To Mod or not to Mod: Why is it even a question?

[Ti2xGr]

I fought the urge for mods until A17. Got my first taste of Valmod and swore I didn't need any more mods. On A18, we're up to 27 modlets, most of them tweaked a bit to blend into the vanilla feel. Had to fix a few of them or add a line of code. Learned to edit out or nerf modlets that were too OP. Love the User POI's in Compopack. More zombies, a few more weapons, more animals, lots more decor and a variety of decor for late game stages when I am looking to expand my base, but don't need to.

 

I try and just add what doesn't throw the balance out of wack. I had to go through quite a few recipes for foods I added through a couple of modlets and adjust their effects and ingredients. I keep thinking I'm done, but I just tweaked a few modlets yesterday to allow for repair of traps that were added in by a modlet. It is surprisingly easy to add them which I find enjoyable and the more I play around with them, the more I enjoy them.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Xtrakicking said:

I would've voted for the first option, if it weren't for the last statement. I love mods, and I think it's great that even someone as unskilled in programming as me can make mods for other users to play with.

 

That being said, I wouldn't say that mods are the lifeblood of the game's ongoing future, cause that to me sounds like mods are the only thing that will keep the game afloat or interesting as time goes by, which isn't really true imo. While it's true that mods will definitely contribute to the replayability of the game, I think the game has enough content and replayability value in its vanilla version to be perfectly enjoyable without mods.

 

If I use mods, it's mainly cause there are some aspects of the game I dislike, and would rather change them to my liking; or that I want to try different experiences after so many hours of intended gameplay. However, I do think the vanilla version stands on itself just fine.

Think of it as the far future then. At some point TFP is going to move on. They've stated they plan to continue to support the game with content for about 2 years after gold but beyond that there is no promise. If TFP stops adding new content in 2023 but modding continues to keep the game going for another several years then that is what I meant by the lifeblood of the future. 

[12pack]

a couple of shekels to toss into this fountain for some homeless person to come by and fish out later..

When a new version, Alpha, comes out, I will play vanilla for a while... to see how it plays, and get an idea for what i like, and what i don't,

then I start to play around with modifying things..

It's just one (of many) great things about this game, if you want to.. you can.

If not.. don't.

[Laz Man]

I voted the 2nd option.  I think mods can be fun and can extend the life of a game but never see them as a competition with the base game.  In most cases modders  wont have the same tools or experience as the developers themselves.

[xglossy]

I vote the secon choice, but I don´t know if still I need to post

[rosedragon]

I usually mod when I already feel I have beat most of the game mechanics (this doesn't mean beating the game, just have extended understanding and starts feeling it is all a chore). For 7 days, I select just mod a little, I just want a world with more POIs.

[grieferbastard]

I mod most games.

 

However, I really haven't in 7dtd because it updates and those updates have changed a lot. I'd likely have to meddle with mods a bunch.

 

I have no moral objection to mods - I've got close to 2K hours in Skyrim (across standard, enhanced and VR versions) and usually play with 200 or so mods. I usually mod most games.

 

In this game though I haven't really so far. Just a combo of it being early development and mods are more likely to cause me trouble and also the game itself has matched what I'm looking for well enough I haven't felt the need.

For Guppycur;

 

Some people don't mod because they don't see the value vs the effort in it. Also the 'slippery slope' issue. Once you start making changes you can easily end up removing the difficulty. It's not so much about 'will you' as 'can you'. If someone never pops the cork on changing the game that question never comes up. For some people that's far more of a source of enjoyment than anything mods would add.

[hiemfire]

I don't have an issue with mods or modding, I just don't feel like adding mods to my install right now. Maybe when it is done being updated, maybe before. Definitely not without consulting and discussing with those I play the game with.

[Banginurz]

I was the fella that voted to say I would use them if I could figure it out, but then I figured it out.  All I have used is the Compopak for new POIs, but I'm loving it.  Getting to explore new things created by modders/fans of the game has really resparked my interest!

 

Edit: Thanks to all the folks who take the time to make these mods.  Very cool of you folks.

 

[Sawth77]

I've used the Nitrogen mod a couple of times when the random maps were (more?) broken...but even then I didn't really want to do it.  As of the last few months and all, I've stopped doing even that.

Maybe for some folks who don't want to use mods, it's not a lack of desire to play with new things added in after the fact.  I think it comes down to people wanting the devs themselves to add the functionality, rather than rely on what is essentially strangers on the internet.  At least for me, there's a difference between TFP adding something to the game, and (insert random person here) making a mod for it.  Consider it a trust issue, if nothing else.

I don't mind if people use mods, as long as it doesn't break the experience someone else is having or function as a cheat that someone can use in an MP setting (as an example).  I'm just infinitely more comfortable with the devs folding those changes in organically, rather than having to rely on the modding community to get it done.

 

[Ti2xGr]

45 minutes ago, Sawth77 said:

I've used the Nitrogen mod a couple of times when the random maps were (more?) broken...but even then I didn't really want to do it.  As of the last few months and all, I've stopped doing even that.

Maybe for some folks who don't want to use mods, it's not a lack of desire to play with new things added in after the fact.  I think it comes down to people wanting the devs themselves to add the functionality, rather than rely on what is essentially strangers on the internet.  At least for me, there's a difference between TFP adding something to the game, and (insert random person here) making a mod for it.  Consider it a trust issue, if nothing else.

I don't mind if people use mods, as long as it doesn't break the experience someone else is having or function as a cheat that someone can use in an MP setting (as an example).  I'm just infinitely more comfortable with the devs folding those changes in organically, rather than having to rely on the modding community to get it done.

 

I completely understand your point and respect it. I've spent many hours adjusting modlets, repairing missing features, and just having to learn how they work in order to keep balance within our map. Add a food modlet and all of sudden, you're swimming in too much food. Add a weapon pack and everything becomes a one hit kill. I've got a pretty darn balanced server at this point (IMHO), but I'm still going back through some of our modlets to tweak settings to make it more vanilla and I'm having to learn as I go. It makes me really appreciate the Fun Pimps more and the modlet makers are amazing. Most of these modlets are pieces of art in my opinion. 

[Guppycur]

After reading some of the "why I don't mod" comments, I'm even more convinced one of the main reasons people don't mod is simple lack of understanding... 

 

Again, not an insult, but it tells me that we as modders need to work some to better educate the masses. 

 

 

[Styx7x]

Currently sitting with 51 modlets on a nitrogen created map. Sometimes I just disagree with TFP's visions ala LBD, other times I'm adding zombie clones and only changing their walk style for variety. Can't go back to vanilla, IMO, there's just no reason to delete my mods folder. 

[unholyjoe]

1 hour ago, Guppycur said:

After reading some of the "why I don't mod" comments, I'm even more convinced one of the main reasons people don't mod is simple lack of understanding... 

 

Again, not an insult, but it tells me that we as modders need to work some to better educate the masses. 

 

 

so educate me and TRY to convince me i HAVE to mod or USE mods.

 

Spoiler

you will loose

 

[Guppycur]

Lose.

 

But this is where you miss the point entirely.  I don't care if you use mods, and I've zero interest in making you want to.

 

I simply want to understand the mentality that is "I will never under any circumstances".

 

...applies to life itself, not just mods.  Seems willfully stubborn. 

[Guppycur]

So to the others who are not being willfully stubborn, if modding isn't something you'd consider because of say, balance, well then you are in total charge of that balance.  That's the beauty of mods and especially modlets.  You decide what's balanced, but for YOUR playstyle.  Want fire breathing electric zombies to use your napalm gun on?  Install those mods.  Don't?  Then don't. 

 

There is no magic balance formula.  Tfp certainly doesn't have the magic formula either, nor do they claim to, which accounts for the constant changes in balances between alphas and builds. 

 

If modding isn't for you because you fear for the safety of your computer (someone mentioned that, right?) then why install anything.  I can guarantee "professional" software developers are gathering more information on you than any mod will... Especially since unless it's a mod that adds code (dmt/sdx mods), mods *can't* gather info.  Mods are safe, folks. 

 

For those that want to only play the "dev vision of the game", I'd say you're also being willfully stubborn and also that uh, the dev vision *includes you using mods* so not much of good reasoning to be found there.

 

For those of you unaware of how to mod and simply think it'll break your game... Well, this is the only good argument against modding.  Mods can break save games, can be difficult to install and more difficult to fix.  For that I can only reiterate Roland's point that there are resources out there to make it easier for you and to help you.

 

Most people who release mods provide their own customer support.  

 

But the bottom line is the dev diary is filled with requests for this and that.  Those requests have long since been in the game, via mods.

 

From fishing to boats, hangliders to hellcats, there are scores of new vehicles.  Want guns?  We have all of them.  All. Of. Them.  Bigger backpacks?  Done.  Food and health bars, something tfp can't seem to decide on?  Done.  More quests, more pois, less dungeons, more dungeons... Zombie variety, zombie bosses, check.  Better looking textures, done.  From Lbd to character classes.  Bigger maps, smaller maps.  Longer beginning game to faster leveling.  Npc followers, bandits, drones, pretty much everything on the tfp roadmap... Done. 

 

If you can imagine it, there's probably a mod for it.  And if not, there's probably a modder willing to make it.

[Tin]

2 hours ago, unholyjoe said:

so educate me and TRY to convince me i HAVE to mod or USE mods.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

you will loose

 

🙄 Who ever said you "Have" to use mods. Can you link that post? 

edit: obviously with your reaction, you can't.

edit2: At least be legit, when you are trying to start crap.

[hiemfire]

@Guppycur You seem awfully curious/frustrated about something that can be summed up by simple disinterest and are getting pretty insulting in how you're approaching it.

[Boidster]

Normally I'd say, "mods aren't going to sleep with you", but since you have literally* given birth to several mods I guess that doesn't really apply. 🙂

 

The only place where your persuasion falls apart is here:

1 hour ago, Guppycur said:

For those that want to only play the "dev vision of the game", I'd say you're also being willfully stubborn and also that uh, the dev vision *includes you using mods* so not much of good reasoning to be found there.

This contradicts your initial "play how ya wanna play" position (a good position IMO) and reads as "stop not doing what I do". It's not willfully stubborn to play the game the way the devs built it, even if the devs enthusiastically support modifications. Some people just wanna play that way. Let them, and do not call them stubborn.

 

I personally love mods. In fact I recently won a million bucks in a lottery so I'm going to have two mods at the same time.

 

* By which I mean 'figuratively'

 

[Kraxin]

I voted:

 

I am unwilling to mod my game until the final version is released and workshop support is added. Then I might try out some mods.

 

I've kept track of a lot of mods out there for many years and not a single one of them is something I am willing to try yet due to too many tedious stuff loaded down in them I find aggravating. I can see myself using some modlets after game goes gold or even try one of the big mods but in their current state, not going to happen with me personally.

 

I've been playing since the alpha 5 if that matters any (around the end of alpha 5).

[Guppycur]

37 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

@Guppycur You seem awfully curious/frustrated about something that can be summed up by simple disinterest and are getting pretty insulting in how you're approaching it.

How am I getting insulting?  And hey, I'm not the one who perpetuated this conversation.  There's a poll and a discussion and I'm participating in it.  What's your value add other than to allude to some frustration that doesn't exist or insults that also don't exist?

 

Either participate or don't.  (Shrug) 

39 minutes ago, Boidster said:

Normally I'd say, "mods aren't going to sleep with you", but since you have literally* given birth to several mods I guess that doesn't really apply. 🙂

 

The only place where your persuasion falls apart is here:

This contradicts your initial "play how ya wanna play" position (a good position IMO) and reads as "stop not doing what I do". It's not willfully stubborn to play the game the way the devs built it, even if the devs enthusiastically support modifications. Some people just wanna play that way. Let them, and do not call them stubborn.

 

I personally love mods. In fact I recently won a million bucks in a lottery so I'm going to have two mods at the same time.

 

* By which I mean 'figuratively'

 

The stubbornness is in absolute refusal to try something new without a decent explanation as to why.  If people want to only play vanilla, that's fine with me, I'd just like to understand *why*.  It doesn't compile in my head, and I'm a curious person.

 

if people don't want to say why (their right, idc) then why participate in a convo about why? 

 

These things make me curious. 

[hiemfire]

1 minute ago, Guppycur said:

How am I getting insulting?  And hey, I'm not the one who perpetuated this conversation.  There's a poll and a discussion and I'm participating in it.  What's your value add other than to allude to some frustration that doesn't exist or insults that also don't exist?

 

Either participate or don't.  (Shrug) 

@Boidster puts it best, 2 posts above the one I'm quoting.

[Guppycur]

25 minutes ago, Kraxin said:

I voted:

 

I am unwilling to mod my game until the final version is released and workshop support is added. Then I might try out some mods.

 

I've kept track of a lot of mods out there for many years and not a single one of them is something I am willing to try yet due to too many tedious stuff loaded down in them I find aggravating. I can see myself using some modlets after game goes gold or even try one of the big mods but in their current state, not going to happen with me personally.

 

I've been playing since the alpha 5 if that matters any (around the end of alpha 5).

See?  A reason.  I can accept this.  I don't agree, but I also don't have to, but I can accept it.  He's/she's not closing the possibility with a "never".  

1 minute ago, hiemfire said:

@Boidster puts it best, 2 posts above the one I'm quoting.

Then my answer to that should satisfy you as well. (Shrug) 

Wait... Is it *really* the word "stubborn" that is giving you fits?  

 

...does this not fit what we are talking about? 

 

having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, especially in spite of good arguments or reasons to do so.

 

...do you realize nothing in that definition is insulting?  N.o.t.h.i.n.g.  

 

If you feel insulted then that's a good indicator you know being stubborn about this subject is wrong... I mean, I'm stubborn in that I'll never eat oysters, but I don't feel shame about being stubborn about it, so wouldn't be offended if someone called me stubborn... 

 

Neat, even more fascinating behavior. 

[Xtrakicking]

2 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Lose.

 

But this is where you miss the point entirely.  I don't care if you use mods, and I've zero interest in making you want to.

 

I simply want to understand the mentality that is "I will never under any circumstances".

 

...applies to life itself, not just mods.  Seems willfully stubborn. 

Honestly, I think most people that never do mods are just folks who aren't interested. I don't think it's a matter of never doing it under any circumstances for a higher reason, but just sheer indifference towards it. In other words, I don't think there exists people that would never ever use mods at all in any scenario. The ones who don't would probably do it given enough devotion to the game. In reality, though, they just can't be bothered.

[Guppycur]

I'd agree, but what sparked this is Joe's "never will".  (Shrug)