A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[jorbascrumps]

18 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

you can still make the frames

 

Which frames? Wood? Then you would need to upgrade each frame through every stage if you want steel.

[BFT2020]

7 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

Which frames? Wood? Then you would need to upgrade each frame through every stage if you want steel.

Or once you figure out how you want to build your base (with the frames), you remove them and replace them with concrete blocks.

 

You are not REQUIRED to upgrade the wood frames once you lay them out.  I use wood frames all the time when I got cobblestone or concrete blocks to ensure I am placing them where I want to.  Then once I am satisfied, I just simply pick them up and replace them with my construction block.

[jorbascrumps]

2 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Or once you figure out how you want to build your base (with the frames), you remove them and replace them with concrete blocks.

 

You are not REQUIRED to upgrade the wood frames once you lay them out.  I use wood frames all the time when I got cobblestone or concrete blocks to ensure I am placing them where I want to.  Then once I am satisfied, I just simply pick them up and replace them with my construction block.

 

Fair point, I hadn't considered that.

[Matt115]

3 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

It's true for me.

For you. But MrDalekJD , Blackops amazing,  Mat Patt , Wow Such Gaming are popular 

[dcsobral]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

Or once you figure out how you want to build your base (with the frames), you remove them and replace them with concrete blocks.

 

You are not REQUIRED to upgrade the wood frames once you lay them out.  I use wood frames all the time when I got cobblestone or concrete blocks to ensure I am placing them where I want to.  Then once I am satisfied, I just simply pick them up and replace them with my construction block.

That's easy when you are using cubes, ramps, poles and pillars. I don't think it's going to be easy to replace wood frames with corresponding ready-blocks when you are using 100 shapes with multiple rotations.

Edited September 14, 2021 by dcsobral (see edit history)

[jeromeN7]

45 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

That's easy when you are using cubes, ramps, poles and pillars. I don't think it's going to be easy to replace wood frames with corresponding ready-blocks when you are using 100 shapes with multiple rotations.

The new system doesn't seem so streamlined, if it can't offer the option frame stuff out at any upgrade stage with many advanced shapes, and then easily upgrade it. The cobblestone frame was nice to have for this reason.

Edited September 14, 2021 by jeromeN7 (see edit history)

[Roland]

Sounds like there will be a lot of interest in tomorrow's stream! Make sure to tune in for in depth view of the new shape menu and building with blocks.

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, jeromeN7 said:

The new system doesn't seem so streamlined, if it can't offer the option frame stuff out at any upgrade stage with many advanced shapes, and then easily upgrade it. The cobblestone frame was nice to have for this reason.

Wait?  There was a cobblestone frame?🤔

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

For you. But MrDalekJD , Blackops amazing,  Mat Patt , Wow Such Gaming are popular 

okay and exactly why they matter?

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

Wait?  There was a cobblestone frame?🤔

okay and exactly why they matter?

okay - this mean people want to know about story and lore of the game or series. Ofc nobody want to buy minecraft to get info about lore of this world. But it have a lore and this allowed them  to make books or spinoff. The forest is my opinion just medicore sandbox - not bad not good just 6/10. But it have sooo good lore^^ and a lot of people was searching places to find clues what is going on. YT creatores were making a lot of videos about this and it was popular. I even think some people bought l4d2 because they was sure there will be some connection to diffrent Valve games and it will give them some clues - you know portal and hf are in this same universe.  So if 7dtd gave us some "clues" about lore  some people will be making videos with theories. More people watch them = more people will know about 7DTD - i think group of people bought 7dtd after video created by THE GAME THEORISTS. 

So - good lore ( not story this is something diffrent ) is important for zombie game. RE have good games with sometimes good stories (re 7,8 ) sometimes bad ( re 5, 6 ) but lore is good enough to bought if you want to know a lore of this universe. 

And honestly i'm kinda afraid - TFP promise us to add story - but this doesn't mean that lore will be good.

i will give you short examples 1. - you get info that Slim Pick - a bandit leader want to kill Big Lefty- okay you kill him but after that Slim Pick is going to kill you . You kill him and now you are a bandit leader of this mob. THE END. 

2. You meet a ex soldier and tell you that in  some secret lab is antivirus - you get there but this place looks "generic" ( i mean it doesn't looks good but it just doesn't  give you any lore info). You get a antivirus ,  you came back to this soldier but he tells you it is too late because virus is too much mutated. THE END.

 

L4D2 will be perfect example what i mean - ofc you can just shoot and run. There is a story- few people want to run away from zombies. But it have good lore - from writing on wall you can learn what happenes, from maps where are zombies  and when you will probably go in future. You can learn a lot about characters past, zombie outbreak, what CEDA done wrong etc. 

So this could be perfect for 7dtd. And if TFP want to make another game in this universe this would give them solid "base". 

BTW TFP if you want a good universe to yours game i can create it for free! 😂

Edited September 15, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[jeromeN7]

Who put something in my drink? What does all this have to do with the cobblestone frame? WHY ARE YOU QUOTING ME!?

[Roland]

There is now one frame block and it is wood. If you want to place a frame and then upgrade it you will have to do frame -> wood -> cobblestone -> Concrete -> Steel. It only requires 10 mats to upgrade each time so it really isn't a big deal as long as you have wood and cobblestone rocks and Concrete Mix in your inventory.

 

Place a frame and (with a claw hammer) click it six times and it is concrete for the cost of 10 wood, 10 cobblestone, and ten Concrete Mix. WIth a nailgun it would be three clicks. If you don't want to spend that much in mats then place frames to plan it all out and then replace them (by picking them up) with concrete blocks that you crafted.

 

There used to be once upon a time wood frames, cobblestone frames, scrap iron frames, and rebar frames. One of those is all that is left. However, the variety of shapes we can use to build in interesting and beautiful and satisfying ways has skyrocketed. So fewer starting points but many many many new toys to build with and you merely need to decide to craft blocks and place or start with frames and upgrade through the path which is very short and simple now.

 

I'm sure you will get even more details in the next stream and see it in action.

[jeromeN7]

@RolandIs the wood frame the only one left partially because it already took a lot of time to model all 1200 shapes for it? Because all wood frames now have 3D models? I'm not complaining about so many new shapes to work with, but I'd be nice to have frames for each upgrade tier. Just ideas, but if people really want it, perhaps we could get frames for cobblestone and concrete that are exactly the same model as the wood frames. I can see people biting the bullet and using wood frames, then grinding their teeth while they whack each block 6 times with a hammer, who knows...

[Doomofman]

On 9/13/2021 at 6:12 PM, samljer said:

 

Was there; It must  have been during that single 5minutes I got up lol. Ill go back and look for it, thanks lol.

1:35:12 in the YouTube VOD just after they show off the Spider Zombie design and the new regular zombie based on the old spider appearance. hopefully the below should bring you to the right moment

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Doomofman (see edit history)

[dcsobral]

52 minutes ago, crazywildfire said:

As far as the statement that was made about picking up the corners or the 1000 of odd shapes. If you don't want to upgrade each step and don't want to go through 1000s of shapes to find that odd one you placed down. Simply put the concrete block in hand and look at the odd frame block and do the copy block before picking the frame up. I think I said this right.

Only works if picking up that block doesn't break structural integrity. If you need to take out all of the blocks being supported by one particular block to replace that one block, it won't work. Now, I'm used to upgrading everything from wood frames so this won't affect me, but I can definitely see issues building out of frames then replacing the frames with blocks of the desired material.

[Jost Amman]

2 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

There better be some very noticeable differences between them if that's going to be the case.

Since apparently it's not like that, I guess you'd better be steady while placing concrete blocks, or you'll pay dearly your mistake!  

Edited September 15, 2021 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, jeromeN7 said:

@RolandIs the wood frame the only one left partially because it already took a lot of time to model all 1200 shapes for it? Because all wood frames now have 3D models? I'm not complaining about so many new shapes to work with, but I'd be nice to have frames for each upgrade tier. Just ideas, but if people really want it, perhaps we could get frames for cobblestone and concrete that are exactly the same model as the wood frames. I can see people biting the bullet and using wood frames, then grinding their teeth while they whack each block 6 times with a hammer, who knows...

 

I can see those people scrounging some more until the find a nailgun 😁

[crazywildfire]

27 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

Only works if picking up that block doesn't break structural integrity. If you need to take out all of the blocks being supported by one particular block to replace that one block, it won't work. Now, I'm used to upgrading everything from wood frames so this won't affect me, but I can definitely see issues building out of frames then replacing the frames with blocks of the desired material.

 

I'm used to it as well. Was just sayin that to someone that said something about putting the frames down but we have 1200 blocks to go through to find that one odd shape to replace that frame. You don't have to go through the blocks in that case. Just copy block before picking frame up. But yes for those that either not used to wood frames and upgrading them or just don't like doing it that way I can see it being more I guess inconvenient for them. 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

Since apparently it's not like that, I guess you'd better be steady while placing concrete blocks, or you'll pay dearly your mistake!  

Or perhaps you could upgrade just the critical ones that will make or break your structure and just place the rest. The upgrade path is pretty fast and cheap if we are just talking about specialty blocks and detailing rather than doing it that way for the entire structure.

[jeromeN7]

Now that I think of it. Considering when we want reinforced concrete. We have to craft the rebar frames, then upgrade them, then wait for it to dry, then upgrade it, wait for it to dry again, and finally get reinforced concrete. Ultimately we are eliminating, the spent waiting for concrete to dry, gathering iron, and forging rebar frames, at the cost of only two extra clicks with a hammer.

 

That's a good deal, but it will still save us time if we would get rebar frames. Maybe that's the point, rebar frames could make it too quick to build up concrete stuff. But if the people are to complain a good compromise would be to add the rebar frames at the cost of having to wait for concrete to dry, I like this idea. As silly as it may sound it's immersive to wait for concrete dry.

[bdubyah]

1 hour ago, jeromeN7 said:

Now that I think of it. Considering when we want reinforced concrete. We have to craft the rebar frames, then upgrade them, then wait for it to dry, then upgrade it, wait for it to dry again, and finally get reinforced concrete. Ultimately we are eliminating, the spent waiting for concrete to dry, gathering iron, and forging rebar frames, at the cost of only two extra clicks with a hammer.

 

That's a good deal, but it will still save us time if we would get rebar frames. Maybe that's the point, rebar frames could make it too quick to build up concrete stuff. But if the people are to complain a good compromise would be to add the rebar frames at the cost of having to wait for concrete to dry, I like this idea. As silly as it may sound it's immersive to wait for concrete dry.

No, using rebar frames means you go to reinforced concrete right off the bat. You don't upgrade it twice. That was the tradeoff, use more iron to skip the regular concrete step. Was just a mess currently due to rebar frames missing the majority of shapes. 

[jeromeN7]

30 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

No, using rebar frames means you go to reinforced concrete right off the bat.

Yeah, I forgot about that. I just started playing again. There's no excuses now, the new system will make life harder.

But, yeah, yeah, yeah, more shapes are good...

Edited September 16, 2021 by jeromeN7 (see edit history)

[bdubyah]

I'm not arguing, I would've preferred they keep all the different levels but just standardize the shapes and hp gains. I do like them doing away with downgrades though. 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, dcsobral said:

SHIFT R opens the shape menu

Or you can just press and hold R. That’s what I do. Never knew about Shift R actually…

[Jost Amman]

7 hours ago, Roland said:

Or perhaps you could upgrade just the critical ones that will make or break your structure and just place the rest. The upgrade path is pretty fast and cheap if we are just talking about specialty blocks and detailing rather than doing it that way for the entire structure.

I'm sorry? Have you ever even built a base?? 

Most of the time you need A LOT of high tier blocks to build ANY base, so that means that now we'll have to go through the full upgrade path EACH TIME? 

[NukemDed]

11 hours ago, faatal said:

 may be better (or same, or worse)

excellent! thanks for clearing that up 🙂