Dreyseth Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 That wouldn't be enough. What if there's more than one player targeting the same Z simultaneously? It would have to be that the code checks who's bullet (or club, whatever) takes the actual hit. I'm not a programmer, but it sounds to me like a hell of real-time calculations, because the hitpoints/damage dealt to the Z would have to be constantly checked and adjusted, according to the player's level who is hitting the Z at the current exact moment. Again, no deep knowledge in coding here, but sounds complicated to impossible. That would be a mess, but you misread my solution. I suggested adjusting enemy stats based on who they are attacking, not who is attacking them. This makes a very big difference, as you have pointed out. Very trivial to code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimpy Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 That wouldn't be enough. What if there's more than one player targeting the same Z simultaneously? It would have to be that the code checks who's bullet (or club, whatever) takes the actual hit. I'm not a programmer, but it sounds to me like a hell of real-time calculations, because the hitpoints/damage dealt to the Z would have to be constantly checked and adjusted, according to the player's level who is hitting the Z at the current exact moment. Again, no deep knowledge in coding here, but sounds complicated to impossible. It's easy. All there needs to be is two lines of code that say something along the lines of "DamageTaken *= (1 + PlayerLevel/100)" and "DamageDealt *= 0.9^(playerLevel/10)". More damage taken, less damage dealt the higher level you are. But doesn't that completely undercut the whole notion of progression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannedSmeef Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 It's easy. All there needs to be is two lines of code that say something along the lines of "DamageTaken *= (1 + PlayerLevel/100)" and "DamageDealt *= 0.9^(playerLevel/10)". More damage taken, less damage dealt the higher level you are. But doesn't that completely undercut the whole notion of progression? There isn't really a solution to this problem other than for the lower level to wait for the 200 level to leave the area so the zombies can despawn. It's a caveat of multiplayer games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake_ Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Static terrain wouldn't change any of it. We already have magically respawning POIs for quests. Wrong. Empyrion terrain sux. 7dtd has complete control over digging sections. Empyrion does not. The main reason I play 7dtd is because of the blocks. I don't mind the performance drawbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerfly Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Roland, your smilies keep dying man, at least leave them some water or something. None of them will see A18 in that rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA_Q2 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 I think he meant increasing the decay timer now that horde lasts all night so we can get our loot at the end. - - - Updated - - - that was meant for the electric fence. unless the wire for electric fences clip through blocks? Yes they do. Wires are not a block - they go through anything and are not effected by anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreyseth Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 It's easy. All there needs to be is two lines of code that say something along the lines of "DamageTaken *= (1 + PlayerLevel/100)" and "DamageDealt *= 0.9^(playerLevel/10)". More damage taken, less damage dealt the higher level you are. But doesn't that completely undercut the whole notion of progression? Yes, but you're missing the goal with your solution. Madmole's concern was the multiplayer scenario where a high level player spawns a high level enemy which then targets a low level player. If the enemy hit points and attack damage dynamically scale down, the higher level player would still maintain their advantage over the lower level player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopsbourne Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 My journey would come to an end without the mine craft aspect. 3250 hours for what it is worth. it simply isn't comething I could play the game without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerfly Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 My journey would come to an end without the mine craft aspect. 3250 hours for what it is worth. it simply isn't comething I could play the game without. Don`t worry, game will keep going further without removing underground. It`s just ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water. At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines. What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now. You're a bad man....a VERY bad man! -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 If I had it to do all over again I would've bought this game during the kickstarter instead of off of steam during Alpha 6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannedSmeef Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 If I had it to do all over again I would've bought this game during the kickstarter instead of off of steam during Alpha 6... I got this game around Alpha 7, back when each alpha brought a cool UI change to the loading screen telling you about all the new additions. I miss that screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreyseth Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 If I had it to do all over again I would've bought this game during the kickstarter instead of off of steam during Alpha 6... If I could do it all over again I would become a Streaming sensation and have access 3 days earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Louden Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 If I had it to do all over again I would've bought this game during the kickstarter instead of off of steam during Alpha 6... I think I read 3 sentences of the kickstarter page for 7DTD before thinking "Hell ya!" and opting in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kattla Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 You're a bad man....a VERY bad man! -Morloc Holds up a mirror! Besides , he's a mole... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Blue Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 If I had it to do all over again I would've bought this game during the kickstarter instead of off of steam during Alpha 6... That's my only regret. Imagine what I might have done during KS if I have a bunch of mugs and shirts now... (btw - I didn't know about it then...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Me - simple minded as i am - typed that into google, and one of the first hits was an interview with somebody called "Stuart Ralston" He's just some cook who created a fish meal with broccoli sauce, and probably doesn't even know there's a game called "7d2d". ...but guess what, there's a picture of him, and that guy is the 100% pure prototype meme for (quoting Roland): "No one is going to get this one. heheheh...." He must be Rolands long lost twin or something Here you go and take a look yourselves: https://foodies.co.uk/aizle-stuart-ralston-interview/ Wrong Ralston.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Blue Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 True, I'm doing that already. But I think there's a certain point of compromise where adding two extra weeks of dev time for just a few MFs seems like a waste of time. Also no one's considering that no matter how polished your baby is there will be bugs at launch. There are too many PC/Mac/Linux (is it on linux? not sure) setups to take into account, it's inevitable that a chunk of people are going to have problems at release. Less MFs help, yes, but it's important to keep in mind that a true bug free launch is kind of impossible. I think even the most unreasonable, demanding consumers understand that. Especially when they have to activate the alpha in the beta tab. Maybe they already have a sense for what would happen if they released with some bugs still left to fix. How many people read or stay up on the current known bug list? How many people ignore existing bug reports and submit multiple for the same thing? How many people choose to ignore the bug report section and post almost anywhere? How many people submit "fix this" without any details or reproduceable steps? How many man hours for testers/fixers have to spend on various fix management solutions to track all of this/those? Jira administration anyone? How many man hours spent to figure out what is happening just to find out it was really for something else anyways? And how many times does fixing something break something else? Sometimes none. Sometimes a little... I am sure they already know things are going to be found even after they fix everything on their list. They're just trying to handle the known ones efficiently first. THAT, and generate some good perceptions. "...most unreasonable customers will understand..." - there certainly seem to be numerous examples of that not being the case. Like people who have claimed they have rights becasue they have 'invested'... And maybe not 'most' but some voices tend to be MUCH LOUDER than others... And the passcode thing won't work. Everyone already 'knows' this is an Alpha. People will chose to ignore to be playing anyways, And now you have passcode administration, controls, etc. (not to mention another #StreamerGate...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannedSmeef Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Maybe they already have a sense for what would happen if they released with some bugs still left to fix. How many people read or stay up on the current known bug list? How many people ignore existing bug reports and submit multiple for the same thing? How many people choose to ignore the bug report section and post almost anywhere? How many people submit "fix this" without any details or reproduceable steps? How many man hours for testers/fixers have to spend on various fix management solutions to track all of this/those? Jira administration anyone? How many man hours spent to figure out what is happening just to find out it was really for something else anyways? And how many times does fixing something break something else? Sometimes none. Sometimes a little... I am sure they already know things are going to be found even after they fix everything on their list. They're just trying to handle the known ones efficiently first. THAT, and generate some good perceptions. "...most unreasonable customers will understand..." - there certainly seem to be numerous examples of that not being the case. Like people who have claimed they have rights becasue they have 'invested'... And maybe not 'most' but some voices tend to be MUCH LOUDER than others... And the passcode thing won't work. Everyone already 'knows' this is an Alpha. People will chose to ignore to be playing anyways, And now you have passcode administration, controls, etc. People claim "rights" to 7DTD for investing because they did invest. It's pretty insulting to be told that your status as a customer is null because the package you bought had "Early Access" on it while also being told that putting money into an unfinished product isn't investing either. So which is it? Yeah, you accept the risks, but that doesn't make it okay to just forgo their investment. It's the reason why you see so many people upset about the streamer access--streamers didn't cause this game to exist and thrive, investors and customers did. Streamers didn't put funding into the Kickstarter that started it all, kickstarter backers did. Honestly I think a decent chunk of any complaints out of this next alpha will be because of the time between A17 and A18. We're coming up to a year for a second time in a row, most people find that pretty detestable for an update schedule. I think the passcode solution will at least help in mitigating unreasonable critics, it's a decent compromise for releasing with 10 or less MFs. It's more reasonable than delaying for a whole 2 weeks over 10 or less MFs, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreyseth Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 There isn't really a solution to this problem other than for the lower level to wait for the 200 level to leave the area so the zombies can despawn. It's a caveat of multiplayer games. Enemy combat in Borderlands works just fine with players of different levels. I think enemies there spawn at the average level of all the players in the party. 7D2D multiplayer is a different situation, that's why shifting an enemy's stats toward the level of the player they are targeting would solve this. Math can achieve great things for those brave enough to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Louden Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 You might get out of your tunnel vision cave someday and play some great RPGs so you have an idea of what we're trying to achieve here. Hey MM, What are your favorite RPGs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meilodasreh Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 That would be a mess, but you misread my solution. I suggested adjusting enemy stats based on who they are attacking, not who is attacking them. This makes a very big difference, as you have pointed out. Very trivial to code. Yeah that'd be cool. New bloodmoon horde base design: -group up with a lvl 1 guy -build steel bar cage in front of base -lvl 1 guy inside cage as "bait" for the horde -we (above lvl100) easily one-shot everything that comes for him --> surviving forever @TFP: pls immediately start coding as proposed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 People claim "rights" to 7DTD for investing because they did invest. It's pretty insulting to be told that your status as a customer is null because the package you bought had "Early Access" on it while also being told that putting money into an unfinished product isn't investing either. So which is it? Yeah, you accept the risks, but that doesn't make it okay to just forgo their investment. It's the reason why you see so many people upset about the streamer access--streamers didn't cause this game to exist and thrive, investors and customers did. Streamers didn't put funding into the Kickstarter that started it all, kickstarter backers did. Honestly I think a decent chunk of any complaints out of this next alpha will be because of the time between A17 and A18. We're coming up to a year for a second time in a row, most people find that pretty detestable for an update schedule. I think the passcode solution will at least help in mitigating unreasonable critics, it's a decent compromise for releasing with 10 or less MFs. It's more reasonable than delaying for a whole 2 weeks over 10 or less MFs, anyway. You are using a very very very loose definition of "invest". I "invest" like you are defining it in a package of Oreos monthly and the only growth I experience from my "investment" is in my girth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigil_Thane Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 ...There are too many PC/Mac/Linux (is it on linux? not sure) setups to take into account, it's inevitable that a chunk of people are going to have problems at release. Yes. I run my 7DTD on Kubuntu 19.10 with the latest propritory nVidia graphics Drivers... (this is also why I've been asking about Vulkan Support so much.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannedSmeef Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 You are using a very very very loose definition of "invest". I "invest" like you are defining it in a package of Oreos monthly and the only growth I experience from my "investment" is in my girth.... Well what else do you call the buyers on kickstarter? They willingly gave a company money so the company could deliver a product and in exchange each buyer would get a copy of that product. Yeah you don't own stock or anything but you still laid the foundation so the dream of making 7DTD was possible in the first place. I am very doubtful we would have a 7DTD released on its own without the help of kickstarter. That's whole point of kickstarter, to gather investors. I think of it like this: instead of having stock in a company, we get access to the game earlier than anyone else. That's your incentive to invest. Who would buy a copy on the hopes of maybe getting a game 5 years or so in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.