the best way to go. And avoid the bigger POIs until you have the resources to "reduce" the size by walling/trapping sections. I tested this in creative mode vesus feral lumberjacks and wrights; made a 3x3 enclosure out of concrete and it took them about a minute to get through, with 3 rows of iron spikes surrounding it they all actually died before getting to it. Barbed wire really slows them down, too. I think they shifted it to have your walls but the traps are more needed now.

[Jedo]

I don’t hunt for the most efficient xp sources; I just play the game.

 

I don’t think the game is particularly easy or difficult. It is comparatively difficult when considering A16, but that’s not saying much.

 

This is not a true sandbox game...unless you turn on creative mode. If you want to do things before they are unlocked, then use that. The rest of us will play the zombie/role-playing/survival/tower defense parts of the game.

[SlicksGirl]

@slicks: There was no xp at all until A11 and then it was only to improve your gear but maybe that’s when you started.

 

As for earning XP you do earn it from doing all sorts of things—even crafting xp is back again from A15 though it diminishes to zero when crafting the same thing. That little xp icon is constantly in my lower right corner when I’m not killing zombies. Sure, the most efficient way to get xp is to kill zombies but it is by no means the only way.

 

@Rest: Rubbish. If I can play without regard to xp efficiency farming then I can expect others to do the same. All this talk of the game forcing them to level up by only killing zombies is laughable. It’s great that the devs plan to balance it better but even after that the choice to find the new best method of leveling up quickly if it isn’t still killing zombies is still just a choice.

 

I've had it since a6... but didnt play much back then, was working 18 hours a day, 6 days a week. i guess i forgot there was a time without xp.. lol. (my old account was hacked around a10 and i had to repurchase the game on a new steam account) which is when i actually got into the game, because I had to make a choice about which games I was going to reinvest in.)

 

i've only seen the XP bubble after zombies and looting. I'll pay more attention to it. but still dont craft much this update because havnt found a working craft station until i found a tablesaw in the cabinet poi. .

[gcomerfo]

to OP, try to raise your 24 hour cycle, which will stretch out days longer and will give you lots more time to get everything done and still explore or build. I used to do 60 min days, but now I bumped it to 90 min, and feels lot better. But, I think lot of the streamers use 120 min days now, like Kage. Sure, your hoard night will be longer too, but, you'll have many more game hours to prep for it.

[JCrook1028]

cannot secure shelter.. ever.. zombies shred through everything like they are fueled by radiation and steroids. I havnt found a single working crafting station thus far and I've come across several. The bike takes damage going up ramps on bridges and wont go up inclines at all. can even effectively clear out POi's for temp bases because zombies continue to respawn copies of themselves. so you can clear a room, turn around and they are back. or they spawn 4 or 5 copies of the same zombie and you thought you killed them, but really it was a stack of the same zombie spawning on the same spot. or they dont spawn until up to 5 minutes after you've been in the room crouched in a corner. I've lost everything 3 times on easy mode on a navasgene map because the zombies, even when i am not in the building, come demolish it while i'

m watching them.

 

If you do not clear the entire building they will continue to spawn back in. Clear the building and put down your bedroll or LCB to stop respawns.

[SlicksGirl]

to OP, try to raise your 24 hour cycle, which will stretch out days longer and will give you lots more time to get everything done and still explore or build. I used to do 60 min days, but now I bumped it to 90 min, and feels lot better. But, I think lot of the streamers use 120 min days now, like Kage. Sure, your hoard night will be longer too, but, you'll have many more game hours to prep for it.

 

^^^ THIS

 

30 minute days are crippling, 60 minute days feel too short with a17, but were jsut right in a16.

[RestInPieces]

^^^ THIS

 

30 minute days are crippling, 60 minute days feel too short with a17, but were jsut right in a16.

 

Do expect to most probably encounter irradiated zombies on your first horde night though.

[SlicksGirl]

the wandering hordes come and take down the base, even with a lcb and a bag, even when you are not there. I've returned from loot runs to find them in 10 to 30 hordes (i was below level 20 under 14 days in) to find my base just being shredded. no fire going, nobody there, i'm on soloing, i had spikes, and they run through those like butter.

 

I've taken to leaving my loot in bins on the street and putting my lcb and a bag on a roof with my campfire and staying away most of the time.

 

even then, i die, spawn on my bag, and find my "base" is taking heavy damage by hordes, filled with zombies, or caved in.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

If you do not clear the entire building they will continue to spawn back in. Clear the building and put down your bedroll or LCB to stop respawns.

 

besides, who doenst clear out a building before looting it, thats just crazy talk. you climb up to the roof, dispatch the ferrals, place an LCB and a bag and a camp fire, then work your way through the building. place some bins down and go back and loot the thing.

[Royal Deluxe]

its too easy

 

there, fixed it

Besides the issues i named

 

Yes its easy, but would not say "too"

[SlicksGirl]

try day 1 on a roof.. yup.. 3 radiated zombies, day 1 on a roof.

 

i'm now level 49 on day 23 and i've encountered more radiated zombies inside buildings and on roofs than in hordenights. in fact, i spent night 14 and 21 walking down streets without a horde in sight. i find i'm actually safer traveling at night now and use nighttime to make the majority of my travel distances.

[HerrKingsley]

It’s only weird if your focus is 100% on earning points. Just play the game and do what you would normally do in such a situation. Focus on securing food and shelter and protective clothing and weapons. Don’t kill every zombie. There is no law that says you must get to level X by Day Y.

 

I hope the zoning in, random spawning zombies are doing will be balanced in next update.

I got to level 23 on day 6 without even trying when playing nomad. I had to actively avoid hordes in other word abandon POIs that i was looting to keep the kill count down. And im terrified for the BM

See you want to clear the outside before you enter a POI, random spawn will increese the number off killed zombies. So will wandering hordes.

I also want to clear the outside of my temporary base before night since i want to be able to do stuff during the night.

 

On the other hand my other playthrought i lived in the outskirts and tried to live of the land.. aka grinding my sanity away

playing like that i only got to level 12..

[Ghostlight]

Why the heck are people trying to keep the kill count down?? That makes the game harder not easier. You want to level as fast as possible. Yes this increases your gamestage and makes enemies tougher, but the due to perks being gated behind levels (a woefully stupid design), the player's increase in power is not linear. There are many plateaus (i.e. level gates) you will cross that will greatly increase your power and capability.

 

Put another way, let's say I go all out killing zombies and I hit level 22 by horde night 1. In the same time period, you do not do this and instead just mine and loot. By horde night 1 you are level 16.

 

Question: who has the toughest horde night?

 

Answer: you, by a lot.

 

Welcome to the wild whacky world of level gating.

 

If you want to make sure the BM horde is easy, just die on the day before it. Since the GS calculation in A17 is:

 

(level + days alive) x difficulty factor

 

So the impact of dying in terms of lowering your GS is MUCH more impactful than in A16.

[icehot]

Why the heck are people trying to keep the kill count down?? That makes the game harder not easier. You want to level as fast as possible. Yes this increases your gamestage and makes enemies tougher, but the due to perks being gated behind levels (a woefully stupid design), the player's increase in power is not linear. There are many plateaus (i.e. level gates) you will cross that will greatly increase your power and capability.

 

Put another way, let's say I go all out killing zombies and I hit level 22 by horde night 1. In the same time period, you do not do this and instead just mine and loot. By horde night 1 you are level 16.

 

Question: who has the toughest horde night?

 

Answer: you, by a lot.

 

Welcome to the wild whacky world of level gating.

 

If you want to make sure the BM horde is easy, just die on the day before it. Since the GS calculation in A17 is:

 

(level + days alive) x difficulty factor

 

So the impact of dying in terms of lowering your GS is MUCH more impactful than in A16.

 

Because doing so has enabled me to get a reinforced concrete horde base by day 21 whilst still on only level 35, I have a bicycle, I have iron bars around the edge, and iron spikes etc etc.. Still got things like a sniper rifle and 50 rounds, compound bow, and some mods for my club. By levelling in the mining perks I've got a tonne of resources. But the main thing I've had is time to gather them and build something solid.

 

Also I should say that I've spent night 7 and 14 on the same POI, and it's still not down because I kept the gamestage low.

[Jedo]

try day 1 on a roof.. yup.. 3 radiated zombies, day 1 on a roof.

 

i'm now level 49 on day 23 and i've encountered more radiated zombies inside buildings and on roofs than in hordenights. in fact, i spent night 14 and 21 walking down streets without a horde in sight. i find i'm actually safer traveling at night now and use nighttime to make the majority of my travel distances.

 

Either you picked a bad roof or it’s bugged experimental. I have not encountered a single rad zombie.

[SlicksGirl]

Either you picked a bad roof or it’s bugged experimental. I have not encountered a single rad zombie.

 

i'm betting bugged, because i mostly fight buzzards and radiated zombies and a lot of hordes filled with only 1 zombie type. I had to travel the entire map to find 5 zombie dogs. i rarely ever see them and they are only in the wasteland. I've never seen a radiated or ferral hog.