Darkfoxx117 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 So are you saying that there will be rubber in the game now? If so, what existing items will this be added to? What new things are we going to be able to make with them? Will we be able to grow them? Will they grow wild? If so what biomes? I think he was joking.... a slash '/' can mean someone is messing about or being sarcastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 So are you saying that there will be rubber in the game now? If so, what existing items will this be added to? What new things are we going to be able to make with them? Will we be able to grow them? Will they grow wild? If so what biomes? Sorry. Just some old guy reference humor. Gotta know Doris Day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betam4x Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I wonder if we'll get new textures to play with for the paint tool. I would love some 'clean' versions of some of the existing textures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillls Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 lol. You guys are such clowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonstorm Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 AI Yes, they will innately just attack you. There will be NPCs that are friendly, neutral, and hostile. We call the hostile variety "bandits". Perhaps, we are bandits to them philosophically but then again they are just following AI coded subroutines without any free will to decide to do other than they've been programmed to do so I wouldn't normally waste any philosophical breath on their nonexistent point of view of anything. I'm an AI racist that way. When's West World starting up again....? My pet part of any game is the quality of the AI. Many games get around lack of AI by doing PVP multiplayer, or scripted linear "set piece" programming. Back in the days of Delta force, they would be pretty targets standing by buildings or in watchtowers. The goal to aim for is not only believable reactions, but also tested tactics dependent on equipment, situation, terrain, and aggressiveness (faction) to the player. Zombies should be easier as only situation and terrain are variables. Bandits however are a huge task. As an example take a look at these notes of a mod that just tweaks an existing AI, its a good representation of things to consider. http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=24080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamBake Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Sorry. Just some old guy reference humor. Gotta know Doris Day... "Just what makes that ant think he can move a rubber tree plantt....CAUSE HE"S GOT HIIIIGH HOPES!!" Some of us may even be older than you Roland . It's nice to know my demographic is represented. People get frustrsted waiting for alphas....I had to wait for cartridges while playing Pong, and Discs while playing cartridges, and step-wise 3D while playing 2D side-scrollers. I could go on ad nausea but you get the point! Open Letter to Future Lifetime Gamers: Develop patience now it goes a long way toward avoiding strokes. LOL I love this f-ing game in all of its iterations and frustrations. Rejoice that TFP actually care about quality and sit back and enjoy the ride. Someday it will end. For now, it just keeps on going, and I for one am so very glad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdunham3 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 My pet part of any game is the quality of the AI. Many games get around lack of AI by doing PVP multiplayer, or scripted linear "set piece" programming. Back in the days of Delta force, they would be pretty targets standing by buildings or in watchtowers. The goal to aim for is not only believable reactions, but also tested tactics dependent on equipment, situation, terrain, and aggressiveness (faction) to the player. Zombies should be easier as only situation and terrain are variables. Bandits however are a huge task. As an example take a look at these notes of a mod that just tweaks an existing AI, its a good representation of things to consider. http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=24080 Best "AI" I've ever seen was in F.E.A.R. (not its sequels, though) They'd duck, go around to flank you, yell to each other and generally make you feel like you weren't the only intelligence in that game world. Turns out it was mostly smoke and mirrors and preset points in the map that they'd look for if they were shot at or trying to path, but it was fantastic smoke and mirrors. Seems like most POIs could have probable "duck and cover" points tagged for bandit-type mobs to use. Beside doorways, behind desks, that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 A good ai is a really hard task. A few years ago spend some time in this topic, but not from the point of view of a Programmer, instead i started that topic from the Point of view of a "Project Reality" player who had around 3000-4000 Hours as Squadleader. Highest priority i see is that the Bots must be denyed to shoot through trees and other obstackles player cant see through. This was the biggest problem about bots in Battlefield 2. Simplest AI would be to make Pairs/Squads. One fireteam attack straight and/or take cover. The other fireteam try to flank. And even this can be complicated in a Voxel world without rules the AI can be sure of. (as example there is maybe only one entrance to a Fortress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieToad Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Some more ideas here - - Can we have campfires that actually sit on the ground? Check campfires on some gravel, grass, and, well any ground, and it sometimes sinks through the foor. - Running around earlier I ended up managing to stave off hunger and thirst with blueberries. Scrambling for iron and clay to forge up a cooking pot, I thought, why not be able to make blueberry juice! I don't know what stats you'd stick on it but a nice jar of blueberry juice would give us a nice new drink and another option for the berry besides eat straight, herbal anti, and pie - Could we perhaps see player made hanging traps? That is to say a 5 high column of wood with a diagonal pole on it with rope to snag the zombies? - Talking of traps, I really would love to see bear traps - I think it's been mentioned before. Great addition. - Some other guy mentioned nicer painting as opposed to the shabby worn down decor of the post apocalyptic tat we have now. It makes complete sense. Look at the wood floor, the red one, it's immaculate. Also, provided we mixed up some paint decently, we should have much better final products. I know its zombie apolcalypse but making the place look like home in a fully constructed base makes all the difference. - One animal no one mentioned (I think) that would make a nice addition, and give us a great one piece of meat, and something that would literally be everywhere - rats! A little salt and vinegar too would be nice... - One other melee weapon I'd like to see, a fire extinguisher. We could loot them from fire stations. - Fire. The ability to torch a building would be great. I would love to be able to fire bomb houses, flaming arrow them with sleepers inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcsobral Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Thats why i invest around 30 hours of cpu time after a wipe to pregenerate the complete world. Check the vanilla visitmap command for that Oh, so *that's* what visitmap is supposed to do? How do you use it? I tried using it, without success. EDIT: Gah. I didn't expect the next two pages to be full of the same question and answers to it. Can't see how to delete the post, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betam4x Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Best "AI" I've ever seen was in F.E.A.R. (not its sequels, though) They'd duck, go around to flank you, yell to each other and generally make you feel like you weren't the only intelligence in that game world. Turns out it was mostly smoke and mirrors and preset points in the map that they'd look for if they were shot at or trying to path, but it was fantastic smoke and mirrors. Seems like most POIs could have probable "duck and cover" points tagged for bandit-type mobs to use. Beside doorways, behind desks, that sort of thing. AI is hard. A lot of the seemingly "smart" AI you see is scripted. Level designers, developers, and story writers know the levels as they exist in popular games so they can present the illusion of a smart AI. This is quite a bit harder to accomplish in an open world game where players can manipulate the world. Take a look at any RTS game and you'll quickly see the limits of AI. Pathing issues, etc. all become very real. Example: if paths A and B are the same length and take the same time to get through, which one do I choose? What if one path is shorter, but the other path has traps? IMO zombies aren't supposed to be all that smart to begin with. Maybe it's time to make them 'dumb' and just go for the player in any way possible. Can't get to the player? If the player is 'above', break down any structure that may be supporting that player. If the player is below, attack the entry point the player frequents and move down. The 'breadcrumb' system has been mentioned in the past and would work well for underground bases. Stilts would get knocked off from stilt bases (NOTE: they already somewhat do this from experience). The biggest thing of all: The mind should be collective. Let them work together instead of independently attacking. They all want food after all. For bandits: I imagine a real, decent implementation of bandits is going to take a bit more work than people realize. RandomGen needs to be polished as much as possible so that bandits can easily pathfind their way around without getting *stuck* (for instance, they run off the road, but the roads for many seeds are currently cliffs, so how do they get back on the road?). A final question I ask you all is, should the player really be the target of bandits and zombies? If the player does not exist, IMO the world should still live and breath. Zombies should sniff out the bandits and attack them just as they do the player. Maybe the trader even has to fight his own battles and is no longer invincible. Imagine having to save the trader from an attack! Don't save him? He may or may not live. Depends on his weaponry and the strength of the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 Any time a game can have different factions that don't necessarily focus on the player so that the player feels like a small part of a larger world rather than the center of the universe it makes the world seem more real and alive. Coming upon a deserted bandit base is meh... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base is fun... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base currently under attack by rival bandits or a zombie horde is amazing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcsobral Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Would the visitmap command help against RWG changes on update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Any time a game can have different factions that don't necessarily focus on the player so that the player feels like a small part of a larger world rather than the center of the universe it makes the world seem more real and alive. Coming upon a deserted bandit base is meh... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base is fun... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base currently under attack by rival bandits or a zombie horde is amazing... IS? amazing...or would be? hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepiggio Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Any time a game can have different factions that don't necessarily focus on the player so that the player feels like a small part of a larger world rather than the center of the universe it makes the world seem more real and alive. Coming upon a deserted bandit base is meh... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base is fun... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base currently under attack by rival bandits or a zombie horde is amazing... This is exactly why I do not like the Blood Moon every 7 days. The Blood Moon makes you constantly repair & fortify your base if you have one, sometimes I just go Nomad. Going Nomad I tend to avoid a lot of it just hiding somewhere & exploring. I feel the game was a lot more immersive before the Blood Moon was implemented. The adding of Sleepers was a better approach if you can stop them from respawning over & over again. If you kill all of them & lay down a SB or CB they should not come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Any time a game can have different factions that don't necessarily focus on the player so that the player feels like a small part of a larger world rather than the center of the universe it makes the world seem more real and alive. Coming upon a deserted bandit base is meh... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base is fun... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base currently under attack by rival bandits or a zombie horde is amazing... How do you know it's amazing.... Have you seen an event such as this before? Hmm? HAVE YOU? HAVE YOU SEEN IT ROLAND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 would be. You conspiracy theorists simmer down now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhlmaster Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Would the visitmap command help against RWG changes on update? As far as I know, once the chunks are loaded, they are saved, and they would remain the same even if you changed your rwg file. The problem I have run into in the past is that if you you change your rwg file after generating part of the world, your distant view may not match what is actually there. I believe the game may be constantly checking what rwgmixer says should be there as you view things from a distance, then loading the actual chunk from the savegame file when you approach. I could be wrong about this. I have been playing around in a game where I had done some tweaking of values in the rwgmixer after the initial startup, and I ended up seeing one POI at distance, then having it turn into a completely different POI when I approached. Everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I compared a 16.3 and 16.4 RWG map. looks similar. But no Guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I ran into two factions fighting in FO4. I'm not sure it was suppose to happen, maybe two different scripted missions smashed together and I sat back and watched! The corsair was hostile but once I killed him the last raider (the one legendary raider with power armor) and sinths got along just fine with me. I was role playing so if no one is hostile I leave them alone. Roland is right, it is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhlmaster Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I ran into two factions fighting in FO4. I'm not sure it was suppose to happen, maybe two different scripted missions smashed together and I sat back and watched! The corsair was hostile but once I killed him the last raider (the one legendary raider with power armor) and sinths got along just fine with me. I was role playing so if no one is hostile I leave them alone. Roland is right, it is awesome! I run into a lot of battling factions in FO4. I had a pretty epic battle this morning. Ended up in the middle of a scuffle between two large groups, super mutants vs. raiders. I was picking away at both sides when a B.O.S helicopter showed up and started attacking everyone, including me. Shot it down. And turned some poor sap's back yard into a barbecue. I would love to see some good multiple-faction warfare like that in 7 Days to Die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrakicking Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Any time a game can have different factions that don't necessarily focus on the player so that the player feels like a small part of a larger world rather than the center of the universe it makes the world seem more real and alive. Coming upon a deserted bandit base is meh... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base is fun... Coming upon a fortified and defended bandit base currently under attack by rival bandits or a zombie horde is amazing... Honorable examples: Red Dead Redemption. There's a reason it's the n؛1 Rockstar game for a lot of people. The interactions between NPC's, factions and the world around you is something I've never seen any other game get even close as good as RDR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphite Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Totally wild thought after looking at the AITarget class list mentioned in another thread was having supply planes that actually land that are used for mass item transport sounds really interesting to me. Making the player having to build runways and giving the plane limited fuel could add to difficulty where the players needs to be at the take off to load the items and LZ to receive items. If you were not at LZ location or solo then the plane would circle the LZ drawing more and more enemys until it runs out of fuel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Can sleepers just be tied to Loot Timers? This would solve the re-spawn problems and could be on a 1 to 3 day timer unless you visit the POI again, then the timer would restart. In this method you could actually "clear" a large POI and keep it clear if you moved in(skyscraper). The timer reset radius could be 60 blocks horizontal and infinite vertical. Land claim would work the same way, that way you could take long excursions away from your base without worry. Like the sleeping bag but on steroids. Limit one land claim per player. So if you want to move you have to take or destroy your previously laid land claim. Multiple people could take over a city! Of course the Player Claim Area for a base would be smaller(like it is now) than the Timer Reset Radius. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBeaver Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Can I get the ability to adjust terrain block height with a tool, maybe right click on the shovel? Maybe take 1 dirt to do it? If I can't do it live, let me use the reload wheel to pick a set height from several options? The terrain engine can generate and preserve blocks at multiple heights, collapse a prefab onto the ground to see it make terrain lumpy and the game remember. But when I'm making ground I only get the option on/off. It just frustrates the creative side a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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