It doesnt matter if we can "craft" T6

[Kalen]

(Note: there is tier and quality. Sadly people often say tier when they mean quality. There are 3 tiers for each weapon, with axes stone axe is tier1, iron axe tier2 and steel axe tier3)

 

You're right, I keep doing that myself.... I need to stop

[Kattla]

As a player who loves crafting, Im not worried about latest debate between beeing able to "craft" T6 or not. Why? Because that's not crafting. They have removed the crafting of weapons and tools with a18.

 

Back at a16 and before, did any of you really say Im a fireweapon crafter? No, you crafted tools, you crafted mele weapons and bows. But you found weapon parts and just put them togeather. Now they have done the same with every frakin thing. We dont craft tools or any kind of weapon, we loot them, but unassembled, and then press a button to assemble them. That's not crafting.

 

Crafting is gathering the materials, processing them, maybe needing a looted tool before beeing able to process some tier materials. And then craft them with those materials.

 

Why would we fight over beeing able to assemble tier 6 or not. We are just looting every tier, some of them just need extra perk points wasted and an extra button press to assemble them.

 

BTW Im fine with firegun weapon parts, it's the non fire weapons and tools what sucks. Getting fireguns should be much rarer anyway

 

In reply to the first post:

True that. I just facepalmed when i learned about baseball bat "parts". Just totally generic and unimmersive.

And with the trader, and food in magicly restocking vending machines, i wouldn't even call it a survival game either.

 

No, i am not against loot. Loot is good. But if we can swim in it, we can also drown in it. Used to be the little spice or salt on our food, now it is like salt and spice with a little sprinkle of food (gameplay).

[Kattla]

Mod slots are also RNG. Most Tier 6 items I have found have only 4 mod slots.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

That's how it used to be, pre-A17. No way TFP will admit they made a mistake and go back to the good old days.

 

Any other developer and i'd agree. With The Fun Pimps, we never know , they are like cats that always lands on their feet.

[meganoth]

Easily. Those cement bags and blue pallets scattered around give out a TON of cement and cobblestone. I'm not sure why you would imply i'm buying those ingredients or resources. I use a tool that I bought or found to gather them and pump my points into resource gathering. I will probably always level miner 69'r for the damage boost, not for crafting.

 

I did say "buying and looting" so I'm not sure why you would imply that I am Implying

 

Current build, found most of that last night running 2-3 quests and 2-3 of those from the trader. It's always possible the trader nerf will change things, but its also possible it won't. No way to say until we see it. As of now if its not at least blue I sell it. Have over 90k dukes atm without even really trying.

 

So you found 7-8 purple items with looting in two in-game days at lvl 40 ?

[Brian9824]

I did say "buying and looting" so I'm not sure why you would imply that I am Implying

 

 

 

So you found 7-8 purple items with looting in two in-game days at lvl 40 ?

 

No I found 7-8 purple items pretty much in 1.5 hours of gameplay. Thats not counting the ton of blue items I found as well. I have 4/5 in lucky looter and a pair of glasses that add another 19 points. If you add items from trader thats another 15+ purple items as well and it's wear I got my purple leather chest armor that i'm using until I find my military armor chest piece.

 

Next time i'm looting i'll take some screenshots as I open the chests so you can see what i'm finding.

[Katitof]

Really? So much talking about this topic and Kalen was right, you didnt even know?

 

From 2 days ago:

 

Have you ever read patch notes for 7d before?

 

This is also from the notes:

Changed:

Empty cans are not used for drinking or boiling water

 

Now, can you use empty cans to fill them with water and boil them or not in A18?

 

152 is latest version.

Guess what it says on the patch notes and NOT on the bug reporting thread?

 

Items crafted by players can now have random stats. No random stats on primitive/stone items. Weapon and similar perks add 1 crafting quality per level so you can eventually craft QL 6 items.

[Brian9824]

Have you ever read patch notes for 7d before?

 

This is also from the notes:

 

 

Now, can you use empty cans to fill them with water and boil them or not in A18?

 

152 is latest version.

Guess what it says on the patch notes and NOT on the bug reporting thread?

 

That is almost 3 weeks out of date. The most recent changes are listed here - https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?130065-Announcement-A18-b152-EXP

 

Quite clearly says

 

Quality 6 items are not craftable

[Kalen]

Have you ever read patch notes for 7d before?

 

This is also from the notes:

 

 

Now, can you use empty cans to fill them with water and boil them or not in A18?

 

152 is latest version.

Guess what it says on the patch notes and NOT on the bug reporting thread?

 

That may be so, but I can assure you that currently (as of last night, anyway) you cannot craft Q6 items.

[Jihh]

I get that we won't get q6 crafting A18 and I already decided to not ask for it during A18 anymore. I also will test A18 for multiple games without q6 crafting and with (modded) q6 crafting. If the topic comes up in A19 experimental again and q6 crafting is still not a thing, I can (and maybe will) give feedback based in my experiences.

 

But I really wonder about some arguments against it, like:

 

Days of never having to leave the base to get purple stuff are gone

I don't even want that. Despite A17 had that option, I liked A17 more than A15 and A16, because going outside actually was fun. Yes A17 had it's flaws and yes I didn't NEED to go outside, but I WANTED to get outside, because we had interesting pois that weren't cleared in seconds. We had mods that changed our weapons and tools. The world looked a lot better. New vehicles were fun. We had quests we could do.

I don't need an obligation to go out, I need an adventure to go out and A17 delivered that better than A15 and A16 did. A18 even improved it. So why would I even want to stay in a cave and stare at a wall?

 

that's a balance decision to put crafting and looting on equal footing

Yes, both being equal would be balanced. But they aren't equal without q6 crafting. To make them equal both need to have the same potential power, chances, effort and risk. Right now looting is ahead in all of them aside from risk where they are equal.

On top of that you need to do the same thing (hence why risk is equal), so if you aim for crafting, chances are you already get it from looting on the way.

 

You can't really balance perfectly against pure RNG roll

Actually you kinda can thanks to weapon parts being a thing. Let the player craft q5 and q6 items. Leave q5 at 15 (or how many it currently is) parts needed. Now look at the chances for looting q6 items. Take that 1 out of x chance and make q6 crafting needing x*3 (due to 3 parts per scrapped item) weapon parts. Now you have the same chance to find a q6 item as you have to craft a q6 item. If you don't want to use that many resources you still can craft q5 items.

If your weapon of choice shares parts with 2 other weapons, just multiply the needed parts by 3 to remain balance.

If you want parts being loot on itself or being sold at the trader, just raise the number of needed parts accordingly.

 

The only downside is that you overall have a higher chance to get a q6 item for the slot you are specialized in than for other slots (which still remain completely on looting), since you have now two equal ways to obtain it. But is it really a problem, if your specialization actually has an impact on how you play? I mean isn't that the point why you specialize?

[Kalen]

Yes, both being equal would be balanced. But they aren't equal without q6 crafting. To make them equal both need to have the same potential power, chances, effort and risk. Right now looting is ahead in all of them aside from risk where they are equal.

On top of that you need to do the same thing (hence why risk is equal), so if you aim for crafting, chances are you already get it from looting on the way.

 

Well, I'm sure Katitof agrees with us now.... since he (she?) thought it was balanced when he thought you could craft Q6 items. Now knowing that you can't craft Q6 items, logically, he must see now that its not balanced.

[Sydious]

Have you ever read patch notes for 7d before?

 

Can't speak for them, but I have and can say for a fact you haven't read the latest ones despite quoting the version number. You should probably just stop while you are a head.

[Roland]

The loot nerf and the trader nerf have not happened yet. There is still lots of purple to be found. So it is out of balance at the moment but the next update should have the loot nerf and hopefully the trader nerf will come shortly thereafter.

 

All of this is wip so requires some patience. TFP feels confident they can make both looting and crafting feel rewarding and relevant. Of course, we will never have unanimous support on this issue.

[OzHawkeye]

we will never have unanimous support on this issue.

 

We're all individuals! :-)

 

I'm not.

[Sydious]

The loot nerf and the trader nerf have not happened yet. There is still lots of purple to be found. So it is out of balance at the moment but the next update should have the loot nerf and hopefully the trader nerf will come shortly thereafter.

 

All of this is wip so requires some patience. TFP feels confident they can make both looting and crafting feel rewarding and relevant. Of course, we will never have unanimous support on this issue.

 

Called it just saying...

[Kalarro]

TFP feels confident they can make both looting and crafting feel rewarding and relevant.

 

We all hope so. But real crafting please, not assembling parts.

[pahbi]

Seems like if you specialize in some area, should be able to craft purples for your specialty. Heck, might even help trading.

 

The thing that gets me the most is needing parts to make some items.

 

I can see needing parts to build a machine gun for example.

 

I can't understand needing parts to build a steel sledge hammer, I mean, its a lump of steel on a stick?! Right?

 

- P

[Hazitru]

I can see and understand the argument where it’s looting vs crafting and I agree with both parties. But this game which was much more like Minecraft where it was more dedicated to crafting and resource harvesting.

 

Where as it’s moving to a fallout/Skyrim type game where you mostly loot and are outside of your base to get parts,resources, materials etc. I like and agree with the change.

 

At the end of the day just loot more, not that big of a deal. It’s balanced, you can’t get all items by looting nor by crafting. You got to do both. You can still craft everything besides late game items. Everything shouldn’t be craftable. Loot able exclusive items make the game more rewarding for certain players.

[Kalarro]

I can see and understand the argument where it’s looting vs crafting and I agree with both parties. But this game which was much more like Minecraft where it was more dedicated to crafting.

 

Where as it’s moving to a fallout/Skyrim type game where you mostly loot and are outside of your base to get parts,resources, materials etc. I like and agree with the change.

 

At the end of the day just loot more, not that big of a deal. You can still craft everything besides late game items. Everything shouldn’t be craftable. Loot able exclusive items make the game more rewarding for certain players.

 

The key is it doesnt have to be one OR the other. I love going out and looting. I do that about 50% of the game time. That doesnt mean they have to remove the crafting process of tools and non fireguns weapos. I want to still be able to gather->process->craft tools and mele weaons/bows. That isnt removing anything from the loot experience, since you can 1. still find them and 2. theres tons of other things to find. Nobody will stop looting bc we can craft tools again.

[Hazitru]

The key is it doesnt have to be one OR the other. I love going out and looting. I do that about 50% of the game time. That doesnt mean they have to remove the crafting process of tools and non fireguns weapos. I want to still be able to gather->process->craft tools and mele weaons/bows. That isnt removing anything from the loot experience, since you can 1. still find them and 2. theres tons of other things to find. Nobody will stop looting bc we can craft tools again.

 

I don’t think looting is overpowered I think crafting was over powered and caused many exploits in the game which I will not get into here, thats a whole other conversation. People just not used to the balancing as of yet. It’s really not that hard to find parts.

 

You shouldn’t be able to perk in to your skill and make purple items day 5, that’s not fun. I believe madmole said he wants the game to have more progression. I’m not saying you don’t go out and loot but a lot of players just sat in their bases and crafted items he wanted to be for late game and the game had no progression, nothing to work towards.

 

Just as I didn’t like zombies digging down at first now I welcome it and understand it, it makes the game more interesting how you have to mine and can’t cheese underground bases. I feel like you’ll eventually welcome this change as well.

[Gamida]

As a player who loves crafting, Im not worried about latest debate between beeing able to "craft" T6 or not. Why? Because that's not crafting. They have removed the crafting of weapons and tools with a18.

 

Back at a16 and before, did any of you really say Im a fireweapon crafter? No, you crafted tools, you crafted mele weapons and bows. But you found weapon parts and just put them togeather. Now they have done the same with every frakin thing. We dont craft tools or any kind of weapon, we loot them, but unassembled, and then press a button to assemble them. That's not crafting.

 

Crafting is gathering the materials, processing them, maybe needing a looted tool before beeing able to process some tier materials. And then craft them with those materials.

 

Why would we fight over beeing able to assemble tier 6 or not. We are just looting every tier, some of them just need extra perk points wasted and an extra button press to assemble them.

 

BTW Im fine with firegun weapon parts, it's the non fire weapons and tools what sucks. Getting fireguns should be much rarer anyway

 

EDIT: example. Imagine in a19 blocks arent done with gathered materials anymore. We can just loot wood parts and stone parts and such to "craft" blocks. At the same time, we cant loot reinforced concrete blocks, we can only loot reinforced concrete blocks already finished, bc "the last tier shouldnt be crafted"

 

And instead of every crafter complaining about not beeing able to really craft blocks anymore, we just complain that we cant assemble reinforced concrete blocks with reinforced concrete block parts.

 

This is how I see all you fighting for beeing able to "craft" T6 tools

 

I wonder if cooking is going to go the same way.

In future build you will find gel capsules. You then hit R to bring up the menu and you can then choose to turn your gel caps into something else such as a bottle of water, a can of soup, a meat stew, etc

 

[RipClaw]

I don’t think looting is overpowered I think crafting was over powered and caused many exploits in the game which I will not get into here, thats a whole other conversation. People just not used to the balancing as of yet. It’s really not that hard to find parts.

 

It's funny how people always consider something to be balanced just because it suits their own way of playing. For example, I thought A16 was perfectly balanced but others thought the LBD system was completely out of balance because they couldn't become a master miner by looting and killing zombies.

 

I started a new game this weekend. I went straight into Lucky Looter. With only level 3 in Lucky Looter and looting I made more progress in my game than I could ever have made if I had invested the points in perks for crafting.

 

By the way, madmole wants to nerf looting and the trader. Apparently he thinks that looting is overpowered.

 

You shouldn’t be able to perk in to your skill and make purple items day 5, that’s not fun. I believe madmole said he wants the game to have more progression. I’m not saying you don’t go out and loot but a lot of players just sat in their bases and crafted items he wanted to be for late game and the game had no progression, nothing to work towards.

 

As split up as the crafting is at the moment you can't even craft all items in maximum quality by day 100. Only in the branches you specialize in can you craft something that has more than Q1. You have to find the rest.

 

Just as I didn’t like zombies digging down at first now I welcome it and understand it, it makes the game more interesting how you have to mine and can’t cheese underground bases. I feel like you’ll eventually welcome this change as well.

 

Digging zombies are annoying but certainly not interesting.

 

That's how it worked for me in A17: A zombie or a group of zombies hears me down there. They start digging instead of taking the entrance. I hear them, go up and find them in their hole. Then I kill them and have to fill the hole to avoid falling in accidentally.

 

What is interesting about it ?

 

I also had an underground base in A17, by the way.

I surrounded the entrance with a trench filled with spikes. The only way to get into the base was via a drawbridge.

That was no challenge. Only required some digging and some building.

[beHypE]

I don't mind not being able to craft Q6. I just roleplay it as if it's legendary stuff I can't make with my own hands. Gives a reason to keep going out there.

 

Similarly I don't mind needing to find sledgehammer parts or baseball parts to craft them. It kinda makes sense that you need to find a functional item before you can 'replicate it'.

 

My concerns are mostly two-fold. First of all, the almighty Lucky looter and Better Barter. Those '1 to rule them all' perks make absolutely no sense given the direction of specialization. It doesn't really matter if loot and traders get nerfed. If anything, it will only make those two skills even more OP to counterbalance the nerfs. The combined effect of the two makes them even worse than on their own, since better loot = more money per sold item and more money with better barter = even more loot that you can buy.

 

Secondly, gun parts. It just feels lackluster and soulless. Call me a nostalgic old timer, but finding actual gunparts (barrels, grips...) and slowly pimping my gun towards greatness felt so much better than 'let's scrap all that junk until a have 15 parts to magically create that Q5 gun'. It's fine for tools and weapons, but not for guns. Crafting would actually make a lot of sense again, say you can craft Q4 and on your current pistol, the grip is falling behind? Craft a Q4 grip and upgrade your current baby, instead of just trashing everything and rolling a fully new gun each time. Crafting would let you enhance existing stuff bit by bit, just like IRL.

[aptalley]

First off, better barter and lucky looter I feel should fall into the special book perk category where any spec can get them, (also promoting looting).

 

Second, rather than rng on the stats of crafted items, anyone thought of adding an rng to the quality level of a crafted item? Say, you can craft quality 1-6 items, but only at a certain % chance, modified by a perk or stat. So, you may have to craft 10 or 15 picks to get a good one?

[Kattla]

My concerns are mostly two-fold. First of all, the almighty Lucky looter and Better Barter. Those '1 to rule them all' perks make absolutely no sense given the direction of specialization.

 

Knowing at least two on the dev team set up their base next to the trader, and also knowing they make the game THEY want to play (which is fair enough btw), it makes perfect sense to me.

[Morloc]

We're all individuals! :-)

 

All animals are individuals, but some animals are more individual than others.

 

(Of course, you're not!)

 

 

-Morloc