Guppycur Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 People always look at the game as "it is now" without having the vision to look further down. "People can climb in a hole and be safe from zombies, and that's bad! We MUST have digging zombies!" ...well, in the current state of the game, I might agree. But the game isn't finished. When bandits open your hatches and lob grenades down, when you're digging and come across a mass grave of swarming zombies, when air needs to be recycled, or underground rad zones are found, or any other kind of threat is added to make underground dwelling "not safe", are we really going to need digging zombies? Psst... The answer is no, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna3921 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 That's not irony at all. What would be ironic is if they were that smart but they dug weird tunnels anyway because they knew it would piss you off... But then that brings up an interesting point. So if zombies could find your hatches and tunnels because of reasons (smell, zombie sense, sounds) and bashed those in and then just followed your own tunnels down instead of digging new ones then you'd be fine with zombie threats underground? Is it pretty much just the random tunneling you want to avoid? YES! At least it is for me. I don't have a problem with such things as bad air needing ventilation, toxic buildup from smoke/fumes from workbench, chem station, forges. Or any other natural causes. Those are the things that would let me go, it's part of real life. I play with a blending of reality and fantasy (if you want to call it that). Zombies aren't real, carrying tons of rock, cement, wood and such aren't real, but a world apocalypse with dangers from various sources could and would create different requirement. But some "thing" digging down and breaking out the foundation of a building causing it to collapse and destroy all that is in it, that I find irritating. So, for me it is yes, but others may not like that. We all play with different ideas, concepts, goals, and what we see as a threat varies from person to person. Bears ! I hate Bears! ! ! A zombie who is able to follow a breadcrumb to my hatch, doors, and go down the ladder to get to my base, then get inside is different. Yeah, it will trash it, bust up a lot of stuff, but not everything (hopefully). And I could go as far as putting in traps in case of a breach when I am not there or I can turn on if they start to come down when I am there working. I can think of different set-ups to hopefully protect my base, turrets, dart traps, even blade traps could be placed and sensors. Inside my tunnels, entrances to my various rooms is possible, but to do so around my underground base, I just did half the work for them by digging out to place my spikes, blades and such. I intend to go the surface and do my best to kill zombies, whenever I want to; and I will do so at various times. I just want the option to not have them crawl or dig through dirt, stone and bust out the sides, foundations and destroy SI without my being able to fight back. And that is what would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doombringer101 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 People always look at the game as "it is now" without having the vision to look further down. "People can climb in a hole and be safe from zombies, and that's bad! We MUST have digging zombies!" ...well, in the current state of the game, I might agree. But the game isn't finished. When bandits open your hatches and lob grenades down, when you're digging and come across a mass grave of swarming zombies, when air needs to be recycled, or underground rad zones are found, or any other kind of threat is added to make underground dwelling "not safe", are we really going to need digging zombies? Psst... The answer is no, by the way. Oh I like that mass grave idea for a poi using sleepers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna3921 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I like that. Structural Engineers gone bad, now working for the Duke! Guy with M.I.T. shirt: "Say there, that's some pretty building you got, yup. Wouldn't want something to happen to it now would you? Black Swan events happen all the time around these parts, funny its only the people who don't pay the Duke. Don't you think that's funny? I do. What do you think the odds of that happening are? Statistically impossible is what I say. So shall I put you in Duke's building safety program for a small fee, or Duke's free crematorium service?" LOL I can see that happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 YES! At least it is for me. I don't have a problem with such things as bad air needing ventilation, toxic buildup from smoke/fumes from workbench, chem station, forges. Or any other natural causes. Those are the things that would let me go, it's part of real life. I play with a blending of reality and fantasy (if you want to call it that). Zombies aren't real, carrying tons of rock, cement, wood and such aren't real, but a world apocalypse with dangers from various sources could and would create different requirement. But some "thing" digging down and breaking out the foundation of a building causing it to collapse and destroy all that is in it, that I find irritating. So, for me it is yes, but others may not like that. We all play with different ideas, concepts, goals, and what we see as a threat varies from person to person. Bears ! I hate Bears! ! ! A zombie who is able to follow a breadcrumb to my hatch, doors, and go down the ladder to get to my base, then get inside is different. Yeah, it will trash it, bust up a lot of stuff, but not everything (hopefully). And I could go as far as putting in traps in case of a breach when I am not there or I can turn on if they start to come down when I am there working. I can think of different set-ups to hopefully protect my base, turrets, dart traps, even blade traps could be placed and sensors. Inside my tunnels, entrances to my various rooms is possible, but to do so around my underground base, I just did half the work for them by digging out to place my spikes, blades and such. I intend to go the surface and do my best to kill zombies, whenever I want to; and I will do so at various times. I just want the option to not have them crawl or dig through dirt, stone and bust out the sides, foundations and destroy SI without my being able to fight back. And that is what would happen. This + Zombies that follow your own Tunnels you can defend, no Ghost Zombies coming out of massive rocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamida Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I find that the only people who use the word naught more than naughty are they who tend towards being haughty. In other words, Gammy, I think you're haught for using naught. (Don't be distraught) Now for a real answer if you feel you can handle the truth. Don't look if you are easily offended or disillusioned. The pimps very rarely follow the advice of any forum faction when it comes to implementing game design and gameplay choices. Even when they do they will alter it or possibly drop it later if it doesn't fit with what they want to do. Sometimes they implement something similar to what a mod was already doing or what was hashed out on the forums but there is no evidence of causality to believe they were influenced or inspired by those things. I can tell you that in many cases TFP had plans to do it long before a modder created it or someone in Pimp Dreams posted about it. They listen when there is a huge negative reaction and then make adjustments if it doesn't conflict with their own goals. If it is something they feel strongly about then the fans have to adapt and cope with it (or mod it out or in). Case in point, is the HUD. Removing the minimap and then later the food, water, and day and time were hugely unpopular. TFP added the day and time back in but have been firm on the rest of the HUD. Another example are timers. They used to be optional but TFP made them mandatory and then allowed people to reduce them by spending XP. Some accused the Pimps of caving in to the "few" who pushed for timers. What they didn't know is that it was always planned to make timers mandatory but mitigate them with skills and perks. They listen to aesthetics and visual and audio feedback from the forums. An example is the bob and sway that they reduced due to forum outcry and also there was a high pitched pinging sound that happened when you got stunned and they got rid of that thanks to feedback. The visual of the lava monster got changed thanks to the angry mobs. They also investigate bug reports by forum members. So are the Pimps swayed by our talk about game design and feature ideas? Not at all. They know what they want to do and while they might get distracted by forum talk of ziplines for a moment, they are not afraid to shrug off the spell and move back to their own vision. So is it pointless to talk about this stuff? No way. It is fun and it also leads people like Tin to try out crazy modding ideas that can have cool results. But we shouldn't get upset by forum members saying that they hope the underworld will always stay 100% safe or other forum members saying they hope there are zero 100% safe zones in the game because nobody is brainwashing the Bearded One in either direction. I am naught haught if that is what you thaught...um thought. Also your point seems to be that TFP probably only listen if the consensus is negative (and could impact sales which is weird because the ones making them have already bought game) instead of positive posts for something. But if bandits do it and place TNT on all the structural supports of his base and bury him in rubble he'll be back to pissing and moaning To be fair tho I think he will be safe in this respect, Gazz is not that sadistic Doom, you trying to reverse psychology Gazz so he does do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doombringer101 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I am naught haught if that is what you thaught...um thought. Also your point seems to be that TFP probably only listen if the consensus is negative (and could impact sales which is weird because the ones making them have already bought game) instead of positive posts for something. Doom, you trying to reverse psychology Gazz so he does do it Haha shhhh my will foil my cunning plan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I also want underground threats I can seek out. Subway tunnels with subway cars full of zombies. Basement levels of office buildings that are "dark and deep" so the biggest baddest zombies rule there and always run. Sewer systems that have raging hordes going through them because the masses fled there hoping to avoid the war and the plague. Underground parking garages that have zombies leaping/crawling out of cars behind you as you pass. Old caves that had whole communities dwelling in them at one point until the infection arrived. A guy can dream, can't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfbain5 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 This is a tempest in a teacup. Let the pimps implement what they plan before getting too bothered. In my experience they do things in a fair way with the means to mod away the parts you don’t like. (exhibit one: spam crafting “removal”) If the most they ever do is add back in a digging ability but keep it commented out I will be a happy underground dweller regardless of how they make vanilla. I’ll be playing Swiss cheese myself just for you [ATTACH=CONFIG]23104[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Skyscraper Nerd poling. Loot gathering. My flawless SMG (best gun in game for various reasons and +1800 damage a clip) always needs stuff. I try to connect adjoining skyscrapers, by making a perch lower down with hay bales and basically a diving board up near the roof of the other. Base jump! I end up destroying every car I can find as brass is always in short supply. I look for more traders on my minibike to buy 9mm's and SMG parts. But eventually, the lack of plot gets to me and I take more risks until, like my current game I have to stay at bedrock and defend my 4 containment chambers (look up "Extruder" I made on the forum). There I will die, trying to defend the world from the interdimensional invaders (my plot) Here's a pic of a 3x3 pit zombie extruder. Its more efficient than a 5x5 pit extruder. You just stand near that window, occasionally hit them with your spiked club and collect loot as they literally ooze out! https://7daystodie.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22410&d=1503639555 ...and in 'operation' https://7daystodie.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22412&d=1503639600 Make sure you nail the Z-cops with your SMG, they are about the only thing that does notable damage. (Kneel down, look up and shoot them in the head using short, controlled bursts) This I think emulates the point a lot make when saying not to drive people to play certain ways. You had the option to try boring ways to play. You found what you liked, regardless of those options existing. More options = more fun for everyone, even if some options are boring to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 That's not irony at all. What would be ironic is if they were that smart but they dug weird tunnels anyway because they knew it would piss you off... But then that brings up an interesting point. So if zombies could find your hatches and tunnels because of reasons (smell, zombie sense, sounds) and bashed those in and then just followed your own tunnels down instead of digging new ones then you'd be fine with zombie threats underground? Is it pretty much just the random tunneling you want to avoid? I haven't said that directly, but yes. Though I still don't want holes I'm going to randomly fall down as I'm out picking daisies. Enough of the damn broken legs. And can you imagine the out cry of Dead is Dead players not making it past day 49 because of pits left by digging? That'd be a cheesy way to die and no one wants that. But, I have said multiple times... "It'd be cool to see zombies running down my underground bases hall ways. Take off to my base defenses and light up my turrets." Just ideally not cops underground. Underground explosives are a bit much and over time will cause hell underground. But I do also want some way, something, that can hold my resources, like the crap ton of stone I dug out, and not be destroyed, so I can rebuild. Here... This is the list of what I don't want to deal with. * Probably the most important point. Constantly busy by zombies where I barely have time to dig resources and build. There has to be a way to catch a break to build up the resources especially for later game play. Maybe that's nothing more than screamers and wandering hordes getting nerfed and a gas powered turret I take with me mining. * Random holes in my world I fall down and break my legs or die in. * My world made into swiss cheese to the point it's hard to build. * Zombies popping up on the outside of my concrete walled room without me having a way to access them for defense. I.e. digging right up to my underground forge room. This still leaves plenty of room for zombies to come at me underground. Just avoid the above and you'll probably get more attraction to bringing zombies down below. - - - Updated - - - But if bandits do it and place TNT on all the structural supports of his base and bury him in rubble he'll be back to pissing and moaning To be fair tho I think he will be safe in this respect, Gazz is not that sadistic Please, like most wouldn't be pissing and moaning that a bandit flipped a switch and dropped their whole base to the ground. Pft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 When bandits open your hatches and lob grenades down, when you're digging and come across a mass grave of swarming zombies, when air needs to be recycled, or underground rad zones are found, or any other kind of threat is added to make underground dwelling "not safe", are we really going to need digging zombies? At the risk of encouraging Guppy - maybe not. It really is too early to tell and the current AI is rather... one-dimensional? Maybe later game zombies get "better senses" but you can acquire the Scaredy Cat hiding perk so nothing finds you while you remain still. (like Solid Snake casually leaning against a wall...) And in general people have a weird perception of how TFP get feedback from the forum. It's not so much that a certain solution will be read and used. Of course it's on the table if it's brilliant but much more likely is that the issue will be discussed and solved... in a way that doesn't conflict with future plans. Or maybe it only gets marked as a "maybe later". In general it's a terrible idea to give players what they ask for. You're better off giving them gameplay elements that solve the perceived issue while being playable and maybe even fun. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillls Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 That's not irony at all. What would be ironic is if they were that smart but they dug weird tunnels anyway because they knew it would piss you off... But then that brings up an interesting point. So if zombies could find your hatches and tunnels because of reasons (smell, zombie sense, sounds) and bashed those in and then just followed your own tunnels down instead of digging new ones then you'd be fine with zombie threats underground? Is it pretty much just the random tunneling you want to avoid? Now that's a good idea! Zombies following you around. TFP's have been calling this bread crumbs and have been trying to add it for a long time. But leading them to players underground bases would be much better than having dozens of them digging holes or worse. Spawning in your base at random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 But if bandits do it and place TNT on all the structural supports of his base and bury him in rubble he'll be back to pissing and moaning To be fair tho I think he will be safe in this respect, Gazz is not that sadistic Bandits tossing TNT is definitely a possibility. Even more fun if you shoot one and make it drop the stick it was throwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I hope in future we get rid of these "I can everything Cops" * Tanks * Healer * Shooter * Explosives It really makes no sense to "uber" Enemys that Combine good offense and Defense. Its rock-paper-scissors not rockpaper versus scissors That removes 100% Tactic and make the fights 100% arcade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doombringer101 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 At the risk of encouraging Guppy - maybe not. It really is too early to tell and the current AI is rather... one-dimensional? Maybe later game zombies get "better senses" but you can acquire the Scaredy Cat hiding perk so nothing finds you while you remain still. (like Solid Snake casually leaning against a wall...) And in general people have a weird perception of how TFP get feedback from the forum. It's not so much that a certain solution will be read and used. Of course it's on the table if it's brilliant but much more likely is that the issue will be discussed and solved... in a way that doesn't conflict with future plans. Or maybe it only gets marked as a "maybe later". In general it's a terrible idea to give players what they ask for. You're better off giving them gameplay elements that solve the perceived issue while being playable and maybe even fun. =) Yeah I don't expect miracles from the AI in a voxel world. Just don't make them all deadly accurate like a certain Sci-Fi voxel game and don't make them walking loot delivery systems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 It's actually rock, paper, scissors, Spock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doombringer101 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Bandits tossing TNT is definitely a possibility. Even more fun if you shoot one and make it drop the stick it was throwing. Nice threat and opportunity all in one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 Also your point seems to be that TFP probably only listen if the consensus is negative (and could impact sales which is weird because the ones making them have already bought game) instead of positive posts for something. Well...I probably should have said that they listened more and considered more our ideas earlier in the dev cycle but now that things are closer to the end their plans and time are locked in and even if someone comes up with an awesome idea, if it is not already part of their plan they’re not going to go for it—at least not until after Gold. My main point is that those who fear that the pimps made bad decisions for their game because they listened to some small but loud faction of the community is bonkers. They do what they want. If the owners enjoyed spam crafting we would still have it regardless of what those who posted against it were saying. They listen but they only trust their own sense of game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 This I think emulates the point a lot make when saying not to drive people to play certain ways. You had the option to try boring ways to play. You found what you liked, regardless of those options existing. More options = more fun for everyone, even if some options are boring to you. I agree. Not sure if my playstyle is common or not, sorta "Bushido meets Woody Allen". It all depends on how much coffee I drank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I have always wanted to be able to purchase a town plot, where you CAN build in peace BUT zombies would have to still be able to break through outer walls and shamble into your town so picture Alexandria I guess, with Walker break ins that you and others have to defend against. And NPCs to help defend with you. I think this is roughly the holy grail. At first, you build your little shack to defend from. Small wandering hordes, no screamers. An NPC shows up. "You... Are on gardening buddy." You build a bit more. And NPC shows up. "You are on defense buddy..." And you grow or do the same thing with a settlement you find. What would be awesome with this is if wandering hordes and screamers scaled with an areas total player blocks and total player NPCs and player level. So big structure and lots of NPCs means lots more zombies. I also would love to have a block I could place underground and assign an NPC to do mining. Like a door way. And the npc just goes up to it and Poof's away and eventually Poof's back up in front of the door and drops mined resources in a box. I wouldn't be underground at all in a setup like this. Only early game to build up my resources for my start. I'd probably also the build one small underground vault for storage. Have my forges actually up top and outside. Omg. Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 It's actually rock, paper, scissors, Spock. no Rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock and in this topic SpocksRocklizardscissors versus paper Give the cops somthing that supports the team Means Tank + Shooter + Smoke or so And make other zombies explode but with really only a few HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Yeah I don't expect miracles from the AI in a voxel world. Just don't make them all deadly accurate like a certain Sci-Fi voxel game and don't make them walking loot delivery systems The loot has been cut down severely because there are now a helluvalot more zombies... if you go looking for them of if they come looking for you. As for the accuracy - expecially bandits - we have a plan. Still a matter of tinkering but they wont be FIRING MAH LAZORS. They'll likely be more dangerous than zombies, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 It's actually rock, paper, scissors, Spock. You forgot the lizard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Bandits... Or zombies with brains as we like to call them. Wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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