A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Old Garyman]

1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

You can already do that in A19 vanilla as well. So glad Subquake finally got around to including it also.

Hmm, how? Please help me. With a mod?

 

Yeah, this function rocks!

Edited March 6, 2021 by Old Garyman (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

19 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Exactly. The behaviour is as expected (they hit a random block if they can't reach you).

Did you guys even watch most of the video??

 

At some point he (the player) jumps down and goes right behind some zeds, and they keep ignoring him and hitting the wall.

Blake_ gave the best explanation IMO, but you guys ignoring the fact that the AI is not working very well doesn't help the game or faatal. 

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

You can already do that in A19 vanilla as well. So glad Subquake finally got around to including it also.

Are you sure? I can't remember locking inventory slots to be working in A19.

They surely talked about it, but I don't think it was ever added. 

[Gamida]

On 3/5/2021 at 3:36 PM, Old Garyman said:

Hi Fun Pimps,

 

I like to lock inventory slots how it is in the Subquakes mod Undead Legacy 2.2.84 for A19.3(b6).

 

Is anything like this planned for Alpha20?

 

Would love if you could right click a slot and lock it as I like to have my items in certain ones all around my inventory...not just certain number starting from the first slot.

[pregnable]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

Zombies don't need to change targets every few seconds. Their chances to destroy your structure increase anyway if they continue to hit blocks until destroyed (and only retarget if they actually have a path to you.

 

If you have more real estate than the zombies can destroy in one horde night you haven't anything to fear anyway.

 

 

 

Would be cool if they get to the point where they can make 32+ max alive zombies the default.  Zombie ai would probably be easier to balance if you can just throw more at the player, heh.

 

Been having a lot of fun with 64 max alive. 

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Did you guys even watch most of the video??

 

No. 7 minutes is not a short video in my book.

 

3 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

At some point he (the player) jumps down and goes right behind some zeds, and they keep ignoring him and hitting the wall.

Blake_ gave the best explanation IMO, but you guys ignoring the fact that the AI is not working very well doesn't help the game or faatal. 

 

Which is why I said "and only retarget if they actually have a path to you"

[katarynna]

4 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

You can already do that in A19 vanilla as well. So glad Subquake finally got around to including it also.

You can already do that in A19 vanilla as well. So glad Subquake finally got around to including it also.

 

Lockable slots are not in vanilla. All the sort buttons are, but not the lockable slots.

[Jost Amman]

4 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Which is why I said "and only retarget if they actually have a path to you"

Which they didn't do... need a pair of glasses??

[meganoth]

4 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Which they didn't do... need a pair of glasses??

Obviously, since I was talking about a way to improve the AI. ... need a pair of reading glasses?? 😉

Edited March 6, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[seven]

22 minutes ago, katarynna said:

 

Lockable slots are not in vanilla. All the sort buttons are, but not the lockable slots.

 

The lockable slots are in vanilla, just not enabled. The relevant part of the xml is commented out. The lockable slot mod I use just adds back the code that's already there.

[Blake_]

20 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Which is why I said "and only retarget if they actually have a path to you". Love  is my only path when I argue.

 

15 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Which they didn't do... need a pair of glasses?? I miss you.

 

12 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Obviously, since I was talking about a way to improve the AI. ... I would also like your clothes and your motorcycle.

Children plz. Imma call Roland and he ' gonna com a knockin' with the full power of algebra. And we' gonna end in odd numbers and with an X .

[Jost Amman]

11 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Children plz. Imma call Roland and he ' gonna com a knockin' with the full power of algebra. And we' gonna end in odd numbers and with an X .

But... but... meganoth told A LIE!! You told me lies ARE BAD granpa! 

[MechanicalLens]

4 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Did you guys even watch most of the video??

 

At some point he (the player) jumps down and goes right behind some zeds, and they keep ignoring him and hitting the wall.

Blake_ gave the best explanation IMO, but you guys ignoring the fact that the AI is not working very well doesn't help the game or faatal. 

 

This happens to me very often. Wandering hordes, regular zombies, even screamers sometimes. It's as if the AI calculates that the player is still in their former position.

[Roland]

This is crazy....this is not a bug reporting thread. If you believe there to be a bug with zombie AI, test it, reproduce it, and post it to the bug thread. Faatal doesn’t need us to hand him A19 bugs to work on. That is the job of the QA team.

[MechanicalLens]

12 minutes ago, Roland said:

This is crazy....this is not a bug reporting thread. If you believe there to be a bug with zombie AI, test it, reproduce it, and post it to the bug thread. Faatal doesn’t need us to hand him A19 bugs to work on. That is the job of the QA team.

 

I don't believe our intention was to submit a bug. I'd like to think we were merely... sharing observations.

 

Add-on: Besides, this hiccup of an AI fluke is a very minor issue; certainly nothing to look into in the games' current development. So let us all forget about it and move on.

Edited March 7, 2021 by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

[katarynna]

2 hours ago, seven said:

 

The lockable slots are in vanilla, just not enabled. The relevant part of the xml is commented out. The lockable slot mod I use just adds back the code that's already there.

By not in vanilla, i meant not enabled in vanilla. I'm aware that they are in the code but not enabled, and that the mods that have lockable slots are using tfp code.

[MechanicalLens]

6 minutes ago, katarynna said:

By not in vanilla, i meant not enabled in vanilla. I'm aware that they are in the code but not enabled, and that the mods that have lockable slots are using tfp code.

 

Do you think such a feature could benefit the player somehow or is it just another excuse to be lazy?; the latter is what the human mind gravitates towards. It's important to ask these sorts of questions before proceeding forward. It's just a minor inconvenience. Accidentally deposited your shotgun shells away? Just grab them back out, or alternatively have a separate dump chest where you deposit all of your typical gear that you keep in your backpack before you start to organize what you have collected out in the world, then collect your items back from the dump chest and carry on.

[katarynna]

Many features (vehicles, larger storage, etc) benefit the player, while you could say also is an excuse to be "lazy". I do like quality of life improvements, although personally i can enjoy the game without them.

 

The lockable slots are a nice addition in the overhaul mods i play, but i don't use modlets to add them to my vanilla games, although i certainly could. 

 

From what i recall, they haven't been added to the vanilla game because they haven't been completely bug tested and such. 

 

I hope they are added into vanilla game play at some point, but i am quite content to wait for it.

[seven]

56 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

Do you think such a feature could benefit the player somehow or is it just another excuse to be lazy?; the latter is what the human mind gravitates towards. It's important to ask these sorts of questions before proceeding forward. It's just a minor inconvenience. Accidentally deposited your shotgun shells away? Just grab them back out, or alternatively have a separate dump chest where you deposit all of your typical gear that you keep in your backpack before you start to organize what you have collected out in the world, then collect your items back from the dump chest and carry on.

 

You didn't ask me, but I think lockable slots makes it more realistic. We have pocket mods for the clothes and the armor, but if we dump out our backpack, it's dumping everything, our entire inventory (well, except the toolbelt). In other games that have some similarity to 7DtD, the backpack, pockets on clothes, pants, etc. are separate so if you drop the backpack you still have all the other stuff. I'm not suggesting 7DtD go that route, but lockable slots is a compromise between that and the current vanilla implementation.

[Jost Amman]

6 hours ago, Roland said:

This is crazy....this is not a bug reporting thread. If you believe there to be a bug with zombie AI, test it, reproduce it, and post it to the bug thread. Faatal doesn’t need us to hand him A19 bugs to work on. That is the job of the QA team.

My bad, shouldn't have brought up the issue here... 

[Old Garyman]

15 hours ago, Gamida said:

Would love if you could right click a slot and lock it as I like to have my items in certain ones all around my inventory...not just certain number starting from the first slot.

Sorry you couldn't see it in the video. You can lock every slot you want. The L-Key for me it's OK.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Old Garyman (see edit history)

[meilodasreh]

12 hours ago, NinjaMoa said:

What is done for the Y aspect then?

Its of course meant "X=horizontal" and "Z=vertical".

You can approach a volume either from any side which is always horizontal ("X"),

and you can make your way through roofs/floors, which would be a vertical approach ("Z")

No reason to distinguish "X" and "Y" in this context.

If you want a volume to be triggered "earlier" when approached from a certain direction (might be useful/necessary for some building/indoor layout to get a certain effect),

then you can just do it by making the volume itself broader/longer.

[hiemfire]

2 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

Its of course meant "X=horizontal" and "Z=vertical".

You can approach a volume either from any side which is always horizontal ("X"),

and you can make your way through roofs/floors, which would be a vertical approach ("Z")

No reason to distinguish "X" and "Y" in this context.

If you want a volume to be triggered "earlier" when approached from a certain direction (might be useful/necessary for some building/indoor layout to get a certain effect),

then you can just do it by making the volume itself broader/longer.

y= elevation or height. X and Z are the horizontal coordinates (correspond to width and depth in a 3d graph).

[Shado47]

On 2/19/2021 at 3:37 PM, meganoth said:

So you are saying you are against the current RWG rework because it is another rework even though it should bring back some features we are missing since A16?

 

Now I don't know why A16's RWG was deemed not good enough, I can only assume it had its limits as well. But I'm pretty sure I want that overhaul that they are doing now if it brings back rivers and lakes and cities as their own "biome".

 

 

I am against keeping to redo the whole generator. At some point they'll have to settle on one that they'll just keep improving. Over the last 6 or so years there were a whole number of great Random Gens out there in the game but they always go back in to "improve it" and sometimes its hit but more often its miss.

A16 was great and I think if one took that one, got bridges in so roads don't just cut through a large lake on an embankment, got caves in and a bunch of the other new features, that one would absolutely slay. It had different districts for cities with fluid shapes instead of the super boring grid circle/cube layout we have today.

That generator stuck in mind because it was the most memorable out of all of them with its 20 km diameter (round shape) world, good performance, nice mountain hapes etc.

 

Take that one, add the new terrain erosion features, for the love of god don't remove even more biomes, fix the roads that used to end in the middle of nowhere (still happens on A19 so who am I kidding), add the terrain feature stamp system from A20, proper caves (!!!), few more tweaks ... and voila. You got yourself an amazing worldgen.

 

But nah, lets add even lower tier firearms that based on early game progression will need like 20 shots to the head to even kill a zombie at the start and that will be completely obsolete later on once you got your first pistol, proper shotgun etc.

Lets redo the clothing system we haven't redone that one in a while.

Lets redo almost all the zombies again because we haven't done that in at least 1 version.

 

I love this game but the devs are basically in a maze and instead of trying to get to the target they just explore all the dead ends over and over as if the pathway to go gold is just suddenly gonna open up on one of them.

[Jost Amman]

@Shado47 You seem like the type who picks a direction and follows it no matter what... even if it brings you down a cliff. I guess TFP have done everything wrong apparently, they should have listened to you, it was so simple after all!