Version 1.0 (Alpha 22) Dev Diary

[User]

So, the athletic set says it's a light armor. There aren't any light armor perks/skills anymore, though? Seems a bit off to me that its the only armor category without any perks.

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

While I agree that MP groups very probably will advance slower on the tier progression now, your example is simply broken because you don't take into account that MP players can do quests much faster than a single player. Because they are faster at going through a POI and because they can minimize travel time between quests, and they can share in the rest of the work load they have more time to quest as well.

 

My point wasn't that you would do the same number of quests per day.  I replied to the statement that showing the max number of quests per day was min/max, so I showed an example that stuck to their statement that people might not want to quest more than 1 or 2 per day.  In the end, you still have a limited time for questing.  There's no way to complete 80 quests in 2 days if everyone is questing together.  But you can complete 10 quests in 2 days with single player.  Again, as I said before, this is the extreme side of things - one player versus 8 players.  If the number of players is between these, the impact is less.  But there shouldn't be any impact.  It isn't difficult to make it so you can't get more than a certain number of tier points per day, regardless of the number of players.  That lets you all get points at the same rate, regardless of the number of players.  If people quest less than that number of points, they'll still advance more slowly, but that's something they can choose to do.  The limit just sets a cap without preventing shared quests from not sharing tier points and so causing you to need to quest far more in a group than individually.  Such a cap would keep progression even no matter how many players you have and I think would be far less frustrating for groups.  Yes, it means you wouldn't be able to "cheat" the system and reload the game to get more quests in order to go up in tiers faster than the intended cap and people doing that would probably not be happy about it, but that's a loophole and I don't see a problem with cutting that off.  It's certainly better than doing 80 quests per tier for 8 players questing together, regardless how fast you feel they can complete those quests.

[Doomofman]

1 hour ago, User said:

So, the athletic set says it's a light armor. There aren't any light armor perks/skills anymore, though? Seems a bit off to me that its the only armor category without any perks.

 

There's no perks for light armor as it doesn't have an mobility or stamina penalties for a perk to reduce. The only thing you're missing without a perk is the slower degradation

[Mister Forgash]

33 minutes ago, Riamus said:

... It's certainly better than doing 80 quests per tier for 8 players questing together. ...

10 quests per player per tier is a lot, but if you have a team size of 8, do you really all go to the same quests? I've never ran with a group larger than 3 and even that was mowing through PoIs Perhaps questing as 2 groups of 4 would be more reasonable?

 

That said, perhaps a daily diminishing returns system would work better- First 2 turn-ins of the day you get full credit towards progression, The next 3 turn ins are worth half, and every turn in thereafter is worth quarter credit. So you would get something like.
2 quests in a day- 2 points towards tier completion,

4 quests in a day- 3 points towards tier completion

7 quests in a day- 4 points towards tier completion.

 -- This needs more tuning and favors large teams too heavily .. I don't think it's good for balance if large teams can rush their way to the upper tiers within the first week. I don't think the current answer is the best solution.. I don't think the best solution has been figured, yet.

Edited Thursday at 03:23 PM by Mister Forgash (see edit history)

[Riamus]

6 minutes ago, Mister Forgash said:

10 quests per player per tier is a lot, but if you have a team size of 8, do you really all go to the same quests? I've never ran with a group larger than 3 and even that was mowing through PoIs Perhaps questing as 2 groups of 4 would be more reasonable?

 

That said, perhaps a daily diminishing returns system would work better- First 2 turn-ins of the day you get full credit towards progression, The next 3 turn ins are worth half, and every turn in thereafter is worth quarter credit. So you would get something like.
2 quests in a day- 2 points towards tier completion,

4 quests in a day- 3 points towards tier completion

7 quests in a day- 4 points towards tier completion.

 -- This needs more tuning and favors large teams too heavily .. I don't think it's good for balance if large teams can rush their way to the upper tiers within the first week. I don't think the current answer is the best solution.. I don't think the best solution has been figured, yet.

Yes, you can split into smaller groups and have fewer to do. I've commented on that a few times.  My examples are the extreme cases (some people do play larger parties and quest together).  Tier progression should be balanced, regardless how many players are in a party or group.  Before, multiplayer progressed way too quickly.  Now, they progress too slowly.  A cap for points earned per day based on tier would balance it.  Your suggestion also helps but doesn't entirely balance it.  It is certainly better than no points for a shared quest, though.

[meganoth]

45 minutes ago, Riamus said:

There's no way to complete 80 quests in 2 days if everyone is questing together.  But you can complete 10 quests in 2 days with single player. 

 

There is no way **I** can do 10 quests in the first two days in single player at an appropriate difficulty setting (which is 3 for me). I don't know how others can do it unless they set difficulty too low.

 

I started 1.0 on monday. First day I got 1 quest done, second day I got 2 quests done or would have if I didn't got killed by a dog. No way is 5 quests per day in the first few days the norm for single player. And I am sure TFP as well isn't interested in some hypothetical numbers what could be done, but actual experiences of normal players.

 

Now show me most players do 5 quests on the first day and I concede the point.

 

Edited Thursday at 03:38 PM by meganoth (see edit history)

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

There is no way **I** can do 10 quests in the first two days in single player at an appropriate difficulty setting (which is 3 for me). I don't know how others can do it unless they set difficulty too low.

 

I started 1.0 on monday. First day I got 1 quest done, second day I got 2 quests done or would have if I didn't got killed by a dog. No way is 5 quests per day in the first few days the norm for single player. And I am sure TFP as well isn't interested in some hypothetical numbers what could be done, but actual experiences of normal players.

 

Now show me most players do 5 quests on the first day and I concede the point.

 

And as I explained in the other post, the comparison works even with fewer quests.  If you average 2 per day, you complete tier 1 in about 5 days in single player.  Let's say that at 8 players, you can complete 8 per day.  That is still 10 days (twice as long) to finish tier 1 for everyone if all are questing together.  And I'm not sure how many groups can complete 8 per day on 60 minute days if they quest together.  Not to mention, as you said, there are other things you need to do besides quest.

 

As far are quests go, though.... With a decent weapon (I use a spear), I can complete 5 if I really try.  With spear and the new power attacks, I can usually knock down an enemy on day 1 with the first headshot hit, and at most, 2.  Then 2-3 more power attacks on the ground and they are dead.  Once I find the book to recharge stamina on kill, I can power through a POI quickly.  I might need to back away and regroup when fighting many enemies at once, but most tier 1 POI have only 1-3 zombies at a time.  I did find one with 5 at once and had to back off after killing two, but that is rare.  When I have tried the same with some other weapons, that isn't always possible, mainly due to stamina usage and attack speed.  So it varies depending on how you play, but it's possible.  But as I explained in a few posts, my example at max number of quests was to give a comparison based on what TFP seems to want for maximum progression.  If I start randomly picking number of quests based on someone's play style or ability, it just is more muddy when trying to see the difference because the values can change a lot depending on what play style you pick.  But it doesn't change how things are unbalanced.  It also doesn't take away the bad taste that not getting any progression from helping friends puts in my mouth and the mouths of others who are also upset about the change.  For a game that promotes co-op play, changing something so that you are better off not playing as a group just doesn't make sense.  Especially when there are ways to balance this for all numbers of players.

 

And yes, you get benefits still from playing as a group.  Speed, though not enough to compensate for this change; survivability, though that isn't always a big deal depending on how you play; more rewards, though you need more for more people, so not really a bonus.

Edited Thursday at 05:39 PM by Riamus (see edit history)

[Alphabeta110]

@ смертельный @ Лаз Ман @ меганот @ СайленГром @Роланд Hi! A pre-order of the game has already appeared on Playstation. When should I expect to be released on Xbox? And what decision did the developers come to in the end? Will there be keyboard and mouse support in the console version or not?

[Turtul420]

Is it possible to turn off that icon on the toolbelt marking which item you can quick switch to? Could there be an option in settings or maybe can I edit it in xml? It just looks ugly and distracting, always makes me look at the item its on.

 

Also nights are just straight up day time with running zombies, nightvision or mining helmets are useless. The whole thing about nights in zombie games or movies is that you don't really know whats around you and that makes your imagination going. Right now you can just see all these 3 zombies that spawned. I get that some people might like it easy and not scary, is it possible to have it as a setting? Either in world settings or regular settings, simmilar to minecraft's moody or bright options. Personally I'd like the new Rust approach, yes Rust used to be stupid dark, literally black but after some recent update its still really dark but you can see a few meters in front of you. Which is a great balance imo

[anon80]

I don't mind the changes but only 4 slot compared to the previous alpha build kinda.. a bit dumb down tbh. Maybe 5 or 6 would make sense, having chest and legging as separate slot option so you can customize more. (can we get a skirt back? any clothing from previous alpha shouldn't go to waste in my opinion)

 

I think the partial bonus effect from set piece were great, you don't have to go full set, you can mix match based on your build you wanna go so thank you for the partial bonus effect. Oh and the price for the armor pieces in trader inventory, is it a placeholder for now? starting with 3000 dukes kinda a bit hefty for rarity 1, for every class of armor. I think light armor should be below 1000/ 1500 dukes if you want to encourage people to get full set of armor before day 7. or for rarity 3 above I don't mind 3000 dukes, hopefully its a placeholder for now.

Edited Thursday at 06:26 PM by anon80 (see edit history)

[SylenThunder]

1 hour ago, Alphabeta110 said:

@ смертельный @ Лаз Ман @ меганот @ СайленГром @Роланд Hi! A pre-order of the game has already appeared on Playstation. When should I expect to be released on Xbox? And what decision did the developers come to in the end? Will there be keyboard and mouse support in the console version or not?

 

As soon as Microsoft approves everything. Unfortunately, we really don't have much say in that matter. I personally was hoping it would have appeared already.

[Roland]

6 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

The fact that can be fixed with just XML files is kind of sad in my opinion

I wish family could be changed with xml edits. Thanksgiving qol alone would be amazing….

[Jay_ombie]

Please tell me the animation glitch isn't still present that when you smack a lying down zombie it stands up instantly to go down again ?????????????

 

I swear I saw this horrid animation quirk earlier just (and this was a thing a year ago)..

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Riamus said:

And as I explained in the other post, the comparison works even with fewer quests.  If you average 2 per day, you complete tier 1 in about 5 days in single player.  Let's say that at 8 players, you can complete 8 per day.  That is still 10 days (twice as long) to finish tier 1 for everyone if all are questing together.  And I'm not sure how many groups can complete 8 per day on 60 minute days if they quest together.  Not to mention, as you said, there are other things you need to do besides quest.

 

And that is why I said I agree with you generally, just that your comparison is wrong. Even though the maximum level is 300 I don't assume TFP to think the normal player will reach that level. And similarily I don't expect the quest number of 5 to have any special meaning besides that it was always 5 when they started using that quest UI and it looked like a good high number to put an upper limit at. 

 

The interesting question is how players will react to this rule and whether it destroys co-op, is too harsh a drawback for a group or whether disadvantages and advantages of group play somehow level out in many games. I don't know yet. That is why I am playing it now without a preconceived opinion and see what happens. One interesting value will simply be: How far will I be in single player on day 20, and how far will our group be. NOT with trader rep, but generally with quality of guns and equipment, money and level.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 10:06 PM by meganoth (see edit history)

[Arez]

Ok, I was hesitating to bring this up because I like it.

But is the speed increase when strafe-walking (holding forward (or backwards) + left or right at the same time) a bug or a feature?

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

And that is why I said I agree with you generally, just that your comparison is wrong. Even though the maximum level is 300 I don't assume TFP to think the normal player will reach that level. And similarily I don't expect the quest number of 5 to have any special meaning besides that it was always 5 when they started using that quest UI and it looked like a good high number to put an upper limit at. 

 

The interesting question is how players will react to this rule and whether it destroys co-op, is too harsh a drawback for a group or whether disadvantages and advantages of group play somehow level out in many games. I don't know yet. That is why I am playing it now without a preconceived opinion and see what happens. One interesting value will simply be: How far will I be in single player on day 20, and how far will our group be. NOT with trader rep, but generally with quality of guns and equipment, money and level.

I admit that I am speculating on how it works for larger groups, as I mentioned on another post.  I play mostly 2 player with some solo.  Only occasionally do I play with a larger group.  From my experience so far, and this is still early game, two player questing together is feeling like a slog compared to my solo game.  We will see how things progress in both games by late game.  And like I said somewhere else, I like questing.  I never had a problem with starting quest tiers over for each trader.  So with my like of questing in mind, me saying that this is too much should show how much I don't appreciate the change.  The changes to quest rewards don't bother me at all, even if they do seem low sometimes (1 food item doesn't feel right, but I'm still okay with that).  Combining trader tier progression doesn't bother me.  And changing tier progression from 7 to 10 doesn't bother me.  But this does.  I'm trying to ignore it by not paying attention to tier progression while questing, but even if I can ignore it, that doesn't mean it is a good design decision.

 

In the end, it doesn't matter for me.  We will mod it out after this initial vanilla playthrough no matter what they do with it.  So I'm not upset about it.  I just think it was a bad design choice when it is not difficult to actually balance the rate of trader tier progression for all numbers of players.  I explained how to do that in another post.  And I think it is important for the devs who read about it thoughts on this to see the ways that this isn't a great idea.  Maybe they will adjust things in some way.  We'll see.

[DocRussel]

1 hour ago, Arez said:

Ok, I was hesitating to bring this up because I like it.

But is the speed increase when strafe-walking (holding forward (or backwards) + left or right at the same time) a bug or a feature?

I noticed that and was playing around with it yesterday.  From my observations, you are not actually moving towards something faster than just walking forward but it certainly looks like you are.

[Arez]

1 hour ago, DocRussel said:

I noticed that and was playing around with it yesterday.  From my observations, you are not actually moving towards something faster than just walking forward but it certainly looks like you are.

Someone on reddit tested it and made a video. You move 25% faster while strafe-walking.

 

It's so obvious to me especially when I'm not intending to do it (while walking forward) and I press left or right and it feels like I'm gliding.

[Jost Amman]

So... they removed honey from tree stumps. 

[danielspoa]

hi. Quick feedback on things that bugged me, despite enjoying the new version.
- the reward for completing tier 1 quest line on a trader, it gives a bicycle (great) and some subpar options. It feels super bad when you invest towards vehicle crafting, and because I think the bicycle there is a massive QoL for players following other paths, I suggest improving the competing rewards so the to-be-mechanic gets something equally impactful to his gameplay, prolly something that other players would invest early and he didn't.

- the armor sets are amazingly beautiful, but the specific usage bonuses promote some gameplay that feels bad. Basically changing set for every task gets boring fast, and thats ignoring mid-tasks like a set to drive

- I would give so much for a multi-choice menu on pc when filtering server region

 

thank you

[MechanicalLens]

So I just finished the day 14 blood moon horde, trickling zombies and all, by around 1:30 in the morning. Apparently the hordes don't last until morning early on, the "trickle horde" has a set number that will spawn. Very interesting!

12 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

There is no way **I** can do 10 quests in the first two days in single player at an appropriate difficulty setting (which is 3 for me). I don't know how others can do it unless they set difficulty too low.

 

I started 1.0 on monday. First day I got 1 quest done, second day I got 2 quests done or would have if I didn't got killed by a dog. No way is 5 quests per day in the first few days the norm for single player. And I am sure TFP as well isn't interested in some hypothetical numbers what could be done, but actual experiences of normal players.

 

Now show me most players do 5 quests on the first day and I concede the point.

 

 

How some seasoned veterans I've seen accomplish this is by prioritizing Fetch jobs (just grabbing the supplies and making a run for it) or just by rushing them in general with the task of getting back to the trader as soon as possible. It certainly can be done. Rekt had many close Fetch jobs early game that I took advantage of, so I was able to get the bicycle by the evening of the third day.

With that being said, I highly suspect the average player would be able to complete 1, maybe 2 jobs in a day.

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

So... they removed honey from tree stumps. 

 

In a patch? If not, then I have plenty of honey from stumps.

[bdubyah]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

So... they removed honey from tree stumps. 

Xml says otherwise:

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

So... they removed honey from tree stumps. 

 

No, it's just still a stupidly low, low, LOW chance.

[Arez]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

So... they removed honey from tree stumps. 

No. I feel like I've been getting honey from stumps at the same rate as A21.

[Kalex]

6 minutes ago, Arez said:

No. I feel like I've been getting honey from stumps at the same rate as A21.

Seems a lot less to me. I've chopped 30+ stumps and still haven't gotten any honey. That challenge is going to take forever to complete.