Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[meganoth]

16 hours ago, Matt115 said:

1. uh... Actually honestly i think even this not "what game developers want" because... if leaks are true Activision too much want to control cod devs - this mean good ideas supported by both devs and players are throw to bin because finanscial guys says so. But i hope it will change in future after change of  managment .... Honestly  a lot of  important cod zombie devs decided to left treyarch so this hurt a lot 😕

 

Which actually gives players a better chance to influence the game. Because Activision will do anything which improves the sales (including changing the game in ways that would compromise the devs vision).

This means you won't get the very lucrative in-game shops removed, but if the community wanted pink uniforms they would find listeners in management 😁

 

16 hours ago, Matt115 said:

2. Good advice - mods maps are much more difficult that  orginal maps. Well COD B03 have soo good zombie chronicle DLC - one of the best dlc stuff in history. But cod CW have much more better gameplay - outbreake is soooo good and a lot of free maps

 

I doubt we have the same criteria how to measure a games quality.

 

16 hours ago, Matt115 said:

3. So that's why i suggest add Teenage zombies ( let say 16 yo zombie) as part of "enemy pack dlc' - because a lot of people want them in 7dtd

 

Sorry, but that is wishful thinking on your part. There is no widespread support for that. Show me a post of yours demanding underage zombies with at least 3 likes or approving comments. Show me 3 other people asking for that in the last year (use the search function and you should find them if they exist).

 

16 hours ago, Matt115 said:

and a lot of them no so this could be good compromise - if someone want this person can download if not well he don't have to.  I think this could be supported but... honestly i'm afraid that TFP don't want to make dlc because they don't talk about dlc

 

They surely don't want to make a DLC that is only available in some countries but not others. There won't be enough additional sales because of the existence of underage zombies in this DLC that would outweigh the lost sales in countries that won't allow it. If someone from TFP had said something like "we really want to, but ..." the idea might still have a minimal chance, but TFP have never shown any desire for touching that hot potato.

 

 

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Which actually gives players a better chance to influence the game. Because Activision will do anything which improves the sales (including changing the game in ways that would compromise the devs vision).

This means you won't get the very lucrative in-game shops removed, but if the community wanted pink uniforms they would find listeners in management 😁

 

 

I doubt we have the same criteria how to measure a games quality.

 

 

Sorry, but that is wishful thinking on your part. There is no widespread support for that. Show me a post of yours demanding underage zombies with at least 3 likes or approving comments. Show me 3 other people asking for that in the last year (use the search function and you should find them if they exist).

 

 

They surely don't want to make a DLC that is only available in some countries but not others. There won't be enough additional sales because of the existence of underage zombies in this DLC that would outweigh the lost sales in countries that won't allow it. If someone from TFP had said something like "we really want to, but ..." the idea might still have a minimal chance, but TFP have never shown any desire for touching that hot potato.

 

 

Still i don't know how you split quotes in parts xd rly it' so usefull xd

1. And.... they even make sales worst. And that's unfortunatly fact - and .... people don't want pink uniforms in WW2 game. Yes people still buying anime or  king kong packs but much less that in CW or  MW2019. Vanguard is mistake and i can send you a lot of diffrent links to YT creators why cod is so .... ( a lot of negative words). And number of players + sales comfirmed that Activison don't know any longer what to do save situation.

2. BO3 zombie mode - cool maps, a lot of secret mechanics and tons of grinding, very hard easter egg quests and good story. BO4 - terrible maps but cool story . CW - medicore story but a lot of unlocks , things to do , easier easter egg questes, a lot of diffrents zombie modes , survival maps and outbreake maps

3. Okay i can do it but - you want to put in comment or send this on privet to avoid offtopic?

4. Honestly this solution is used before by Creative Assembly with Blood dlc ( they have diffrents names but this same meaning). TW have lower age rating because in some countries (if i good remember NZ and Australia) it would had been censored. So they added this as dlc. Well that's true that Blood dlc have bad opinion because people saying it should be added to game for free or even for beggining but still people buy them. So.. i think "zombie pack" for free ( L4D2 gore dlc) or cheap 1$ dollar dlc would be good option 

[meganoth]

26 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Still i don't know how you split quotes in parts xd rly it' so usefull xd

1. And.... they even make sales worst. And that's unfortunatly fact - and .... people don't want pink uniforms in WW2 game.

 

It is no surprise you want serious games, because you can't even see humor applied with bold strokes. Pink uniforms was an obvious exaggerated joke example to show that management would do the worst crimes for a few more bucks. No need to tell me that people don't want it.

 

26 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Yes people still buying anime or  king kong packs but much less that in CW or  MW2019. Vanguard is mistake and i can send you a lot of diffrent links to YT creators why cod is so .... ( a lot of negative words). And number of players + sales comfirmed that Activison don't know any longer what to do save situation.

26 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

2. BO3 zombie mode - cool maps, a lot of secret mechanics and tons of grinding, very hard easter egg quests and good story. BO4 - terrible maps but cool story . CW - medicore story but a lot of unlocks , things to do , easier easter egg questes, a lot of diffrents zombie modes , survival maps and outbreake maps

3. Okay i can do it but - you want to put in comment or send this on privet to avoid offtopic?

 

Sure, send me a pm. Afterwards I'll send you the same for people asking for LBD or asking for PvP exploits being removed and we'll compare.

 

26 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

4. Honestly this solution is used before by Creative Assembly with Blood dlc ( they have diffrents names but this same meaning). TW have lower age rating because in some countries (if i good remember NZ and Australia) it would had been censored. So they added this as dlc. Well that's true that Blood dlc have bad opinion because people saying it should be added to game for free or even for beggining but still people buy them. So.. i think "zombie pack" for free ( L4D2 gore dlc) or cheap 1$ dollar dlc would be good option 

 

Naturally people buy the DLC because they are fans of the game and want more NPCs of any kind, maps or whatever else this pack provides. But how many of those people did buy it just because it added underage zombies and would not have bought it otherwise? I can't say that for CA's game, but I don't see any indication in the forum of 7D2D that a DLC for it adding new zombies would sell so much better if some of the additional zombies in it were underage. 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

7 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

It is no surprise you want serious games, because you can't even see humor applied with bold strokes. Pink uniforms was an obvious exaggerated joke example to show that management would do the worst crimes for a few more bucks. No need to tell me that people don't want it.

 

 

Sure, send me a pm. Afterwards I'll send you the same for people asking for LBD or asking for PvP exploits being removed and we'll compare.

 

 

Naturally people buy the DLC because they are fans of the game and want more NPCs of any kind, maps or whatever else this pack provides. But how many of those people did buy it just because it added underage zombies and would not have bought it otherwise? I can't say that for CA's game, but I don't see any indication in the forum of 7D2D that a DLC for it adding new zombies would sell so much better if some of the additional zombies in it were underage. 

 

1. Well... You can find pink skins for guns and characters in cod. You know WW2 was meh game but had good skins - a lot of diffrent real soldiers from diffrent fronts -- it's looks a little bit stupid to see 1939 polish officer in winter jacket fighting in Africa but much better that  armored titan or ghost xd.

2. Well there is no chance for LBD because this is "core mechanic"  and adding this as dlc would be not possible but adding few new enemies is not such big deal.

3. i never wrote it will make make sell of dlc much better. i think it will  cover dlc production cost for sure + earn clear profit. I'm not sure how much it will earn. 

My suggestion is make few enemy packs : 1. teenager zombie dlc pack 2. Cultist packs 3. mutants pack 4. Zombie asusment park (bigger dlc ) 5. zombie swamp dlc (bigger dlc) and dunno - and make option to buy pack of dlc or single dlc

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

2. Well there is no chance for LBD because this is "core mechanic"  and adding this as dlc would be not possible but adding few new enemies is not such big deal.

 

It is not a bigger change than the new crafting mechanic and almost all of it can be done in XML. It would not be your usual run-of-the-mill more-maps-NPCs-quests DLC, sure, but quite possible.

 

But that wasn't why I mentioned it. I wanted to show you topics that are actually popular (and still not popular enough to change the developers minds).

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

3. i never wrote it will make make sell of dlc much better. i think it will  cover dlc production cost for sure + earn clear profit. I'm not sure how much it will earn. 

 

I can think of only two reasons why they would consider it:

 

Because lots and lots of players demand it and it would therefore generate more sales, which it won't do, any DLC with more zombies or almost anything else will make a profit as well, with much less hassle.

 

Or because THEY really want it themselves (and all indications show they are against it or indifferent at max).

 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

16 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

It is not a bigger change than the new crafting mechanic and almost all of it can be done in XML. It would not be your usual run-of-the-mill more-maps-NPCs-quests DLC, sure, but quite possible.

 

But that wasn't why I mentioned it. I wanted to show you topics that are actually popular (and still not popular enough to change the developers minds).

 

I can think of only two reasons why they would consider it:

 

Because lots and lots of players demand it and it would therefore generate more sales, which it won't do, any DLC with more zombies or almost anything else will make a profit as well, with much less hassle.

 

Or because THEY really want it themselves (and all indications show they are against it or indifferent at max).

 

 

1. Honestly - I think Change LBD into "perk skill" was bigger change  because it change gameplay a lot. So this mean not only change in XML but change in balance etc. some things will be effective some more etc.

2. Yeah probably there is no chance for dlc in Conan or ARK style

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

1. Honestly - I think Change LBD into "perk skill" was bigger change  because it change gameplay a lot. So this mean not only change in XML but change in balance etc. some things will be effective some more etc.

 

Sure that needs balancing, just like the magazine change does. But they already had LBD once so they already have some knowledge about sensible values there.

 

[Matt115]

24 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Sure that needs balancing, just like the magazine change does. But they already had LBD once so they already have some knowledge about sensible values there.

 

This will need time for sure

[Code6]

I am nearly positive that I posted a comment about the behavior of writeable storage boxes yesterday and now I cannot find it.  Did it get moderated/deleted or am I going crazy?  (I just want to understand before I repost it.)

[Trankitas]

1 minute ago, Code6 said:

I am nearly positive that I posted a comment about the behavior of writeable storage boxes yesterday and now I cannot find it.  Did it get moderated/deleted or am I going crazy?  (I just want to understand before I repost it.)

I think it's because this is not a bug report thread, maybe you could try reposting it on one.

[ArmoredStone]

36 minutes ago, Roland said:

We try to extend a broad reach across as many demographics as we can so that the game has wide appeal

From my experience and view on social media, you guys ignore player feedback and popular mods, and just do whatever you want. You guys have been on Steam for 9 years and are STILL in Alpha. Don't you guys think you should have the basic gameplay framework figured out by now and be just adding content?

7 minutes ago, Roland said:

I support it because I’m okay playing the game at a lower ability level for a time and then after spending the points seeing that ability raised. I never feel like I can’t play the game until after I’ve perked up a particular skill. It isn’t the game making you feel required to wait. It’s something inside of you that compels you to do so. 

 

Not all people. I like the perks that allow you to get more. To me, it feels that I’m more skilled and can get more out of my harvesting than an unskilled character. I’m not just faster but I actually have better success. But I never feel like I can’t start playing using my base abilities. 

 

 I wouldn’t  call those people friends. In our group everyone opens their own containers. Whoever shares the quest gets to open the treasure room loot and everyone loots cupboards and containers along the way. Opening a container is one of the most rewarding parts of the game and to try to optimize gameplay by denying that fun action to anyone of a lower loot gamestage is outrageous. So our group might take an extra week or two of game time to get all the best loot. So what? Why is it so important to your group that you get all the best stuff as quickly as possible to the point that someone gets yelled at for daring to open a container and get a yellow pipe machine gun instead of a blue pipe machine gun or even a green AK47?  Eventually, yes, that person will be pulling AK 47s and in the meantime can play with the gun they found or sell it to get something else. All this is, is choosing min/max crap over friendship. And the really sad part is that as a team, together, you are way more than a match for the difficulty curve of the game even with suboptimal weapons so all the bullying over who opens a container is just pointless. Nobody is going to fail at survival by letting anyone open whatever box they want. 
 

As to the new system. The opposite is actually the case. You have the best chance of getting the loot you need by opening a box yourself since you are the one who perked into your own skills. Even Mister Top Lootstage isn’t going to be able to supply you with the mags you want better than you can so hopefully this will change the meta somewhat so that people are more likely to open their own boxes instead of having a designated looter. 

Have you guys ever actually done polls for your community (the ones that give you your paychecks) to understand what the majority of people want? Or do you just have a "flavor of the week" you guys push on everyone, like it or not?

[Code6]

8 minutes ago, Roland said:

I moved it to the Alpha 20.5 thread where it should have been posted. The A21 thread is not for posting bugs. Better yet would be for you to post in the bug report forum. 

 

Thanks for letting me know that it was moved and why.

I wasn't even sure if it was bug.  I assumed it was the intended behavior.  I was hoping that bringing attention to it might get it changed for A21 as it is too late for A20.
I see many posts here that are wishes for the next version.

[Roland]

30 minutes ago, Code6 said:

 

Thanks for letting me know that it was moved and why.

I wasn't even sure if it was bug.  I assumed it was the intended behavior.  I was hoping that bringing attention to it might get it changed for A21 as it is too late for A20.
I see many posts here that are wishes for the next version.

No problem. Even if you aren’t sure something is a bug, post it in the bug forum that it doesn’t behave like you think it should. The QA guys will let you know it is intended and then you can come here and post a request that it be changed for A21. If it is a bug it will get a ticket to be fixed. You’re right that people often post here what they hope to be changed in A21 and it often gets lost in the chatter or moved to the overflow thread after kicking off a big off topic conversation. Since you are currently playing A20.5 Input it there and it isn’t necessarily “too late”. There could still be an A20.6. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[ArmoredStone]

You guys are aware that after the release of A20 back in December, you've lost nearly 50% of your players, correct? Has anyone considered...ya know...asking the community what THEY want in the game? I understand it's your game, but WE are the ones that have been giving you your paychecks. Don't you think it would be wise to appeal to your community so we can continue recommending the game to people? How hard would it have been to make a poll on twitter asking your community if they even would want a change like this?

[beerfly]

2 minutes ago, ArmoredStone said:

I understand it's your game, but WE are the ones that have been giving you your paychecks. 

Find some other slaves, sir. 

[Laz Man]

29 minutes ago, ArmoredStone said:

You guys are aware that after the release of A20 back in December, you've lost nearly 50% of your players, correct? Has anyone considered...ya know...asking the community what THEY want in the game? I understand it's your game, but WE are the ones that have been giving you your paychecks. Don't you think it would be wise to appeal to your community so we can continue recommending the game to people? How hard would it have been to make a poll on twitter asking your community if they even would want a change like this?

 

Try increasing your sampling further back.  The drop is not as large as you perceive.  

 

Edit: Also, the change to how crafting work's is not necessarily a new feature.  I look at it as a much needed improvement to the existing crafting system which was largely insignificant among other systems in the game.  LBD has long been a dead horse so there is no point in appealing for it to come back.  It is also worth pointing out that other long awaited features were not neglected due to this change in the crafting system.  All of which will be shared in good time.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Matt115]

31 minutes ago, ArmoredStone said:

You guys are aware that after the release of A20 back in December, you've lost nearly 50% of your players, correct? Has anyone considered...ya know...asking the community what THEY want in the game? I understand it's your game, but WE are the ones that have been giving you your paychecks. Don't you think it would be wise to appeal to your community so we can continue recommending the game to people? How hard would it have been to make a poll on twitter asking your community if they even would want a change like this?

do you know that.... this game don't have dlc or microtransations so.... no matter if play 5 k or 50 k in this same time this change nothing because only count bought copies? :

6 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

Try increasing your sampling further back.  The drop is not as large as you perceive.  

Yep even i think this game is even more popular. Even more that vanguard

[Star69]

How many game developers poll their community for input on how to make/improve their games? EA? Bethesda? Come on, be realistic. TFP are developing THEIR game not yours. If you want your game, become a developer. IIRC that’s exactly how Madmole got his start….played Skyrim, wrote mods for Skyrim to make it better in his eyes then became a developer.

[ArmoredStone]

Apparently I'm an idiot for thinking that paying developers for a game should imply an obligation on the developers to build the game based off of feedback from the buyers. If you guys truly think that is wrong, then why was there a massive uproar about No Man's Sky? And why did the developers take time that they didn't need to to develop the game to the communities' liking? Those developers made the game they made. They had no contractual obligation to fix anything. That's an example of developers that actually care about their community, and deliver on a product.

Also, the argument about DLC not existing is nullified by the fact that these devs still have the game in ALPHA, with a ton of broken promises of content they told us would be coming. If they lied about adding content, and started selling other content, that could arguably be grounds for legal action.

But hey, if you guys like paying for a game with developers that don't care about your opinion, more power to ya

Can't wait for the white knights to respond to this xD

Edited May 21, 2022 by ArmoredStone (see edit history)

[ArmoredStone]

1 hour ago, beerfly said:

Find some other slaves, sir. 

These are some EXTREMELY well paid "slaves", sir.

[Javabean867]

12 minutes ago, ArmoredStone said:

Apparently I'm an idiot for thinking that paying developers for a game should imply an obligation on the developers to build the game based off of feedback from the buyers. If you guys truly think that is wrong, then why was there a massive uproar about No Man's Sky? And why did the developers take time that they didn't need to to develop the game to the communities' liking? Those developers made the game they made. They had no contractual obligation to fix anything. That's an example of developers that actually care about their community, and deliver on a product.

Also, the argument about DLC not existing is nullified by the fact that these devs still have the game in ALPHA, with a ton of broken promises of content they told us would be coming. If they lied about adding content, and started selling other content, that could arguably be grounds for legal action.

But hey, if you guys like paying for a game with developers that don't care about your opinion, more power to ya

Can't wait for the white knights to respond to this xD

White knight here???

 

You aren't an idiot or wrong to have your opinion on these things.  You communicated them poorly though.  People reacted to your posts as they did.  They are not wrong to disagree with your opinion.

 

Aldo, no man sky is a completely different situation.   They made promises on how the end product was going to be, and released a buggy mess.  What is similar is that both developers love their game and continued to work to make it better.

[Trankitas]

17 minutes ago, ArmoredStone said:

Apparently I'm an idiot for thinking that paying developers for a game should imply an obligation on the developers to build the game based off of feedback from the buyers. If you guys truly think that is wrong, then why was there a massive uproar about No Man's Sky? And why did the developers take time that they didn't need to to develop the game to the communities' liking? Those developers made the game they made. They had no contractual obligation to fix anything. That's an example of developers that actually care about their community, and deliver on a product.

Also, the argument about DLC not existing is nullified by the fact that these devs still have the game in ALPHA, with a ton of broken promises of content they told us would be coming. If they lied about adding content, and started selling other content, that could arguably be grounds for legal action.

But hey, if you guys like paying for a game with developers that don't care about your opinion, more power to ya

Can't wait for the white knights to respond to this xD

You don't get how the world works brother...

[Mahnogard]

2 minutes ago, ArmoredStone said:

If you guys truly think that is wrong, then why was there a massive uproar about No Man's Sky?

No Man's Sky said it would have X and heavily implied Y and Z. It released... differently. And I say that as someone who has loved NMS since release, because I didn't care about MP, which was one of the biggest complaints. But yeah, there was a massive uproar because of people expecting something other than what they got, in part due to features being missing or misrepresented, and in smaller part due to hype disease. And part of the reason for the way NMS released was due to Sony, but over here we don't have a publisher overlord breathing down the dev's necks. They get to take the time they need to make the game they want to make.

 

9 minutes ago, ArmoredStone said:

But hey, if you guys like paying for a game with developers that don't care about your opinion, more power to ya

If they didn't care, this thread that you're posting in wouldn't exist, or it would be locked to comments. But just like in normal life, people can care about someone's opinion and still choose to do what they want to.

 

It takes a certain kind of gamer to be okay with this type of development cycle. I get that. Not everyone will be thrilled, and I don't blame you or anyone else who wants it otherwise. But people who disagree with you aren't wrong, they just aren't you. Things have changed and evolved over the many years. I want the devs to make the game they are passionate about, because if they don't, I think we all lose. A development journey that goes on this long, no matter how you feel about it, doesn't just run on money, it runs on love for the work. If it didn't, they'd be gone by now and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Also, I'm not a knight. I am a queen. It says so on my base.

[ArmoredStone]

6 minutes ago, Trankitas said:

You don't get how the world works brother...

If you enjoy paying for your opinion to be ignored, there are better ways to do it.

[Trankitas]

2 minutes ago, ArmoredStone said:

If you enjoy paying for your opinion to be ignored, there are better ways to do it.

First of all, my opinions were accordingly received since my n°1 post.
Second: if you pay for a burger and you eat it very slow, you can't go one day later and ask the chef to change it, you already paid for the game and played it.
Third: I've seen a lot of egocentric forum members come and go, who think their opinion is the absolute truth and claim to speak "what the people want", they usually don't last very long.