Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Matt115]

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

From the look of your avatar, that game is way too confining. Plus, I don't like to deal with the news. Do the developers of that newsstand game force me to deal with the news when I what I find fun to do is to search the nearby gutters for bottlecaps?

Only bins -  gutters will be added in "You will get  newsstand as inheritance " dlc.  ^^ . You can sell cigarets toys too! just remember that without fresh news what happened in your neightborgood you will lose rep point with "old mamas" faction

[Roland]

1 minute ago, Matt115 said:

Only bins -  gutters will be added in "You will get  newsstand as inheritance " dlc.  ^^ . You can sell cigarets toys too! just remember that without fresh news what happened in your neightborgood you will lose rep point with "old mamas" faction

 

So essentially I'm REQUIRED to deal with the news or I get PUNISHED. That sounds like very poor design forcing me to play a portion of the game I don't enjoy or be gimped.

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

So essentially I'm REQUIRED to deal with the news or I get PUNISHED. That sounds like very poor design forcing me to play a portion of the game I don't enjoy or be gimped.

This depends what ending you want to get. Sorry this is not a sandbox but hardcore economical RPG! 

[Jost Amman]

28 minutes ago, Roland said:

So essentially I'm REQUIRED to deal with the news or I get PUNISHED. That sounds like very poor design forcing me to play a portion of the game I don't enjoy or be gimped.

Matt knows that if you stay in there long enough, you'll one day become a skeleton!

That's the end-game content for the Newsstand video game. 

[Matt115]

1 minute ago, Jost Amman said:

Matt knows that if you stay in there long enough, you'll one day become a skeleton!

That's the end-game content for the Newsstand video game. 

Yep  Small leak -- there will be "newsstand in afterlife" and in this dlc you have too run your newsstand in afterlife... for eternity! 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Roland We will see. There is a few. Project Zomboid for example let´s people stay at home and build, farm and cook without any disadvantages if others go out looting. That also works for Conan Exiles. Or Sons of the Forest once it´s released (Assuming it didn´t change too much from the first part). Also Subsistence, but that one still lacks content, but it´s early access also. And surely a few others i haven´t discovered yet.

 

@Jost Amman You know very well that what @KhaineGB says about the forums is true. You are very active in the steam forums and you have seen exactly that argument a lot of times. People don´t come exactly for that reason and you know it.

Edited May 22, 2022 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[KhaineGB]

7 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

EXCUSE ME?? 

Are you effing high?? You just called me, along with the rest of this forum, mindless drones / clap-bots fanboys, and you THINK YOU'VE BEEN POLITE?? 

 

And then, after I obviously react to being insulted, you use MY reaction to stigmatize my "rudeness"?? Are you @%$#ing for real, man? 

I'm all open to discussion, just don't use words like fanboy, white knight or mindless drone and the such... I'm not the type who likes being insulted and do nothing.

Am I high? No, but you are.

You know why? Because you're blaming ME for repeating what other people have told me regaridng the perception of this forum. So you know how you're being angry and throwing insults at me? 

Yeah, that's why you're being rude. If you don't like it, go on other social media sites and challenge the people whom i've repeated. Not me. Because I'll just call you out on being rude and impolite since you're "shooting the messenger."

[Roland]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Roland We will see. There is a few. Project Zomboid for example let´s people stay at home and build, farm and cook without any disadvantages if others go out looting. That also works for Conan Exiles. Or Sons of the Forest once it´s released (Assuming it didn´t change too much from the first part). Also Subsistence, but that one still lacks content, but it´s early access also. And surely a few others i haven´t discovered yet.

 

Well then its good that you'll have options available to you if you can't stomach the change.

 

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

@Jost Amman You know very well that what @KhaineGB says about the forums is true. You are very active in the steam forums and you have seen exactly that argument a lot of times. People don´t come exactly for that reason and you know it.

 

I don't feel a bit of sympathy for those people, frankly. If they feel more comfortable posting on Steam then they have an outlet for what they want to say in the way they want to say it and the devs monitor steam so their criticism will still likely get heard.

 

Honestly, is there anyone who wants this forum to allow the same tone and toxicity level as Steam? Like I said, people post negative reactions to the game all the time here. Just had a few more pop up on the dev diary in fact. You, yourself, posted criticism against how the servers have been divided into regions and your misgivings about the new system. How is it you can post what you do and not get destroyed by all the fanboys or banned by the power mad super moderator? It is because you aren't insulting and toxic in your posting-- even when you are angry-- like whenever you perceived the game was becoming soft on survival elements over the years. If Khaine was 100% right you would never have posted such critical feedback but obviously you've felt safe enough posting your true opinion.

 

The people who get banned for their toxic behavior and then go to Steam to say this forum doesn't allow any criticism are exactly the people we don't want here and I will continue to get rid of them even if it means their tales make others too nervous to post here. We get new accounts all the time who run the range of praising to ranting and as long as they aren't jerks to other people or completely toxic and libeling the devs they get along just fine.

 

Khaine's point was that it is too bad that more people don't feel comfortable coming here to post criticism because the devs are only getting one-sided feedback from blindly supportive fans who immediately pounce on and suppress the criticism. He felt this way because he assumed the devs weren't monitoring other social media. But the truth is the devs are getting the praise and the criticism and so Steam and Reddit can continue to be bastions of those who want to post their dislikes in the rudest way possible and castigate anyone they view as a fanboi and this place can be a place where people can post positive or negative reactions to what the devs do while watching the rudeness.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[KhaineGB]

@Roland One thing I do wanna say, the people who claim this place is full of yes men and toxic have NO IDEA how nice this forum is.

The game I work for? Holy crap, the forums are WAY, WAY WORSE. There's a reason I stick to my assigned moderation area and let everyone else deal with the rest.

Edited May 23, 2022 by KhaineGB (see edit history)

[meganoth]

17 hours ago, ArmoredStone said:

You seem very confident that there are no successful games designed, heavily influenced by their communities.

 

I was asking a question and even saying I remember having heard about one. I myself have followed only two EA game developments closely till now, 7D2D and Factorio. While Factorio has a stellar reputation for their communication, they posted smallest details, and even code and algorithms sometimes. They also sometimes discussed new features with the community to get feedback (and this may be a good part of what you want), BUT they still kept the final decision on everything to themselves.

A good example was the removal of the pick which was opposed by a lot of players, including important modders.

 

I know of a few singular events done by other developers to ask the community, but they were always exceptions:

For example one developer who's name I don't remember asked for the next RPG class to be made (but eventually all of them would be made, it was only about the sequence of production)

 

And the only event I know of, where actually a deeply important question was put before the community was done by Inxile when it asked whether Tides of Numenera should be turn-based or realtime-with-pause.

 

No question I'm doubtful about it being done by lots of developers. So I'd like to hear of a good example. I'm surprised you could list so many. Did they all do polls about important changes or were they just more open than TFP ?

 

17 hours ago, ArmoredStone said:

 

Games heavily influenced by communities and mod-makers (taken just from a glance at my steam library and wishlist):

Rust, Scum, Satisfactory, Space Engineers, Eco, Rimworld, Don't Starve, Battlebit, Raft, Project Zomboid, Stranded Deep, Ravenfield, probably hundreds more I don't care to keep writing down to prove a point. 

 

Ok, picking just one of that list as an example because I backed it in kickstarter, can you give examples how the community was involved in Rimworld?

 

17 hours ago, ArmoredStone said:

 

And what point are you trying to prove by the second paragraph? The entire purpose of a poll system is to appeal to the majority of players. You arguing that the devs should do whatever they want and the community should just deal with it, would likely result in the game NOT appealing to as many people as it potentially could. That paragraph literally made no sense.

 

I'm trying to find out how sincere you are about the polling. And I actually think the question is a really hard to answer question and maybe there is no good answer at all. It is a question every democracy around the world wants an answer to.

 

As I explained I would not be really comfortable about every game always going to majority tastes, because often I'm part of a minority when it comes to games. Would it not make all games similar if only the majority got their way?

 

17 hours ago, ArmoredStone said:

Oh, and a passive-aggressive winky face 😉

 

Wonderful, not even a smiley is harmless, it must be passive-aggressive!

I get the impression I could have written anything and you would have found incriminating evidence between the lines.

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

4 hours ago, KhaineGB said:

@Roland One thing I do wanna say, the people who claim this place is full of yes men and toxic have NO IDEA how nice this forum is.

The game I work for? Holy crap, the forums are WAY, WAY WORSE. There's a reason I stick to my assigned moderation area and let everyone else deal with the rest.

 

And what game is that?  I am genuinely curious.

[KhaineGB]

57 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

And what game is that?  I am genuinely curious.

Dead by Daylight.

I do Tech Support.

Edited May 23, 2022 by KhaineGB (see edit history)

[stallionsden]

1 hour ago, KhaineGB said:

Dead by Daylight.

I do Tech Support.

what happens if you dont die by daylight 😛 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Roland It´s not only steam where this happens and it´s not only toxic people. This is a wide spread opinion. Wrong or not doesn´t matter. It´s a reason people don´t come here.

 

@KhaineGB My condolences. 😛 That community is something else. I am not a big fan of the game myself, it has basically every horror franchise, so we won´t see any other games from those anytime soon. Wich does suck tbh.

[KhaineGB]

2 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@KhaineGB My condolences. 😛 That community is something else. I am not a big fan of the game myself, it has basically every horror franchise, so we won´t see any other games from those anytime soon. Wich does suck tbh.

I enjoy it, but yeah, the community can be REALLY bad. The steam and reddit is even worse.

[Jost Amman]

8 hours ago, KhaineGB said:

You know why? Because you're blaming ME for repeating what other people have told me regaridng the perception of this forum. So you know how you're being angry and throwing insults at me?

Quote

He's unfortunately right. The forum is mostly full of people who blindly support TFP.

 

Unfortunately for you, I have proof you stated that, also as your opinion.

Please, stop hiding behind a finger... I'd accept and apology, and I'll apologize in turn for my reaction IF you take responsibility that what you said is offensive.

[KhaineGB]

Okay? Then I worded it badly. But I said MOSTLY. Not ALL.

If YOU feel that YOU are included in that? That's still a you problem.

Offense is taken. Not given. AKA - You decided to read it, unilaterally decide it applies to everyone, including you, and took offense.

Not my problem.

Edited May 23, 2022 by KhaineGB (see edit history)

[Roland]

6 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Roland It´s not only steam where this happens and it´s not only toxic people. This is a wide spread opinion. Wrong or not doesn´t matter. It´s a reason people don´t come here.

I understand that. My point is that the only way to “fix” that is to allow the toxic people to be toxic with no consequences. They are the ones who get banned and then lie about why they get banned. I’m not willing to do that and let this place turn into a cesspool where every debate is raunchy, insulting, and the overall slant of the forum is negative. 
 

So I accept our wide spread reputation and that it keeps some people from posting here. Like I said, this forum isn’t the only place the devs collect feedback from and I honestly believe that if anyone lurked here they would see how tame it is here and how often people “get away with” posting negative feedback.
 

So if they want to believe some rando who got banned for bad behavior who lies and says they got banned for telling the truth about how bad the game has become and people should just stay away rather than coming here themselves to see what it’s like, that’s their choice. 
 

And if they’re happy posting on Facebook that the devs are lazy for taking 15 years to finish this game because they’ll get a lot of +1s instead of corrections then I’m glad they have a place that validates them. 

I know Khaine gets it. Not long ago a guy was mad about something he wanted changed with Darkness Falls and was being disruptive and insulting against Khaine and his crew even in personal messages. I banned the guy and cleaned up his abusive posts on the DF thread. Do you think that guy is going to go to the subreddit and admit he was out of line or is he going to badmouth the forum and Khaine’s unwillingness to accept criticism?  Is Khaines thread better or worse with those posts gone? Are there folks who may listen to that guy elsewhere and choose never to come here or to download DF? 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[SnowDog1942]

18 minutes ago, Roland said:

 where every debate is raunchy

 

Whats so bad about raunchy?

[Roland]

Weapons and tools should have a finite lifespan. I don’t think they should degrade to lower quality tiers. They just should become unrepairable. Maybe you can repair something twice but after that the repair kit doesn’t work and the item is only good for parts. This would be a significant change to improve both crafting and looting. I did a play through where I immediately scrapped repair kits and it was great. I’ll probably start that up again. Repairs for primitive stuff is fine but anything that needs a repair kit should be limited.  Think about the diamond edge mod that extends durability. Who the heck cares how long durability lasts when a single repair kit restores it to full again? 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Roland Why do you act like i want those people here or that i approve their behaviour? I just said that Khaine is right when he says people don´t come here for that reason.

Edited May 23, 2022 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[KhaineGB]

58 minutes ago, Roland said:

I know Khaine gets it. Not long ago a guy was mad about something he wanted changed with Darkness Falls and was being disruptive and insulting against Khaine and his crew even in personal messages. I banned the guy and cleaned up his abusive posts on the DF thread. Do you think that guy is going to go to the subreddit and admit he was out of line or is he going to badmouth the forum and Khaine’s unwillingness to accept criticism?  Is Khaines thread better or worse with those posts gone? Are there folks who may listen to that guy elsewhere and choose never to come here or to download DF? 

That guy was tame compared to the insults I get on the Dead by Daylight forums when users refuse to listen that their system is the problem and not the game

One of the other moderators (a friend of mine) has had straight up death threats on the forum, in her inbox and then via twitter after they got banned. Had to get authorities involved.

Edited May 23, 2022 by KhaineGB (see edit history)

[Roland]

@pApA^LeGBa More like I’m using your post to get my point across that I’m okay with Khaine being right about the perception people have about our forum than thinking that you want those people here or approve of their behavior. 

3 minutes ago, KhaineGB said:

That guy was tame compared to the insults I get on the Dead by Daylight forums when users refuse to listen that their system is the problem and not the game

One of the other moderators (a friend of mine) has had straight up death threats on the forum, in her inbox and then via twitter after they got banned. Had to get authorities involved.

I don’t doubt it. I will have had cancer 20 times over and family that will have died in a house fire about as many times if personal messages came true…lol

Edited May 23, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

10 minutes ago, Roland said:

Weapons and tools should have a finite lifespan. I don’t think they should degrade to lower quality tiers. They just should become unrepairable. Maybe you can repair something twice but after that the repair kit doesn’t work and the item is only good for parts. This would be a significant change to improve both crafting and looting. 

 

I feel the same.  This may have been more hardcore in A20 but with A21, it might be more feasible.  If its still too hardcore at least pipe weapons should be irreparable to help balance them out.

 

Those pipe machine guns are still way OP imo.

[KhaineGB]

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

@pApA^LeGBa More like I’m using your post to get my point across that I’m okay with Khaine being right about the perception people have about our forum than thinking that you want those people here or approve of their behavior. 

I don’t doubt it. I will have had cancer 20 times over and family that will have died in a house fire about as many times if personal messages came true…lol

Apparently I've got a similar amount of cancers, i'm living in a basement at my parents house as a virgin (even though UK houses don't have basements) and also banging my mother at the same time going by some of those users.