An in depth discussion on zombie loot in alpha 17

[Dosu Kinuta]

Well, sometimes. In Z Nation they sometimes have to find a specific person, probably undead, to get some item that they need to advance the plot. By the same token, most people in the world have coins, keys, credit cards, or other items in their possession that could be useful as scrap metals, scrap plastic, possibly a construction worker carrying hammers, wrenches, etc...

 

So in that sense, scarce loot or backpacks popping out of a corpse is immersion breaking. That Biker wasn't wearing a backpack, where did that come from?

 

Well..the ideea of having a backpack instead of a corpse is to reduce to memory usage, the game needs a lot of optimization, you can't say that it doesn't...but I agree it's a bit immersion breaking.

 

I agree that some, SOME zombies should have their specific loot..but rarely...and zombies should not become a way to farm resources, they should be a threat. For example, in real life do you think that zombies would walk and carry an engine with them?

 

A feral has a chance of having ammo and guns, now really? Just look at the feral a bit, it has no clothes, no backpack and yet it can have weapons and ammo. Where does the feral carry such things, in mouth...? Now that's BIG immersion breaking for me.

[Colin248]

Well..the ideea of having a backpack instead of a corpse is to reduce to memory usage, the game needs a lot of optimization, you can't say that it doesn't...but I agree it's a bit immersion breaking.

 

I agree that some, SOME zombies should have their specific loot..but rarely...and zombies should not become a way to farm resources, they should be a threat. For example, in real life do you think that zombies would walk and carry an engine with them?

 

A feral has a chance of having ammo and guns, now really? Just look at the feral a bit, it has no clothes, no backpack and yet it can have weapons and ammo. Where does the feral carry such things, in mouth...? Now that's BIG immersion breaking for me.

 

from what i understand, that isnt changieng. boss type zeds are still gona carry loot, but only the good ♥♥♥♥. so encorageing you to go and hunt there powerfull creatures.

[Qyzer]

Just within the last 24 hours I (test) modded back in gore terrain blocks from a few alphas ago (though I had to use a different texture since the "gore" texture seems to have been moved or deleted) that, when destroyed, drop backpacks if there is any loot in them. I prefer Zs climbing up and over defenses instead of them "learning" to destroy posts (I see it as "randomly attacking in frustration" rather than the "becoming structural engineers" though) but I do prefer the new lack of loot overall and voted that way despite being largely open to trying it.

 

Unless they somehow remove this ability entirely there should be the possibility of modding the old behavior back in (in a similar fashion to what Roland noted regarding crafting XP), though the work in re-balancing the loot tables might be a bit harder. I've done it for a friends and family mod but it seems crazy to start up with A17 looming.... (I hope it's looming :-) )

[Reth]

I've been playing computer games for 30+ years now. Dead enemies always drop loot. That's the main reason to kill them. That's the whole risk vs reward process.

 

Yes, I have seen a few games where dead enemies didn't drop loot or only dropped some junk loot with real loot reserved for raid/group/solo bosses. I'm sure the developers of those games had meetings where they discussed pros and cons. All of those games failed, with lack of loot being one of the reasons.

 

Whoever came up with this idea should really stop reinventing the wheel. There is a really good reason why dead enemies drop loot. BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE TO LOOT.

[SylenThunder]

I've been playing computer games for 30+ years now. Dead enemies always drop loot. That's the main reason to kill them. That's the whole risk vs reward process.

 

Yes, I have seen a few games where dead enemies didn't drop loot or only dropped some junk loot with real loot reserved for raid/group/solo bosses. I'm sure the developers of those games had meetings where they discussed pros and cons. All of those games failed, with lack of loot being one of the reasons.

 

Whoever came up with this idea should really stop reinventing the wheel. There is a really good reason why dead enemies drop loot. BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE TO LOOT.

I'd love to see proof that the games failed because of no loot, but that is irrelevant here.

 

 

Zombies will still drop loot in a17.

[Jedo]

Dead enemies always drop loot.

 

Yes, I have seen a few games where dead enemies didn't drop loot...

 

I'll just leave this here.

[meganoth]

Yes, I have seen a few games where dead enemies didn't drop loot or only dropped some junk loot with real loot reserved for raid/group/solo bosses. I'm sure the developers of those games had meetings where they discussed pros and cons. All of those games failed, with lack of loot being one of the reasons.

 

So Doom failed? I HAVE BEEN LIVING IN AN ALTERNATE REALITY !!!!!!!

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I've been playing computer games for 30+ years now. Dead enemies always drop loot. That's the main reason to kill them. That's the whole risk vs reward process.

 

It's true. Space Invaders would never have caused the famous yen shortage in Japan if it wasn't for the fact that the aliens drop such sweet loot when you shoot them.

[Tin]

So Doom failed? I HAVE BEEN LIVING IN AN ALTERNATE REALITY !!!!!!!

 

It's true. Space Invaders would never have caused the famous yen shortage in Japan if it wasn't for the fact that the aliens drop such sweet loot when you shoot them.

 

I guess we can add L4D 1&2 to the list as well.

[Reth]

And, of course, one thing never changes - fanbois always come out en mass to defend the insanity. Yep, seen that one too.

[Jedo]

And, of course, one thing never changes - fanbois always come out en mass to defend the insanity. Yep, seen that one too.

 

Not a single one of those comments was a defense. All of them were attacks against your claim, showing that it is false.

 

What remains is for you to erect a new defense for your argument.

[OzHawkeye]

And, of course, one thing never changes - fanbois always come out en mass to defend the insanity. Yep, seen that one too.

 

How about "people" coming out to counter a stupid post by you?

 

ALL games that didn't have loot dropping like a pinata failed? Really? ALL of them? You've personally been across EVERY SINGLE game that fit that category and can name, vouch for and provide links showing their immediate AND PROXIMATE decline due to this decision? You've polled EVERY single player of ALL of these games to verify the causal link between the lack of loot and the subsequent failure of the game?

 

You make unsupported sweeping statements, don't be surprised if you get called out for it.

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

Not a single one of those comments was a defense. All of them were attacks against your claim, showing that it is false.

 

What remains is for you to erect a new defense for your argument.

 

Generally, when someone resorts to calling the people who disagree with them dismissive names such as "fanboi", it's a good indication that they're run out of such defenses.

[Kattla]

Loot is good.

More loot is better.

Less loot is worse.

[SylenThunder]

Generally, when someone resorts to calling the people who disagree with them dismissive names such as "fanboi", it's a good indication that they're run out of such defenses.

I was really hoping he would provide a link for a case study on it.

 

 

 

And in case anyone forgot, it's confirmed that zombies still drop loot in a17. Just not as much, or as much trash.

[Jedo]

Loot is good.

More loot is better.

Less loot is worse.

 

That looks like logic. However, it is filled with assumptions.

[bloom_meister]

I was really hoping he would provide a link for a case study on it.

 

 

 

And in case anyone forgot, it's confirmed that zombies still drop loot in a17. Just not as much, or as much trash.

 

In Rolands words ''its currently very rare'' so yes, they drop loot, just like occasionally my other half says ''you know what, I think i am going to let you play games all weekend whilst I bring you coffee and snacks'', when it happens its nice, but it doesn't happen much!

 

On a slightly more serious note, I have asked detailed questions relating to the removal of vital components from zombies such as duct tape, bones, oil etc etc to see if the removal of this loot has been compensated for by reducing the amount required in recipes that use them OR/AND changing those recipes to either no longer require them or to use other more easily looted items instead.

 

If you/TFP would answer this very simple question it would shut down a ton of the worry and don't say you don't know because someone either thought this through carefully and knows the answer or you did not change the recipes in which case its gonna be a problem.

 

So calm down the masses and answer the above please

[Jedo]

The masses will find something to rage about, so don't pretend that the answers to those questions will be the magic fix. (I'm not saying that this is why TFP shouldn't answer your questions, just that the result likely will not be what you present it to be.)

 

Also, it's currently very rare for people to win the lottery. That fact has not changed their participation in it.

[bloom_meister]

The masses will find something to rage about, so don't pretend that the answers to those questions will be the magic fix. (I'm not saying that this is why TFP shouldn't answer your questions, just that the result likely will not be what you present it to be.)

 

Also, it's currently very rare for people to win the lottery. That fact has not changed their participation in it.

 

The answers to the questions will in fact calm a lot of people down, please stop making excuses for TFP, the answers can be good (we considered it and have amended recipes and other drops) or bad (oh we didn't bother changing anything else) or indifferent (good point we will look into that) but either way, it will help a lot of people by communicating solid information rather than 'they still drop loot' which is frankly a BS answer that ignores game mechanics.

[Roland]

Well from what I've seen the recipes that required duct tape still all require duct tape (for example) but I can also say that despite not getting a single roll of duct tape off of any zombie I killed I have more duct tape than I remember ever having before. The trash heaps and cars and backpacks seem to me to have better loot in them and I have felt zero lack. Two poi's I visited had carcasses that I harvested for a ton of bones.

 

Seems fine to me.

[bloom_meister]

Well from what I've seen the recipes that required duct tape still all require duct tape (for example) but I can also say that despite not getting a single roll of duct tape off of any zombie I killed I have more duct tape than I remember ever having before. The trash heaps and cars and backpacks seem to me to have better loot in them and I have felt zero lack. Two poi's I visited had carcasses that I harvested for a ton of bones.

 

Seems fine to me.

 

Thankyou for some (subjective) feedback Roland, if you get a chance please try and get a more definitive response if that's possible

[Jedo]

The answers to the questions will in fact calm a lot of people down, please stop making excuses for TFP, the answers can be good (we considered it and have amended recipes and other drops) or bad (oh we didn't bother changing anything else) or indifferent (good point we will look into that) but either way, it will help a lot of people by communicating solid information rather than 'they still drop loot' which is frankly a BS answer that ignores game mechanics.

 

Oh Lordy.

 

"will in fact calm"? It's not a fact that when people's worst fears are confirmed that they often continue to rage? A dispassionate presentation of information always reduces the rage of those who dislike change? If that's what you think, then clearly you have more learning to do.

 

"making excuses for TFP"? Again, how is questioning logic in anyway related to TFP? My posts in this thread this morning all have been pointing out flaws in logic. It has nothing to do with one side's position or the other. I don't care whether TFP answers your questions. I don't care what those answers are. You made demonstrably false statements, and I called them out.

[bloom_meister]

The clue is in your location Jedo, Roland gave me most of the answer, you may now post more, got my answer so argue pointlessly with someone else

[meganoth]

Two poi's I visited had carcasses that I harvested for a ton of bones.

 

Oh, we didn't have carcasses before, right? So there is a new loot container in A17, with bones in it.

 

For bones it is conclusive evidence that they amended drops

[Jackelmyer]

Well from what I've seen the recipes that required duct tape still all require duct tape (for example) but I can also say that despite not getting a single roll of duct tape off of any zombie I killed I have more duct tape than I remember ever having before. The trash heaps and cars and backpacks seem to me to have better loot in them and I have felt zero lack. Two poi's I visited had carcasses that I harvested for a ton of bones.

 

Seems fine to me.

 

That was my biggest concern with the new zombie loot system. "Where the hell do I get bones now?". Way to keep them thinking hats on tight TFP. Nice!

 

I for one will be glad to see zombies not piling up. Not having to spend damn near a day of nothing but looting and chopping up bodies just to get the place cleaned up.

 

Though...

 

It will be a visual bummer to not see the remains of my slaughter. It was one cool thing about the end of a horde night. All the... whatever the meat piles were called... Dead zombies littered about the place. It was kinda cool. I get that there are trade offs. I just hope we don't keep trading off character elements of the game until it's just another COD zombie map. :-/ Watching Madmole play, seemed like zombies poofed away pretty quick after they were killed.