An in depth discussion on zombie loot in alpha 17

[Shiana]

Seriously, SylenThunder, you are one of the worst mods ever. First calling a user "dim" because YOU didn't read/understand my whole post ("almost" no loot at first, the second no loot is clearly an exaggeration after that first call), and then threathening to close a discussion in a forum because its a ... (non constructive) discussion?

 

Go out for a smoke - or whatelse, and COOL DOWN. Else you might get a heart attack by reading the posts in this forum....

[Jedo]

Well, if it doesn't stop, the discussion will get shut down.

 

It's not constructive at all.

 

I respectfully lodge my disagreement. Incremental gains. Do what you must.

 

Seriously, SylenThunder, you are one of the worst mods ever. First calling a user "dim" because YOU didn't read/understand my whole post ("almost" no loot at first, the second no loot is clearly an exaggeration after that first call), and then threathening to close a discussion in a forum because its a ... (non constructive) discussion?

 

Go out for a smoke - or whatelse, and COOL DOWN. Else you might get a heart attack by reading the posts in this forum....

 

*ahem* SylenThunder didn't call you dim. Another user did that. (I tend to agree with that user on this point, but that's a different matter.)

 

At any rate, SylenThunder probably is correct about the futility here. I see that reason is no cure for ignorance, and certainly a poor remedy for an emotionally-driven argument. I mean, just look at the new thread which has popped up, attempting to rehash the same thing again, grounded still in opinions and poor reasoning. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?86663-Why-TFP-keep-heading-down-the-wrong-design-paths

 

Alas, I had high hopes.

[skullpoker]

To be honest, you don't see survivors looting zombies in any movie or tv series like the Walking Dead, maybe very rarely, as far as I've seen in the walking dead. I agree, zombies should be a threat, not some loot containers. Those kids that don't like the change, they just love to make a drama out of it....like "Now nobody is going to like the game, they will lose all their players....blah blah blah etc..."

 

Well, sometimes. In Z Nation they sometimes have to find a specific person, probably undead, to get some item that they need to advance the plot. By the same token, most people in the world have coins, keys, credit cards, or other items in their possession that could be useful as scrap metals, scrap plastic, possibly a construction worker carrying hammers, wrenches, etc...

 

So in that sense, scarce loot or backpacks popping out of a corpse is immersion breaking. That Biker wasn't wearing a backpack, where did that come from?

[Jedo]

So in that sense, scarce loot or backpacks popping out of a corpse is immersion breaking. That Biker wasn't wearing a backpack, where did that come from?

 

A non-immersive implementation of the idea does not negate the fact that the idea is immersive in itself.

[Tin]

Seriously, SylenThunder, you are one of the worst mods ever. First calling a user "dim" because YOU didn't read/understand my whole post ("almost" no loot at first, the second no loot is clearly an exaggeration after that first call), and then threathening to close a discussion in a forum because its a ... (non constructive) discussion?

 

Go out for a smoke - or whatelse, and COOL DOWN. Else you might get a heart attack by reading the posts in this forum....

 

Why do you need to "Exaggerate"?

Why not state it for what it is?

YOU and others, want more loot from the zeds.

or

YOU and others, want the loot amount to remain the same.. then followed with the reason why.

 

Every time someone "Exaggerates" that zeds "don't drop loot anymore", which is false. It brings more ppl in, thinking there's no loot drops from the zeds. This thread has 16 pages already and most ppl are going to skim the posts. When most of the post are ppl exaggerating "there isn't any loot drops from zeds", it brings in more ppl to correct the "exaggeration" that they know will be jumped on by some.

You know this happens, you just accused Syl of just skimming posts and getting it wrong.

 

That's the cycle that keeps happening and it's not constructive.. there's no need to "Exaggerate" anything about zeds dropping loot or not dropping loot, They will still drop loot.. just not as often as you and others would like.

[SylenThunder]

I wasn't even skimming either. A large number of the people against the change, seem to have absolutely no grasp of the overall scope of it.

 

Their very words state "no more loot". Their comments are largely based on assumptions that there will no be any other balancing. That there is no other way to obtain the items except to get them from zombie loot.

 

These are all closed-minded emotional responses. They have no real value.

 

What's even worse is that you're all acting like it's "set in stone". They aren't done. You don't even know what other changes they have implemented.

 

It's not like this is new news either. The idea of zombie corpses going away was shown to us way back near the beginning of a17 development.

 

A further note, is that there will still be your loot drop rate option. You don't like the reduction turn that up. You don't like that, you can easily mod the game. You don't feel like figuring out how to mod? Give it a couple of weeks and someone will have one for you.

 

 

What about discussing the fact that this is a survival game? Less loot makes more sense to me.

 

 

As a last note, both Shiana and DragonFyre bring up a very good point. This game isn't designed for 60% of the servers out there. This game is designed for 8-player co-op. This is no an MMO. This is not PubG, Battlefield, COD, or what have you. It your own fault for going outside of what the game is designed for when you have issue that relate directly to those issues. If you have a lack of loot because there are 60 people playing on the server, then you have too many people playing on the server. I know this isn't news to you guys. I've been saying it for a long time.

[Jedo]

I regret my walls of text, SylenThunder. Teach me your ways of being concise. That post was a masterwork in getting straight to the heart of things.

 

Of course, I expect some replies explaining why their particular perspective/articulation is different from what you said.

[SylenThunder]

I regret my walls of text, SylenThunder. Teach me your ways of being concise. That post was a masterwork in getting straight to the heart of things.

 

Of course, I expect some replies explaining why their particular perspective/articulation is different from what you said.

“Yes, a Jedi’s strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.”

 

– Yoda

 

Sorry, we're straying from the topic. I couldn't resist.

[Gamida]

I don't seem the harm in any kind of discussion as long as it is civil. Isn't that the whole point of a forum. People will disagree for sure but if no one disagrees then it would be pretty boring in here . Again it has to be civil. You never know, you could end up agreeing with somethings you didn't think you would. Besides, a good discussion helps keep the mind off other things (release of update) and helps pass the time.

 

...aaaaaaand continue...

[Roland]

I just want to take an opportunity to disagree with SylenThunder since such opportunities come along so rarely.

 

A better way to test the new system is to just refrain from looting any zombies but keep loot at 100%. Give that a go just like how people do dead is dead of their own volition. Deny yourself all zombie loot and see how it plays. Then just imagine getting a tiny bit more than that. At the very least it will get you warmed up to the new normal (until it changes again)

 

Oh, and as a side benefit if you find you just don’t have the will power to stop yourself from checking those corpses then you’ll know you have a problem and maybe you need A17 to help you get that monkey off your back.

[Gamida]

Oh, and as a side benefit if you find you just don’t have the will power to stop yourself from checking those corpses then you’ll know you have a problem and maybe you need A17 to help you get that monkey off your back.

 

That sucks. Isn't that like having a drug problem but not being able to get the drugs to take that edge off...

 

 

(Note: Drugs are bad, Mkay)

[Roland]

That sucks. Isn't that like having a drug problem but not being able to get the drugs to take that edge off...

 

 

(Note: Drugs are bad, Mkay)

 

That’s what retrievable arrows are....

[Colin248]

I just want to take an opportunity to disagree with SylenThunder since such opportunities come along so rarely.

 

A better way to test the new system is to just refrain from looting any zombies but keep loot at 100%. Give that a go just like how people do dead is dead of their own volition. Deny yourself all zombie loot and see how it plays. Then just imagine getting a tiny bit more than that. At the very least it will get you warmed up to the new normal (until it changes again)

 

Oh, and as a side benefit if you find you just don’t have the will power to stop yourself from checking those corpses then you’ll know you have a problem and maybe you need A17 to help you get that monkey off your back.

 

oo.... that hit me all the wrong ways.

 

you know this reminds me of a game called the culling. where the designers decided to change what the game was in massive ways and expected people to like it. to just adapt. by changing it to the point people couldn't recognise it. altho they released culling 2 and that was just a realy ♥♥♥♥ty battle royal chaseing genre game, and completely alien to the first, thus killing off a any goodwill from remaining fans. off topic but still, might be worth bringing up.

 

my worry is that with this kind of a attitude Roland, funpimps are gona keep changing things with the base game till it isnt 7 days to die anymore. the game we have loved all this time. and they just expect us to deal with it, to adapt with the blows. go ask the culling fans what they did when the devs expected there fanbase to just flow with it.

[bloom_meister]

I don't seem the harm in any kind of discussion as long as it is civil. Isn't that the whole point of a forum. People will disagree for sure but if no one disagrees then it would be pretty boring in here . Again it has to be civil. You never know, you could end up agreeing with somethings you didn't think you would. Besides, a good discussion helps keep the mind off other things (release of update) and helps pass the time.

 

...aaaaaaand continue...

 

Sylen doesnt like any 'off message' discussions on gameplay and design even though this very topic is to discuss the...gameplay and design of A17...

 

Now if you want to post multiple times how everything is wonderful and in Fun Pimps we trust I can assure you, there will be zero problems

 

To be honest Sylen should look at Roland, thats a constructive, non aggressive, firm and yet humorous way to manage the sheep (I include myself in that)

[Roland]

I was just giving a better method of testing it. The largest chunk of voters say they are reserving judgement until they can try it. So go try it voluntarily right now in A16. Report back on whether refraining from looting zombies changed 7 Days to Die beyond all recognition for you.

 

At least that is a better foundation to place a soap box before standing up and preaching the Truth about what is good or bad game design. Then again my own soap box is firmly planted on the foundation of my own personal experience with it but that apparently is of no consequence to those who would rather rest upon speculation, worry, accusation, and guesses about what it will be like.

 

TFP have always moved to their own tune since the beginning. They always wanted this to be an open voxel world with crafting (Minecraft) Role Playing (Fallout) Zombie survival (The Walking Dead) game. The elevator pitch included those three parenthetical inspirations. The change in the zombie loot is definitely a step toward the Zombie Survival side of things.

[Colin248]

I was just giving a better method of testing it. The largest chunk of voters say they are reserving judgement until they can try it. So go try it voluntarily right now in A16. Report back on whether refraining from looting zombies changed 7 Days to Die beyond all recognition for you.

 

At least that is a better foundation to place a soap box before standing up and preaching the Truth about what is good or bad game design. Then again my own soap box is firmly planted on the foundation of my own personal experience with it but that apparently is of no consequence to those who would rather rest upon speculation, worry, accusation, and guesses about what it will be like.

 

TFP have always moved to their own tune since the beginning. They always wanted this to be an open voxel world with crafting (Minecraft) Role Playing (Fallout) Zombie survival (The Walking Dead) game. The elevator pitch included those three parenthetical inspirations. The change in the zombie loot is definitely a step toward the Zombie Survival side of things.

 

belive me i tryed, got to day 3 beating through a infested house. getting tons of levels and just random junk from the corpses. this was also a custom POI that had a ton of cabinets in it. from the zombies, i get enough to sustain me for a while without needing to resort to moldy bread or old sham samiches, but the supply is quickly dwindleing. this idea that zombies can be farmed for perfect loot is, quite frankly, total bollocks. from the christ ton of cupboards i looted, i got... 10 scrap, some cans, and empty jars.

 

part of my worry comes from the stagnant amount of loot you get from containers. the only worthwhile stuff to loot tend to be the store specific boxes. like shamway, or pop n pills. zombie loot is so varied that, %75 of the time you will get total tripe, but still handy stuff, 20% handy items to always collect, and the %5 is the good ♥♥♥♥ like weapons and ammunition.

 

but. again. i too voted to give this a try before i judge so harshly. im just makeing sure my concerns are noted. and if im wrong, well, then i have the grace to admit i was wrong and learn from it. and, as you put it roland, adapt.

[Jedo]

Sylen doesnt like any 'off message' discussions on gameplay and design even though this very topic is to discuss the...gameplay and design of A17...

 

Now if you want to post multiple times how everything is wonderful and in Fun Pimps we trust I can assure you, there will be zeroproblems

 

To be honest Sylen should look at Roland, thats a constructive, non aggressive, firm and yet humorous way to manage the sheep (I include myself in that)

 

Instead of being butt-hurt and spreading your anguish all over the forum, grow up and get over it. Maybe try something like this:

 

I respectfully lodge my disagreement. Incremental gains. Do what you must.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

im just makeing sure my concerns are noted.

 

Oh my goodness. The concerns of everybody who is against this change are noted. More than noted. The people in the console forum have noted it. The people in the ARK forums have noted it. We got it.

[RussianMafia]

Oh my goodness. The concerns of everybody who is against this change are noted. More than noted. The people in the console forum have noted it. The people in the ARK forums have noted it. We got it.

 

LOOL

[Roland]

belive me i tryed, got to day 3 beating through a infested house. getting tons of levels and just random junk from the corpses.

 

That is actually the opposite of what I was suggesting.

 

 

part of my worry comes from the stagnant amount of loot you get from containers. the only worthwhile stuff to loot tend to be the store specific boxes. like shamway, or pop n pills. zombie loot is so varied that, %75 of the time you will get total tripe, but still handy stuff, 20% handy items to always collect, and the %5 is the good ♥♥♥♥ like weapons and ammunition.

 

Loot is different than in A16. Did you notice in the video that Joel was still full up on much of the random stuff you get from zombies? That is with zombies dropping him no loot and only half the cupboards being lootable. TFP will make sure (eventually) that the game is balanced for loot.

 

but. again. i too voted to give this a try before i judge so harshly. im just makeing sure my concerns are noted. and if im wrong, well, then i have the grace to admit i was wrong and learn from it. and, as you put it roland, adapt.

 

Cool. And you might not be wrong-- for you. Even if 90% of the community says, "Okay TFP, you balanced it well and we do like the changes" but you still hate it you aren't wrong. For you, this will have been a detrimental change and hopefully there will be a way around it if that is the case. Modders won't know what they can do until they get it.

[PiercedFromWithin]

You know... I seem to remember a strikingly similar discussion a little over a year ago....

[Colin248]

That is actually the opposite of what I was suggesting.

 

 

 

 

Loot is different than in A16. Did you notice in the video that Joel was still full up on much of the random stuff you get from zombies? That is with zombies dropping him no loot and only half the cupboards being lootable. TFP will make sure (eventually) that the game is balanced for loot.

 

 

 

Cool. And you might not be wrong-- for you. Even if 90% of the community says, "Okay TFP, you balanced it well and we do like the changes" but you still hate it you aren't wrong. For you, this will have been a detrimental change and hopefully there will be a way around it if that is the case. Modders won't know what they can do until they get it.

 

i cant resist the call of loot, my main point being how more... lucrative looting corpses, even if they can be empty are, compared to a POI with plenty of cupboards in it. as you say, loot is different, but in the video i didn't see it. i saw less containers with fancier looks to them (when he got to the kitchen of the farmhouse.) and filled with the same loot tables as before. he opened the *unsearched* fridge and found.... ♥♥♥♥ and all.

 

and your right. altho i like to consider myself someone who can adjust and adapt with changes, but not unnecessary ones, or ones that can ruin the flow of the game play. i dont know if this is the case. come to think of it, this entire case is... kinda redundant isnt it till we get our hands on it. tho believe me when i say, the reason i started this was entirely selfless. im worried for a game i adore. and have adored for 16 alphas. and whilst i can say ive been disappointed to changes such as the gore block system getting scraped, and with wellness hitting the can, nothing has made me this... hrm... emotional, then with the change to the looting flow. this one change has made me say, "hold up, you sure you wana do this? "

[Roland]

You know... I seem to remember a strikingly similar discussion a little over a year ago....

 

Yep, and look at all the mods out there that reversed that hot topic. /s

 

TFP literally left everything in the code to allow modders to bring back spam crafting and yet....

 

[Roland]

i cant resist the call of loot, my main point being how more... lucrative looting corpses, even if they can be empty are, compared to a POI with plenty of cupboards in it. as you say, loot is different, but in the video i didn't see it. i saw less containers with fancier looks to them (when he got to the kitchen of the farmhouse.) and filled with the same loot tables as before. he opened the *unsearched* fridge and found.... ♥♥♥♥ and all.

 

and your right. altho i like to consider myself someone who can adjust and adapt with changes, but not unnecessary ones, or ones that can ruin the flow of the game play. i dont know if this is the case. come to think of it, this entire case is... kinda redundant isnt it till we get our hands on it. tho believe me when i say, the reason i started this was entirely selfless. im worried for a game i adore. and have adored for 16 alphas. and whilst i can say ive been disappointed to changes such as the gore block system getting scraped, and with wellness hitting the can, nothing has made me this... hrm... emotional, then with the change to the looting flow. this one change has made me say, "hold up, you sure you wana do this? "

 

Understandable and TFP is grateful to those like you who are cautiously willing to give it a try. Remember that there is usually a good month of experimental before stable comes out and giving feedback based on gameplay will be a much more convincing way to TFP as they consider whether they will keep this going forward or revert it back.

[Kalarro]

I love loot in games, but I dont like excess loot. And I hate to leave anything unlooted. So the change sounds good to me.

[Colin248]

Yep, and look at all the mods out there that reversed that hot topic. /s

 

TFP literally left everything in the code to allow modders to bring back spam crafting and yet....

 

 

spam crafting? you mean the whole, level up skills by crafting several hundread clubs/clothes/ what ever? im honestly surprised there was a fuss over that. XD was silly in the first place.