Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[BunnyNZ]

So in your analogy, who or what is the gasoline?

 

...and more importantly, a month or so back, you mentioned you'd be posting more about rwg? =) (least, I think it was rwg, but you DID say you'd post more about something.)

 

/shoutout to BunnyNZ

 

Squeee o/

[Doctor3D]

You could always just make it a option in the GUI section of the options and then you could enable/disable it according to your preferences but I agree that even with it enabled you shouldn't be able to see it until you do damage to the mob.

 

Yep. That would at least be an agreeable compromise for me - but should appear when YOU hit\shoot the zombie - not a trap or another player.

 

I don't like just being able to scan in the dark and see the health bars and know the identity of each zombie and how much health they have. What's worse is when you have traps further out and some of them have taken damage from the traps as they approach- you would then be able to simply prioritize based on the varying health status of the mob. If I see two cops both running towards the base, and both have already taken some trap damage from the outer perimeter- but one has lower health than the other - I would widdle down the other one so that they both die on the inner perimeter defense spikes as they approach. I don't want to have to think and play that way it would be too gamey. But, it would be silly not to do it if the bar is right in front of you..

 

BTW: Thanks for taking time out on memorial day to upload a vid and give us an update.

[Guest Rassilon]

@Madmole.

 

Thank you for the Video. Was nice to see you beeing scared and the better working guns ( compared to last time ).

The Trees really add to Immersion now.

 

You sounded pretty... snappy, when you talked about us asking for a realease date.

I really get you. You and your Team work their Ass off since Months and when you go to the Forum, there are lots of Complaints. You even take your Time on Weekends to make those Videos if i notice that correctly. Respect!

 

That beeing Said, please note the following things

1) You changed your Method in Communication drastically in comparsation to A16. At this time, we had double the amount of Videos

2) This results in a felt slower Development, when the Opposite is the Case.

3) You told us pretty early that you stocked up your team wich raised Expectations in a faster Process, while we are now longer waiting for A17 as we did for A16.

 

Dont get me wrong here, Take the time you need but 3) collides with 2) here

Maybe you could do in the future 1 Video per Month. Doesnt have to be long.

 

Could be a trip through a new POI like this awesome Church you have been in, or just cruising around with the Jeep and give us some Meat-Pieces where you tell us how things are going in general

[Gnomaana]

I just want to say it right now. Everyone that posts anything close to "It's July, where is experimental?" or "MM promised up Experimental, it's July." should get a permanent ban from the Forums because they are too stupid to expose the rest of us to their bs.

[Pico]

The Z health bar is hugely 'immersion breaking', and I hate it. Can't believe nobody else has thrown those words back at Joel so far.

 

If the bar was to stay, I'd prefer it was semi-transparent, just a ghost of a bar, and not in bright red, and maybe underneath my belt, not up near eye level.

 

Edit: I've been playing Borderlands lately, and the mystical swirling of light from the use of elemental weapons gets really over the top, and often completely obscures my view of the targeted enemy, with my only guide to their location being their damned health bar that shows through the elemental fog. Stupid.

[Gnomaana]

@Madmole.

 

Thank you for the Video. Was nice to see you beeing scared and the better working guns ( compared to last time ).

The Trees really add to Immersion now.

 

You sounded pretty... snappy, when you talked about us asking for a realease date.

I really get you. You and your Team work their Ass off since Months and when you go to the Forum, there are lots of Complaints. You even take your Time on Weekends to make those Videos if i notice that correctly. Respect!

 

That beeing Said, please note the following things

1) You changed your Method in Communication drastically in comparsation to A16. At this time, we had double the amount of Videos

2) This results in a felt slower Development, when the Opposite is the Case.

3) You told us pretty early that you stocked up your team wich raised Expectations in a faster Process, while we are now longer waiting for A17 as we did for A16.

 

Dont get me wrong here, Take the time you need but 3) collides with 2) here

Maybe you could do in the future 1 Video per Month. Doesnt have to be long.

 

Could be a trip through a new POI like this awesome Church you have been in, or just cruising around with the Jeep and give us some Meat-Pieces where you tell us how things are going in general

 

I never felt development was slower. I read the list of proposed changes and, if they do make A17 experimental in July, it will beat my personal estimate by 2 or 3 months. The communication method changed for me just like everyone else so that can't be why it seemed slower.

 

Edit: I would prefer more communication from devs but after reading the crap they put up with every time they come on the forums I can't really blame them for slowing it way down.

[Aldranon]

I actually like the health bar. I like the rpg feel of it. Maybe they can have it show only after you hit target? So you can't just scan a area with your weapon to see all zombies if you know what I mean.

 

Unless they want to make a dozen or so skins for each zombie so you can see the damage you have inflicted, I would say keep the bars too.

 

You might not see a zombie in the dark, but I'm sure you can smell them! Consider them Smell Bars that just happen to show zombie health!

[Pichii]

Teehee, dogs are cute with armor...

 

+1 Yes please - distant howling and/or barking noise at hordespawn can't be impossible to implement.

 

Trolls aside, if you take 1x1 barb wire and stand in it with a medic pack handy, your armor skill will become level 5. 3xbarbed wire and youll be armor level 10.

Armor is insanely good vs zombies.

 

The reason I mention this is because if your armor level is 10, packs of dogs will not insta-kill you.

 

The trick with them babies is well, reflexes. They suck at hitting anything above ankle level so jumping causes them to miss 90% of the time.

 

If you are mining and get hit and your inate reaction is JUMP, you can actually live and kill them all. Ive survived day 40 in basic gear vs a 20 dog pack around 0,0... Just gota git gud.

 

PS:I would also like it if the dogs barked beforehand. THey dont ALWAYS do so specially if they recently spawned. Their howls are very bassy comparatively to the rest of the zombie noises.

[dhlmaster]

Notice that when he actually hit a zombie with the club it would impact dead on in the same spot? I'm finishing setting up impacts so the timing is dead on. I'm bothered by the frame skipping in some of the melee swings as well. Some is the keyframing, some import settings, some just having too fast of a movement in between. It's on the polish list for sure though

 

Also APM is the new way we control melee attack speed (Attacks Per Minute). If you rewatch the video, watch the club swing when he's stunned, the swing is half speed.

 

I love it! Getting stunned will be so much more lethal now, because you won't be able to fight back very well.

[Freshmint]

Notice that when he actually hit a zombie with the club it would impact dead on in the same spot? I'm finishing setting up impacts so the timing is dead on. I'm bothered by the frame skipping in some of the melee swings as well. Some is the keyframing, some import settings, some just having too fast of a movement in between. It's on the polish list for sure though

 

Also APM is the new way we control melee attack speed (Attacks Per Minute). If you rewatch the video, watch the club swing when he's stunned, the swing is half speed.

 

That's great the hear. Yes I believe it impacted the same spot, but with no movement or shutter of the body. I guess its just a few inconsistency's where it sometimes works but other times it doesn't(like when the zombie is stunned on the the ground). Mo-cap can be tricky as the animation has to finish before another hit animation occurs, but i guess some rag doll effects could be mixed in to smooth it out both when the zombie is standing and on the ground. Absolutely about the timing on weapons and good news that this is being worked on.

 

Will watch the video again. The APM is a great addition which adds a lot of variety to different weapons rather than them being same same.

[DaVegaNL]

So I guess MadMole started his Let's Play videos, huh?

 

I'm not so sure mentioning a potential release date for the Experimental version was such a good thing though.

[Guest Rassilon]

I just want to say it right now. Everyone that posts anything close to "It's July, where is experimental?" or "MM promised up Experimental, it's July." should get a permanent ban from the Forums because they are too stupid to expose the rest of us to their bs.

 

+1

This Mentality of said people is why we cant have nice things

[Roland]

So I guess MadMole started his Let's Play videos, huh?

 

I'm not so sure mentioning a potential release date for the Experimental version was such a good thing though.

 

Heh...it does make my job more interesting...

 

Joel mentioning any kind of tentative release date is like fixing the zombies so they dig again. But I was glad to replace the ambiguous bar with a nebulous date.

[Roland]

Trolls aside, if you take 1x1 barb wire and stand in it with a medic pack handy, your armor skill will become level 5. 3xbarbed wire and youll be armor level 10.

Armor is insanely good vs zombies.

 

The reason I mention this is because if your armor level is 10, packs of dogs will not insta-kill you.

 

The trick with them babies is well, reflexes. They suck at hitting anything above ankle level so jumping causes them to miss 90% of the time.

 

If you are mining and get hit and your inate reaction is JUMP, you can actually live and kill them all. Ive survived day 40 in basic gear vs a 20 dog pack around 0,0... Just gota git gud.

 

PS:I would also like it if the dogs barked beforehand. THey dont ALWAYS do so specially if they recently spawned. Their howls are very bassy comparatively to the rest of the zombie noises.

 

Your very first post has taught me.

 

Thank you good sir and welcome to the forum!

[DaVegaNL]

I just want to say it right now. Everyone that posts anything close to "It's July, where is experimental?" or "MM promised up Experimental, it's July." should get a permanent ban from the Forums because they are too stupid to expose the rest of us to their bs.

 

Yeah. That. Or you could just say that you think it wasn't a good idea of MM to mention a potential release date.

[DaVegaNL]

Heh...it does make my job more interesting...

 

Joel mentioning any kind of tentative release date is like fixing the zombies so they dig again. But I was glad to replace the ambiguous bar with a nebulous date.

 

Hehe. Well at least you don't have to do the work on the forum-bars anymore. That was quite repetitive I guess?

I'm just imagining the faeces-storm when July hits..

[Death2gnomes]

I just want to say it right now. Everyone that posts anything close to "It's July, where is experimental?" or "MM promised up Experimental, it's July." should get a permanent ban from the Forums because they are too stupid to expose the rest of us to their bs.

 

I vote we ban you now.... to the inside of a Kleenex box so you dont run out of tissues crying about what everyone else says. I expect my quote to be, "It's August, where is experimental".

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Your very first post has taught me.

 

Thank you good sir and welcome to the forum!

 

what he didnt mention is that Zombies and sneak up on you with absolute stealthiness.

[KingSlayerGM]

@Roland, be honest:

how relived do you feel now that you don't have to manage that hp bar?

[Aldranon]

You mean simply scaling up the HP? Why would we want that?

Beggars in daedric armor are so 10 years ago.

 

But a beggar that finds the Navajo Ordnance Depot! Make that THE mother of all POI's, The Dukes HQ and center of operations! If you could just steal a jeep load of ammo...

[eidobunny]

You mean simply scaling up the HP? Why would we want that?

Beggars in daedric armor are so 10 years ago.

 

I'm not sure I understand your response. Is it directed at me or the person I was responding to?

 

I was arguing against scaling HP based on gamestage because it just nullifies the progression you worked so hard for. Oh hey I got a new axe and I upgraded my melee skill but zombies have more HP now so it still takes 3 hits to kill them, what was the point in progressing? Kinda just destroys an entire dimension of the game if you do that imo.

[Xeen]

Yeah zombies sneaking up on you with absolute perfect stealth is broken and they know the footsteps sounds aren't working, I'm just trying to figure out if they did it on purpose or not.

The truth is I get a good jump scare out of it every time.

 

I asked for a more comprehensive sound control system and I was shot down directly by the devs on it, I think it may have even been MM himself and I think it's the wrong decision but he owns the studio/game and he can do what ever he wants regardless of the consequences.

[DaVegaNL]

I would like to hear something about the 'stealth-meter/bar' we see above our stamina & health bars. We've been seeing it for the past ~6 months in videos, but haven't heard anything about it.

[sillls]

One thing that bothered me about the latest video was when Madmole was swinging his club at that downed biker zombie. It would not make contact with it. Instead he was cutting the grass. He swung at least three times and each time he hit the grass. It was very annoying to watch.

[The Batman]

Q: - Would the devs ever consider slowing combat down?

 

AKA eliminate running and increased attack speed while hitting for regular zombies (Most important during horde nights)

 

I think right now speed is the most dangerous factor on horde nights. Having 12+ or more zombies speed hitting your walls, your brains or your lovely placed potatoes. Besides sniping barfing cops, what most players do is try to slow zombies down by using barbed wire / electric fences to remove the speed out of the equation. So that we have more time to kill, hug or commit seppuku in peace.

 

I feel if we could take away the speed, add in more complex mechanics / different AI, it would enable much more fun gameplay (opinion).

It 'could' allow for much less base repairs needed after horde night. Or make it easier to die during one due to new mechanics.

 

Now if you have adequate walls (countering zombie speed factor with time of the HP of walls) and enough shotgun shells combined with a run & gun mentality you are basically god. And every horde night ends the same. With 500 less bullets, empty first aid kits, damaged walls and a repair bill that outshines Americas healthcare ones.

 

What we could do with slower combat is:

- Add more randomness, like with the new feral versions of zombies already in game. (When not every zombie runs but when one does you'll be suprised)

- Add random special events that would require different tactics to survive.

- New zombie AI or mechanics would force players to build smarter instead of just -trap- trap - wall - wall - wall.

- Reward team play much much more than just 2 shotguns shooting instead of 1.

- Allow different classes to really shine on different occasions.

- Put more focus on surviving in general. Taking focus away from combat being 90% of the work (during horde nights). --> Increasing importance of farming / crafting / building / teamwork / exploring.

 

Batman,

[Jost Amman]

Remove/hide the hp bar!!

 

I agree with those who've said it's gamey.

A perception skill should be needed or something.

 

I foretell that the HP bar will become for A17 what the broken stealth was for A16.

So little needed to ruin a true gem... please fix that before A17 release!!