Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Burrfly]

6 hours ago, Selevan said:

Point is, i really liked the game, back in a15-16, and since the game was being developed that way since few updates, i thought this game had a huge potential, and that im excited.

 

Sadly, a17 was a complete failure, thats basically when the devs decided to completly change the game, and the 18-20 only continued that way. It keeps changing, but on the same way, it keeps getting simpler and less survivalish.

 

So yeah, im writing that, because im kinda frustrated at how the game completly wasted its enourmous potential

 

 

 

Considering the mess theyre doing with 7d2d, i wouldnt stay excited for any of their new game.

His/her way of wording might be a bit "mean", but I kinda agree with him/her. I don't think a17 was a complete failure, there were a lot of cool things added, but some of the latest alpha's just keep on removing things??? And they keep on simplifying this game which indeed, makes it less survivalish... Alpha 16 felt more a survival game than alpha 20 did for me...

 

That's literally what I was talking about with the simplification of the upgrade path. Come on Fun Pimps, don't remove or simplify already cool existing things! 😕 I hope TFP reads this

[Diragor]

1 hour ago, Burrfly said:

His/her way of wording might be a bit "mean", but I kinda agree with him/her. I don't think a17 was a complete failure, there were a lot of cool things added, but some of the latest alpha's just keep on removing things??? And they keep on simplifying this game which indeed, makes it less survivalish... Alpha 16 felt more a survival game than alpha 20 did for me...

Yeah it's true. it's barely a survival game anymore. All we do is grinding materials and build kill corridors. I miss the old, random AI that attacked everywhere cause it felt more zombie like.

I wish the zombies would act this way again, while the bandits should get this focused AI.

The thing I miss the most are the gun parts with different qualities. It made exploring the most rewarding experience.

Hopefully the bandits aren't just zombies with guns/meele weapons, there will be more traps, more horror feeling, better sounds and more stuff to do besides farming magazines, building kill corridors and questing

[saltychipmunk]

On 7/2/2022 at 3:21 AM, thecapotek said:

The game is good and all, I keep playing it occasionally. What actually bothers me is that there's still no actual point to it.
There's no consolidated storyline or quest system that leads up to something.
I mean, I gather resources, weapons, food and all that, in order to achieve what, exactly?
I'm not really up to speed with game updates and betas but there doesn't seem to be any actual work towards this direction. Not to mention the fact the game hasn't left Alpha stage despite being worked on for years and years. I'm not even trying to be hostile or anything, I enjoy the game as I said, I just think that sooner or later a game has to have an actual goal for the player to achieve.

 

Honestly what the game needs is less of a story and more of an over all reason to move through the more difficult biomes. Right now the trader, any trader, is ludicrously over powered, But even besides that, there is not enough biome specific things out there . no biome specific weapons, very few biome specific resources,  trader specific inventories with themes. enemies...  most stuff is tied to the game stage. but because the game stage largely keeps pace with the player.. the player rarely needs to move out of their comfort zone.

 

So the other biomes feel like a bump in challenge without any novel rewards.. just better loot.. that you were going to get anyway by grinding levels.

 

They need to solve this issue before thinking too hard about story imo

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

Wait, let me think.

 

 

Learn by doing - perfect system for such games, and dont start with the stone axes. It could easily be fixed in many ways. Like crafting the same stuff could be less and less profitable, where crafting new ones would be more. Perhaps combine it with perks/books system, like a16. Or even stick with perks, but bring back lbd for action skills, such as shooting, melee, athletics, looting, etc.

learn by doing was great for action based skills, and terrible for crafting, that was its main flaw. And honestly I wish they kept lbd for action based perks.

 

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

 

Gun parts where each part corresponds different gun statistics. That one got me in love with exploring, finding that better barrell to bump up my magnum a little and try to max it out was always exciting. 

 

I have to admit without rare heavily rng based things like gun parts.. looting really doesn't have much variety in it  But this technically could be something they could address by simply adding more stuff. more attachments, find only weapons .. etc

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

Wellness, which made creating better food actually worthful. What was wrong with it?

Yeah I dont get why they got rid of this either.  Wellness was really the only thing justifying making fancy food.  That being said Wellness as a concept was good, its execution was not.  Honestly I think DF did a good job fleshing it out  and serves as a good example for what might have been

 

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

 

Food smell. That one, together with gore blocks were controversial, but for the survival with horror elements, it was perfect, and that was the direction i expected the game to go. Not the casual, simplified fps.

This honestly I kinda understand.  The gore blocks  were a resource load and would have made even simple blood moons almost unplayable.  That being said food smell was a novel concept until you realize that most of the time  you would either never experience it or randomly pick up something and forget it was there until it bit you in the ass. 

If hunting was a more fleshed out process I would miss food smell more.

 

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

 

 

Burnt forest was kinda bland, due to tfp ignoring it rather than making it more interesing, but it was still fitting well with the atmosphere, fog, and burnt environment. 

Too bad instead of making it cooler, they just removed it, leaving us with 4 biomes.

Isnt this one coming back as a sort of sub biome in the wasteland? That being said I do wish the game had more biomes then just 4 .. or that they actually did more with said biomes. 

 

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

1-600 quality, where stuff like clothes, engine, tires, basket, handles (remember when making a vehicle wasnt just "do 10 quests or find two parts"? When you could keep upgrading your minibike, with the 7 different parts?)

the quality 1 - 600 system was a bit too much and while i think the 1 -6 is too simple all the 1 600 system was .. was the 1 -6 with 2 extra decimals . something you could easily strike a better balance with by going with a 1 - 60 system.

 

 

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

 

Temperature system. What we have now, is just a leftover from what we had in earlier alphas. Nowadays it doesnt matter at all if youre naked in snow biome, if its searing hot or its raining. Everything it does are the small debuffs you wouldnt even notice if not the big indicators like red flashing vinette, images of red sun or blue snowflake together with the dangerously sounding "youre freezing! Find a shelter fast!". 

No, youre not. Youre just having a tiny debuff, and these notifications are from times where you could die to the weather. God, they didnt even bother to change them lol.

No sandbox survival game i know has done weather  or temperature well at all. With the possible exception of survival games where things like the seasons or  surviving the weather was the core concept like  dst or the long dark.  But of those two I would only consider dst to be a sandbox

 

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

Log spikes. Not a big deal, but why not let us have more diversity in making the defences? I really loves to put them on my base walls.

I miss these too I always felt they were the companion to the spike traps.. where the spike traps were fragile but damaging the logs were  durable but  largely ineffective on their own.

 

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

Wall tiers (which applied to log spikes by the way). Why, please tell me why can not i have something between the very weak wood and strong cobblestone? What was the point of removing half of the levels, leaving just lousy 3 updates?

I disagree here , It felt tiresome to have like 3 upgrades dedicated to what was basically a single tier of defense.  I think it is cleaner to have a tier of defense to match your tiers of offense. 

Now what I think the real issue is that we simply do not have enough tiers of progression.  going from stone /pipe /wood  -> iron/ t1/cobble  - steel /t2 /concrete  -> power tool/t3 /steel  for the entire  playthrough  when you  can leisurely work through each tier in 7 days or less means we really only have tech related content for  28 days .. after  which.. nothing. That is a pretty serious issue to have.  And again this goes back to a point I made earlier and the lack of reason to go to other biomes for progression.  There really should be biome exclusive  tech gating ore , who cares if it is gamey this is game. 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

 

Continuing, wet concrete. Or even blunderbuss. It may be not much, but it was one of these little unique things that made the game cool. And since they barely add anything new, the game is getting dangerously empty.

The blunderbuss IS the pipe shotgun.

 

12 hours ago, Selevan said:

*the other stuff*

 

 

I have to admit if it weren't for mods like darkness falls that actually adds the content the game is sorely missing I would have probably moved on by now.  Too many juicy looking survival games on the horizon.. some of which might even do the whole horde survival thing decently well enough ( I am shocked how so few survival games have even tried to do this)

Edited July 5, 2022 by saltychipmunk (see edit history)

[Guppycur]

8 hours ago, Kalex said:

I want to see those fireworks in game

It is a mod.

[meganoth]

7 hours ago, Diragor said:

Yeah it's true. it's barely a survival game anymore. All we do is grinding materials

 

Uhh, isn't that the core activity in a survival game?

 

 

7 hours ago, Diragor said:

 

and build kill corridors. I miss the old, random AI that attacked everywhere cause it felt more zombie like.

I wish the zombies would act this way again, while the bandits should get this focused AI.

The thing I miss the most are the gun parts with different qualities. It made exploring the most rewarding experience.

Hopefully the bandits aren't just zombies with guns/meele weapons, there will be more traps, more horror feeling, better sounds and more stuff to do besides farming magazines, building kill corridors and questing

 

[Matt115]

16 hours ago, Selevan said:

 

 

Gun parts where each part corresponds different gun statistics. That one got me in love with exploring, finding that better barrell to bump up my magnum a little and try to max it out was always exciting. 

 

Wellness, which made creating better food actually worthful. What was wrong with it?

 

Food smell. That one, together with gore blocks were controversial, but for the survival with horror elements, it was perfect, and that was the direction i expected the game to go. Not the casual, simplified fps.

 

 

Burnt forest was kinda bland, due to tfp ignoring it rather than making it more interesing, but it was still fitting well with the atmosphere, fog, and burnt environment. 

Too bad instead of making it cooler, they just removed it, leaving us with 4 biomes.

 

1-600 quality, where stuff like clothes, engine, tires, basket, handles (remember when making a vehicle wasnt just "do 10 quests or find two parts"? When you could keep upgrading your minibike, with the 7 different parts?)

 

 

Wall tiers (which applied to log spikes by the way). Why, please tell me why can not i have something between the very weak wood and strong cobblestone? What was the point of removing half of the levels, leaving just lousy 3 updates?

 

Continuing, wet concrete. Or even blunderbuss. It may be not much, but it was one of these little unique things that made the game cool. And since they barely add anything new, the game is getting dangerously empty.

 

Do you want me to keep going? Or should i move to other parts of the game? Like how bases are obsolete nowadays due to the quests being the only important thing, and the zombies that will always dig you out of your underground base, (hello supersense, trying to hide somewhere in some lost and abandoned basement to wait until its day time? Well, no luck. They will always find you, and always take the easiest way. Did you perhaps block the only entrance with some strong material? Well, out of luck again, because they will just dig around your barricades, and always find the weakest spot.) while on the other hand theyre still easy to outsmart? 

 

Or perhaps should i talk about the upcoming yet another overhaul of core game systems? Do you really think that the game on its ninth year of development should be at the stage of figuring out how they want the most fundamental stuff to work?

 

Oh, maybe about the lack of actual content, many features working still the same as they did in 2015, some missing since always? The only meaningful things that came since 2017 were quests (which are cool, but drove players away from the bases), and gun attachments.

 

Oh wait, we had new models and textures for stuff like inv icons and zombies. Something noone ever asked, yet such remakes always take at least 1/3 1/2 of an entire update (which take... 12-18 months) 

 

Well no wonder there is no new stuff, since the updates consists of texture remakes, core systems overhauls, and features removals.

 

In the end, maybe its well optimized without bugs? Oh wait.

 

I probably forgot tons of what i wanted to share, but.. Anything else youd like to discuss? Or youre busy watching 47th dev dairy videos about the bandits (promised in 2014), which from what im reading, will be just zombies with guns. Spawning out of nowhere, wandering aimlessly. But at least we will have few more models for constant retexturing in the future updates.

 

Edit: since when i play i only use rh or df mods, i didnt notice that they even removed the zombies population slider, lol. Whats coming in a21? Difficulty level flattened to normal and hard? Bike being removed? Wouldnt be surpised.

Well i miss this old bioms ,quality , food smell too, it was soo good.

New stuff  - new perk system , water overhaul changes in armors

15 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Sorry to hear you are unhappy with the game's direction since the Alpha you most enjoyed.  All of what you mentioned has been discussed and rehashed multiple times here on the forums.

 

Hopefully you can still find some enjoyment in the game when it's finally done.  If not, I hope modding can bring back some of that spark for you.  And if that doesn't work, I genuinely hope you find another game you can be positive and excited about.  Life is too short to be dwelling on what could have been.

 

 

Or too long. i think next 7dtd 2 will be maybe after 10 years after released of 7dtd1,  so this soo long

13 hours ago, Roland said:

Change is part of development. The game won’t get pure add-ons until it’s done. While in development you should expect change and replacement features as devs experiment and iterate on their design. 
 

Once the game is declared finished and complete, you won’t see any more overhauls, cuts, and reimplementations. But until then, anything is fair game to be changed. 

Well even games after complete get big overhauls - cod  WW2 ,  mount and blade with fire and swrod

21 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Uhh, isn't that the core activity in a survival game?

 

 

 

Hm this depends - you can in theory make survival game where stealth will be core activity

[BenZ0]

On 7/4/2022 at 6:22 PM, Burrfly said:

Hi everyone I've read some other forums and most people agree:

 

Bring back rebar frames and (re)add more block material (upgrades). Please. Thank you for reading. 

Agree I miss the rebar frames, I dont see any reason why they got removed, not like they caused any problems.

[Walder]

15 hours ago, Roland said:

Change is part of development. The game won’t get pure add-ons until it’s done. While in development you should expect change and replacement features as devs experiment and iterate on their design. 
 

Once the game is declared finished and complete, you won’t see any more overhauls, cuts, and reimplementations. But until then, anything is fair game to be changed. 

This just goes to show that the devs have absolutely no definitive vision for the game, they keep changing/experimenting, as they have done for almost 1 decade... the next update will make it 10 (!) years. Is there any other game that wants to go for 2 decades before it is released? I can imagine some of the original team will get retired before this happens, by the way this is looking.

 

5 hours ago, saltychipmunk said:

 

 

I have to admit if it weren't for mods like darkness falls that actually adds the content the game is sorely missing I would have probably moved on by now.  Too many juicy looking survival games on the horizon.. some of which might even do the whole horde survival thing decently well enough ( I am shocked how so few survival games have even tried to do this)

 

It's kinda mindboggling that modders can do a better job to keep players entertained than the actually developers of the game.

 

 

Personally i haven't played in some time...has it has happened for the last 2/3 years, i install the one big update, play a week/2 weeks and get bored and just move on again and just wait for the next year. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Walder (see edit history)

[Fanatical_Meat]

17 hours ago, Selevan said:

Point is, i really liked the game, back in a15-16, and since the game was being developed that way since few updates, i thought this game had a huge potential, and that im excited.

 

Sadly, a17 was a complete failure, thats basically when the devs decided to completly change the game, and the 18-20 only continued that way. It keeps changing, but on the same way, it keeps getting simpler and less survivalish.

 

So yeah, im writing that, because im kinda frustrated at how the game completly wasted its enourmous potential

 

 

 

Considering the mess theyre doing with 7d2d, i wouldnt stay excited for any of their new game.

While I agree the game has been simplified, I do not agree it has been ruined.

Bringing back wet concrete and rebar will not bring any value back and just cause delays.

sorry the game isn’t going in a direction you like.

[Syphon583]

24 minutes ago, Walder said:

This just goes to show that the devs have absolutely no definitive vision for the game, they keep changing/experimenting, as they have done for almost 1 decade... the next update will make it 10 (!) years. Is there any other game that wants to go for 2 decades before it is released? I can imagine some of the original team will get retired before this happens, by the way this is looking.

I fail to see why this is a problem. If that's the way they choose to develop the game, and they have players who continue to play and try out these new features, what's the harm? It definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea, and if so, move on. You've likely got your money's worth of entertainment out of the game. What's the problem with the creators of the game wanting to, I don't know, create?

 

24 minutes ago, Walder said:

It's kinda mindboggling that modders can do a better job to keep players entertained than the actually developers of the game.

It's kinda mindboggling that some players assume what is fun for them is fun for everyone. There are plenty of players that prefer the vanilla experience. I've tried multiple overhaul mods for this game, and honestly, I don't enjoy them as much and find what TFP are doing more entertaining. Does that mean I don't agree with what modders are doing? Of course not, because I don't assume what's fun for me is fun for all. Mod the hell out the game. TFP designed it in a way that makes that possible, so for you to criticize them for supporting the modding community is also truly mindboggling.

 

Anyways, it sounds like you've given up playing the game, but you seem to enjoy the mods, so what's stopping you from playing those? Why you felt the need to come here and criticize is a little odd. Move on.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Syphon583 (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Walder said:

This just goes to show that the devs have absolutely no definitive vision for the game, they keep changing/experimenting, as they have done for almost 1 decade... the next update will make it 10 (!) years. Is there any other game that wants to go for 2 decades before it is released? I can imagine some of the original team will get retired before this happens, by the way this is looking.

This just goes to show you are not well suited to play a game that is still in development. The devs have always had an overall vision for what they want to do with the details being subject to experimentation and iterative development. For example, they always knew they would have characters progress in skills and abilities like an RPG. Did they know exactly how they would implement that goal? Not exactly which is why it has undergone several iterations.  Some people have a hard time seeing the evolution and so they think one whole system was completely replaced by another whole system but that is not true. Everything the game is today is because of evolving systems through experimenting and problem solving. But, again, some people look at something like LBD and think that 7 Days to Die was always envisioned as an LBD game but then the devs abandoned that and changed their game.

 

No. This was never an LBD game. It was always a game about character progression and LBD was the method used during one part of the evolution. 
 

There are plenty of games that use early access to crowd fund their already practically finished game after having done most of the development work behind closed doors. This studio actually began early access with their game at an extremely early stage and have come a long way. 
 

It is finally at the stage at which most other studios start thinking about putting their offerings out for early access. Maybe it was a mistake for them to have opened up their development versions from such an early stage but I’m glad they did. It has been very interesting to witness the journey. If A1-A19 had all been done privately and A20 was the first time it came to early access you would have no knowledge of all the changes that happened.

 

1 hour ago, Walder said:

It's kinda mindboggling that modders can do a better job to keep players entertained than the actually developers of the game.

No it’s not. When developers do what the modders are doing it is called scope creep. The developers have very specific goals they are sticking to whereas modders have no restrictions. The devs have a standard of quality they have to maintain so that a wide range of configurations can access the game at a reasonable level of performance whereas modders are forgiven if not everything works 100%  

 

The devs are trying to finish the basic version of the game that will be what brand new players purchase once it is released. Modders can cater to veterans who are bored with the fundamental version and want more challenges and more content beyond the scope of the base game. 
 

It really shouldn’t be difficult to understand this unless you don’t understand the overall model of playing a game early while it is still in full development mode. 
 

Your comments reveal that you really don’t get that this game is unfinished and the devs are working to get the 1.0 version finished. It shows that you emotionally consider this game fully released and the devs should be working on expansion and dlc content to extend the gameplay so that those of us who have played everything can have more to do. 
 

Hope that clears up your confusion so that what is happening no longer boggles your mind. With the correct view of what development means it is pretty simple to understand. 

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well even games after complete get big overhauls - cod  WW2 ,  mount and blade with fire and swrod

Yes, for sequels.  They didn’t change COD 1 into a WW2 game after it was released and force an update on everyone who owned it. They brought it in as a brand new game and charged a premium price for the new version. 
 

A21 7 Days to Die is not a sequel to A20 7 Days to Die.  A21 isn’t a DLC or an expansion to A20. It is the next public development iteration which means that any and all systems and features are subject to changes. 

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

Yes, for sequels.  They didn’t change COD 1 into a WW2 game after it was released and force an update on everyone who owned it. They brought it in as a brand new game and charged a premium price for the new version. 
 

A21 7 Days to Die is not a sequel to A20 7 Days to Die.  A21 isn’t a DLC or an expansion to A20. It is the next public development iteration which means that any and all systems and features are subject to changes. 

Not for sequels. CoD WW2 was a name of game. MP had rly big overhaul in one of the seasons. It was like...  what if TFP would Add LBD, food spoiling, zombie children, reduce bullets by 90% in next update. It was soo big - big changes in guns, perks, classes , guns modifications , respawn system ,eq so totaly new game. and was obligatory. Most tactics etc was not actual + small but important changes in maps. Btw i wish you were right - CoD CW 1 day - it's looks rly seriouse , cold war guns, realistic setting etc. after few seazons - anime girls, pink tanks, dragons guns etc so it looks now like asian F2P Shooter. 

 

M&B Fire and sword actual steam version looks much diffrent that older.... "dvd" version.  this game game solid overhaul too - how weapons, AI , politics etc works.  Yes still it's polish civil war setting but it's totaly diffrent game

Edited July 5, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

Not for sequels. CoD WW2 was a name of game.

 

Matt, I don't know how many of the games you got in Poland, but in the USA CoD WW2 was the thirteenth sequel to the original. Call of Duty released in 2003 as a fully released and finished game. Fourteen years later in 2017 CoD WW2 was released as a separate game in the Call of Duty franchise. It most definitely is a sequel and most definitely not an overhaul of the original main game.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

It was like...  what if TFP would Add LBD, food spoiling, zombie children, reduce bullets by 90% in next update. It was soo big - big changes in guns, perks, classes , guns modifications , respawn system ,eq so totaly new game. and was obligatory. Most tactics etc was not actual + small but important changes in maps.

 

No. It would be like 7 Days to Die the basic first game releases in 2023 and then in fourteen years after a dozen other 7 Days to Die games (all of which must be purchased as full separate games) THEN a fourteenth 7 Days to Die game releases with big changes in guns, perks, classes, gun mods, respawn system, etc.

 

That's the whole point. The devs are trying to put out the first 7 Days to Die game not having even released a full game yet. You and others are wanting them to pretend they've already released the base version and to start building on that put out what amounts to a sequel or a large expansion of new content to satisfy you because you are basically done with the basic game.

 

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

MP had rly big overhaul in one of the seasons.

 

Okay, I didn't catch this at first. You mean to say that CoD WW2 was released and then it underwent a huge overhaul in one of its seasons. That still does not apply to 7 Days to Die now which has not even been released yet and once it does get released will not be following a Season Pass model.

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Matt, I don't know how many of the games you got in Poland, but in the USA CoD WW2 was the thirteenth sequel to the original. Call of Duty released in 2003 as a fully released and finished game. Fourteen years later in 2017 CoD WW2 was released as a separate game in the Call of Duty franchise. It most definitely is a sequel and most definitely not an overhaul of the original main game.

You wrote "Change is part of development" so my point was that big  overhaul happens even after released of  completed game.  

 

Overhaul

Since April 10, 2018, an update has been made to the game to revamp the Divisions and related core systems of the multiplayer. The attachments and abilities for the divisions, such as the Submachine Gun Suppressor and the Rifle Bayonet, is now available without having to equip its division, Sniper Sharpshooter & LMG bipod are standard on all divisions As part of this update, all divisions up to Resistance had their specific-class attachments replaced with other abilities, followed by changes on some of the remaining three abilities. Divisions added after this update, such as Cavalry and Commando, had already been implemented with 4 integral divisions skills.

 

Divisions | Call of Duty Wiki | Fandom

And more other thing were changed

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

That's the whole point. The devs are trying to put out the first 7 Days to Die game not having even released a full game yet. You and others are wanting them to pretend they've already released the base version and to start building on that put out what amounts to a sequel or a large expansion of new content to satisfy you because you are basically done with the basic game.

 

 

Nope.  My point was that games get big changes even after game offical released and it was not connected with 7DTD but only with this  "Change is part of development". 

 

 

[Roland]

25 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

You wrote "Change is part of development" so my point was that big  overhaul happens even after released of  completed game.  

 

Overhaul

Since April 10, 2018, an update has been made to the game to revamp the Divisions and related core systems of the multiplayer. The attachments and abilities for the divisions, such as the Submachine Gun Suppressor and the Rifle Bayonet, is now available without having to equip its division, Sniper Sharpshooter & LMG bipod are standard on all divisions As part of this update, all divisions up to Resistance had their specific-class attachments replaced with other abilities, followed by changes on some of the remaining three abilities. Divisions added after this update, such as Cavalry and Commando, had already been implemented with 4 integral divisions skills.

 

Divisions | Call of Duty Wiki | Fandom

And more other thing were changed

Nope.  My point was that games get big changes even after game offical released and it was not connected with 7DTD but only with this  "Change is part of development". 

 

 

 

Okay, Matt, change and overhauls can happen to games after they are released-- particularly if they follow a Season Pass or Subscription model. That doesn't mean that my statement that "Change is part of development" is inaccurate. Regardless of examples of released games that underwent a major overhaul at the start of a new season, that has no bearing on the fact that during development existing features and mechanics and systems often undergo changes as a matter of course until the development team feels that what they have is the final product they want to ship. During development change is a regularity. After development is over it is rare-- which is probably why it was such a big deal for that game.

 

Once 7 Days to Die is released, the systems, mechanisms, and features will be set in place. The developers will never return to the game and overhaul how crafting is done, or how farming is done, or how progression is done as they have during the last 9 years of developing their game. There won't ever be a new season of 7 Days to Die that totally overhauls how the game is played.

 

They will still do updates but it will be to add a new quest type, or a new book set, or some new POI's-- basically more of what we already have. But, regardless of what other titles may have done post release, I can tell you that TFP will not be overhauling the game once it ships complete. That will be solely the domain of modders.

 

If your goal was to make me restate that phrase to "Change is part of development. It can also occur at times in select cases after a game releases."

 

Fine. Happy to make the change.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Matt115]

12 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

 

Once 7 Days to Die is released, the systems, mechanisms, and features will be set in place. The developers will never return to the game and overhaul how crafting is done, or how farming is done, or how progression is done as they have during the last 9 years of developing their game. There won't ever be a new season of 7 Days to Die that totally overhauls how the game is played.

 

And this rly good. and i'm happy about that.

12 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

They will still do updates but it will be to add a new quest type, or a new book set, or some new POI's-- basically more of what we already have. But, regardless of what other titles may have done post release, I can tell you that TFP will not be overhauling the game once it ships complete. That will be solely the domain of modders.

 

If your goal was to make me restate that phrase to "Change is part of development. It can also occur at times in select cases after a game releases."

 

Fine. Happy to make the change.

 I think even something like this will be not neccesary anymore after adding workshops - you want new POi? just check workshop. I love steam  workshop so much - no longer problems with mods (launchers, folders changes in files) , just subscribe and that's it.

 

Now it is perfect 😜

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Think how simplified games have to be for console gamers (because they're idiots), and you will have your answer. 

Nope. Reason is diffrent - pad have less "options" and is less precise that mouse+keyboard. So thing have to be simpler because of that. You know soullikes games first were on consoles ?

[maxousara]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:01 PM, Diragor said:

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by maxousara
Why its always the console players fault and if you're not happy about 7 days play others game or play with mods its not the fault of the rest of the world if your unhappy me i love the game like that. (see edit history)

[Blake_]

53 minutes ago, Morloc said:

 

Would likely need to be magic fantasy flame throwers as the real thing only carried enough fuel for 10 seconds of use.

 

Mind you, those 10 seconds would be pretty nifty.

 

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

Indeed. I would need to burn gas cans like crazy. A very good late game weapon, in my opinion.

[Andy Red]

On 7/2/2022 at 8:21 AM, thecapotek said:

The game is good and all, I keep playing it occasionally. What actually bothers me is that there's still no actual point to it.
There's no consolidated storyline or quest system that leads up to something.
I mean, I gather resources, weapons, food and all that, in order to achieve what, exactly?
I'm not really up to speed with game updates and betas but there doesn't seem to be any actual work towards this direction. Not to mention the fact the game hasn't left Alpha stage despite being worked on for years and years. I'm not even trying to be hostile or anything, I enjoy the game as I said, I just think that sooner or later a game has to have an actual goal for the player to achieve.

Isn't the point to "survive"? And then to "thrive" in the post-apocalyptic expanse?
It is an "open world" game afterall, it's not a quest-driven game. The main goal being able to survive the ever increasing difficulty Bloodmoons.

[Jost Amman]

43 minutes ago, Andy Red said:

Isn't the point to "survive"? And then to "thrive" in the post-apocalyptic expanse?
It is an "open world" game afterall, it's not a quest-driven game. The main goal being able to survive the ever increasing difficulty Bloodmoons.

Sorry for the "nitpicking", but Open World doesn't mean no goal, open world means the game is not linear, and you can go wherever you want whenever you want, that's all.

You probably wanted to say that 7D2D is a Sandbox game.

[Uncle Al]

3 minutes ago, Brunik Rokbyter said:

 

 

So... for the questions!  My family typically plays as a 4-5 unit.  Typically each person picks an attribute to play with primarily, then branches slightly as we get further into the game.  This gives us each a feeling of specialization.  My concerns are around "RNG duplication" in a multiple player environment.  6 copies of a magazine no one needs anymore where we have 1 we just can't find that's gating our capacity to get to something we NEED.

 

 

From everything I've seen so far, you've nothing to worry about.

 

The biggest change of the new system is it means you always effectively find schematics in order.  If you can craft an SMG you will always learn to craft a a magnum first.  If you can craft a cement mixer you already know how to craft a workbench.

 

The magazines aren't unique titles.  Every single issue of 'sharp sticks' or 'advanced engineering weekly' or whatever is the same.  You just have to find 60 or 100 or whatever of them to totally max out that crafting skill.

 

So long as you mostly pool what you find you'll probably learn key recipes very fast - i.e. if the five of you each happen to find five copies of advanced engineering weekly while doing your thing, so long as you give them all to one person they'll end up with 25 in engineering crafting.  Everybody reading their own magazines and ending up with 5 in crafting each isn't very efficient.  Crafting forges will probably be something like 10 engineering skill, so it's incredibly unlikely a solo player, let alone a cooperating team, will get past early game without being able to craft one.

 

As far as 'useless duplicates' goes, the idea seems to be that once you maximise a crafting skill, your relevant perks (if you have them) no longer increase the drop rate of the magazine that supports that craft.  Other players' skills don't impact your drops, and you still always have the baseline drop rate of the magazine type.  That means if you count drops once one person on your team has maxed out skill as 'useless', yeah I'm afraid you'll keep getting drops that don't unlock anything the team can't already craft.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Brunik Rokbyter said:

Like, surviving until day 3 without a forge was difficult.

 

If you feel you MUST have a forge before Day 3 you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. I feel that it is safe to say nobody will go 30 days without a forge but if 3 days is your breaking point I'm not sure whether you make it.

[Brunik Rokbyter]

13 minutes ago, Uncle Al said:

As far as 'useless duplicates' goes, the idea seems to be that once you maximise a crafting skill, your relevant perks (if you have them) no longer increase the drop rate of the magazine that supports that craft.  Other players' skills don't impact your drops, and you still always have the baseline drop rate of the magazine type.  That means if you count drops once one person on your team has maxed out skill as 'useless', yeah I'm afraid you'll keep getting drops that don't unlock anything the team can't already craft.

To be fair, I power skimmed this thread looking for confirmation of this... but couldn't seem to find any.  That's what happens when you walk up on a monstrous 40 page thread and hope to input fears and hopes and dreams 😄 

 

Knowing that its "one magazine gives points on one skill" and not "This magazine gives this point" similar to how it is now makes much more sense, and makes things more easily "feasible".

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

If you feel you MUST have a forge before Day 3 you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. I feel that it is safe to say nobody will go 30 days without a forge but if 3 days is your breaking point I'm not sure whether you make it.

*WAS* the game breaking point.  Then they super softened it... then they added canned water, and then they tightened it again.  Long iterations ago expectations... trying to make sure I understand the intent so I can look better forward to what I expect to see 🙂

 

I'm ALWAYS excited to log in here and see patch notes, and more excited to get to play with the new toys!