Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[FinkPloyd]

With the change to the number of mod slots there is now an inconsistency with some items and the number of mod slots (ie drones, turrets and batons are different to most other series).

 

Would it be possible to add the number of mod slots to the items description / stats?

[4sheetzngeegles]

@meilodasreh

I read about your situation using the bow. This is my primary distance weapon,
in any game that has them, secondarily the throw-able stone spear, the iron/steel
I only allow to thrust.

 

Using it so often, I have become accustomed to the ingame aiming, meaning my average
engagement distance is is approx. 30 meters crouched for zombies and the distance limit
for the green bunnies and chickens. As a test try this to see if it helps.

 

First do the focus aim or zoom, but pull and instantly release the trigger like you
you would do multiple quick shots on a pistol. You don't actually have to hold the button
to draw.

 

The second is to hold the draw button for a bit longer than usual. One of the things I
observed in my playthroughs. There seems to be an actual timing sweet spot. I don't know
if this is coded, but, the accuracy circle mentioned before, when I play seems to act as a
progressiive or slow motion zoom. What I mean is, the visual zoom is not at the same
pace as the projectile controller zoom. The way it works for me is the invisible accuracy
sphere, is like a large circle that regresses to a smaller one.

 

Also I aim to the left of the target, example to hit the left eye, I aim at the right cheek
area. The yaw pitch recoil seem to go up and right.

 

This works for me, try and see if it works for you. Hope it helps.

 

4SheetZ

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

The base progression is the same for all players.

I said nothing about game progression on its own.  I said that crafting does not in any way keep up with gamestage progression for me.  And if you read the forum, you'll see a variety of experiences.  For some people, crafting outpaces gamestage.  For others, it's far lower than gamestage.  And for others, it's just about right.  There are many factors at play there, including RNG, perks chosen (including how many different perks are chosen as too many will reduce the rate at which certain perked magazines drop), how much looting you do compared to other gamestage progression like mining, and more.

3 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

I only see a crosshair, there is no additional circle shown to me.

Anyway, I know what you mean, and yes I know that, but I still think it happens a bit too regularly that I miss a zombie that is only a few blocks away, because of the "anywhere within the crosshair" thingy.

And that's distances where the zombie head more or less fills up the entire "circle", and arrow drop hasn't really started to take effect.

Handguns feel much more accurate, but no noticeable difference considering the crosshair.

Yes maybe I'm just a bad aim, but I think it would be no harm if bow aiming would be slightly adjusted towards better accuracy...well except for the zombies I guess 😀

I don't use bows so maybe they don't show the circle the way firearms do.  But they work the same way.  The circle will reduce the longer you aim until it reaches the minimum radius.  That usually only takes a couple seconds, though I haven't actually timed it and am just estimating.  Even then, the area where a shot can go is larger than the crosshair itself and it is placed randomly anywhere within that circle.  When aiming at a head that is more than around a few meters away, this circle area is going to be larger than the head, allowing for shots to occasionally go wide.  The further they are, the greater the chance of that.  And if you shoot immediately instead of aiming, you have an even larger circle so will have a greater chance of missing.  Now, there is what seems to be a bug where shooting a zombie that is right next to you might not hit them and it is assumed by players that it's caused by the weapon being past the collision hitbox, though I don't know if that's been confirmed.  The basic wooden bow will have a far greater chance to miss than a better bow, which makes sense.  I don't know if arrow type matters as well but I don't believe so.

 

As far as difference between guns and bows, I think the only difference is no drop for guns.  That and there is of course different effective ranges and maximum ranges.  So I don't know what might cause these misses for you.

[Andy Red]

7 hours ago, Kalex said:

Anybody else having multiple trader waypoints added to your map that you cannot delete? Every time a shared quest gets removed for whatever reason other than successful completion (logout, quest activated while you were out of range, death) on our dedi, the quest gets removed but the waypoint to the trader it added does not get removed from the waypoint list and you cannot manually delete it.

For A21, when you get into distance of a trader, their waypoint is now automatically added to your map/waypoints. Is this what you mean?

"Traders will automatically add custom waypoints to the map. NPCInfo modified to include a localizationID field that is used to fetch the localized name of the trader to label their waypoint (configured via npc.xml)"

[RipClaw]

4 hours ago, Riamus said:

I said nothing about game progression on its own.  I said that crafting does not in any way keep up with gamestage progression for me.  And if you read the forum, you'll see a variety of experiences.  For some people, crafting outpaces gamestage.  For others, it's far lower than gamestage.  And for others, it's just about right.

I made a comparison between JaWoodle and IzPrebuilt.

 

JaWoodle on day 26 can build a minibike, a chem station, a Q3 steel spear and a Q4 sniper rifle. IzPrebuilt also on day 26 can build a Gyrocopter, a Crucible, a Q5 Steel Club and a Q5 Auto Shotgun.

 

Both play on 60 minute days and both live in the desert. The differences are that IzPrebuilt also loots at night because he plays on Insane Nightmare anyway and he knows exactly which perks to take to most effectively get the magazines he wants.

 

That's how different progress in crafting can be.

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Rince]

40 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

I made a comparison between JaWoodle and IzPrebuild.

 

JaWoodle on day 26 can build a minibike, a chem station, a Q3 steel spear and a Q4 sniper rifle. IzPrebuild also on day 26 can build a Gyrocopter, a Crucible, a Q5 Steel Club and a Q5 Auto Shotgun.

 

Both play on 60 minute days and both live in the desert. The differences are that IzPrebuild also loots at night because he plays on Insane Nightmare anyway and he knows exactly which perks to take to most effectively get the magazines he wants.

 

That's how different progress in crafting can be.

 

JaWoodle has the spear because he bought on the trader.

 

My experience in two games is much more close to JaWoodle than IzPrebuild.

 

But I think than in my first game it took me longer to get the sniper rifle.

 

I'm enjoying the slower pace. Yeah, sometimes a wild trader reward or air-drop loot kinda shakes everything with OPness. But it's not than common.

[RipClaw]

6 minutes ago, Rince said:

JaWoodle has the spear because he bought on the trader.

Yes but as far as I know he unlocked Q3 steel spears in one of the last videos. So he has closed that gap.

 

7 minutes ago, Rince said:

My experience in two games is much more close to JaWoodle than IzPrebuild.

IzPrebuilt rushed through the magazines in 3-4 videos like a maniac. He has made extreme progress, especially with the vehicles. First he was able to build the motorbike, one day later the 4x4 truck and another day later the gyrocopter.

 

[gpcstargate]

9 hours ago, Roland said:

Personally, I’d love for an option to turn off the trader compound protection which would enable zombies to punch through the walls. So the fact that they can occasionally pile up and pyramid over the walls is great. I don’t view it as a bug or something that shouldn’t happen. I wish the pyramid effect was more intentional and factored into their pathing rather than just being random and happenstance. 

 

GOOD, I don't mind them climbing the walls ... it keeps it interesting ... Just wasn't sure if you all knew or not. 

 

Only other thing; does anyone know if we will be getting the missing shapes anytime soon? 

Thank You and Have a Great Week. 🤗

[Yopo]

12 hours ago, Riamus said:

Arrows have a chance to hit anywhere within the circle shown, regardless where the crosshair is pointed.  Add in drop as well and it's possible to miss even if you're a good aim.

 

I don't think there was any real change there.  DV is higher tier than Magnum and should do more damage regardless of changes to fire rate or ammo capacity.  If they weren't the same type of weapon and were the same tier, then I'd probably agree.  But since they are the same type of weapon (handgun) and different tiers, the base damage should be higher.

Yeah, I've seen them climb the walls at Jen's as well.  Even with only 1 zombie, they seem to get onto the angled cement along the walls and jump up onto the walls.  They really shouldn't be able to do that.

While I do understand that, I don’t really agree with it myself.  From what I remeber I think it was that way I had described in older alphas but I’m not 100% positive on that, nor do I feel like going back to check on it at this time. Personally I’ve always favored the magnum over the dv,  to me the magnum is just the Superior gun. Probably not very many ppl like the magnum as much as I do. Suppose I’ll have to either find someone to make a mod for me that swaps the two around, I highly doubt anyone will do it themselves or dreadfully learn how to make a mod myself. 

[meilodasreh]

@4sheetzngeegles & @Riamus

Thx for your kind replies.

I will try your ideas, but in general I just suggest that it might be taken into consideration that bow aiming should be slightly more accurate in the future.

 

I am talking about situations like this:

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxm55_c6t85SimsmasL9gcKLtq1IJAO-Xq

 

No need to tell me that his aim is a bit off, especially for the second shot.

But this actually is what I'm talking about. These "just a little bit off" shots with a bow seem be to much more likely to result in an actual miss then with guns.

 

And with guns (especially the lower tier ones), the aim should be just as "wobbly" (at least by assuming that the laser pointer "shaking" always is the actual spot where the bullet would hit)

I

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[meganoth]

23 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

@4sheetzngeegles & @Riamus

Thx for your kind replies.

I will try your ideas, but in general I just suggest that it might be taken into consideration that bow aiming should be slightly more accurate in the future.

 

I am talking about situations like this:

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxm55_c6t85SimsmasL9gcKLtq1IJAO-Xq

 

No need to tell me that his aim is a bit off, especially for the second shot.

I'm just saying that i can't remember having these "close miss" situations when using a gun, although the aim should be just as "wobbly" (at least by assuming that the laser pointer "shaking" always is the actual spot where the bullet would hit)

 

 

1) You see the 4 small lines, 2 horizontal and 2 vertical, the crosshair ? The innermost points of those lines form a circle and that is supposed to be the target circle in which the shot lands.

 

2) In the video the shooter does not really aim and just shoots from the hip, so to speak, using the second-lowest quality of stone-era bows. I am not surprised that he doesn't hit much. I would advise to aim for the body with hip-firing.

 

3) I single-stepped through the video. Even the first shot shows the head being more outside than inside the circle, with the center of the circle outside the head. Since the center is more likely to be the hit location than anything on the rim it means the chance to hit was fairly low, I would guess not even 10%. If he had aimed more carefully and tried to anticipate the zombies head movement instead of trying to shoot fast he would have hit a lot better. I know because I tend to aim long and I do hit them in the head quite often at that distance.

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Uncle Al]

17 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

@4sheetzngeegles & @Riamus

Thx for your kind replies.

I will try your ideas, but in general I just suggest that it might be taken into consideration that bow aiming should be slightly more accurate in the future.

 

I am talking about situations like this:

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxm55_c6t85SimsmasL9gcKLtq1IJAO-Xq

 

No need to tell me that his aim is a bit off, especially for the second shot.

But this actually is what I'm talking about. These "just a little bit off" shots with a bow seem be to much more likely to result in an actual miss then with guns.

 

And with guns (especially the lower tier ones), the aim should be just as "wobbly" (at least by assuming that the laser pointer "shaking" always is the actual spot where the bullet would hit)

I

 

 

The big difference between bows and guns is velocity. Guns hit when the trigger is pulled, so shots will hit so long as every single bit of the cross hair is filled with target.  With bows that's not necessarily true as there's a delay between firing and hitting the target. Along with projectile drop, you have to lead moving targets with a bow but you don't have to with guns, and head shots are distinctly more risky as the zed may twich their head out the way of the shot in the time it takes the projectile to hit the target.

 

I notice a polymer string mod, especially on a compound crossbow, makes the bow behave far more like a gun, at least at short ranges, because your projectile velocity is through the roof and the hit delay is almost irrelevant. With lesser bows and no polymer string, bow accuracy is definitely inferior because shot velocity is a real problem.

 

Your video link actually shows this really well. Look at how the zombie's head is positioned not when he releases the shot, but when you hear the clunk of the arrow hitting the wall a moment later. It becomes unsurprising he's missing all his shots as at impact time there's often barely a wafer of target inside the crosshairs.

[Kalex]

5 hours ago, Andy Red said:

For A21, when you get into distance of a trader, their waypoint is now automatically added to your map/waypoints. Is this what you mean?

"Traders will automatically add custom waypoints to the map. NPCInfo modified to include a localizationID field that is used to fetch the localized name of the trader to label their waypoint (configured via npc.xml)"

 

No, it isn't what I am referring to. For example, on my waypoint list there are 5 entries for the same Trader Jen - the one auto-added when I first approached the trader and the other 4 from shared quests that for various reasons did not get completed and got removed from the quest log. And I cannot delete the extraneous 4 entries. No matter which of the 5 I try to delete, I get the na-na-you-cant-do-that sound and the waypoint is not removed,

[Riamus]

13 hours ago, Roland said:

Personally, I’d love for an option to turn off the trader compound protection which would enable zombies to punch through the walls. So the fact that they can occasionally pile up and pyramid over the walls is great. I don’t view it as a bug or something that shouldn’t happen. I wish the pyramid effect was more intentional and factored into their pathing rather than just being random and happenstance. 

If it was only that they could pile up to get in, it would make some sense but when it's a single zombie with no others zombies around and you see it on top of Jen's fence before eventually dropping inside, it seems like a problem.

[meilodasreh]

1 hour ago, Uncle Al said:

velocity [...] delay between firing and hitting [...] projectile drop [...] polymer string mod [...] bow accuracy is definitely inferior because shot velocity is a real problem[...]

 

Why yes! I know all that...as I said before. No need to explain or convince me of that "realistic truth" behind it. 🙂

 

If you take the explanation to this "scientific" level, then I could do the same and say that a lower tier handgun that was literally macgyvered out of duct tape and some uncalibrated random plumbing pipe should be much more inaccurate than a handcrafted bow and arrow.

 

Man the only thing I was saying all the time is that I wish bows would be slightly more accurate in this game.

 

And now I find myself in the middle of a weapon specialist discussion. Next topic: the ballistic coefficient  😄

 

[Makaroni95]

When A22 developer discussion starts? I 😁 

[hiemfire]

16 hours ago, Riamus said:

Yeah, I've seen them climb the walls at Jen's as well.  Even with only 1 zombie, they seem to get onto the angled cement along the walls and jump up onto the walls.  They really shouldn't be able to do that.

Didn't Madmole say awhile back that player's should never feel safe in game? Bug or not, unless that philosophy has changed, I don't see them fixing it.

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

tried to anticipate the zombies head movement

Anticipating the movement of anything that can do lightspeed burpies at random is a laughable concept.

[meilodasreh]

31 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Anticipating the movement of anything that can do lightspeed burpies at random is a laughable concept.

 

Well anticipating hip movement is actually quite easy...or at least used to be...in the good old times 🙃

 

 

...damn that one never gets old

[meilodasreh]

17 hours ago, Riamus said:

Yeah, I've seen them climb the walls at Jen's as well.  Even with only 1 zombie, they seem to get onto the angled cement along the walls and jump up onto the walls.  They really shouldn't be able to do that.

If you all don't like them do that, then I would suggest you get your tasty lil survivor a&%es out of their sight, instead of standing right on the other side of the fence and wonder why they try so hard to climb over.

Jen would appreciate it too, because she also doesn't like that some dips"§$ts keep luring the undead into her compound.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, hiemfire said:

Anticipating the movement of anything that can do lightspeed burpies at random is a laughable concept.

 

If I don't need 100% success rate I can live with some burpies whatever those may be.

 

I may be a bit too optimistic about the predicting part, but I'd say I would hit that zombie head in the video pretty often by just by waiting for his attack animation and shooting at the exact moment he has fully moved his arm back and wants to start his forward swing.

 

[meilodasreh]

if you would make a video about this, I will happily feel summoned to single-step through it and tell you exactly why you missed when it occurs.

Even if you explicitly told me before that there is no need to do so. 😜

...man you guys are killing me. 😆

[hiemfire]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

If I don't need 100% success rate I can live with some burpies whatever those may be.

 

From standing drop to the ground, do a push up, then hop up to full standing. Usually done with rapid jogging in place between cycles.

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

If you all don't like them do that, then I would suggest you get your tasty lil survivor a&%es out of their sight, instead of standing right on the other side of the fence and wonder why they try so hard to climb over.

Jen would appreciate it too, because she also doesn't like that some dips"§$ts keep luring the undead into her compound.

I wasn't even at the trader.  I saw it while probably 100-150 meters away (estimating) and hadn't been at the trader since the day before (in-game).  I see zombies massing around the traders often when I drive up to them even when I haven't been in the area for quite a while.  So far, I have only seen the zombie getting over the wall that one time and again, it was just one with no others around (at least on that side of the trader) and all trader doors closed.  The zombie was definitely not at all interested in finding me.

[Star69]

8 hours ago, Kalex said:

 

No, it isn't what I am referring to. For example, on my waypoint list there are 5 entries for the same Trader Jen - the one auto-added when I first approached the trader and the other 4 from shared quests that for various reasons did not get completed and got removed from the quest log. And I cannot delete the extraneous 4 entries. No matter which of the 5 I try to delete, I get the na-na-you-cant-do-that sound and the waypoint is not removed,

I get what you're saying now with this second post. It sure sounds like a bug to me. Cancelling or finishing a quest should remove those waypoints. In long games for people who like to do quests, your waypoints list could get almost unmanageable.

[meilodasreh]

@Riamus ah ok my reference still was that scene where they were obviously after that guy presenting himself right on the other side of the fence.

 

So your example would be more like a weird spawning thing? I mean, if you are far away there are no zombies, they start to spawn in the area you move into.

And in your case they then seem to spawn in places they get stuck and get into "destroy area" mode or something.

I have experienced it myself that the zombies seem to be a bit more likely to get stuck somewhere, preferably in rooms, even in open doors, and just keep hitting the surrounding blocks instead of moving the obvious way.

Seems that pathing needs a little polish in A21.

Edited July 18, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)