Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Kosmic Kerman]

13 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

LBD works if what you're "learning" only applies to what you're "doing".

 

...it failed last time because people were crafting stone axes and buying the ability to make concrete.

 

 

And you'd still have the problem from getting XP from crafting stations. I'm glad I can just set stuff to craft and leave the base rather than babysitting it or blocking outputs. I've yet to play a game with a good implementation of LBD. If you scale XP gain for typical play, people will spam to get to max level quickly and then complain. If you build the system for the min-maxers than the "normal" players are left with either being underleveled or spam crafting.

[SnowDog1942]

LBD talk again? really?  Im gonna go jump off a bridge, later.

[dcsobral]

18 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

LBD talk again? really?  Im gonna go jump off a bridge, later.

Is there a stripper parade on the street below the bridge?

30 minutes ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

And you'd still have the problem from getting XP from crafting stations. I'm glad I can just set stuff to craft and leave the base rather than babysitting it or blocking outputs. I've yet to play a game with a good implementation of LBD. If you scale XP gain for typical play, people will spam to get to max level quickly and then complain. If you build the system for the min-maxers than the "normal" players are left with either being underleveled or spam crafting.

I'd argue Valheim has a pretty good implementation of LBD. Crafting is not a skill in Valheim, however, and it's only locked by materials. Guppy makes a good point that crafting in 7d2d is missing the D in LBD. You don't "do" crafting, you queue it and the computer does it for you. There's also the lack of failure and consequences of failing, and the fact that your skill results in the same quality across all tiers -- you craft steel axes with the same quality as you craft stone axes. It reminded me of Potion Craft: Alchemist Simulator, which has the most interesting tech tree unlock and crafting system I've ever seen. I'd be totally ok with LBD if crafting required a minigame in the likes of Potion Craft.

 

[Uncle Al]

The only tiny negative I'm finding with the new building system is the loss of iron bars and catwalks.  Being able to upgrade them to cobble is actually a lot easier, and although it doesn't allow the spans iron did is generally fine for structural stability, but it feels like cheating and requires painting to not look odd.

 

In a perfect world right clicking wood shapes with a salvaging tool would upgrade them to metal instead of stone when using a builder's tool,  but I'm guessing that would go against the simplification initiative.

 

The new shape options are phenomenal.

[doughphunghus]

Being able to upgrade “wood to cobble” for everything gets weird in some situations, like “I boarded up this window, now let me upgrade it to …errrr…cobblestone boards?”  The visual for this looks weird too as it still looks like “loose and random cobblestone boards over a window”. 

 

it’s similar when upgrading anything that has a railing/handrail. “Yes, this is my thin cobblestone handrail.”

 

other than that, it works out for most shapes I’ve seen (looks good) at least doors don’t upgrade from wood -> cobblestone. 

[dcsobral]

31 minutes ago, Uncle Al said:

The only tiny negative I'm finding with the new building system is the loss of iron bars and catwalks.  Being able to upgrade them to cobble is actually a lot easier, and although it doesn't allow the spans iron did is generally fine for structural stability, but it feels like cheating and requires painting to not look odd.

 

In a perfect world right clicking wood shapes with a salvaging tool would upgrade them to metal instead of stone when using a builder's tool,  but I'm guessing that would go against the simplification initiative.

 

The new shape options are phenomenal.

I'd like two separate upgrade paths: wood frame -> wood -> cobblestone -> concrete and scrap iron -> steel. It makes more sense to me that way. Right now I'm having to craft steel blocks for the key SI points of my base, and couldn't possibly afford building the stuff I did back in alpha 16 when I really stretched the limits of SI.

[Blake_]

2 hours ago, Guppycur said:

LBD works if what you're "learning" only applies to what you're "doing".

 

...it failed last time because people were crafting stone axes and buying the ability to make concrete.

 

 

I agree, if done properly you can control which things increase what.

 

Armour leveling up by bumping into a cactus? Cactus shouldn't affect leveling, that was on them. The only reliable way to do armour should've been by losing health against stronger enemies, so you couldn't exploit it at all even with first aid kits and steel armour. Normal zds would give no armour xp unless you were against 3 or more and you already had critical debuffs on you. Something like that.

Running shouldn't be a skill, but a set of perks like now (cardio). And weapons same as the armour. A hybrid system was always the solution. Current system is ok though. "It just works".

 

 

[JCrook1028]

5 hours ago, FranticDan said:

I have loot respawn off but want zombies to respawn.

So this makes me curious. Why would you be going back into a POI anyway if loot respawn is off. Why would zombie respawn even natter?

[Khalagar]

I dunno what people are on about, the new building system is a trillion times better. The shape menu, being able to upgrade everything to cobble, the VASTLY faster upgrade speed, the trader offering 500 blocks as a reward etc

 

The only minor issues I have with the building system atm is just that it seems like not all shapes are equal health, and for storage they don't all have the same number of storage spots. So if you want to make your base look nice and use cabniets instead of the writable storage box, it has way less storage capacity.

[Blake_]

7 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

So this makes me curious. Why would you be going back into a POI anyway if loot respawn is off. Why would zombie respawn even natter?

They respawn every 7 hours, don't they? I usually go back to a POI to get that extra xp and also free jumpscares due to them being all radiated  or something crazy like that.

[madmole]

22 hours ago, Blake_ said:

I am loving what I hear. So you are bringing back a limited version of learn by doing Just for the weapons so you can "Diablo" your way into a purple legendary weapon and have slack for legendary "enchantments" or did I misunderstand? Or Are the weapon points gained just from quests?

 

 

Nothing is finalized, but we're talking about a crafting skill for every item in the game. Associated books and schematics might add to it when read, and probably the introduction of "technical journals" or something you find and read to add to the skill. Higher intellect might give you +2 or something instead of +1. Something we can control in loot so players don't get too powerful too soon, (No spam crafting) and skill system to where its easier to craft a blue stone axe than a blue steel axe.

18 hours ago, fragtzack said:

Please be careful about bringing back learn by doing. The original learn by doing system highly encouraged grinding to raise skill points. To the point of unattended bot usage. 

 

 While learn by doing is more realistic to real life (such a swinging a pickaxe gaining STR), you must make hard decisions outside of a realistic focus  in the name of game play. 

 

 I despised the grinding requirements in a15, "I.E. Learn by doing".

 

All said and done, would like to see a limited form of learn by doing as long as grinding is not practical to gain skill from learn by doing. 

 

We're not. It's more like learn by looting lol.

16 hours ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

I've been playing both singleplayer and on a small server. So far I'm really enjoying this alpha. Only two things I can think of to complain about.

 

1: I understand that there were too many working workbenches/forges/etc in A19, but I think removing them all was a kneejerk reaction. Many players enjoy a  "nomad" type playstyle where they don't build bases and are constantly on the move, removing all working stations makes this type of playstyle borderline impossible.

No because you can put a land claim down, place your work benches use them, then pick them back up again. Still easy to be a nomad. With vehicles and drones to carry loot around I don't see a problem taking workbenches with you everywhere and setting up quick/temp anywhere.

[gpcstargate]

I would not say burnt Out at all with over 6000 hours and counting. Love and I love building in the game on the most part, just miss some of the Old Stuff. 

9 Years in the making ... never gets Old and fun to play ... People complain about how long it has been in EA ... IT Only gets Better, like a woman or good Whiskey.

 

 

Enjoy and Have Fun  😘

[jorbascrumps]

11 minutes ago, madmole said:

Nothing is finalized, but we're talking about a crafting skill for every item in the game. Associated books and schematics might add to it when read, and probably the introduction of "technical journals" or something you find and read to add to the skill. Higher intellect might give you +2 or something instead of +1. Something we can control in loot so players don't get too powerful too soon, (No spam crafting) and skill system to where its easier to craft a blue stone axe than a blue steel axe.

 

Keeping expectations in check but this sounds like a great direction.

 

Also that new pic is sexy af.

[madmole]

5 hours ago, mstdv inc said:

Hey @madmole

I have been waiting for A20 all this time not in order to arrange a speedrun for the game, as many do, but in order to enjoy the game and stay at every stage of development as long as possible.
At 25% exp, I ran into a problem when a merchant offers me a forge, a chemical laboratory and a workbench even before the first horde. Of course, I did not buy them so as not to spoil my game, although I already had money for them by that time.
Have the developers thought about adding a traderstage in the future by analogy with a lootstage?
So that the trader's assortment and even his rewards correspond to the percentage of experience that the player has put.
Also, setting the percentage of experience could affect the parameter "quest per tier",increasing it from 7 to 10 or up to 14 if the player chooses less than 100% of experience.

Yes A21 will feature a trader stage, where players will see buckets of inventory based on their stage. This will help control progression which is key to long term fun.

3 hours ago, SnowDog1942 said:

LBD talk again? really?  Im gonna go jump off a bridge, later.

The LBD guys take any scrap of information and twist it into LBD lol. LBD is not coming back, but rather a crafting skill per item not associated with the perks like now.

3 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

Keeping expectations in check but this sounds like a great direction.

 

Also that new pic is sexy af.

Thanks! I always had long hair then got a mullet, hated it and went with a crew cut/fade for 23 years. Then the barbers closed and I started getting some locks back and remembered who I am lol. No turning back now.

[jorbascrumps]

8 minutes ago, madmole said:

Thanks! I always had long hair then got a mullet, hated it and went with a crew cut/fade for 23 years. Then the barbers closed and I started getting some locks back and remembered who I am lol. No turning back now.

 

I've been back and forth for a few years between shaved and long hair. When everything closed I saw it as an opportunity to try one out without worrying how it looked. I went with shaved and thought it looked pretty good. Maybe one day I'll grow it out...

[MuffinMan]

Loving A20 so far.

 

There is a bug in the b218, if you increase casino coin stack to beyond 100000, it doesn't save character properly and will quickly lead to your player save being "wiped". Reproduced it 3 times just by increasing stacksize to 100000, restarting, giving myself 100000 and saving/loading a few times.

[Khalagar]

32 minutes ago, madmole said:

LBD is not coming back,

 

 

You heard it here first folks, rev up those hype machines and ready the pitchforks if the final end result doesn't match what ever expectations you whipped up!!

 

 

[dcsobral]

1 hour ago, Blake_ said:

I agree, if done properly you can control which things increase what.

 

Armour leveling up by bumping into a cactus? Cactus shouldn't affect leveling, that was on them. The only reliable way to do armour should've been by losing health against stronger enemies, so you couldn't exploit it at all even with first aid kits and steel armour. Normal zds would give no armour xp unless you were against 3 or more and you already had critical debuffs on you. Something like that.

Running shouldn't be a skill, but a set of perks like now (cardio). And weapons same as the armour. A hybrid system was always the solution. Current system is ok though. "It just works".

 

 

Besides, armor is passive defense. It doesn't need a skill.

[wolfbain5]

1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

So this makes me curious. Why would you be going back into a POI anyway if loot respawn is off. Why would zombie respawn even natter?

to finish looting, to go in and salvage the place, to tear it down for mats. to tear it down for space. to rebuild the city for the fun of it. so many reasons so little zombies

[dcsobral]

8 minutes ago, MarhsMellow said:

Loving A20 so far.

 

There is a bug in the b218, if you increase casino coin stack to beyond 100000, it doesn't save character properly and will quickly lead to your player save being "wiped". Reproduced it 3 times just by increasing stacksize to 100000, restarting, giving myself 100000 and saving/loading a few times.

That's a bug in the mod, not in 7 Days to Die.

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

5 hours ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

 

I get missing building with rebar because rebar frames were metal and could sufficiently bear the weight of the ultimate design. What I don't understand is the complaint about "limited upgrade path progression." First, rebar building was simply frame, concrete, and then steel if necessary. I'm not sure I see the difference between wood frame, wood, cobble, concrete, steel...provided that you enjoyed upgrading blocks. You could even shorten this to cobble, concrete, steel to either reduce upgrade time or help with structural integrity. And so what I don't understand is if you miss upgrading, why isn't building in wood frames and then upgrading sufficient. And if it was something you enjoyed, it's possible that the reduced weight capacity of wood frames would be appealing since you'd have to be more careful with how you upgraded.  

 

 

Then you completely missed the point.

 

Rebar, concrete, and steel were later game luxuries depending how you played, where you invested points, and how much you use the trader.

 

My whole issue is the upgrade path severely limiting the early game, not late game.

[madmole]

14 minutes ago, MarhsMellow said:

Loving A20 so far.

 

There is a bug in the b218, if you increase casino coin stack to beyond 100000, it doesn't save character properly and will quickly lead to your player save being "wiped". Reproduced it 3 times just by increasing stacksize to 100000, restarting, giving myself 100000 and saving/loading a few times.

That's not a bug, you are modding beyond the hard coded limit.

[Callum123456789]

i don't know what really caused it but a few days ago i had a random crash when i was in a city centre like the game out of the blue stopped responding and crashed 5 seconds after its my first crash for this alpha to say its experimental i think its a pretty good result to say i got 40 hours in 

another thing I want to mention is only a minor thing but recently i gone into the new crack a book tower and in certain points since I'm used to the light leading me the right way there are certain parts of the poi that inconsistently do it but i found my way eventually i could've used my auger of course but i wanted to go through the poi how it was intended to.

[MuffinMan]

9 minutes ago, madmole said:

That's not a bug, you are modding beyond the hard coded limit.

It isn't a "hard coded" limit if the stack size is changeable in XML. Any sort of player corruption should be looked into because correctly saving character profiles would be top priority I would think.

[madmole]

6 minutes ago, MarhsMellow said:

It isn't a "hard coded" limit if the stack size is changeable in XML. Any sort of player corruption should be looked into because correctly saving character profiles would be top priority I would think.

You cannot allocate memory in XML so there is a limit to the stack size that is hard coded. We are not responsible for save game corruption once you start modding lol.