Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[beerfly]

Probably another dimension. Cracks in reality may allow things from outside in.

 

Ya, better put a finger on the crack to avoid more leaks Wish it was true though.

 

Madmole will post video soon, where he will show the progress made by far. We all will see how stuff is going, but giving rumors is useless now.

[Atomic Zen]

I have a question for the modders, with A17 I assume your mods will not work at all? Do you have to hand code all the changes back in ..no copy and paste?

If you made buildings, do they have to be redone? Does all the xml recipes need to be all typed in one at a time? I know you haven't seen the code, but is this how it typically is for each alpha? If so, I feel for you. It could be an huge amount of work. I thank all the modders for their dedication of prolonging the fun of 7dtd and I love seeing each modders vision. I'm hoping to one day to do my own. Is it bad that I spent a crap load of cash to build a new pc just to play A17 but pretended I need it for work?

[Xeen]

Video, Video, Video!

[Aldranon]

I may have been the inadvertent instigator.

 

Yesterday, based on MM's twitter, I had said if MM does his play-thru this week, then it looks good for streamers this weekend.

But... now, with two days left for the week, it doesn't sound like a play-thru, does it?

 

*** Maybe he plans a horde night event only, that might scare the crap out of people!

[DividingByZero]

Kraken?

[Matt 1977]

I may have been the inadvertent instigator.

 

Yesterday, based on MM's twitter, I had said if MM does his play-thru this week, then it looks good for streamers this weekend.

But... now, with two days left for the week, it doesn't sound like a play-thru, does it?

 

*** Maybe he plans a horde night event only, that might scare the crap out of people!

 

Of with your head then ...... lol all good

[unholyjoe]

I may have been the inadvertent instigator.

 

Yesterday, based on MM's twitter, I had said if MM does his play-thru this week, then it looks good for streamers this weekend.

But... now, with two days left for the week, it doesn't sound like a play-thru, does it?

 

*** Maybe he plans a horde night event only, that might scare the crap out of people!

 

sir... you are a trouble maker..... just kidding and you know it... but...

 

even with your post, i still do not see how 3 weeks after the streamers is presumed.

 

but i am blind in one ear and deaf in one eye!

[Kamouille]

is that your serious TFP? on the 24th of August it starts for the streamers and we the players and paying crowd can wait until the third weekend in September ?!

 

Probably another dimension. Cracks in reality may allow things from outside in.

 

A18 experimental for streamers confirmed for 24th august 2020 !

 

I may have been the inadvertent instigator.

 

Yesterday, based on MM's twitter, I had said if MM does his play-thru this week, then it looks good for streamers this weekend.

But... now, with two days left for the week, it doesn't sound like a play-thru, does it?

 

*** Maybe he plans a horde night event only, that might scare the crap out of people!

 

It doesn't look like it will be a playthrough, more like a preview of the new textures and shaders they have done with the unity update. And even if he starts a playthrough you can count two weeks before A17e releases

[Dr. O]

Won't happen unless they redo how distant POIs are handled. Those are static now and generated at the same time as the map. Maybe if they do create a blueprint feature, then the distant model would be updated when a blueprint is saved.

 

Personally I hope the current static distant POI system is just the first alpha implementation of a properly implemented system at some later point in time. Currently when you destroy buildings (even small ones) you still see them from far away, and it looks pretty ridiculous when you then get closer and the building suddenly vanishes. Changes to the real structures should be synchronized with the distant models.

 

Dynamic distant POIs (and player-built structures) are the way to go.

[Guppycur]

I have a question for the modders, with A17 I assume your mods will not work at all? Do you have to hand code all the changes back in ..no copy and paste?

If you made buildings, do they have to be redone? Does all the xml recipes need to be all typed in one at a time? I know you haven't seen the code, but is this how it typically is for each alpha? If so, I feel for you. It could be an huge amount of work. I thank all the modders for their dedication of prolonging the fun of 7dtd and I love seeing each modders vision. I'm hoping to one day to do my own. Is it bad that I spent a crap load of cash to build a new pc just to play A17 but pretended I need it for work?

 

Oddly, I suspect recipes.xml is the ONLY xml that won't need to be completely redone. =)

[Kamouille]

Personally I hope the current static distant POI system is just the first alpha implementation of a properly implemented system at some later point in time. Currently when you destroy buildings (even small ones) you still see them from far away, and it looks pretty ridiculous when you then get closer and the building suddenly vanishes. Changes to the real structures should be synchronized with the distant models.

 

Dynamic distant POIs (and player-built structures) are the way to go.

 

That looks complicated performance wise. You would have to update the distant model every time a block is placed, destroyed or painted. Even if it is every ten blocks that's a lot of updating. Plus you would have to keep a distant model for each building in the world. Whereas now there is only one model per kind of POI. Might as well not use distant model at all... But imagine the lag if the game had to completely load every building in our line of sight.

[HeavensDoor405]

Am I the only one?

 

That looks complicated performance wise. You would have to update the distant model every time a block is placed, destroyed or painted. Even if it is every ten blocks that's a lot of updating. Plus you would have to keep a distant model for each building in the world. Whereas now there is only one model per kind of POI. Might as well not use distant model at all... But imagine the lag if the game had to completely load every building in our line of sight.

 

Am I the only one that builds an urban zone, and destroys everything around me? I have one save where I'm about to take down the pharmaceutical tower because I built in an army barracks that spawned on the opposite corner. They render the distant POI at some point during the generation of the world, so there has to be a way to regenerate those things. Maybe make it update the models on exit, or on login, so you may have to deal with it for the current session, but the next time you log out, or in, it updates. I've done things like rebuild all the bridges in the south of navezgane, and renovate Departure one building at a time.

[meganoth]

Won't happen unless they redo how distant POIs are handled. Those are static now and generated at the same time as the map. Maybe if they do create a blueprint feature, then the distant model would be updated when a blueprint is saved.

 

Does the "generated" refer to creating a distant view picture of the poi or to stiching together a town picture from static poi pictures?

 

In the former case I would call it semi-static, as the pictures are not included in the binary you install from steam but still generated in the client at runtime. And that would mean the neccessary code is already largely done, they just would need to create a low-priority thread to re-generate those views in the background. It doesn't depend on the blueprint feature.

 

I think its ok when the bridges fall down sometimes It is an old, unnoticed bridge without being taken care of, so it should sometimes fall under players weight.

 

I would even call this a feature. Seeing civilization crumble will get you into the right post-apocalyptic mood.

[TylerDB]

Does the "generated" refer to creating a distant view picture of the poi or to stiching together a town picture from static poi pictures?

 

In the former case I would call it semi-static, as the pictures are not included in the binary you install from steam but still generated in the client at runtime. And that would mean the neccessary code is already largely done, they just would need to create a low-priority thread to re-generate those views in the background. It doesn't depend on the blueprint feature.

 

Yeah they create static images and thats what we see, thats why if a building is partially crumbled or added to the image is the same.

[meganoth]

That looks complicated performance wise. You would have to update the distant model every time a block is placed, destroyed or painted. Even if it is every ten blocks that's a lot of updating. Plus you would have to keep a distant model for each building in the world. Whereas now there is only one model per kind of POI. Might as well not use distant model at all... But imagine the lag if the game had to completely load every building in our line of sight.

 

Doing it every time a block is placed would be 100% correct and 100% dumb. Using a background job reading from a task list makes it unnoticable and in a single player game still 99% correct (since the model would usually be regenerated before you get to a distance where you could notice it). There should also be a threshold of block changes, regenerating doesn't happen below that threshold. So a door you break in doesn't regenerate the distant view but destroying the building does.

 

Unchanged pois could still share the same distant model, only a poi that is regenerated would need a new poi-id in the map.

[The Gronk]

That looks complicated performance wise. You would have to update the distant model every time a block is placed, destroyed or painted. Even if it is every ten blocks that's a lot of updating. Plus you would have to keep a distant model for each building in the world. Whereas now there is only one model per kind of POI. Might as well not use distant model at all... But imagine the lag if the game had to completely load every building in our line of sight.

 

Technically quite difficult but if done correctly it shouldn't be too hard on system resources. The update can wait a few frames and with prodigious use of the c# job system the affect on the frame-rate should be negligable.

[Matt 1977]

Technically quite difficult but if done correctly it shouldn't be too hard on system resources. The update can wait a few frames and with prodigious use of the c# job system the affect on the frame-rate should be negligable.

 

Is it needed , really?

 

More other pressing stuff to worry about, horde night fps for example. ( not having a go at you )

[meganoth]

Is it needed , really?

 

You could put that question under any feature request posted here and the answer of that person would always be "yes". And since you ask, your own answer would be "meh, no".

 

Yeah they create static images and thats what we see, thats why if a building is partially crumbled or added to the image is the same.

 

My question was "Do they create distant images of single pois, towns or chuncks?" That question can't be fully answered with "yes"

[The Gronk]

Is it needed , really?

 

More other pressing stuff to worry about, horde night fps for example. ( not having a go at you )

 

You're right about higher priorites but I know TFP want it... and so do I :-)

[Matt 1977]

You're right about higher priorites but I know TFP want it... and so do I :-)

 

Yea i know

 

Problem is most people i talk to ( bugger all about 10 , 15 lol ) saying " great game but runs like a lame duck at times "

 

I have a mid to top end pc ( no spud at $4k lol, thats Australian ) and it stutters etc at times.

 

My 1st console was a Atari so all these games are jaw dropping in comparison lol

[Dr. O]

That looks complicated performance wise.

 

It's a question of proper and smart implementation, i.e. when and how to update static models, what efficient data structures to use, or how to render models dynamically without storing any static models etc.

 

You would have to update the distant model every time a block is placed, destroyed or painted.

 

Not necessarily. The dynamic model is needed only when actually seen by someone, so updating a model block by block immediately would not be the smartest way of doing it. When and how to update these models is part of the challenge. But the worst solution does not prove that it can't be done better.

 

Plus you would have to keep a distant model for each building in the world. Whereas now there is only one model per kind of POI.

 

Again depends on the implementation. You could for instance also only store the difference to the original static reference POI, and apply it when needed (seen by someone). And it's not like these models use a lot of space.

 

But imagine the lag if the game had to completely load every building in our line of sight.

 

The point of these distant models is exactly not load every building in your line of sight, whether static or dynamic. You just render a small model instead of the entire structure. How to construct these dynamic models would be the main challenge, whether iteratively, on demand, or what not. But once you have them they provide the same benefits as static models regarding rendering.

[Maymay Lord]

This may have been answered at some point but with this large lighting overhaul, will the NVGs functionality be affected at all?

[NBornkilla]

Lol, I would be more surprised if he actually did get it than if he didn't

 

time will tell

[wolffblood]

time will tell

 

I will just add him on twitch and see if i get a notification about it tomorrow, haha

[The Gronk]

is not a video saying when it will be release.

 

Спасибо!

 

(I really hope that says something similar to "thank you")