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Scyris

Things I like/dislike about a19 from what I seen.

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As I am not a streamer I have not played a19 yet myself, this is observations based on what I've seen so far, and how I feel about it.

 

Likes: New zombies are cool, love the autoshottie, game looks better than it ever has before (Though I don't care about graphics too much). Like some of the new stuff we get to play with. The Candy is awesome, especially as its 5-10min buffs instead of the 2 mins it was supposed to be,.

 

Mixed: Loot progression system, too easy to get tier 6 stuff once it can start dropping, this needs to be made MUCH more rare than it currently is. You should mostly find tier 1-3 items no matter the gamestage, with chance of 4+ super low. Trader is missing the "Pages" for quests so you can go between pages to find quests aross all tiers (I read this was supposed to be in a19), Trader currently completly breaks the loot progression as you can buy t5-6 items from them on day 1 from any tier, its based on rng but still possible. Streamer I watched got a t4 auto shotgun on day 2 or so, from trader, completly skipping most of the shotgun line progression.

 

Dislike: Vechicles use more food then walking... This makes no sense, if its the bicycle I can see but the gas powered ones shouldn't. The Sprained/broken leg thing, You break your leg your pretty much completly fked for 30+ mins when splinted as any running, or jumping adds more to the duration, your forced to walk or you'll never get rid of it, rest of the conditions are fine imo but the splinted/broken leg gone needs some tweaking at least on its duration(s). The fact were getting more OP automated crap like Junk turrets, yet nothing is being done to fix how exploitable they are. For example lower activation distance to 1-2 blocks, so you have to be right by it and STAY by it, for the junk turret to fire, maybe put a 15 second delay to pick it back up, firing it when held stays as is. Junk Drone, Not sure how this thing works but it better use a ton of gas and be very expensive to use to balance how overpowered it'll be always have a portable automated turret following you, not to mention the whole automated junk turret line makes no sense in the game. The reason the automated stuff is OP, is because you can drop it anywhere and pull out another weapon doubling up on the damage being dished out at virtually no cost as the ammo is dirt cheap, maybe add gunpowder to the recipe. If you can't tell I really dislike the junk turrets.

 

Things I hoped for but didn't get: Miner 69'er/motherload combined into 1 perk and lowered to 3-4 ranks, same for the stealth perks (sneak+sneak attack damage bonus). Stats actually doing something other than just headshot damage.

 

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8 minutes ago, Scyris said:

Vechicles use more food then walking...

 

According to TFP it'll be a relatively minor inconvenience. We'll still be swimming in food as always, but probably not until a little bit later on. It won't break the game, I assure you. :)

In fact, to quote somebody from the 7D2D subreddit,

 

"Driving for an hour burns anywhere from 150-250 calories during normal driving conditions, but doing nothing burns 60-130 calories. (for an average weight)

I would say double the calories burned over doing nothing is a bit more than barely anything, and speaking from experience, driving for 8 hours a day makes me much, much, much more hungry than just sitting down at a desk for 8 hours. The forces on the body are subtle, but strong enough to make your body work while you're driving.

 

Fun Fact: An F1 driver can burn 1500 calories in one race, and can lose up to 3 liters of body liquid! The faster you go, the harder the forces are on your body, and the harder your body has to work to stay in place. Of course this is a stretch as normal people would never do this, but I just wanted to include this because a lot of people don't realize how taxing it is on the body; you're not just sitting down, it's a lot more than that."

 

12 minutes ago, Scyris said:

Loot progression system, too easy to get tier 6 stuff once it can start dropping, this needs to be made MUCH more rare than it currently is. You should mostly find tier 1-3 items no matter the gamestage, with chance of 4+ super low.

 

 

A T6 stone shovel is probably only slightly better than a T1 iron shovel, mod slots aside. Like I said above, it's good to have concerns, but as I say to everyone, reserve your full judgement until you have had the opportunity to try it out for yourself for a while. :)

 

13 minutes ago, Scyris said:

(I read this was supposed to be in a19)

 

I don't know where you read that, but it's been known for a while that that feature won't come until A20 at the earliest.

 

13 minutes ago, Scyris said:

Trader currently completly breaks the loot progression as you can buy t5-6 items from them on day 1 from any tier, its based on rng but still possible. Streamer I watched got a t4 auto shotgun on day 2 or so, from trader, completly skipping most of the shotgun line progression.

 

It's been known for a while that traders will break progression in A19 and this will be resolved in a future patch, but probably not until A20. The recent nerf to T1 quests was nice, but as you pointed out, there's still a long way to go. The key here is temptation and overcoming it with self-control. If the trader is selling a T4 pump shotgun on day 5 and you are able to buy it, and you know you should not have that item by that point, then simply ignore it. Heck, even if you see a T1 AK-47 or T1 pistol sold on day 1 and you don't want to butcher progression a little, again, don't purchase it. :)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Scyris said:

Dislike: Vechicles use more food then walking

As always, people leave out that you use zero stamina for walking so any cost for operating a vehicle immediately is an infinite increase.

 

45 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

It's been known for a while that traders will break progression in A19 and this will be resolved in a future patch, but probably not until A20.

Yes but there is no easy way to "fix" trader inventories and we decided to not delay the release over it.

That will take some work...

 

Edited by Gazz (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Scyris said:

The fact were getting more OP automated crap like Junk turrets, yet nothing is being done to fix how exploitable they are. For example lower activation distance to 1-2 blocks, so you have to be right by it and STAY by it, for the junk turret to fire, maybe put a 15 second delay to pick it back up, firing it when held stays as is. Junk Drone, Not sure how this thing works but it better use a ton of gas and be very expensive to use to balance how overpowered it'll be always have a portable automated turret following you, not to mention the whole automated junk turret line makes no sense in the game. The reason the automated stuff is OP, is because you can drop it anywhere and pull out another weapon doubling up on the damage being dished out at virtually no cost as the ammo is dirt cheap, maybe add gunpowder to the recipe. If you can't tell I really dislike the junk turrets.

 

Things I hoped for but didn't get: Miner 69'er/motherload combined into 1 perk and lowered to 3-4 ranks, same for the stealth perks (sneak+sneak attack damage bonus). Stats actually doing something other than just headshot damage.

Lol, we had an in-depth discussion about junk turrets and me trying to explain how they are totally not OP and very situational, did you even read it ? It's like you make a post about your thoughts to be discussed but it seems you actually don't wanna discuss stuff, just express your short-sighted opinion on things you haven't tried out but barely thought of. Write an email to TFP instead ?

 

Miner 69er and Motherlode combined into 1 perk and lowered to 3-4 ranks... I mean... do you even play the game ? Because if anything the 10 points in Miner & Motherlode are a staple for A LOT of people, combining their effects and effectively dividing the points required to max them by 3 is... one of the craziest suggestion i've read on these forums, hands down.

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8 hours ago, Gazz said:

As always, people leave out that you use zero stamina for walking so any cost for operating a vehicle immediately is an infinite increase.

There you go people, straight from the Gazz' mouth: they have increased food requirements to infinity! I've got an extra pitchfork if anybody needs one.

 

But srsly, why zero-cost walking? I'm sure there is a rationale, but I can't come up with a good one myself. Zero-cost standing around I can understand as a kludge to allow for extended journal reading.

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Wont go indepth here mainly cause I dont want to discuss this  endlessly.

 

Havent been playing vanilla for quite some time, From what I've seen so far there is nothing at all to pull me back. Quite the opposite. So to answer herem the game sucks really hard This is not a game I would buy todaym no way in hell. Then again TFP doesnt give a @%$*#! bout me, I've already paid. Time to fool a new lot and then change again. Money talks....

 

 

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2 hours ago, Boidster said:

There you go people, straight from the Gazz' mouth: they have increased food requirements to infinity! I've got an extra pitchfork if anybody needs one.

 

But srsly, why zero-cost walking? I'm sure there is a rationale, but I can't come up with a good one myself. Zero-cost standing around I can understand as a kludge to allow for extended journal reading.

I would think they did it so you wouldn't have to stand still and get hit by zombies if you were running from them and then had run out of stamina. I don't think I would enjoy that. That is my take on it. Not sure what TFP's reason for it is.

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3 hours ago, Boidster said:

There you go people, straight from the Gazz' mouth: they have increased food requirements to infinity! I've got an extra pitchfork if anybody needs one.

 

But srsly, why zero-cost walking? I'm sure there is a rationale, but I can't come up with a good one myself. Zero-cost standing around I can understand as a kludge to allow for extended journal reading.

Here's another fun fact: riding a bicycle and not holding down Shift, uses ZERO stamina. ;)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gamida said:

I would think they did it so you wouldn't have to stand still and get hit by zombies if you were running from them and then had run out of stamina. I don't think I would enjoy that. That is my take on it. Not sure what TFP's reason for it is.

I just realized that Gazz said 'stamina' and we are talking about food consumption/metabolism. I vaguely remember reading that food consumption is directly tied to stamina regeneration. Maybe that is the only mechanism to reduce the food bar: recovering stamina loss.

 

If so, then Gamida I'm sure you're right. Same with the bicycle's 'walk' speed. Any manual locomotion has to have a 'slow' speed where you can recover stamina, and if stamina recovery is the only time the food bar is consumed, then it stands to reason that walking/riding slow = 0 stamina = 0 food loss. And rather than completely rework the food drain system to decouple it from stamina, they just plugged a hole with the motorized vehicles.

 

An alternate is to have a base food drain just from being alive and standing there (maybe with a first-5-levels suppression for n00bs to read the help text). Stamina recovery would be on top of the base food drain. That would cover all vehicles and all speeds. Easier said than done I'm sure.

 

Edited by Boidster (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Boidster said:

Any manual locomotion has to have a 'slow' speed where you can recover stamina, and if stamina recovery is the only time the food bar is consumed

I always assumed that while walking the stamina regeneration is just higher than your stamina usage but the usage is not zero. So even if your stamina keeps filling up you are still using stamina all the time (and therefore also consume food). In other words, stamina also would recreate faster while standing then when walking.

Edited by Liesel Weppen (see edit history)

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12 hours ago, Boidster said:

I just realized that Gazz said 'stamina' and we are talking about food consumption/metabolism. I vaguely remember reading that food consumption is directly tied to stamina regeneration. Maybe that is the only mechanism to reduce the food bar: recovering stamina loss.

 

If so, then Gamida I'm sure you're right. Same with the bicycle's 'walk' speed. Any manual locomotion has to have a 'slow' speed where you can recover stamina, and if stamina recovery is the only time the food bar is consumed, then it stands to reason that walking/riding slow = 0 stamina = 0 food loss. And rather than completely rework the food drain system to decouple it from stamina, they just plugged a hole with the motorized vehicles.

 

An alternate is to have a base food drain just from being alive and standing there (maybe with a first-5-levels suppression for n00bs to read the help text). Stamina recovery would be on top of the base food drain. That would cover all vehicles and all speeds. Easier said than done I'm sure.

 

Also just a guess :) but am thinking too that there is some base drain of food. Would be odd to be able to just be able to stand in one spot for hours (days) and not have food go down. I know it is not like in real life but in real life we do burn quite a few calories even when doing nothing. Anyway, it is what it is lol.

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- From what I've seen streamed, I mostly like the new textures.  I'll know more when I'm in the game.  It's clear a lot of work has been done in this area.

- I can get used to most game mechanics.  It's the apocalypse, I don't get to chose, I just get to try and survive.  :)

- I strongly dislike having an icon bouncing around on the screen for a tracked quest.  I am quite able to figure out direction from looking at an icon on the compass.  This new intrusion doesn't provide any new info, just detracts from the graphical realism.  Along the same lines, I find the buried treasure big yellow circle annoying.  Again, no new info just detracts from graphics.  I wouldn't want to have these removed for the people who like it, but I hope both of these are able to be turned off.

-I'm sure I'll have more opinions when I can actually play the game - for instance, you know the first thing I will do will be to see if my character's red hair stays correct when she puts any headgear on.  Alpha 16.4 is the last alpha where this worked correctly - since then it has always defaulted to black.

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Posted (edited)

Dear Fun Pimps,

I have to strongly agree with gwensparkle. The new sprites for items on the map, quests, hidden chests etc. really bring the realism down. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand it's a game and it's not supposed to be totally realistic. But let's be honest - you guys have spent countless of hours, working your asses off really hard, to bring us the new HD zombies, POIs etc., to make the game more appealing to us players and, well, more realistic obviously. You really did an amazing job, I love the new textures. But the sprites then hit the whole realistic concept pretty hard in the nuts, since to me (and probably to a lot of other people as well) it makes the game feel more child-oriented like.

 

Now, I understand you can turn off these sprites in the xml file or files. What I suggest is (and I believe this is a pretty elegant solution to go with) to make the sprites toggleable. Either in the options menu of the game, under controls, or even better - binding a key for toggling the sprites on/off. That way, us, who prefer the realism, can easily toggle them off, whereas the rest, who need more help with finding lost spears, vehicles, exact quest locations etc. can easily toggle them on. I kinda prefer the key-binding for toggling the sprites on/off. That's probably not too hard to code, I believe? You guys are professionals, I'm sure you can take care of that easily. :)

 

Thank you for reading this and trying to understand my point, I really appreciate it. 

 

Much respect to you all,

 

Kyrcorr

Edited by Kyrcorr (see edit history)
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do you by any chance know exactly what steps we need to take to turn these annoying things off?

 

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Feels like they reduced the storage capacity of the wooden chest.  About the only thing that I really actually HATE about 19 - the game is a pain in the @%$*#! enough for inventory and organization management.  There is no need to make it worse.  Feels like A17.1 stamina is back too.

 

The new head tracking for zombies is pretty cool but the animations are not really worked out right - they look kind of funny when the body is performing an animation but the head is utterly unaffected.  The new graphics are way better overall.  

 

Was hoping for more changes in the perk system.  Have not got a chance to try out some of the new equipment yet and am really looking forward to that - more crap is never a bad thing :D

 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, FA_Q2 said:

Feels like they reduced the storage capacity of the wooden chest.  About the only thing that I really actually HATE about 19 - the game is a pain in the @%$*#! enough for inventory and organization management.  There is no need to make it worse.  Feels like A17.1 stamina is back too.

 

It's not just a feeling - the small wooden chest holds less now. BUT I seem to loot enough nails that by the time I'm ready to hole up some where for a while, I can make a larger storage box or two so the pain was temporary.

 

The stamina feels as bad as it looks. I'm adjusting to it but I'm breathing heavy a lot from running out and also burning through a ton of food in the process. I'm hoping things will get better as I progress in a save far enough to invest into stamina perks a bit.

Edited by Mahnogard
added a sentence (see edit history)

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10 hours ago, Abbii said:

do you by any chance know exactly what steps we need to take to turn these annoying things off?

 

Sadly, no. And I won't be messing with files for another week or so, until the version goes stable. I only work with stable versions. I'm sure someone will post a guide here on how to do it, if not, I'll make sure to post it myself, once I get the stable version.

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2 hours ago, Mahnogard said:

It's not just a feeling - the small wooden chest holds less now. BUT I seem to loot enough nails that by the time I'm ready to hole up some where for a while, I can make a larger storage box or two so the pain was temporary.

 

The stamina feels as bad as it looks. I'm adjusting to it but I'm breathing heavy a lot from running out and also burning through a ton of food in the process. I'm hoping things will get better as I progress in a save far enough to invest into stamina perks a bit.

I don't mind the food use, food has never been a problem for me in 7dtd, not even when I was a complete new player, I do however hate the fact that using a tool early game for more than a few swings completly drains my stamina and then I have to sit there waiting for it to regen. You really feel the drain once you hit iron tools.

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14 hours ago, Mahnogard said:

It's not just a feeling - the small wooden chest holds less now. BUT I seem to loot enough nails that by the time I'm ready to hole up some where for a while, I can make a larger storage box or two so the pain was temporary.

 

The stamina feels as bad as it looks. I'm adjusting to it but I'm breathing heavy a lot from running out and also burning through a ton of food in the process. I'm hoping things will get better as I progress in a save far enough to invest into stamina perks a bit.

I am rather surprised they went this way with the stamina.  This is exactly what they did in 17 and that turned out as a bad enough move they scaled it WAY back.  

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The stamina drain rate is super-annoying, but then it is only Day 2 and I have incentive to perk into stamina, or start eating stamina-boosting foods. I just wish I didn't have to take a break every 2 or 3 dirt blocks when digging for treasure. I am trying to be aware of confirmation bias in my evaluation of A19 since I'm coming from a mid-game A18 world where I had a few max-level perks and level 6 T3 weapons and tools. Everything sucks in A19, but I have to remember I'm a n00b again.

 

Hey, birds' nests seem to have made a comeback! And the club is much more effective than I recall. I can 3-hit most zombies with just a level 2 wooden club. It's pretty satisfying.

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Day 1 experience. 
(1) it seems like anything can infect you, and once you have a 0.1 infection, it will keep creeping up until you die. I may have picked it up from a boar. Not sure. Anyways  it's just easier to eat glass, as I'm not likely to find honey/antibiotics day 1 and I'd rather deal with xp penalties than not playing the game due to stamina drain.  Plus dying will save me food. So i"m just planning to eat some glass come morning of day 2. 

 

(2) Related to 1, Wrench a toilet twice, check the forums. Wrench twice. Check the forums. I get that being at 50% food and 15.7% infection is supposed to be bad, but but short of never getting hit at all day 1 (which . . . I could probably do if my keyboard wasn't lagging, I'm sure it's a windows issue, since if I switch to the 1080p monitor there's no issue). And the game stops being fun at 50% food, it seems, so I don't care about starving, I don't plan to live that long. I care about keeping my food topped up completely. Anything less than that is failure.

 

Of course, I do not play iron man, in fact, if I go too long without dying, I turn up the difficulty. I firmly believe that if I don't die once every week or two, the game gets boring. :-D. So I am a lot less hesitant about jumping off the roof than maybe I should be. 

 

Although thinking through what I wrote, I'm now terrified they'll make the dying penalty worse, and it will be back to if you die, just go play another game for half an hour. Unfortunately, the penalty being the game is not fun is a hard thing to balance, which is what all these mechanics kind of do. Your stamina drain is slower and therefore you spend a lot more time watching Youtube while playing.  I have no solutions, but this was my day 1 experience. 

 

Game looks great. Love the new lighting. Zombies are creepier. Of course, I don't think the part where their entire body spins 360 degrees when you hit them but the head never stops looking at you is intentional, but it was creepy. 

Although . . . was the blood always this cheesy? It's like super bright red, like bright red paint when you hit the zombie. The super realistic/gory zombies and the cartoon bright red blood has thrown me off a couple times. 


 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Wit said:

Day 1 experience. 
(1) it seems like anything can infect you, and once you have a 0.1 infection, it will keep creeping up until you die. I may have picked it up from a boar. Not sure. Anyways  it's just easier to eat glass, as I'm not likely to find honey/antibiotics day 1 and I'd rather deal with xp penalties than not playing the game due to stamina drain.  Plus dying will save me food. So i"m just planning to eat some glass come morning of day 2. 

 

(2) Related to 1, Wrench a toilet twice, check the forums. Wrench twice. Check the forums. I get that being at 50% food and 15.7% infection is supposed to be bad, but but short of never getting hit at all day 1 (which . . . I could probably do if my keyboard wasn't lagging, I'm sure it's a windows issue, since if I switch to the 1080p monitor there's no issue). And the game stops being fun at 50% food, it seems, so I don't care about starving, I don't plan to live that long. I care about keeping my food topped up completely. Anything less than that is failure.

 

Of course, I do not play iron man, in fact, if I go too long without dying, I turn up the difficulty. I firmly believe that if I don't die once every week or two, the game gets boring. :-D. So I am a lot less hesitant about jumping off the roof than maybe I should be. 

 

Although thinking through what I wrote, I'm now terrified they'll make the dying penalty worse, and it will be back to if you die, just go play another game for half an hour. Unfortunately, the penalty being the game is not fun is a hard thing to balance, which is what all these mechanics kind of do. Your stamina drain is slower and therefore you spend a lot more time watching Youtube while playing.  I have no solutions, but this was my day 1 experience. 

Not gonna lie, from the looks of it you should probably play something else. Not hating or anything, but you're playing a survival game with a strong emphasis on character progression, and you somehow prefer dying over finding cures to your diseases and want instant gratification on Day 1. Doesn't sound like the game fits your gameplay style, but that's just my opinion.

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12 hours ago, Wit said:

(1) it seems like anything can infect you, and once you have a 0.1 infection, it will keep creeping up until you die. I may have picked it up from a boar. Not sure. Anyways  it's just easier to eat glass, as I'm not likely to find honey/antibiotics day 1 and I'd rather deal with xp penalties than not playing the game due to stamina drain.  Plus dying will save me food. So i"m just planning to eat some glass come morning of day 2. 

Remind me not to party up with you in case of a real zombie apocalypse! 🙂

 

Have you looked into - and I say this with all due respect to your eating glass strategy - just eating honey to cure the infection? It's easily obtainable and even counts as a little bit of food.

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Posted (edited)

Every problem in game is solvable through looting, crafting, or percussive learning.  So, all this fatalism is the result of poor RNG, if you ask me.

 

Edited by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

I mean with 1500 hours in since Alpha 6 or so, I still play other games too. But I would rather not skip this alpha!

 

This was all my subjective feelings after day 1.

 

Did not find any honey by nightfall, and given how bad my stamina already is I could go look for honey at night in the woods and that will likely achieve the same thing as jumping off the roof. Unfortunately no meds at the trader, the vending machine, the two pois I looted or the several stumps I cut open day 1. And yes upping all the zombies to either run or jog in the daytime was my own fault, but like I said I like the zombies to have some minor chance to hurt me but do not like the high hp on the highest diffculty settings so I am only up a notch or two from default, and not going to mod an experimental. Normally I halve hp, play max difficulty (so zombies do a ton of damage, but have nomad ish hp) and do jog or run in daylight so I die when I get too aggressive or make mistakes.

 

I was surprised that at 50% health and 15% infection I was actually afking while wrenching at night due to how slow the regen was. Now maybe this is a wrench thing but everything felt kind of sluggish.  I don't mind getting killed by the infection, but the stamina penalty was unfun. Would rather the infection just increased 4-8 times as fast and killed you rather than added stamina drain this bad, and that food penalties triggered at 25% than 50%. I like getting food being hard but needing to stay over 80% all the time feels a bit tedious. Just my preference for enjoying the game.

 

I am just one of those folks who would rather have tools be half as effective then spend more than half my time waiting for stamina regen. 

 

Nowhere did I ever say this was a bad game, but this is my honest reaction to a19 coming from a18. The infection compounded with everything to make for an experience I was not enjoying at midnight compared to a18 day 1. Maybe I am imagining things but I recall in a18 antibiotics and honey being rare and valuable enough I saved them and was happy to find them. So I don't think I can just plan to guaranteed be able to find them in the morning by just wandering through the woods for an hour or two. So I have to assume I might be suffering these stam panalties for at least a day, not worth it.  

 

 If death were as bad as it used to be I would probably have cheated and just spawned some honey and thrown away the next 2 I found, but I hate cheating, it tends to take the fun out for me. But I long ago decided I would rather spawn in a splint than limp for 30 minutes back to my base where I had the material for 30 splints on hand because I did not like wasting an inventory slot on something I used once every 30 days. Although there I at least made and destroyed 5 splints for every one I spawned in, so at least I paid for it later. Kind of a rich man's inventory slot?

 

Again never said it was a bad game or choice, this is just my experience on Day 1 so far for feedback.

 

Edit: well and I have also started buying. a copy of the game for any friend who adds me to their steam friends list, so I don't want that to be their first day experience, hoping to hook someone on this game!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Wit (see edit history)

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