Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, NekoPawtato said:

Is anyone else swimming in old sham sandwiches? I always end up having stacks and stacks of them now in A21 to the point that I could live off of them for quite some time with enough vitamins.

Yeah, I would never need to make so many antibiotics for the entire game from the number of sham sandwiches I've found.  The loot rate needs a severe reduction for these.

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Old Crow said:

 

Oh, I get that. Realism, but only if it's detrimental to the player!

There are two groups of players I've identified : one that doesn't want game mechanics to go against the player unless they're "fun", and the other that accepts the "unfun" part as in line with the survival game genre. I'm part of the latter. I'm not searching for realism, though... it's a game about zombies, what the heck!

 

I like, however, when you're challenged with worse odds, and you have to adapt to specific rules (or game features) that are there to hamper you on your survival.

[fyiiamaheavy]

Is the fun pimps aware of the cheaty block of scaffolding ladder. Cops cant shoot though it and it makes horde night not a challenge i would sugguest they lowest the hp of that block since its just a ladder and people are cheating with it

[Old Crow]

3 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

There are two groups of players I've identified : one that doesn't want game mechanics to go against the player unless they're "fun", and the other that accepts the "unfun" part as in line with the survival game genre. I'm part of the latter. I'm not searching for realism, though... it's a game about zombies, what the heck!

 

I like, however, when you're challenged with worse odds, and you have to adapt to specific rules (or game features) that are there to hamper you on your survival.

 

Oh I get that that it's part of a survival game to have to survive. I just dislike that TFP tout realism only in cases where it's something that goes severely hampers or hurts the player, but if something unrealistic is against the player, their excuse is "it's a zombie game, it's not supposed to be realistic!"

[Syphon583]

3 hours ago, fyiiamaheavy said:

Is the fun pimps aware of the cheaty block of scaffolding ladder. Cops cant shoot though it and it makes horde night not a challenge i would sugguest they lowest the hp of that block since its just a ladder and people are cheating with it

I think the better solution would be to just allow the cop to vomit through it. If the player can, the cop should be able to. Honestly it seems more like an oversight than a design decision. If it is by design, I'd be very curious as to the thought process there.

[meganoth]

 

2 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

Oh I get that that it's part of a survival game to have to survive. I just dislike that TFP tout realism only in cases where it's something that goes severely hampers or hurts the player, but if something unrealistic is against the player, their excuse is "it's a zombie game, it's not supposed to be realistic!"

 

Since when is Jost Amann part of TFP? Or can you quote a dev from TFP saying it is because of realism?

 

 

If your's was just meant as a general comment, the general answer is that realism is lower in priority than "fun gameplay". Whenever "fun gameplay doesn't force a decision, realism might be one of the reasons for something.

 

I think the shams are just a sign of the balancing effort being far from finished at the moment.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[NBornkilla]

6 hours ago, fyiiamaheavy said:

Is the fun pimps aware of the cheaty block of scaffolding ladder. Cops cant shoot though it and it makes horde night not a challenge i would sugguest they lowest the hp of that block since its just a ladder and people are cheating with it

why dont you play your game and let other play how they feel ? 

[spacepiggio]

2 Weeks now...1 Update...We getting Stable soon...release the real...Stable...Kraken

[LewZephyr]

5 minutes ago, spacepiggio said:

2 Weeks now...1 Update...We getting Stable soon...release the real...Stable...Kraken

Last commit to testing was 15 hours ago.

 

[Lostyouthkhat]

21 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

Yes, screamer cycles do go pretty bad sometimes (well almost every time to be honest 😄)

But as far as I know there were no changes on how "heat generation" works in A21 compared to A20.

So this could have happened to you in A20 in the exact same way more or less.

 

What might be different is:

Was it an infestation quest? Having 25 zombies spawned in and being after you at the same time seems a lot,

and maybe it wasn't really the normal amount for a "dev intended way" to clear a poi. 🤔

Did you run through a whole area and set off several spawn points at the same time? I mean of course if you go bright and loud you draw lots of unwanted attention.

And in addition to this, with the new magazine system, you might not have been that well eqipped considering your weaponry as you are used to from former alphas.

Which means you have to fire more rounds per kill, meaning generating even more heat.

 

One has to be careful in A21 not to fall for the fact: you still reach higher tier quests pretty fast, just by doing a certain number of quests, like in a20,

but your progression in armament/equipment is dampened by the new system. So you are not as prepared for the higher tier stuff as you might remember and expect from A20.

Well that's part of how they increased difficulty.

 

So what I mean in short: Ask yourself if you really were well prepared for what you started.

And then again, screamer cycles suck big time.

 

Yea it was a normal Tier 5 poi (new prison). Maybe i am more used to the higher skyscrappers where zombies from the ground cant get to you anyways, since there is no direct way. 25 Zombies was probably exagerated but there were a lot of zombies spawning after every corner haha. The problem is, that the prison is nearly the whole time either on the ground or the first level, so whereever you are, the screamers start attacking the outter walls and scream the entire time. At the end me and my friend had to shoot at least 150 zombies (inlcuding ferals and green ones), just because of the screamers. This was a huge waste of bullets sadly and made the end loot (camera package with 5x security cameras and speakers and so on) not worth it at all. Did you went into the new prison by yourself already?

[meilodasreh]

nope, only catched a glimpse of it during what was shown as an example for an infestation quest.

You maybe right about the disadvantage of a "flat" design of the poi.

But still, heat generation is counted up within a chunk (independent from height as far as I know),

so you would trigger a screamer during the clearance of a big poi anyway, regardless of its geometry, when you go loud with your guns.

And the fact that the zeds can't reach you doesn't really matter in the end.

Because a screamer cycle, once it started to go bad, will kill! Maybe not you when you're unreachable high above, but your framerate, making it unplayable either way 😄

 

Maybe try a more silent approach at least at first, using bow&arrow or silenced guns?

 

And of course avoid resource harvesting in the area before you hit the quest marker.

E.g. when you find a nice ore deposit right next to the poi and collect a stack of iron, or maybe even "double dipped" all the nice cars in the parking lot,

you are likely to trigger a screamer relatively early during your run, because you raised the count pretty good already.

 

[Boop]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:26 AM, NekoPawtato said:

For me gas is starting to be a bottleneck in my vehicle progression

I managed to buy the motorcycle parts and assemble it, but since gas is so scarce from vehicles I'm having a hard time just keeping it topped off.

Been wrenching any vehicles I see, but the more I wrench the farther out I'm going to have to go for gas.

And you can't make gas until you have a chemistry station, which needs 50 books 😕 + finding a beaker, or get really lucky with trader

 

I wouldn't mind if gas amounts from wrenching vehicles were increased, or do something like gunpowder and let us make gas without a chem station, but less efficient (maybe campfire + beaker if it makes sense?)

I think this part is an issue. A lot of the stack versions of things one might want to use a chemistry station for are also locked behind magazines. Perhaps chemistry station should come way earlier in progression but the stack versions of things could be swapped for the things themselves? Would a) make chemistry station stuff available earlier for those who need it and b) would lock effects behind magazines as intended.

 

For instance, gunpowder stacks are unlocked by explosives tech tree. Switch out the gunpowder stack recipe for gunpowder recipe (so gunpowder is locked behind magazines). Do this for all the relevant things that can be made in the chemistry station (most notably gunpowder and gas but there are probably others I am missing). Next, move chemistry station unlock to much lower in workstation tree (say 25 or 30). Boom, now you can get gas earlier if you go workstation + grease monkey, or gunpowder earlier if you go explosives + workstations while still maintaining the spirit of the tech trees.

[spacepiggio]

1 hour ago, LewZephyr said:

Last commit to testing was 15 hours ago.

 

Never saw that just the current bug list...thanks...I think they'll drop 1 soon after seeing that

[Boop]

1 hour ago, Lostyouthkhat said:

Yea it was a normal Tier 5 poi (new prison). Maybe i am more used to the higher skyscrappers where zombies from the ground cant get to you anyways, since there is no direct way. 25 Zombies was probably exagerated but there were a lot of zombies spawning after every corner haha. The problem is, that the prison is nearly the whole time either on the ground or the first level, so whereever you are, the screamers start attacking the outter walls and scream the entire time. At the end me and my friend had to shoot at least 150 zombies (inlcuding ferals and green ones), just because of the screamers. This was a huge waste of bullets sadly and made the end loot (camera package with 5x security cameras and speakers and so on) not worth it at all. Did you went into the new prison by yourself already?

Speakers are never a waste.

Take all the sensors and all the speakers and install them in your friend's house when he's away. Next time a zombie appears he'll get a heart attack. Then you can take his stuff because he won't play with you any more.

[unholyjoe]

1 hour ago, LewZephyr said:

Last commit to testing was 15 hours ago.

 

testing_trunk has nothing to do with the experimental nor the public branch... testing trunk is the next alpha. testing_branch is the experimental internal testing.

 

sorry to burst the excitement bubble.

 

[spacepiggio]

27 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

testing_trunk has nothing to do with the experimental nor the public branch... testing trunk is the next alpha. testing_branch is the experimental internal testing.

 

sorry to burst the excitement bubble.

 

Wasn't even looking at that, I'm only going by recent activity compared to 12 days of testing & by reading the known issues. I've seen some builds go stable pretty quickly & I think this 1 will be stable soon, just a gut feeling on problems I've had playing & reading the list.

[meilodasreh]

@unholyjoethx for the info, was always wondering what's inside the trunk.

Now that I know it's the next alpha, I will always imagine that scene from pulp fiction when it comes to this theme.

You know these scene when he opens the case, and there's that strange glow and then "are we happy?" "Yes, we're happy" 😄

[unholyjoe]

but a lot of traveling people put their stinky clothes in the trunk too so may not always be something you want to open.. (quickly that is)...

 

[NekoPawtato]

I thought we were talking about like a tree trunk here 😅 isn't that why one is called trunk and the other branch?

[Roland]

No no no. Metaphorically it’s an elephant’s trunk and an office branch. Obviously. 
 

A tree is waaaay off. 
 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

Since when is Jost Amann part of TFP? Or can you quote a dev from TFP saying it is because of realism?

 

 

If your's was just meant as a general comment, the general answer is that realism is lower in priority than "fun gameplay". Whenever "fun gameplay doesn't force a decision, realism might be one of the reasons for something.

 

I think the shams are just a sign of the balancing effort being far from finished at the moment.

 

 

Good lord you have @%$#-poor reading comprehension skills. Where did I say I thought Jost was a member of The Fun Pimps staff? There's no quote, either. It's a noticeable trend. Deny it all you like, but it's there. And yes, it was a general comment, again, because of a noticeable trend.

[Roland]

3 hours ago, NBornkilla said:

why dont you play your game and let other play how they feel ? 

Despite agreeing with your philosophy of play and let play, if a block is bugged then the devs need to know. If just a few players are basing their entire horde night strategy by exploiting a bug then it is better to get it fixed sooner rather than later as that will impact fewer people. 
 

TFP has no problem with people using blocks in creative ways but if something is bugged then they usually want to fix it. 
 

Especially if fixing it will harm the players….lmao. 

[Vintorez]

Anybody else getting particularly bad crashes when ALT+Tab'ing out of the game? I know it's always a bit of a gamble tabbing out of games especially during any kind of loading, but with A21e I've had some real bad ones, like not just 7 Days crashing but every program completely locking up. Even had Windows Explorer crash when I absentmindedly tabbed during random world gen, making my wallpaper go full Solitaire Victory mode. Never had it even remotely close to this volatile before.

 

Obviously the solution is not to alt tab, but I think it's a problem when it even affects other open programs.

 

Using Windows 10 with RTX 2080 and i7-9700k, 16g RAM

[meilodasreh]

btw is there any special reason why there still is no "inventory slot lock" feature in vanilla?

Such a great qol feature should go hand in hand with all the already included "auto stash buttons" if you ask me.

 

[BFT2020]

14 hours ago, Riamus said:

Yeah, I would never need to make so many antibiotics for the entire game from the number of sham sandwiches I've found.  The loot rate needs a severe reduction for these.

 

I make them and sell them back to the traders.  Same thing with First Aid kits.

On 6/26/2023 at 2:18 PM, Riamus said:

Yes, that's likely why the reduced it.  However, I think it's been reduced too far.  Right now, it can be barely possible to scavenge enough gas to stay mobile just from cars and the occasional gas pump or barrel.  It takes so long to get a chem station that making your own gas is not an option for quite a while and leaves you short on gas even if you are only using gas for vehicles.  Right now, until you finally unlock the chem station, you aren't going to find enough gas to sustain a vehicle as well as any powered base defenses or lighting or anything else.  And without the fuel saver mod, just sustaining a vehicle is very difficult unless you do nothing bug scrap cars.

 

By the time I could make gas, I had half a box of engines, half of batteries, a couple hundred lights, a few hundred oil, etc. because I had to scrap so many just to have gas to drive around.  I think that's pushed gas to the extreme other end of the spectrum and somewhere between A20 and (current) A21 would be best.  I'm fine with needing to craft our own gas.  I like that we'd need to do so.  But the chem station just takes way too long to reach right now.  If you had an option to make gas (even at a lower efficiency) from the same time you can unlock crafting gas cans, then it wouldn't be a problem.

 

Would it surprise anyone if I was to say I like the new loot / harvest drop amounts?  😁

 

Some things I did when I purposely reduce gas in A20:

• Gas saver mod
• Not use the turbo function all the time
• Used my bicycle when I didn't really need to use a gas powered vehicle
• Less use of the auger / chainsaw
• Pushed towards battery banks as quickly as possible
  • One generator can recharge multiple battery banks with one engine so less gas used
  • Even if you are far from getting solar power, using the generator to recharge batteries was more efficient use of gas compared to using generators to power all your equipment