Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Pegasus said:

But remember this ... your beloved motorcycle or gyrocopter will also become useless under this new system.  Madmole said that it's all or nothing.  Do you really want to have to rebuild your transportation from scratch every few game days?

 

Every few game days? No. But, maybe once or twice during an entire game? Sure. It's fun to search out the parts. Maybe if you see another one at a trader you'll buy it up as a spare which you would never do now. Nobody who wants degradation is asking for it to be like the hunger mechanic. The fact that you have to cast it in that light in order to make it seem bad shows that as a concept it isn't really that bad. 

 

My question was why didn't you ask if people want to rebuild every few game hours? Too far? Too obvious?

2 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

Does that mean we can get gun and armor racks for our bases to showcase awesome stuff we have for the trophies 😃

Absolutely. They will just look like secure wooden chests.

[Pegasus]

7 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

no drugs, just seeking some new game mechanics, the items now have become bland to me, without the need to constantly go out and find more it makes end game not really last long right now, i want a reason to keep looting, i want a reason to keep going out there

 

like how i mentioned sandstorms in the desert that could cause damage to bases and such, shot down for annoyance

crops sometimes rotting if u dont harvest right away, shot down too

these things would add new levels to the game that makes people think instead of following the same patterns over and over again, hell i suggested earthquakes that could change the terrain on a map and keep the map alive

 

im just trying to think of things that can be fun with what we have now

 

And my point was that there are ways for you to have that without them having to rewrite the vanilla game again.

 

There are mods that increase difficulty like this exponentially.  Explore the mods.

 

You can also self impose restrictions on yourself.  There's no reason why you can't play your game with the understanding that when something breaks you don't repair it, you scrap it and get a new one.  You can harvest your crops and throw half your harvest away saying that it was spoiled when you inspected it.  Heck, you can even destroy half your base and say an earthquake did it.

 

You are asking for the devs to do things that players and modders can do themselves.  There's no reason to rewrite the game mechanics and further delay game releases.

[Phoenixshade35]

Just now, Pegasus said:

And my point was that there are ways for you to have that without them having to rewrite the vanilla game again.

 

There are mods that increase difficulty like this exponentially.  Explore the mods.

 

You can also self impose restrictions on yourself.  There's no reason why you can't play your game with the understanding that when something breaks you don't repair it, you scrap it and get a new one.  You can harvest your crops and throw half your harvest away saying that it was spoiled when you inspected it.  Heck, you can even destroy half your base and say an earthquake did it.

 

You are asking for the devs to do things that players and modders can do themselves.  There's no reason to rewrite the game mechanics and further delay game releases.

for starters i hate modding, lol never been my thing

and for another there is never anything wrong with bringing stuff up, talking about, seeing what people think constructively and maybe coming to new ideas, it never hurts to discuss stuff and u never know what you can think of with enough discussion, i like to think of the forum as an idea pool, where we can discuss stuff and see what happens.

you sound like you dont want anything new added, it almost hurts to see

oh and @Roland you tease, but i would love to be able to build the weapon and accessory racks for the wall in my house, i love how they look when looting them lol

[Roland]

15 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

It is a fact ... item degredation upon repair was previously part of the game. It was removed partly because people complained that it was ruining their high quality weapons and tools and partly because TFP felt that a different route for the weapons and tools would better fit their game design.

False. It was removed because it no longer worked with mod slots. Just like digging was removed because it wasn't working properly but made a return once they were able to get it the way they liked. Item degradation could make a return if they ignore quality loss and simply make it be a function of how many times something can be repaired. I can tell you that when they made the switch from assembling weapons that stretched in quality from 1-600 to doing weapon mod slots with quality from 1-6 there was not one peep at the dev table about whether degradation was hated or not. That's because there was very little talk about item degradation. It definitely wasn't a hot topic of the time. Even now it seems it is about equally supported and disliked.

[Pegasus]

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Every few game days? No. But, maybe once or twice during an entire game? Sure. It's fun to search out the parts. Maybe if you see another one at a trader you'll buy it up as a spare which you would never do now. Nobody who wants degradation is asking for it to be like the hunger mechanic. The fact that you have to cast it in that light in order to make it seem bad shows that as a concept it isn't really that bad. 

 

My question was why didn't you ask if people want to rebuild every few game hours? Too far? Too obvious?

 

Okay, but just because you're not asking for it doesn't mean that it's not going to be the final mechanic, now does it?  If implemented it would make sense that degredation of vehicles would occur based on amount of use ... so after you run back and forth to your hunting/looting grounds and your base a few times a day then the vehicle will probably require repairs.  If it loses overall durability each time it is repaired, or can only be repaired x number of times before it is no longer repairable ... then depending on how much you use it, it could be every few days.

 

I am not trying to cast anything in any kind of light.  I am opposed to the idea, it didn't work well before and I don't see how it can work well now.  Nothing has been fleshed out to say how it would work, so all I have to model it on is past instances of this same mechanic.

 

Since you are obviously more in touch with the devs than I am, perhaps you have an inside scoop that gives you insight into how it would be implemented that hasn't been shared yet.

 

And I didn't ask if people wanted to rebuild every few game hours because the discussion was regarding weapons, tools, armor and vehicles. There was no discussion about building blocks degrading with repair. Are you suggesting that the building blocks should also stop being repairable? And that bases should just collapse at some point?  

[Phoenixshade35]

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

False. It was removed because it no longer worked with mod slots. Just like digging was removed because it wasn't working properly but made a return once they were able to get it the way they liked. Item degradation could make a return if they ignore quality loss and simply make it be a function of how many times something can be repaired. I can tell you that when they made the switch from assembling weapons that stretched in quality from 1-600 to doing weapon mod slots with quality from 1-6 there was not one peep at the dev table about whether degradation was hated or not. That's because there was very little talk about item degradation. It definitely wasn't a hot topic of the time. Even now it seems it is about equally supported and disliked.

oh ok, my bad lol, this is why i like reading your responses, you bring reason to the table, mod slots makes sense lol.

at least degredation isnt completely hated lol

[Pegasus]

Well, the bottom line is that TFP will do what they think is best.

 

Since expressing my dislike for the idea is not allowed, I will now say that item degredation is awesome and should be implemented immediately if not sooner. 

[n2n1]

4 minutes ago, Roland said:

..... It was removed because it no longer worked with mod slots....

I'm sure that was the real and only reason for removing the degradation... and not what MM said . As always.

[MechanicalLens]

2 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

Well, the bottom line is that TFP will do what they think is best.

 

Since expressing my dislike for the idea is not allowed, I will now say that item degredation is awesome and should be implemented immediately if not sooner. 

Excellent! Your social credit has just risen!

[pregnable]

21 minutes ago, Roland said:

First of all, the forum has never been in charge of balance. People like to blame "ouspoken minorities" on the forum for a change they don't agree with-- probably in some thin attempt to appear loyal to the developers themselves. There is only and has only ever been one group in charge of balance and that is the development team. If they made a change that went along with the sentiment of the forum then it was something they discussed in house and decided upon as well. Sometimes there have been reactions by the developers in response to overwhelming negative feedback but there was never an era or "the days" when all the devs did was follow however the forum sentiments blew. We'd still be kneedeep in LBD if that were true.

 

Secondly, there is no reason why degradation has to involve a loss of quality or modslots. All it has to be is a number of repairs possible until the item can no longer be repaired. Then it can be scrapped for parts. I'm all for simple and streamlined. No complication with mod slots, no changing colors, just a finite number of repairs. Easy-Peasy.

 

For those of you who never use stuff that degrades you could use it up until it's last repair and then keep it as a trophy forever. That way you would get some use out of it AND always have it around to look at.

 

Okay, Gazz made all the weapons terrible, lol... and they stayed that way until Madmole got involved. 

 

I remember when MM made a video and was going to get a shotgun and use it on a zombie, acting excited, and I laughed out loud because it was obvious he did not realize that all guns were trash. 

 

Then he shot it and it did like nothing and he was like "uhh... wut"... then not too long after that the weapons got balanced to where they actually did damage again.  

 

 

The game does not need a loot treadmill to solve an endgame problem when the endgame is not finished and the problem does not really exist in the first place. 

 

But nah, if the weapons and item degrading every get like they were before, I would probably just not play as much, or play something else, like I did before.

[Phoenixshade35]

2 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

Well, the bottom line is that TFP will do what they think is best.

 

Since expressing my dislike for the idea is not allowed, I will now say that item degredation is awesome and should be implemented immediately if not sooner. 

no one said expressing your dislike is not allowed, but i was hoping for more constructive arguments instead of a flat hate for it, thats all

[Demandred1957]

26 minutes ago, Vechs said:

Actually, I am reminded of an old Japanese belief, that when a tool turned 100 years old, it gained a spirit.  Japan has very limited natural resources, and that permeated their culture (nail-free construction, metalwork that made the best of what metal was around) and so they treasured well made, long-lasted items, and cared for them.

 

How is this for an idea:  The longer you use an item, the BETTER it gets.

 

Maybe this could be a book capstone or a skill, that whenever you repair an item with 0 durability, there's a chance for it to jump up a level in quality.

 

There's also the trope from fantasy games of having a powerful weapon be able to gain XP itself and level up.

Wow, so i'm not the only person to have heard of that!

I always thought it was a cool belief myself.

I have several pocket watches that are 100+ years old.

I like the gets better with use idea, but most everyone else is gonna poo all over that.

10 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

Okay, but just because you're not asking for it doesn't mean that it's not going to be the final mechanic, now does it?  If implemented it would make sense that degredation of vehicles would occur based on amount of use ... so after you run back and forth to your hunting/looting grounds and your base a few times a day then the vehicle will probably require repairs.  If it loses overall durability each time it is repaired, or can only be repaired x number of times before it is no longer repairable ... then depending on how much you use it, it could be every few days.

 

I am not trying to cast anything in any kind of light.  I am opposed to the idea, it didn't work well before and I don't see how it can work well now.  Nothing has been fleshed out to say how it would work, so all I have to model it on is past instances of this same mechanic.

 

Since you are obviously more in touch with the devs than I am, perhaps you have an inside scoop that gives you insight into how it would be implemented that hasn't been shared yet.

 

And I didn't ask if people wanted to rebuild every few game hours because the discussion was regarding weapons, tools, armor and vehicles. There was no discussion about building blocks degrading with repair. Are you suggesting that the building blocks should also stop being repairable? And that bases should just collapse at some point?  

I think vehicles breaking down at all is kinda silly myself.

I drive close to 100 miles per day round trip to get to work and back.

Maybe every 50-80k I will have something that needs fixing..

Unless you are running over stuff, or jumping it off cliffs etc, the vehicles are fine the way they are.

[MechanicalLens]

13 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

I think vehicles breaking down at all is kinda silly myself.

I drive close to 100 miles per day round trip to get to work and back.

Maybe every 50-80k I will have something that needs fixing..

Unless you are running over stuff, or jumping it off cliffs etc, the vehicles are fine the way they are.

Let's end with a compromise. Every time you get on your vehicle and start moving, there's a 25% chance of it exploding, even bicycles.

[Phoenixshade35]

Just now, MechanicalLens said:

Let's end with a compromise. Every time you get on your vehicle and start moving, there's a 25% chance of it exploding, even bicycles.

id find it funny with when we are running over zombies that sometimes the vehicle would stall, and u had to unclog zombie guts from the engine with a timer similar to that of lockpicking, would it be annoying sure, but kinda funny too, especially if your character grunted and groaned cause it was gross

then again, i would love a bbq to be able to be crafted for use in the base, and food made with it is like 10% better with higher stats

[Demandred1957]

12 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

id find it funny with when we are running over zombies that sometimes the vehicle would stall, and u had to unclog zombie guts from the engine with a timer similar to that of lockpicking, would it be annoying sure, but kinda funny too, especially if your character grunted and groaned cause it was gross

then again, i would love a bbq to be able to be crafted for use in the base, and food made with it is like 10% better with higher stats

That would be far more realistic than it "just breaks down"..

Cant count the number of times I have run through water puddles and had belts slipping for a mile or two later because of the water getting all over stuff.

So I could see zombie guts getting caught up in the fan belt..

Or a radiator springing a leak cause you just ran big momma down in cold blood and it overheats.

But all of that would take too much work, vs a one or two line script that has a time value percent expression.....

18 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Let's end with a compromise. Every time you get on your vehicle and start moving, there's a 25% chance of it exploding, even bicycles.

Let's not, and say we did.

[Roland]

36 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

 

Well, the bottom line is that TFP will do what they think is best.

 

Like always...

36 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

 

Since expressing my dislike for the idea is not allowed, I will now say that item degredation is awesome and should be implemented immediately if not sooner. 

Oh brother....

 

Wait here’s your next line: “I better stop now before the moderator bans me for disagreeing with him ZOMG!!!”

 

please dial down the drama. (That is not a threat)

[Phoenixshade35]

hey @Roland just wondering, have there been any talks about being able to link generators to a single grid or having a tier 2 generator by chance?  i would love to build something big with a centralized power unit

[Roland]

32 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

hey @Roland just wondering, have there been any talks about being able to link generators to a single grid or having a tier 2 generator by chance?  i would love to build something big with a centralized power unit

Yes. But it is the same talk as what Madmole mentioned about giving players access to the coffee pot. They aren’t going to allow things that could kill performance or easily bring down a server. They purposely limit the scale of electricity networks. 

[Phoenixshade35]

4 minutes ago, Roland said:

Yes. But it is the same talk as what Madmole mentioned about giving players access to the coffee pot. They aren’t going to allow things that could kill performance or easily bring down a server. They purposely limit the scale of electricity networks. 

understandable, in some regards it almost makes me with we could repair battery banks or generators we find around and use thing in that location, could make for interesting gameplay as well, like the pawn shop being taken over and those repaired for power

[Roland]

1 hour ago, pregnable said:

 

Okay, Gazz made all the weapons terrible, lol... and they stayed that way until Madmole got involved. 

 

I remember when MM made a video and was going to get a shotgun and use it on a zombie, acting excited, and I laughed out loud because it was obvious he did not realize that all guns were trash. 

 

Then he shot it and it did like nothing and he was like "uhh... wut"... then not too long after that the weapons got balanced to where they actually did damage again.  

You are equating Gazz to the forum? Gazz did what the dev team told him to do and then it got okay tested by Madmole and the values were adjusted. You mentioned two people from the dev team. Well you mentioned yourself but your only contribution was laughter. So...still no forum being in charge. 

 

1 hour ago, pregnable said:

The game does not need a loot treadmill to solve an endgame problem when the endgame is not finished and the problem does not really exist in the first place. 

I wouldn’t say the game needs it either. I just believe that it creates better choices and additional uses for mats we have. I’d like it in so that it is easily moddable. People run the spectrum. Crafting nuts probably would like stuff wearing out every week so they have an i game need to craft more.  You would want to have it modded so it never occurs during your game. I’m between those two. Getting it in gives us all a chance to have it how we like. 

 

1 hour ago, pregnable said:

But nah, if the weapons and item degrading every get like they were before, I would probably just not play as much, or play something else, like I did before.

Really? You’re stooping to playing the “I’ll uninstall!” card?  That tactic holds more weight with devs who create games on a subscription model. lel.

[EmpV]

I think degradation would be huge plus for crafting and the new tiered loot. In every game I have played since alpha 18, crafting ends once I make a tier 5 or get that purple. I’m both excited and disappointed when this happens.  All those parts just accumulate in boxes and never get used. There is an opportunity here to give crafters some love and even add a rare chance for crafting a rare tier 6.

 

With the new tiered loot, you could have a chance to loot a higher tier weapon sooner, but you might have to switch back to something more primitive when it wears out. You might decide to save a better weapon for something important like horde night. 
 

If your beloved tier 6 weapon finally degrades and breaks, it’s not that inconvenient to loot, buy a replacement, or craft a replacement since you are likely spec’d for it anyways. You probably have 2 or 3 in a box anyways. 
Tier 6 purples should be special, but not so special and eternal that crafting and looting doesn’t matter any more. 

Mods that enhance durability get a big boost from degradation.(Why even craft them or use them when your weapon/tool lasts forever with 1 click easy instant repair kits). 
 

I understand players play differently and a large number of players will play a shorter game and will restart around the purple tier stage(especially during alpha), but I also believe a lot of players will play a longer game and enjoy more crafting and an ongoing search for loot/parts. Especially when there is more to the end game. 

I do believe degradation could be fun and balanced, but it should also be one of the optional settings in the game settings. 

 

[Roland]

Without going back to single out anyone I just want to make my own final post on this subject and say that a limited use of items like tools and weapons would not have to affect blocks and vehicles as some have been warning. Blocks are not items, they are blocks. They have their own system of repair which is completely different than items. Vehicles are about to get their own system of critical damage. Vehicles will be more like us than they will be like items. 
 

Personally, I wouldn’t be against vehicles eventually wearing out and being beyond repair. But the point is that they wouldn’t have to follow the same system as tools and guns. 
 

As others have echoed whatever the devs decide will be the new normal or the continued normal. I’ve said my piece on this and Madmole very well may disagree with me. It wouldn’t be the first time. 😂

[Phoenixshade35]

12 minutes ago, EmpV said:

I think degradation would be huge plus for crafting and the new tiered loot. In every game I have played since alpha 18, crafting ends once I make a tier 5 or get that purple. I’m both excited and disappointed when this happens.  All those parts just accumulate in boxes and never get used. There is an opportunity here to give crafters some love and even add a rare chance for crafting a rare tier 6.

 

With the new tiered loot, you could have a chance to loot a higher tier weapon sooner, but you might have to switch back to something more primitive when it wears out. You might decide to save a better weapon for something important like horde night. 
 

If your beloved tier 6 weapon finally degrades and breaks, it’s not that inconvenient to loot, buy a replacement, or craft a replacement since you are likely spec’d for it anyways. You probably have 2 or 3 in a box anyways. 
Tier 6 purples should be special, but not so special and eternal that crafting and looting doesn’t matter any more. 

Mods that enhance durability get a big boost from degradation.(Why even craft them or use them when your weapon/tool lasts forever with 1 click easy instant repair kits). 
 

I understand players play differently and a large number of players will play a shorter game and will restart around the purple tier stage(especially during alpha), but I also believe a lot of players will play a longer game and enjoy more crafting and an ongoing search for loot/parts. Especially when there is more to the end game. 

I do believe degradation could be fun and balanced, but it should also be one of the optional settings in the game settings. 

 

i do feel it would help the feeling of the game, like right now it is in a good place, i have no questions about that, but i feel the crafting part of the game has slightly fallen behind the rest, this would bring a meaning to crafting again, like after crafting a vehicle, unless it glitches out of the world, creating another one never happens outside of servers, unless someone wanted to fix the biker bar and park a bunch of bikes outside of it, which brings out the looks lol, it could work, just needs testing and tweaking, plus more discussion lol

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

Without going back to single out anyone I just want to make my own final post on this subject and say that a limited use of items like tools and weapons would not have to affect blocks and vehicles as some have been warning. Blocks are not items, they are blocks. They have their own system of repair which is completely different than items. Vehicles are about to get their own system of critical damage. Vehicles will be more like us than they will be like items. 
 

Personally, I wouldn’t be against vehicles eventually wearing out and being beyond repair. But the point is that they wouldn’t have to follow the same system as tools and guns. 
 

As others have echoed whatever the devs decide will be the new normal or the continued normal. I’ve said my piece on this and Madmole very well may disagree with me. It wouldn’t be the first time. 😂

i even wouldn't mind having it so higher tier weapons and tools require more than 1 repair kit to fix, could make for some interesting choices as well

[FileMachete]

So I died a bit ago, looting one of the new Shamway buildings. In the main ground floor area there's a wood plank leading to a lift cage with some cement, cross that to some large vats.

 

I shoveled the cement and the hoist and cage came apart, dropped me and things fell on me wee head and brained me dead.

 

Not playing permadeath so no biggie. Just mentioning it in case it's not supposed to do that?

 

And just in case anyone in the know (devs/mods) happens to know, are some of the chain-hoist+platform with cobb/cement supposed to fall apart when the c/c is shoveled? Or should none of them fail & we should report those that do fail..?

[pregnable]

51 minutes ago, Roland said:

You are equating Gazz to the forum? Gazz did what the dev team told him to do and then it got okay tested by Madmole and the values were adjusted. You mentioned two people from the dev team. Well you mentioned yourself but your only contribution was laughter. So...still no forum being in charge. 

 

I wouldn’t say the game needs it either. I just believe that it creates better choices and additional uses for mats we have. I’d like it in so that it is easily moddable. People run the spectrum. Crafting nuts probably would like stuff wearing out every week so they have an i game need to craft more.  You would want to have it modded so it never occurs during your game. I’m between those two. Getting it in gives us all a chance to have it how we like. 

 

Really? You’re stooping to playing the “I’ll uninstall!” card?  That tactic holds more weight with devs who create games on a subscription model. lel.

 

No, from what I remember it was mostly Gazz doing the balancing at the time, and the game was going in the direction of the people that wanted playing the game to feel like a job, and guns ended up much worse that the starter bow.  I mean you probably know better that I do who was involved with all of that at the time, but I remember MM doing other stuff at that time.  I know I did not really like it and stopped playing. 

 

I also know I like the game a lot now.  It is one of my top games now and one of the few that I play.  I would rather not see it go back to those days.

 

I am not "stooping to playing the uninstall card", nor do I think this change is even going to happen, but if the game goes backwards and is not fun anymore I am obviously going to just play something else, lel. 

 

I am only posting so that it is not just the vocal minority that posts on the forum all the time on here. 

 

 

You sure are jumpy today... did a Dev show you a really good working zipline design and then delete it right in front of you?  lel