An in depth discussion on zombie loot in alpha 17

[skullpoker]

Gore blocks don't make or break the game for me, but they were a great way to raise your Blade weapon skill. In that sense, it might be against the Dev's vision to develop Blade skill and possibly level by chopping up gore blocks.

 

Either way, performance optimization is good for everyone.

[Guppycur]

Just because the director has to cut out a scene of the movie or film it in a slightly different way because of budget constraints doesn't mean that the end product is not their "vision." It may not be their "ideal vision," but it is their vision nonetheless. After all, they made the choice about how to adapt to the new approach, regardless of the factors which motivated the need to adapt.

 

Not to say their vision hasn't changed over the years, but they've made enough effort and attempts to have working loot drops in their previous alpha's, and have talked about it in their videos, to substantiate my "theory".

 

That being said, I don't mind, I just don't see the need for subterfuge.

[bloom_meister]

No treestumps = no free night vision goggles!!

 

Nightvisongate is ON Roland, you're gonna be sorry....

[Roland]

Yeah it's a phenomenal waste of time.

 

So you ARE okay with doing things that are phenominal waste of time.

 

I wouldn't be talking at all if A17 were out. I've got idle hands because it isn't out and I tend to respond when posted at. If nobody fought me on the subject I would have made one post about my point of view and left it at that, but everyone keeps coming out of the woodwork like "you're wrong" "you're stupid" "this is actually a good decision" "there are no possible factors to worry about" "I don't understand what you're getting at with (gigantic detailed explanation)"

 

My only beef is that you apparently stopped with the disclaimer and now just run with the basis that there is no loot. I don't like it because then I have to work harder setting people straight who do a google search and see your post with no disclaimer and then tell their friends that zombies have no loot anymore. So if you don't mind, please DO keep stating your disclaimer if you are going to continue to engage in this particular activity or please go do the forum equivalent of riding around on a minibike until A17 arrives because this conversation is basically exactly what you are afraid might happen in the game with horde night.

[bloom_meister]

So you ARE okay with doing things that are phenominal waste of time.

 

 

 

My only beef is that you apparently stopped with the disclaimer and now just run with the basis that there is no loot. I don't like it because then I have to work harder setting people straight who do a google search and see your post with no disclaimer and then tell their friends that zombies have no loot anymore. So if you don't mind, please DO keep stating your disclaimer if you are going to continue to engage in this particular activity or please go do the forum equivalent of riding around on a minibike until A17 arrives because this conversation is basically exactly what you are afraid might happen in the game with horde night.

 

Roland,

 

With respect, genuinely, Eidos opinion, which he/she states calmly but forcefully, is just as valid as anyone elses and I dont see you asking people on the other side of the fence to add ''PS. I might be wrong'' to all of their posts on this topic.

 

Lets be evenhanded here mate.

[Roland]

I don't like that once again, the game has been made easier and the world more static by having my ability to search a body removed.

 

I don't care about lower chances of loot (but still maintain that if there is loot, it should be something worthwhile) but I do care that I now kill a zombie then no longer have to WONDER if there is something cool on him... No longer have to CONSIDER dangerously going back in to find out...

 

...my choice has been handed to me on a backpack platter.

 

Yawn.

 

Quit gimping the game please, thank you. I'm sure there are better solutions to performance issues.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

...might as well just put a floating bar over the zombie letting us know there's no loot...

 

You are correct in one sense but (at least for me) the removal of the on-screen text more than makes up for it. You will STILL be wondering whether there will be a bag drop WHILE you are fighting the zombie. So the sense of wonder is still there for most of the engagement. The only place it is removed is after the zombie dies. True that you don't have to do the extra step of pressing E like the on-screen text tells you to but the other part of what you said has been drastically increased. Now you have to consider dangerously turning your back on the zombie because you cannot always tell if it is dead dead or not like you could before.

 

No onscreen text allowing you to pick its pockets by pressing E? ---> Not Dead

Onscreen text appears? ---> I can loot that sucker before he even falls to the ground

 

In fact, I kind of reject that going back was even dangerous because it was ALWAYS easy to tell when it was safe to do so.

 

Having played it I can say that the danger is more pronounced now, the wonder and hope for possible loot is still there from the moment you engage the zombie, during the battle, and up until you see if a bag dropped or not.

 

Was it purely for performance and dupe avoidance? Yes.

Was the byproduct a happy result? Yes. I love the result. But I'd be happy with an increase in bag drop probability as well.

[Roland]

Roland,

 

With respect, genuinely, Eidos opinion, which he/she states calmly but forcefully, is just as valid as anyone elses and I dont see you asking people on the other side of the fence to add ''PS. I might be wrong'' to all of their posts on this topic.

 

Lets be evenhanded here mate.

 

The other side is affirming what the devs have said which...never mind. You guys might be wrong too.

[Guppycur]

Those moments when you were fighting a wondering horde and had a few killed, but then see the glowing cop... and you thought to yourself... "I could run, or I could take a few chances and loot those zombies on the ground..."

 

Gone.

[bloom_meister]

You're right Roland, after all these years I have never seen a dev state something incorrect on here......

 

[Jedo]

Those moments when you were fighting a wondering horde and had a few killed, but then see the glowing cop... and you thought to yourself... "I could run, or I could take a few chances and loot those zombies on the ground..."

 

Gone.

 

The threats in this game have shifted over time. Instead of possibly getting rekt while trying to do a last minute loot, you might get rekt by trying to do a premature loot. So?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

You're right Roland, after all these years I have never seen a dev state something incorrect on here......

 

 

They have, but they don't go repeating it over and over and over again.

[Roland]

Those moments when you were fighting a wondering horde and had a few killed, but then see the glowing cop... and you thought to yourself... "I could run, or I could take a few chances and loot those zombies on the ground..."

 

Gone.

 

Not completely gone IF you killed them with arrows. Anytime you want that feeling back use arrows or bolts and once again you will think to yourself "I could run, or I could take a few chances and loot those zombies on the ground of their arrows..."

[Guppycur]

Jesus. Now you're stretching it; I think the kool-aid has gotten to your brain.

 

The PROPER response to this entire nonsense would have been:

 

We decided to lower the loot spawns on zombies and remove the entities as loot containers, as they were affecting performance more than we had liked. We hope to re-visit this in the future once optimizations are complete.

 

Period.

[Xtrakicking]

I personally don't like the sound of random backpacks popping out of zombies, if they have loot, after killing them. Either let me loot their corpse or don't, but popping containers with loot sounds very cheap, in my opinion.

 

I'm not saying the new system is gonna suck. It may end up being a good decision, and it may end up being fun and better, I wouldn't know since I haven't tried it, but to be honest it doesn't look or sound like a good or otherwise attractive decision so far. All I know is that I like the feeling of killing a soldier zombie, to then loot it and find something cool; and now that's not gonna be the case anymore.

 

Now killing a soldier zombie won't feel any different than killing a crawler, except for obviously the amount of ammo you're gonna waste on one of them compared to the other, and that's the biggest issue.

[Xtrakicking]

Not completely gone IF you killed them with arrows. Anytime you want that feeling back use arrows or bolts and once again you will think to yourself "I could run, or I could take a few chances and loot those zombies on the ground of their arrows..."

 

This may apply during the first days, but what happens when you don't use arrows anymore?

 

*Zombie cop appears*

 

"I could run, or... ah *** it, what's the point?"

 

It's obvious to me that they are trying to rationalize and legitimatize a performance decision by making this up like "hey guys, you always hated looting zombies and destroying gore blocks, right, RIGHT????"

 

Damnit I liked it.

 

I also can't be the only one that liked the corpse blocks. It was cool to throw a pipe bomb to a horde, kill a bunch of zombies, then seeing the body count when the gore blocks appeared. Now zombies just *pop* and they're gone... Just like animals do, instead of leaving the cool looking gut remains gore block they used to have.

 

I was actually hoping slightly that one day TFP would make it so we could even burn the corpses, like they do in the movies or tv shows. Fat chance now, I guess.

[Guppycur]

Some of my favorite screens are of the killing fields after a horde night...

[Roland]

Jesus. Now you're stretching it; I think the kool-aid has gotten to your brain.

 

The PROPER response to this entire nonsense would have been:

 

We decided to lower the loot spawns on zombies and remove the entities as loot containers, as they were affecting performance more than we had liked. We hope to re-visit this in the future once optimizations are complete.

 

Period.

 

You mean like this?

 

Was it purely for performance and dupe avoidance? Yes.

 

1) Zombies can't be looted. This was changed for performance reasons and to solve myriad duping exploits.

 

I'm not stretching anything. I'm giving you my own feelings after having played it. You want to dismiss my hands-on impressions as just "koolaid" because your conjecture and assumptions are....more real? more authentic? No...I know what it is. You want to shoehorn this issue in with your whole "dumbing down the game" narrative that you yourself like to spin. Has dumbing down happened? Yes. I think that's obvious. Is this particular issue about that? Not even close and if anyone has a bunch of koolaid they're mixing up to try and serve the community it's you trying to make this be about them intending to dumb down the game.

 

And I've been honest about this from the start.

 

I have stated before several times that the purpose was for optimization and solving the duping issues. That is exactly what was announced to me. I have stated before that I was disappointed in the news and didn't think I would like it.

 

Then I played with it and once the initial adaptation wore off I found that I liked it. I didn't miss checking every corpse for loot or cleaning up bodies and I did like retrieving my arrows from them. I really liked the side effect of not being entirely sure when they were finally dead for good. On the rare occasion a loot bag dropped it was a happy moment. While I fought zombies, the wonder about whether there would be a loot drop was still there. I still earned xp from killing zombies so there was still a reward for doing it especially when I knew I was close to a level up. I will pause at this point and say that I don't generally like that kind of meta where you are thinking about leveling up instead of just playing the game so even though I feel the incentive and do feel excitement when that level up sound triggers I don't think it is a good thing for the game. I'd be very happy if the blue xp bar were removed from the main screen.

 

But hey--- go ahead and try to marginalize my perspective by casting me as some robotic yes-man who dishonestly spins issues because that is my job. I've always striven to be intellectually honest in my assessment of the game and design choices I like or dislike. Privately you tell me you trust me and appreciate my perspective but publicly when it suits your own view I notice you like to set me up as "that company man the community really can't trust because he's got a script he's working from."

[Guppycur]

Well no, I mean like this:

Not completely gone IF you killed them with arrows. Anytime you want that feeling back use arrows or bolts and once again you will think to yourself "I could run, or I could take a few chances and loot those zombies on the ground of their arrows..."

 

...so I gotta spin around 3 times clicking my red heels while the moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with mars, just to get a marginalised experience of something I like?

 

To quote the great burton guster, "c'mon son..."

 

You're better than that. THAT, I trust.

[Roland]

Whatever Guppycur... I wouldn't characterize shooting zombies with your bow and arrow as doing some difficult to pull off magical ritual though maybe it is for you. <shrug>

 

I can't speak for anyone else. Perhaps you will hate it and feel a deep sense of loss not being able to loot zombie corpses. I can't say that you won't. I will say that in my experience the fun of retrieving arrows from zombies before they disappear while fighting a wandering horde is more than enough compensation for the loss of opening a container menu at each body to see what I might get. Maybe you'll end up agreeing with me and maybe not. But it is my true experience and when I line up the loot I might get from 10 zombies in A16 with all the arrows I retrieve from 10 zombies in A17 I'm going to have to say that I'm getting better value in general with A17. Yes, that's early game and that might not be true if someone doesn't use arrows or bolts later.

 

But it is my true experience and I resent the idea that you like to spout off that Joel sends me some kind of talking points memo about how to spin stuff to sound better for TFP.

[Jugginator]

All I know is that I already like it. For one, when I kill a zombie or two on the move, these things happen and usually in order:

1. I don't want to loot it and keep moving to where I need to be going too

2. Remembering that theres a possibility of loot being on the corpse and saying ♥♥♥♥ it it's prob an empty can or some wood or other bs I don't need

3. Running past it then saying "God damnit fine the gore block's going to forever be there, clogging up the memory"

4. Throwing a skirt on the ground because I don't need it then chopping the block up so it goes away

5. Kill a zombie that comes up

6. *sigh*

 

If the chance of bs loot is gone and only a rare drop that's in a neat back-pack, you'll stop freaking out about missing your epic garbage and having to destroy goreblocks. Stop stressing the small stuff and be happy. And I'm pretty sure they thought of missing bones and animal fat when they did it and plan on balancing something to compensate. Chill.

[Jedo]

Well no, I mean like this:

 

 

...so I gotta spin around 3 times clicking my red heels while the moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with mars, just to get a marginalised experience of something I like?

 

To quote the great burton guster, "c'mon son..."

 

You're better than that. THAT, I trust.

 

I see that there's no mention of Pluto in there. That's messed up.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

But it is my true experience and I resent the idea that you like to spout off that Joel sends me some kind of talking points memo about how to spin stuff to sound better for TFP.

 

Do you really believe that of Roland, Guppy? I expected better of you. You know that Joel doesn't have a PR bone in his body (and now you couldn't harvest it even if he did).

[Roland]

I should’ve said that Rick sends me...

[Guppycur]

I see that there's no mention of Pluto in there. That's messed up.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Do you really believe that of Roland, Guppy? I expected better of you. You know that Joel doesn't have a PR bone in his body (and now you couldn't harvest it even if he did).

 

No, but I do believe Roland is having a bad day, so I'm cool with dropping it.

[wildaxeman1]

i like looting deads, but it is sometimes too easy. getting less loot with better quality may be good desicion. we will see, how it turns out. i can not say yes or no right now.

[cnconrad]

You mean like this?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not stretching anything. I'm giving you my own feelings after having played it. You want to dismiss my hands-on impressions as just "koolaid" because your conjecture and assumptions are....more real? more authentic? No...I know what it is. You want to shoehorn this issue in with your whole "dumbing down the game" narrative that you yourself like to spin. Has dumbing down happened? Yes. I think that's obvious. Is this particular issue about that? Not even close and if anyone has a bunch of koolaid they're mixing up to try and serve the community it's you trying to make this be about them intending to dumb down the game.

 

And I've been honest about this from the start.

 

I have stated before several times that the purpose was for optimization and solving the duping issues. That is exactly what was announced to me. I have stated before that I was disappointed in the news and didn't think I would like it.

 

Then I played with it and once the initial adaptation wore off I found that I liked it. I didn't miss checking every corpse for loot or cleaning up bodies and I did like retrieving my arrows from them. I really liked the side effect of not being entirely sure when they were finally dead for good. On the rare occasion a loot bag dropped it was a happy moment. While I fought zombies, the wonder about whether there would be a loot drop was still there. I still earned xp from killing zombies so there was still a reward for doing it especially when I knew I was close to a level up. I will pause at this point and say that I don't generally like that kind of meta where you are thinking about leveling up instead of just playing the game so even though I feel the incentive and do feel excitement when that level up sound triggers I don't think it is a good thing for the game. I'd be very happy if the blue xp bar were removed from the main screen.

 

But hey--- go ahead and try to marginalize my perspective by casting me as some robotic yes-man who dishonestly spins issues because that is my job. I've always striven to be intellectually honest in my assessment of the game and design choices I like or dislike. Privately you tell me you trust me and appreciate my perspective but publicly when it suits your own view I notice you like to set me up as "that company man the community really can't trust because he's got a script he's working from."

 

 

 

As I assume you remember I am 100% against the removal of zombie loots. (Granted im not as active as I use to be but im a vet here)

 

It changes the game in a way I do not care for. But, i understand that there are forces that we do not see. I certainly hope this gets revisited if possible but I do appreciate that you are being honest about it being a necessary evil.

 

I cant blame you for trying to put a positive spin on it. After all telling us that you guys made the change to zombie loot even though it was not something anyone wanted or asked for, but were forced to because of limitations and then focusing on all the negative aspects of the change will not make anyone any happier.

 

We can bitch and moan about things we don't like but you as a mod/representative do need to be a bit more open minded and tactful when discussing changes. You cant just vent like we do.

 

So I will continue to dislike this change, i wont hold it against you for trying to show some positives.

 

Edit: There is that more clear? I think you were reading a tone into my post that was actually the opposite of what i meant.

[bloom_meister]

But it is my true experience and I admit that Joel sends me some kind of talking points memo about how to spin stuff to sound better for TFP.

 

There ya go, fixed it for ya!