Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Jackelmyer]

Wrong or right there are going to be decisions made by the developers that some people aren't going to like. As far as I know there are zero plans to put a craftable block that is 100% impenetrable by zombies.

 

Want to build a tower without risk of it being ripped apart by zombies?

 

1) Mod the game

2) Disable zombies or

3) Play Minecraft

 

Console players will get 2 out of 3 of the options...

 

I'm sorry, why not have options in game settings to enable/disable certain types of zombies? Things don't always have to be so black and white.

 

That's rather ridgid Roland. The games got big camps on both sides of this argument. TFP would be best off making an effort to accommodate both.

[Royal Deluxe]

No panic Jackelmyer. I am sure there will be a option in stable (or a mod in the Steam Workshop)

 

This now is the first phase when 2 meanings clash. And if we get a decent diskussion both sides will have arguments that lead to the best solution for the Vanilla game. And mods/options for both more extreme sides.

 

Edit:

And additional i think Roland/Tfp dont mean really so huge damage.

[Roland]

I'm sorry, why not have options in game settings to enable/disable certain types of zombies? Things don't always have to be so black and white.

 

That's rather ridgid Roland. The games got big camps on both sides of this argument. TFP would be best off making an effort to accommodate both.

 

There already are two game options for this. Disable spawning or Increase Block Durability to 200%.

[Jackelmyer]

No panic Jackelmyer. I am sure there will be a option in stable (or a mod in the Steam Workshop)

 

This now is the first phase when 2 meanings clash. And if we get a decent diskussion both sides will have arguments that lead to the best solution for the Vanilla game. And mods/options for both more extreme sides.

 

Edit:

And additional i think Roland/Tfp dont mean really so huge damage.

 

For the record I am looking forward to the behemoth. . I just want to make sure it's possible for players to work up to a sanctuary still. Where resources and storage can be kept in peace. If that's underground because a behemoth can't get to it, fine. If that's in a traditional base but behemoths only come on blood moons late game? Totally fine.

 

I'd very much rather a screamer NOT bring out behemoths. That's just not cool. Something like that is to be prepared for. Not flippantly tossed onto players at random.

[Demonoid74]

Wrong or right there are going to be decisions made by the developers that some people aren't going to like. As far as I know there are zero plans to put a craftable block that is 100% impenetrable by zombies.

 

Want to build a tower without risk of it being ripped apart by zombies?

 

1) Mod the game

2) Disable zombies or

3) Play Minecraft

 

Console players will get 2 out of 3 of the options...

 

Yes but 3) imagine the people REALLY bitching and crying when the creepers blow up their uber base and cool houses

[dcsobral]

something else i would like to see in a17 for the vulture is the ability to knock a player down, which means if you were hiding up on the iron bars or cliff killing defensless zombies the vulture would knock you down from there.. that would be neat as hell.

 

QA people are so sadistic...

[Jackelmyer]

There already are two game options for this. Disable spawning or Increase Block Durability to 200%.

 

Still seems overly ridgid.

 

Disable spawning: I.E. turn the game into a higher end graphic version of Minecraft and lose a large majority of paid content.

 

Increase Block Durability to 200%: More viable but I don't think that's going to pan out as now I believe you've also just made mining harder.

 

Just saying we need to try and move away from two ridgid camps and find common ground. Especially on an issue so widely argued, with large followings on both sides.

 

I'm all for a challenging game. I'm simply hesitant to do something that completely makes Tower Defense aspects of the game no longer functional. That's kind of one way of looking at "winning. You're out fighting for your resources early until you've built an indestructible base. Then you get to go build whatever you want knowing what you've gathered over time is safe. It's a reward. All the while, still having urgency. Jump scares. Risk.

 

You may think risk is only viable when you have everything to lose.

 

For some, especially when gaming, risk can simply be dieing and having to run back and get your bike. Doesn't matter what my base is like. It's still a risk I avoid.

[Crater Creator]

It's worth repeating that the Behemoth can't change the game through high stats alone. It can only change the game with an improved AI. Otherwise it's just another guy spinning in circles under your stilt base or over your underground base, who happens to be really big.

 

Perhaps the desire to reach a level of absolute safety really stems from the lack of any other defined win condition. Imagine inventing the zombie cure, overthrowing the Duke of Navezgane, or reaching an extraction zone. I've brainstormed about eight different ways the zombie apocalypse could come to a satisfying conclusion. I don't know if that's right for this game, but it would provide a more directed ultimate goal than reaching the point of "boredom" & wanting to restart.

[sillls]

While I don't mind blocks being destructible. I think that some should have more endurance to them. Stone for example, should be much harder to break than wood.

[Crater Creator]

While I don't mind blocks being destructible. I think that some should have more endurance to them. Stone for example, should be much harder to break than wood.

 

I'm not following you. This is exactly what blocks with different hit point values provides. A block of flagstone takes 500 punches to destroy, whereas a wood block takes 300 if you count destroying the frame.

[BunnyNZ]

I would like to see an extra BIG vulture, which when it sees you comes down, picks the player up, and flies away with said player. Screen goes black and you are teleported to a random place on the map (where it dropped you). Extra cool when it happens on a horde night!!

[Jackelmyer]

It's worth repeating that the Behemoth can't change the game through high stats alone. It can only change the game with an improved AI. Otherwise it's just another guy spinning in circles under your stilt base or over your underground base, who happens to be really big.

 

Perhaps the desire to reach a level of absolute safety really stems from the lack of any other defined win condition. Imagine inventing the zombie cure, overthrowing the Duke of Navezgane, or reaching an extraction zone. I've brainstormed about eight different ways the zombie apocalypse could come to a satisfying conclusion. I don't know if that's right for this game, but it would provide a more directed ultimate goal than reaching the point of "boredom" & wanting to restart.

 

I agree. Some more discernable goals would be nice. Though I also really love the sandbox aspect of the game which, hard direction and game driven goals can really hinder. TFP really hasn't even hit the hard part of building this game imo. To maintain the Sandbox aspects, while providing goals, requires at least a few completely optional objectives.

 

I think people are forgetting one of the biggest draws of this game is entirely Minecraft Sandbox play that you can test your creations against. It's that goal that most players who wanted something more out of Minecraft vanilla finally got.

 

And if you don't agree with that, then...

 

Why is the only indestructible block bedrock?

Why do we mine to get the best building and core materials?

Why do we have so much variety in what we can build?

 

The games built firstly around a completely destroyable world.

The games secondly built around destroyable blocks that provide building and crafting resources.

Zombies, AI, everything, is built on those two things.

 

I firmly believe that's the big draw that got people into 7D2D. That plus real fighting and real defense.

 

I should also probably share that I have the flu and am essentially dysfunctional and delirious. I'm pretty sure I have a midget with a shotgun sitting next to me, angrily keeping the clowns away. But... He's not my friend... Or.. it's a pillow... I dunno.

[sillls]

I'm not following you. This is exactly what blocks with different hit point values provides. A block of flagstone takes 500 punches to destroy, whereas a wood block takes 300 if you count destroying the frame.

 

Well instead of that it sould be set for something like this:

 

wood: 500

Flagstone: 4,000

[Royal Deluxe]

Well instead of that it sould be set for something like this:

 

wood: 500

Flagstone: 4,000

 

i hope not

If i remember right it is impossible to give blocks more than 31000 Hp without issues

If this is true we need in the case of a Rebalance a better use of lower values.

 

Else it is nearly impossible to offer player really sturdy blocks to prevent serverjumping rule breaking (china)raiders

3 Raider with a Auger can allready break every possible defense in a few minutes

 

Means reduce Blockdamage at all by 50% and give a 300 HP Woodblock only 150 HP

[sillls]

i hope not

If i remember right it is impossible to give blocks more than 31000 Hp without issues

If this is true we need in the case of a Rebalance a better use of lower values.

 

Else it is nearly impossible to offer player really sturdy blocks to prevent serverjumping rule breaking (china)raiders

3 Raider with a Auger can allready break every possible defense in a few minutes

 

Means reduce Blockdamage at all by 50% and give a 300 HP Woodblock only 150 HP

 

So we can add an armor value back to them. It was takin out back in Alpha 10 I think...

 

That way there's no need for crazy HP values.

 

Or they can lower the damage zombies and other players do to blocks.

[Kam R.]

Mutant condors.

[Royal Deluxe]

Armor value ? On Blocks ?

Would be perfect, i would need this for Zombies too.

[sillls]

Armor value ? On Blocks ?

Would be perfect, i would need this for Zombies too.

 

On zombies? You mean the ones wearing body armor or all of them?

[graphite]

I am quite new to the game and did do use the tactic of turning off spawning at the start as roland mentioned and block durability to 25 and then looting a city for 1 or 2 days and then digging a mine to use for a temp base and then turn spawning back on a block durability to 100.

 

This gave me a headstart but with no zombies you dont get make enough xp and they way the veins have changed mining (gravel) has made me think and experiment with different setups.

 

I may be slightly progressing difficulty with the game also and i am believer that you need to try and adapt to changes in the game.

 

Blocks down 25 isnt an option with zombies and town city poi's as far as i am concerned i expect damage and do a little to buildings myself sometimes but on 25 everything is far too destroyed early on to use this value with zombies.

 

But thats ok it has its other uses and i can try increasing it and also try different tactics.

 

I dont even bother trying to hold on to the wellness with me having so little gametime hours mines and dogs etc i have a high chance getting caught out by them so dying isnt that bad as long as you think about your respawn location and there is skillsets for min health to balance the just keep going tactic.

 

Personally i found building structures a steep learning curve and i was confused how loads where pathed to solid ground , yes i know the wiki explains it but i couldnt fully understand it that quickly.

 

Only really started to understand it by spending time in creative , i think trying to understand it in normal game even with zombie spawning low or off would taken forever.

 

I will be honest i dont understand the discussion about block health.

 

Armor for blocks?

 

SSteel already goes what is it 2 downgrades ,place one of them wrong on 200% and your sorry even with an auger.

 

I thought upgrade was block armor but maybe i just cant see your point from you perspective or experience.

 

Armor on zombies to make them more difficult ? i am really new to configs and this is likely a stupid suggestion but cant you give them a stun buff as they should be immune to the wellness modifier ?

[Royal Deluxe]

i want a way to balance the Weapons new. As example

1: Weak Western Revolver = Make good Damage against weak Zombies (Good HP Damage) but much less Damage against Heavy Zombies (weak Armour Penetration)

2: Modern weapon = Can use 3 Ammotypes Normal, AP, and Hp Damage. AP makes less damage but 100% of it hits strong enemys

Dependent on the Possibilitys of the engine.

 

Means rock-paper-scissors mechanic that need more tactical use of the weapons.

If it works as i imagine the player use 90% of the time, Crossbow, Bow, Blunderbuss and Pistol/Rifle Wild west alike. And rare Modern weapons and ammo only if needed. Actuall Gameplay is to much Arcade for me

 

Different armour values for different Body Parts would be perfect, but i take what i can get. At the moment it looks like i will use Buffs/Debuffs

[graphite]

i want a way to balance the Weapons new. As example

1: Weak Western Revolver = Make good Damage against weak Zombies (Good HP Damage) but much less Damage against Heavy Zombies (weak Armour Penetration)

2: Modern weapon = Can use 3 Ammotypes Normal, AP, and Hp Damage. AP makes less damage but 100% of it hits strong enemys

Dependent on the Possibilitys of the engine.

 

Means rock-paper-scissors mechanic that need more tactical use of the weapons.

If it works as i imagine the player use 90% of the time, Crossbow, Bow, Blunderbuss and Pistol/Rifle Wild west alike. And rare Modern weapons and ammo only if needed. Actuall Gameplay is to much Arcade for me

 

Different armour values for different Body Parts would be perfect, but i take what i can get. At the moment it looks like i will use Buffs/Debuffs

 

Just looking now are the decap rules are they something you can modify i know not the same as what you have described but with debuff/buffs also ?

[Darkfoxx117]

In A15 (not so much A16 due to zombie pathing) i would have my main base which was one layer thick concrete wall, so not impenetrable. And then i'd have my horde night/wandering horde fighting pit about 20/30 blocks away.

 

Yes the wandering horde might tap at your walls before you realise whats going on but then id just lead them to the fighting pit and let loose, you can even make catwalks over to it just in case they happen to turn up at night.

[WandererLV]

i want a way to balance the Weapons new. As example

1: Weak Western Revolver = Make good Damage against weak Zombies (Good HP Damage) but much less Damage against Heavy Zombies (weak Armour Penetration)

2: Modern weapon = Can use 3 Ammotypes Normal, AP, and Hp Damage. AP makes less damage but 100% of it hits strong enemys

Dependent on the Possibilitys of the engine.

 

Means rock-paper-scissors mechanic that need more tactical use of the weapons.

If it works as i imagine the player use 90% of the time, Crossbow, Bow, Blunderbuss and Pistol/Rifle Wild west alike. And rare Modern weapons and ammo only if needed. Actuall Gameplay is to much Arcade for me

 

Different armour values for different Body Parts would be perfect, but i take what i can get. At the moment it looks like i will use Buffs/Debuffs

 

You have got a nice point. Blunt weapons would work great on thin, weak, bony zombies but You would need a bladed weapon to cut through the Hawaiian shirt zombie and big momma.

 

The game is aching for a weaponry facelift. More variety, more ammo types would definitely increase the fun-factor for me.

The apocalypse is happening in 'MURICA - where are all the guns?

[Aldranon]

Strong Forts

 

The near (5-10 meters above) bedrock base is about as invulnerable as you can get. If you really want to min/max it then go for the near bedrock base that's also hugging the invincible trader wall!

 

Above ground you can do the stilt forts that are still pretty robust.

 

A more conventional yet strong surface fortress is also possible with 4 pits in a square, up to 10x10 meters (5x5 is best IMO), at least 20 meters below rock level deep, each pit separated by 1-5 meters of untouched rock. You place your castle in the middle, carefully, defending the non-pit areas with solid blocks of reinforced concrete. (I should take a picture, because the solid block pillars are what improves your SI so you can build up to any height)

[Gazz]

You have got a nice point. Blunt weapons would work great on thin, weak, bony zombies but You would need a bladed weapon to cut through the Hawaiian shirt zombie and big momma.

In realistic terms bladed weapons are awesome against unarmored opponents who can bleed.

 

Anything heavier or even armored (like a skull) and you are looking for a blunt weapon.

Medieval anti-armor weapons were maces and polearms, with and without spikes. The flanged mace is a classic example.

Cutting through metal armor (without instantly destroying the blade) firmly belongs in japanese cartoons.