Please REMOVE the Strip Club POI

[pApA^LeGBa]

19 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

This is what the woke end of activism doesnt get.

 

Has nothing do with beeing woke or not. A lot people beeing against things like stripclubs and such are simply conservatives and/or religious. They already were against those things way before the people who created the word "woke" were born.

 

It´s the same category as fanboi or white knight. Mostly used as an insult wich shows a lack of discussion culture imo. Also usually shows a lack of arguments.

 

[12pack]

10 hours ago, Maharin said:

 

Knuckle rub sort of does that, but I agree... that an "I Agree" option would be a good thing.

 you see that as an "agree"?

dang.. i kinda felt it was more of a "shut up, you're being a baby"... (source: 7 younger siblings)

 

[Maharin]

1 minute ago, Sarakatunga said:

An unnecessary post there are more important things that have to be fixed.

 

More than one thing can be worked on at a time and this is hardly the worst offender of "unnecessary posts".  Take most of my posts as Exhibit A.

 

The biggest mistakes the OP made are assuming their opinion is matched by all women and that they have any say about what women think to begin with.  He (I'm assuming at this point the OP is a he) is an armchair warrior in a battle that should not extend into the unreality of 7DTD.  I'm in a family with strong women and they much prefer to talk for themselves.

 

 

[Sarakatunga]

by the way the zombieStandardStripper was removed for such a case ?. Did they delete the model? by the way, I didn't care. But my two sisters who are fans of this game complained.

[Maharin]

Just now, Sarakatunga said:

by the way the zombieStandardStripper was removed for such a case ?. Did they delete the model? by the way, I didn't care. But my two sisters who are fans of this game complained.

 

For clarification, did they complain of the removal or complain it was there in the first place?

[Sarakatunga]

Just now, Maharin said:

 

For clarification, did they complain of the removal or complain it was there in the first place?

they complained that it was removed.

[Kyonshi]

38 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Has nothing do with beeing woke or not. A lot people beeing against things like stripclubs and such are simply conservatives and/or religious. They already were against those things way before the people who created the word "woke" were born.

 

It´s the same category as fanboi or white knight. Mostly used as an insult wich shows a lack of discussion culture imo. Also usually shows a lack of arguments.

 

Although yes, conservatives and fundamentalist, religious people are far from being supportive of strip clubs, the current P-C driven trend of woke people is to muzzle and shut down anything that they decide isnt appropriate to their standards, without consideration for opinions that differ from theirs. It seems to portrait this rigid ideology that they're victims of everything and that a single person or minority being offended by something holds moral highground above anything that could undermine or question their motives.

 

In other words, they're immaculate because they believe they're right. They also cant accept that other people see them in a certain way and particularly dont like the term "woke" because its of course offending and it either a made-up term or considered and "insult".

Edited September 24, 2021 by Kyonshi (see edit history)

[Sarakatunga]

44 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

More than one thing can be worked on at a time and this is hardly the worst offender of "unnecessary posts".  Take most of my posts as Exhibit A.

 

The biggest mistakes the OP made are assuming their opinion is matched by all women and that they have any say about what women think to begin with.  He (I'm assuming at this point the OP is a he) is an armchair warrior in a battle that should not extend into the unreality of 7DTD.  I'm in a family with strong women and they much prefer to talk for themselves.

 

 

That's why I said that it was unnecessary now it will be filled with insults with some 1000 pages ... haha

[drenup]

Dear developers, please do not be influenced by such ideas. I wish you all the strength and determination to cope with such problems. The game is very good, I really don't want to be spoiled by such changes. (translated by Google translate)

[doughphunghus]

If strip clubs didn't exist in all? US states, and they were only found *rarely* and you had to go through back channels to get into one... maybe it wouldn't fit the game.

There are a lot of places like this that aren't in the game because it wouldn't make sense to put them in, and it would also likely rub too many people the wrong way. TFP seems to be trying to make the game "sort of normal" in terms of buildings ( while adding a touch of ... whimsy for the building names). 

 

They didn't (and apparently wont ever) put baby zombies in the game. So its not like they're trying to go the full distance of horror or "in your face" aspects to produce shock value.  I want these zombies (personally) because they would actually exist in a "real" zed apocalypse, but more importantly, they would give a lot more "height differences" for things I have to shoot at.  The crawlers and spider help with this a bit though.  but if I want the kids/babies variations, I'm going to have to mod them in myself ( per other posts suggestions above for making game changes)

 

They haven't tried to add a lot of "worse" (and also highly unlikely, but real) POI's to amp up the "danger/visceral effect" like brothels, or "drug dens", or "torture chambers/sex dungeons", and "many bedrooms and basements have obvious suicides" and such.  There are a few "mini terror stories" baked into the POI's but its not like they try to go to go the distance and really shove the worst of humanity in your face every time you go into a building, especially if it doesn't fit with the "theme" of the game.  For example: they have "corpse burn/disposal piles" here and there, a noose shows up every now and then, there's a few "cult" dens but that fits the game given humanity fell to zombies.

 

Also:  Only 1 girl has big (medium size?) boobs that move (the rest don't) and this is kinda normal.  There's a few "high BMI" dudes (and dude jiggling), 1 "high BMI" female and some "stereotypical" ways of representing them too, so they're not completely trying to make it all about the boob physics.  My best guess is yeah, someone wanted zeds to have realistic (but computationally and labor cheap) body motions, and boobs and bellies were obvious places to test it out.

 

Also: One could argue to remove all the churches as they were offensive to some people... but they are everywhere in the US, so you expect to find a church.  Of course... which religion? I mean, they all have crosses in them, so they're really not showing the true types of churches you normally find... but then again, they kinda do (stereo-typically) for the US and the area the game is staged in and there's only so much you nuance you can put into a game world when all you really need is some structure and "the most recognizable" type of stuff.  "We need some churches" is probably about as far as it was discussed.  You could even remove the crosses in the churches to try to "fix" it and it would likely just make it look more wrong.

 

Also: back to the boobs. If there were a lot more zombie models (like 100), and they all had the same boob size/physics (or even larger and more obvious) and the same handful of stereotypes I would take OP's side a bit more, but since they zed "type count" is very low, and its not all about/on the boobs for every female, I can't see it as much as an issue as they need to get as much bang for the buck out of the handful of zed models they have.  The original (take your pick) zombie stripper had more nudity (and looked a lot more....rough.  The current one is more of "girl who went out to party and got bitten") and the only reason I had minor issue with the original (as a default in the game) was for poor game streamers who *might* get flagged due to nudity.

 

In conclusion: If strip clubs and boob wiggle were more morally offensive in the US (or where the game location were set in) and were highly regulated/banned and were less prevalent, then I would highly bet it would not be in the game.

[Matt115]

Honestly i understand his point and he's a little right. 

Games with zombies you can put in 3 category - 1. serious- dying light , the last of us , days gone, resident evil , cod waw- some jokes but 90% is serious sometimes gore and depresing, a lot of info about this world  2. gameplay focused : l4d2, world war z , cod advance warfare  world in this game is just backstage for gameplay but you can find info about this world. 3. parody- dead rising 4, cod infinity warfare, kiling floor ( i know: clone =/= zombies but it was realesed in this same time with l4d so diffrent types of enemies was neccesary to avoid "bootleg"), plants vs zombies.

 

And there is my problem with 7dtd : it's looks like - we are doing game similiar to f.e.a.r or dead space but it's sandbox. But after few years we change our plans and we are going to make something like cod- realistic graphic but it can't be taken seriouse.

 

Strip club suit very good for this 1 setting - well i think when zombie outbreak happen few  strip club was opened.  We have "bike bars", small restaurant  in "road 66 style" etc perfect setting for seriouse game- but we will get junk's guns, teddy head on dron (and drones), new "unked' models of guns , change marksman into lever gun etc.

Honestly : after first alphas what i expected - zombie teens, destroyed evac centres, pits with burned corpeses, hanging bodies, maybe  soldiers , bandits - some of them looking like typical civilians some of them like dunno crazy clowns , cultists etc.

What we get?: something like what if we mixed mortal machines, mad max and zombieland.

 

This is just inconsistet in my opinion - strip club and strip are good and people will love it but zombie teens too controversial. The best "example" of this is rope on one of the tree but without body to be not controvesrial but to have "seriouse" setting.

 

Tfp devs- 7dtd is rly good game in gameplay and graphic meaning and  anyone can say you put a lot of work in this gam  but it is just too safe and have kinda generic setting.

 

 

[Gamida]

I think they have the "jiggle tech" down how they need it. I mean on the dev stream when it was mentioned, there was an overwhelming surge of comments on if it would be on Jen. The dev piped in how is she affected by it? She is standing still. Not like she is on a treadmill. I thought that made sense. No movement, no jiggle.

[Badman82]

10 hours ago, hiemfire said:

Account 3 hours old. Only posts are on this thread, all of which fall squarely into the mantra of one of the current hardline political factions in the US. @Roland, @meganoth, or whichever mod may be perusing this, could we please get this thread locked before it follows the inevitable rails much further.

 

So what?  I have been playing this game for years and viewing the forum for the same amount, just never posted anything until I saw this cancel culture BS going on. 🤠

[Kyonshi]

10 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Honestly i understand his point and he's a little right. 

Games with zombies you can put in 3 category - 1. serious- dying light , the last of us , days gone, resident evil , cod waw- some jokes but 90% is serious sometimes gore and depresing, a lot of info about this world  2. gameplay focused : l4d2, world war z , cod advance warfare  world in this game is just backstage for gameplay but you can find info about this world. 3. parody- dead rising 4, cod infinity warfare, kiling floor ( i know: clone =/= zombies but it was realesed in this same time with l4d so diffrent types of enemies was neccesary to avoid "bootleg"), plants vs zombies.

 

And there is my problem with 7dtd : it's looks like - we are doing game similiar to f.e.a.r or dead space but it's sandbox. But after few years we change our plans and we are going to make something like cod- realistic graphic but it can't be taken seriouse.

 

Strip club suit very good for this 1 setting - well i think when zombie outbreak happen few  strip club was opened.  We have "bike bars", small restaurant  in "road 66 style" etc perfect setting for seriouse game- but we will get junk's guns, teddy head on dron (and drones), new "unked' models of guns , change marksman into lever gun etc.

Honestly : after first alphas what i expected - zombie teens, destroyed evac centres, pits with burned corpeses, hanging bodies, maybe  soldiers , bandits - some of them looking like typical civilians some of them like dunno crazy clowns , cultists etc.

What we get?: something like what if we mixed mortal machines, mad max and zombieland.

 

This is just inconsistet in my opinion - strip club and strip are good and people will love it but zombie teens too controversial. The best "example" of this is rope on one of the tree but without body to be not controvesrial but to have "seriouse" setting.

 

Tfp devs- 7dtd is rly good game in gameplay and graphic meaning and  anyone can say you put a lot of work in this gam  but it is just too safe and have kinda generic setting.

 

 

You're not really following TC train of thought if you're saying strip clubs are out of context only due to the setting you personally believe 7DTD happens into. TC states is opinion based on political correctness, you're not really talking about the same thing.

 

The Pimps said they dont wanna put kid zombies because they themselves dont feel good about doing so, not because of the fear of potential outrage it could cause. But other studios did it, notably Visceral in Dead Space 1 and more in Dead Space 2, where you have baby and teenage necromorphs that you have to kill.

 

The noose attached to a tree in the backyard of one of the houses is a reference to The Conjuring movie i believe. At least it does look like it. And what if there would still be a corpse hanging on it? It fits in the apocalyptic tone of 7DTD and this is a recurring element in such setting, just like in the Walking Dead, from which this game is directly inspired of. If someone would be offended by that, it would be because they decided to go along their offended feelings and not because the Pimps deliberately tried to offend people or to downplay the issue of suicide. Like TC is insinuating.

[Despair]

14 hours ago, Listening said:

 

Так что это будет спорным, но не должно быть. В настоящее время есть несколько точек интереса, которые вызывают беспокойство, но Стриптиз-клуб - самый важный. Я некоторое время обдумывал этот пост, но, увидев некоторые превью A20, мне кажется, что они делают больше вариаций этого POI, и, следовательно, пора сделать шаг вперед.

 

Заметьте, я отец молодых женщин, которые любят такие игры. Но меня не устраивают мистические образы стриптиз-клуба. Трупы женщин в клетках усугубляют влияние места, которое полностью посвящено объективизации женщин.

 

На мой взгляд, проверка для такого рода вещей состоит в том, чтобы подумать, если бы игра была разработана женщинами, попала бы в нее POI. Совершенно уверен, что нет.

 

Я чувствую, что TFP в некоторой степени осведомлены об этой проблеме. Женские персонажи получают лучшие наряды; У стриптизерши настоящая одежда, у медсестры типичный гендерно-нейтральный наряд, скорее, есть какой-то клише из 50-х (хотя теперь у каждого женского персонажа очень большая грудь, что также является реальной проблемой для имиджа для женщин). 

 

Пожалуйста, отнеситесь к этому отзыву серьезно. Хотя ожидается, что рынок игр мужской, зачем ставить барьеры для женщин. Больше игроков означает больше продаж и лучшее сообщество.

 

Если вы прочитали это и согласны, пожалуйста, сообщите об этом.

Concerning the objectification of women. I'll probably tell you a secret, but all women working in strip clubs, escort girls and the rest of the similar industry go there at will. No one can force women to do this (this is prohibited by law) and, accordingly, such locations in games are not something depressing.

As for the caged corpses. If you played the game, you probably managed to notice that the action takes place in the apocalypse, where the dead devour people. Details like this add to the atmosphere.

Big breasts at the stripper. This is a game, in games all the characters are fictional, so they cannot offend anyone. If a woman weighing 100 kilograms, who does nothing to change her position, says that the game character offends her, then this is her problem, why everyone should adapt to her. I have never seen men ask to remove this or that character, because he is too pumped up, handsome and generally does not exist.

In my own words, I want to convey that the sexualization of women in games is nonsense, and if you do not want your daughters to play games with such disgusting content, then just forbid them to play this game. Why does everyone else have to adjust to you?

Edited September 24, 2021 by Despair (see edit history)

[meganoth]

8 minutes ago, Despair said:

Concerning the objectification of women. I'll probably tell you a secret, but all women working in strip clubs, escort girls and the rest of the similar industry go there at will. No one can force women to do this (this is prohibited by law) and, accordingly, such locations in games are not something depressing.

 

Sorry, but that is naive. Sure there are probably a lot of generally above the board strip clubs and a lot of women doing this just as a job, but there are also a lot of clubs with strong connections to organized crime and with that comes slave trade and forced prostitution. 

 

[Roland]

14 hours ago, Listening said:

 

Note, I am the father of young women who love this kind of game.

 

Perhaps you can use the game as a teaching moment and a show of your commitment to your values. Just as you would not patronize a stripper club in the real world, you could show your young daughters your values by not ever going into the stripper club in the game. By foregoing whatever loot might be in there and canceling any quest that might take you inside you could show your kids that even though such places exist, we don't have to take part in them.

 

If you are religious as well you could even take the view that the proliferation of strip clubs in the pre-apocalyptic world brought down the judgement of the Almighty with a plague and punishment equal to the Flood in its devastation. In that case you would need to see the evidence of wickedness in the world that justified the wrath and that could justify their inclusion.

 

Removing the strip clubs from the game as well as the stripper zombies wouldn't really do anything to lessen the objectification of women in the world. But YOU boycotting them by either removing them from the game, or refusing to interact with them, or even uninstalling 7 Days to Die and removing it from your household all together and letting your daughters witness your actions could be a powerful way to fight the objectification of women in your own sphere and set the example for the values you hold dear.

 

The real lesson of import is that we cannot often control what the world and our environment throws at us that may violate our values. All we can control is what we do in response. To that end I applaud your feedback because you are doing something in reaction. As it is unlikely that there will be any change, you will have to choose next how you will react.

 

Also....seeing as I quoted the part of your OP that gives people the faintest idea of why you are letting young children play an M-rated game in the first place....why are you?

29 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

The Pimps said they dont wanna put kid zombies because they themselves dont feel good about doing so, not because of the fear of potential outrage it could cause.

 

Actually the reason is because they want this game to be an international hit and some countries would ban a game in which children (even zombie children) are being killed. I don't think the devs are against it, themselves, as The Walking Dead was a major source of inspiration and it is infamous for depicting children being killed. Zombie Girl shot by Rick in the pilot episode and "look at the yellow flowers" being the two big examples I can think of.

 

No, there is no reticence about including it in the game in and of itself. It comes down to what markets would we lose if we did it.

[Orgrim]

Дорогие товарищи выжившие! Я удивлен тому что пишут люди, не хотите что бы ваши дочки видели это заберите у них провод от компа, из за таких людей как вы наши любимые игры портятся. Начиная от лора игры заканчивая историей. Я человек толерантный. Но когда вы несете откровенную чушь, я молчать не буду

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Kyonshi said:

You're not really following TC train of thought if you're saying strip clubs are out of context only due to the setting you personally believe 7DTD happens into. TC states is opinion based on political correctness, you're not really talking about the same thing.

 

The Pimps said they dont wanna put kid zombies because they themselves dont feel good about doing so, not because of the fear of potential outrage it could cause. But other studios did it, notably Visceral in Dead Space 1 and more in Dead Space 2, where you have baby and teenage necromorphs that you have to kill.

 

The noose attached to a tree in the backyard of one of the houses is a reference to The Conjuring movie i believe. At least it does look like it. And what if there would still be a corpse hanging on it? It fits in the apocalyptic tone of 7DTD and this is a recurring element in such setting, just like in the Walking Dead, from which this game is directly inspired of. If someone would be offended by that, it would be because they decided to go along their offended feelings and not because the Pimps deliberately tried to offend people or to downplay the issue of suicide. Like TC is insinuating.

1.To first part  yeah but he doesn't wrote only about it.

2. i don't remember zombie teens in dead space, just baby and preteen(crawler and lurker) and this game had a lot of controversy these time. Honestly zombie preteens or baby could be too bad, but zombie high schooler could suit good. We have a lot of school POIs .  Zombie teens you have in days gone, no more room in hell and dying light and they are rly good enemies types ( in days gone are passive most of the time, in no more room are fast and hard to hit in head, and in  dying light they are working similiar to screamer with sound attack). So it would be too much controversial in 2013 , in 2014, 2015 maybe 2016, 2017, 2018 but now?  just another type of zombie. even minecraft have them.  So i hope Pimps will change their mind.

3. Well what if there were hanging body? this same sitation like with strip club unfortunatly. But it would more suit that  empty rope : in cod you have a lot of hanging corpses, this same in dying light , days gone. so this would be good

[MrRandomRus]

15 hours ago, Listening said:

 

Так что это будет спорным, но не должно быть. В настоящее время есть несколько точек интереса, которые вызывают беспокойство, но Стриптиз-клуб - самый важный. Я некоторое время обдумывал этот пост, но, увидев некоторые превью A20, мне кажется, что они делают больше вариаций этого POI, и, следовательно, пора сделать шаг вперед.

 

Заметьте, я отец молодых женщин, которые любят такие игры. Но меня не устраивают мистические образы стриптиз-клуба. Трупы женщин в клетках усугубляют влияние места, которое полностью посвящено объективизации женщин.

 

На мой взгляд, проверка для такого рода вещей состоит в том, чтобы подумать, если бы игра была разработана женщинами, попала бы в нее POI. Совершенно уверен, что нет.

 

Я чувствую, что TFP в некоторой степени осведомлены об этой проблеме. Женские персонажи получают лучшие наряды; У стриптизерши настоящая одежда, у медсестры типичный гендерно-нейтральный наряд, скорее, есть какой-то клише из 50-х (хотя теперь у каждого женского персонажа очень большая грудь, что также является реальной проблемой для имиджа для женщин). 

 

Пожалуйста, отнеситесь к этому отзыву серьезно. Хотя ожидается, что рынок игр мужской, зачем ставить барьеры для женщин. Больше игроков означает больше продаж и лучшее сообщество.

 

Если вы прочитали это и согласны, пожалуйста, сообщите об этом.

please don’t talk @%$#, delete your comment, people like you are pathetic, if you don’t like something, don’t look

[Kyonshi]

59 minutes ago, Roland said:

Actually the reason is because they want this game to be an international hit and some countries would ban a game in which children (even zombie children) are being killed. I don't think the devs are against it, themselves, as The Walking Dead was a major source of inspiration and it is infamous for depicting children being killed. Zombie Girl shot by Rick in the pilot episode and "look at the yellow flowers" being the two big examples I can think of.

 

No, there is no reticence about including it in the game in and of itself. It comes down to what markets would we lose if we did it.

Oh ok, i see. I said that because im pretty such i heard them (it was Rick i think) that answered a live question about children zombies (back then during the streams about A19) and im sure he said that it wouldnt feel good or appropriate, and i guess i interpreted it like it would be too creepy and of bad taste. I think the international market reason slipped of my mind somehow.

 

@Matt115

 

Yeah preteens or teens, we're talking about the same monster. But yeah i should have said preteens.

[BFT2020]

eh

 

The company name is The Fun Pimps.  Should they also change their name since pimps in real life objectify women?

[Maharin]

Just now, BFT2020 said:

eh

 

The company name is The Fun Pimps.  Should they also change their name since pimps in real life objectify women?

 

They pimp the fun, though... so maybe fun should be here complaining about the comparison to women?

[Urban Blackbear]

4 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

They pimp the fun, though... so maybe fun should be here complaining about the comparison to women?

 

Woah, how dare you guess the gender of fun! The PC Police will be there shortly.

 

Also on a sidenote I just looked up the etymology of the word "pimp". Not sure how we went from old German pimpf, literally "little fart" or "young boy" to "guy who manages prostitutes".

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

Perhaps you can use the game as a teaching moment and a show of your commitment to your values. Just as you would not patronize a stripper club in the real world, you could show your young daughters your values by not ever going into the stripper club in the game. By foregoing whatever loot might be in there and canceling any quest that might take you inside you could show your kids that even though such places exist, we don't have to take part in them.

 

If you are religious as well you could even take the view that the proliferation of strip clubs in the pre-apocalyptic world brought down the judgement of the Almighty with a plague and punishment equal to the Flood in its devastation. In that case you would need to see the evidence of wickedness in the world that justified the wrath and that could justify their inclusion.

 

Removing the strip clubs from the game as well as the stripper zombies wouldn't really do anything to lessen the objectification of women in the world. But YOU boycotting them by either removing them from the game, or refusing to interact with them, or even uninstalling 7 Days to Die and removing it from your household all together and letting your daughters witness your actions could be a powerful way to fight the objectification of women in your own sphere and set the example for the values you hold dear.

 

The real lesson of import is that we cannot often control what the world and our environment throws at us that may violate our values. All we can control is what we do in response. To that end I applaud your feedback because you are doing something in reaction. As it is unlikely that there will be any change, you will have to choose next how you will react.

 

Also....seeing as I quoted the part of your OP that gives people the faintest idea of why you are letting young children play an M-rated game in the first place....why are you?

 

Actually the reason is because they want this game to be an international hit and some countries would ban a game in which children (even zombie children) are being killed. I don't think the devs are against it, themselves, as The Walking Dead was a major source of inspiration and it is infamous for depicting children being killed. Zombie Girl shot by Rick in the pilot episode and "look at the yellow flowers" being the two big examples I can think of.

 

No, there is no reticence about including it in the game in and of itself. It comes down to what markets would we lose if we did it.

And get more player thx for free advertising- even big companies like Rockstar use controversy as free advertising in media. I don't want to be political but by trying to "suit" into few countries laws we get crappy cod WW2. So if i good remember- in austrailia maybe in germany ( but  germany change their law) and arabic countries it would be banned but in my coutntries it would get more players- days gone is selling in a lot of countries this same dying light for example

 

20 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

Oh ok, i see. I said that because im pretty such i heard them (it was Rick i think) that answered a live question about children zombies (back then during the streams about A19) and im sure he said that it wouldnt feel good or appropriate, and i guess i interpreted it like it would be too creepy and of bad taste. I think the international market reason slipped of my mind somehow.

 

@Matt115

 

Yeah preteens or teens, we're talking about the same monster. But yeah i should have said preteens.

Yep, btw there is a 2 types of "kid enemy" in dead space 

14 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

eh

 

The company name is The Fun Pimps.  Should they also change their name since pimps in real life objectify women?

Well Pimps sound like scottish band.