Pimps: please leave us some basic POIs

[Pizzalicious]

I think simple houses with sleepers out in plain view have got to be the most boring POI's there are. I groan whenever I find another one of those and I seem to find them everywhere so I don't even agree with the opinion that all the POI's are dungeon or even that too many of them are. I think people must be exaggerating this.

 

The ramshackle wilderness cabins and shacks will always be the boring simple POI's. You can always learn how to use the prefab editor and make a whole bunch of simple houses to import into the game and change your mix.

 

And for those of us who run a vanilla server? Just left out in the cold I take it? Not everything is hey just mod it out guys you know Roland. There needs to be balance. Not everyone thinks oh yeah the old poi's are boring so lets just remove them.

[Royal Deluxe]

In the developer commentary for one of the Half Life games, one of the devs makes the comment that - after observing their playtesters - a headcrab in every vent was boring, but a headcrab in one vent in five was terrifying.

 

I think the same principle applies to the zombies "hiding" in walls and dropping down from ceilings and the like. They should be rare enough to get you paranoid and occasionally take you by surprise. If too many buildings have them, they become routine and lose their shine.

 

Exact this

Question is what you want

Alien 1 or Alien 2 or "Call of Alien"

[PurgatoryWolf]

Yall are getting worked up over nothing. They have said many times in the past that not all POI's will be dungeons.

[Sandals]

What dungeon style house exists that cannot be turned into a base? Give me seed and coordinates and I'll be happy to prove you wrong or to die being proven wrong myself.

 

I never said that a dungeon style house couldn't be turned into a base. I prefer to do that with non-dungeon style houses.

[Guppycur]

I think simple houses with sleepers out in plain view have got to be the most boring POI's there are. I groan whenever I find another one of those and I seem to find them everywhere so I don't even agree with the opinion that all the POI's are dungeon or even that too many of them are. I think people must be exaggerating this.

 

The ramshackle wilderness cabins and shacks will always be the boring simple POI's. You can always learn how to use the prefab editor and make a whole bunch of simple houses to import into the game and change your mix.

 

The definition of boring is "not interesting; tedious."

 

...that pretty much nails the dungeon crawls at this point.

 

You said it yourself... walk in, shoot the drapes, shoot the cupboards, tap the floor for traps, look up in the ceiling, repeat.

 

In. Every. Room.

[meganoth]

Besides, the dungeon POI are used in quests, so while we could use them as a base, if we then take a quest that sends us there, we're screwed.

 

If you find a quest really uses your base (and the chances are pretty slim as a developer said unexplored houses would be prefered by the algorithm) then just abort the quest and get a new one.

 

The bad stuff (i.e. reset) only happens when you click on the exclamation mark at the quest site. Don't do that, problem solved.

[Royal Deluxe]

If you find a quest really uses your base (and the chances are pretty slim as a developer said unexplored houses would be prefered by the algorithm) then just abort the quest and get a new one.

 

The bad stuff (i.e. reset) only happens when you click on the exclamation mark at the quest site. Don't do that, problem solved.

 

In singleplayer

[Perramas]

In singleplayer

 

Is it seriously possible to reset someones base if they use one of the new POIs on a multiplayer server using the quest system?

[Roland]

The definition of boring is "not interesting; tedious."

 

...that pretty much nails the dungeon crawls at this point.

 

You said it yourself... walk in, shoot the drapes, shoot the cupboards, tap the floor for traps, look up in the ceiling, repeat.

 

In. Every. Room.

 

Fine but now reduce that by 1000 and that is the "not interesting and tedious" characteristics of a simple rectangular house open to view. Stand in doorway, shoot sleeper a b c and d all within line of sight from the doorway.

 

I do shoot drapes and panels and test floors but they aren't ALL filled with zombies and not ALL floors break. I still don't get this 100% of all houses have zombies in rafters, behind panels, and false floors narrative. To me it seems somewhat like what Cup of Tea posted. Perhaps not 1 in 5 but certainly not 5 in 5 like people are claiming. It's probably 3 in 5 to be honest.

 

But I'm not against reducing the gotcha moments down more. I'm against simplistic houses that have zero challenge, zero blind corners, and zero fun. Sure...once you you learn the dungeon it isn't as much fun as it was when you didn't know. Sure...once you know where the best loot is you can go directly there and take it bypassing the rest of the house. But if that is your complaint why would you want to trade that for something that is stupidly unfun even the first time you enter? Who doesn't know to go directly to the ladder to the attic in all those houses from pre-A17? The A16 houses have nothing to bypass in the first place....

 

I really am at a loss here that people are actually putting forth the argument that houses with nothing at all to be bypassed in the first place are preferred to houses packed with content just because that content can be bypassed if you choose to do so.

[n2n1]

A sense of proportion is a good thing, but it's not available to everyone.

 

I think i speak platitudes, Yes?

 

Why not stop and come up with a new feature, for example: Attic-style

 

or - add more ruins.

 

In the developer commentary for one of the Half Life games, one of the devs makes the comment that - after observing their playtesters - a headcrab in every vent was boring, but a headcrab in one vent in five was terrifying.

 

I think the same principle applies to the zombies "hiding" in walls and dropping down from ceilings and the like. They should be rare enough to get you paranoid and occasionally take you by surprise. If too many buildings have them, they become routine and lose their shine.

 

This!

[HerrKingsley]

Also "kill your darling".

One of the first thing you learn in design schools.

[Roland]

Is it seriously possible to reset someones base if they use one of the new POIs on a multiplayer server using the quest system?

 

Pretty improbable. They would have to first disable your landclaim block and destroy your bedroll and that is only if your chosen POI was selected as quest destination in the first place.

 

Do people who play PVP even make their base out of dungeon pois? Seems unwise to me even without taking this possibility into consideration.

 

If you are playing PVE then why would someone invade your base and destroy your LCB and bedroll in order to reset your POI? Seems contrary to the game mode.

 

Worried about griefers? Most likely they would have screwed you over anyway since they have been screwing people over for many an alpha before quests were a thing.

[Dimpy]

I agree with the OP. We really should have been discussing this back when Madmole showed the first new Diersville house, before the level designers put thousands of hours into the new dungeon POIs.

 

It probably isn't the case, but it feels like the proliferation of the dungeon maze-like design was inspired by all the pre-A17 fourm users who were shouting "We want more content. More POIs, more looting, longer endgame. Get this update to us ASP and stop bothering with that unity update BS and overhauls". As it turns out, a house that takes longer to empty out is NOT automatically more fun.

 

Dungeons are a nice icing on the cake of a great game. It adds a little bit of flavor, a little bit of variety. You're playing a natural-feeling nonlinear game for hours on end, then run across a dungeon and suddenly "Wow, I'm playing a Level. This is different. This is fun". A lot of games have sudden tone shifts, like when a FPS suddenly becomes a 2D hacking puzzle minigame, and they were fun not only because they were different, but because they never let you play it long enough to get bored. With A17, the cake seems to be mostly icing, and it's kind of gross.

 

If all the dungeons all feel the same, then all the crawls should be wrapped up into a few massive POI instead of spread out everywhere. How would the dungeon crawl junkies feel about a nearly infinite underground complex with randomly placed modular rooms? (think minecraft strongholds)

[Royal Deluxe]

I agree with the OP. We really should have been discussing this back when Madmole showed the first new Diersville house, before the level designers put thousands of hours into the new dungeon POIs.

 

Why, the new pois are great. But they cant replace the few Pois you need at start.

Maybe we simply need a small set of 5 "Normal" pois

* Small

* Starterloot

* Sturdy enough to claim it for horde 7, 14 and 21 (with improvements)

 

And maybe we can set these few pois as Decoration ?

Means they can spawn everywhere (no streets needed)

 

....

 

Hmm looks like i need to mod that for testing. But not today, i am in a game i play with fun ^^

[Dimpy]

I do shoot drapes and panels and test floors but they aren't ALL filled with zombies and not ALL floors break. I still don't get this 100% of all houses have zombies in rafters, behind panels, and false floors narrative. To me it seems somewhat like what Cup of Tea posted. Perhaps not 1 in 5 but certainly not 5 in 5 like people are claiming. It's probably 3 in 5 to be honest.

 

I think the incidence of zombie closets and other gotchas is being judged on a logarithmic scale. To me at least, the difference between 3/5 of the closets being filled and 5/5 is really NOT that significant, considering 1/100 would probably be enough to keep players on their toes.

[Ranzera]

Why, the new pois are great. But they cant replace the few Pois you need at start.

Maybe we simply need a small set of 5 "Normal" pois

* Small

* Starterloot

* Sturdy enough to claim it for horde 7, 14 and 21 (with improvements)

 

And maybe we can set these few pois as Decoration ?

Means they can spawn everywhere (no streets needed)

 

....

 

Hmm looks like i need to mod that for testing. But not today, i am in a game i play with fun ^^

 

I don't see any reason to remove the old POIs. We could have a lot of variety in POIs if we just keep adding them without removing them. This choice to remove POIs as more get created feels arbitrary and contributes to the tedium and sameness of A17.

[unclevlad]

There is one circumstance where I miss the burned out, no forge, no zeds, crap loot houses - when I get caught out after dark and need as place to hold up for the night. Most often, this is day one, multi-player cooperative, and we are all trying to run to whoever had the best initial trader to group up. Especially with stamina issues, it happens. But I can still find houses of that type, just not as plentifully.

 

For the most part, I like the new POIs, but not to the exclusion of all of the old style. I don't see the balance being too far off.

[Guppycur]

Fine but now reduce that by 1000 and that is the "not interesting and tedious" characteristics of a simple rectangular house open to view. Stand in doorway, shoot sleeper a b c and d all within line of sight from the doorway.

 

I do shoot drapes and panels and test floors but they aren't ALL filled with zombies and not ALL floors break. I still don't get this 100% of all houses have zombies in rafters, behind panels, and false floors narrative. To me it seems somewhat like what Cup of Tea posted. Perhaps not 1 in 5 but certainly not 5 in 5 like people are claiming. It's probably 3 in 5 to be honest.

 

But I'm not against reducing the gotcha moments down more. I'm against simplistic houses that have zero challenge, zero blind corners, and zero fun. Sure...once you you learn the dungeon it isn't as much fun as it was when you didn't know. Sure...once you know where the best loot is you can go directly there and take it bypassing the rest of the house. But if that is your complaint why would you want to trade that for something that is stupidly unfun even the first time you enter? Who doesn't know to go directly to the ladder to the attic in all those houses from pre-A17? The A16 houses have nothing to bypass in the first place....

 

I really am at a loss here that people are actually putting forth the argument that houses with nothing at all to be bypassed in the first place are preferred to houses packed with content just because that content can be bypassed if you choose to do so.

 

Pois aren't always meant to be "fun". They serve as practical objects as well, which /add/ to the overall fun... Making them all insufferable time drags, detracts from that overall "fun".

[Roland]

Pois aren't always meant to be "fun". They serve as practical objects as well, which /add/ to the overall fun... Making them all insufferable time drags, detracts from that overall "fun".

 

"Practical objects" as in objects that have uses? If so, list for me the practical uses of basic A16 POI's that A17 designed houses can't fill. What is it you want to do for quick and amazing fun in the basic houses that you cannot do in the time dragging and insufferable level designed houses?

[Royal Deluxe]

"Practical objects" as in objects that have uses? If so, list for me the practical uses of basic A16 POI's that A17 designed houses can't fill. What is it you want to do for quick and amazing fun in the basic houses that you cannot do in the time dragging and insufferable level designed houses?

 

After i died at the beginning of experimental arround 10 Times by such houses i never again enterred one before i had decent equip arround day 14-28

[Guppycur]

"Practical objects" as in objects that have uses? If so, list for me the practical uses of basic A16 POI's that A17 designed houses can't fill. What is it you want to do for quick and amazing fun in the basic houses that you cannot do in the time dragging and insufferable level designed houses?

 

Crash for the night after I realize it's 9:30pm? Explore the desolate effects of post apocalyptic life? Get through a quick loot run? Hide from a wandering horde I'm not equipped to deal with?

[Shin]

"Practical objects" as in objects that have uses? If so, list for me the practical uses of basic A16 POI's that A17 designed houses can't fill. What is it you want to do for quick and amazing fun in the basic houses that you cannot do in the time dragging and insufferable level designed houses?

 

Roland, you should be aware that you really do sound as some sort of "the defender of tha faith" for 7d2d. To be honest I think you scare of more people then you actually entertain. I've had some experience in your answers and personally do not mind. But reactions to said answers shows different opinions.

 

Not that I care much, but when I see these comments coming one after another and put them in perspective with your comments to my thread... Then it all makes sense and I see what you are doing.

[Benjiro]

But....people DO get bitten by zombies...?

 

I can think of a few fictional reasons why they might end up in rafters and in wardrobes that aren't any less plausible than the silly idea of zombies existing in the first place. Since we are making up the monsters it isn't beyond the pale to make up reasons for their behavior. It's all make believe. You don't like it and that's fine. I do and that's fine.

 

BTW, I often look up into rafters and shoot drapes and wardrobe panels and there is no zombie there. I think that's fantastic.

 

 

Nothing wrong with hiding zombies if it makes sense. That means if the playing field is fair.

 

If we use your scenario of people that are bitten and they die while hiding in wardrobes:

 

* Then what is the change that people die standing on their feet? This allows Zombies to jump out faster.

* What about all the spots where zombies hide in, having magically paper thin wood.

 

Normally, a zombie needs time to get up and break out. Yet, every one of those zombies is hidden behind a false 1hp painted wardrobe door or whatever. What about the bear den, where you have 9 zombies, in 3 iron vats, that break out within 1 second thanks to those fake walls.

 

Immersion, sure, bring it!!! But that is not immersion but pure player bullying from the Pimps. Especially when its overdone.

 

I say this a lot of times but nobody like to hear it. Sleeper Zombie used to be designed around the idea that you do not know if a dead body lying on the ground was a body or a sleeper. Now 40% of the zombie tend to stand in corners, ideal for ambushing. 10% Are hidden in rafters, in again ideal spots to ambush the player. Another 10 a 15% are position standing up on false ceiling, where nobody can hide in the first place. Its just TOO MUCH suspension of disbelief!!!

 

There was nobody at the Pimp saying: "you know guys, are we really not over doing it?"

 

But....people DO get bitten by zombies...?

 

I can think of a few fictional reasons

Notice that even you used the word a "few" fictional reasons. There is a limit on the craziness of zombies in the houses.

 

Houses that are filled to brink with zombies. That does not create any tension because you expect a zombie in every room, behind every cabinet, behind every corner. Every house you step into and you see such a nice big open floor... O yea, let me guess, drop floor. O surprise sigh. It turns the POIs simply into work with no real fun factor. Good on the first time you encounter them / play the game, then it becomes very fast repetitive and boring.

[Roland]

Roland, you should be aware that you really do sound as some sort of "the defender of tha faith" for 7d2d. To be honest I think you scare of more people then you actually entertain. I've had some experience in your answers and personally do not mind. But reactions to said answers shows different opinions.

 

Not that I care much, but when I see these comments coming one after another and put them in perspective with your comments to my thread... Then it all makes sense and I see what you are doing.

 

Conspiracy theories aside. All I am doing is defending a part of the game I like. I’m not representing any agenda other than that I personally like the POIs and think they are way better than the old style. Period. I don’t know what I did to your thread. Sorry.

[Dimpy]

Crash for the night after I realize it's 9:30pm? Explore the desolate effects of post apocalyptic life? Get through a quick loot run? Hide from a wandering horde I'm not equipped to deal with?

 

Maybe wandering hordes were nerfed and staying alive at night without shelter was made trivial for that very reason.