Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[AtomicUs5000]

LBD is over. Period. Accept it and adapt or move on if it is your game breaker.

Or don't move on and also don't accept it, like me.

[AlyssaFaden]

Oh great! someone has come to the forum to complain about the game via questions, but says they're not questions but a discussion.

 

I'm enjoying A17.X for what it is; one of many iterations of the game in which the developers constantly take feedback (I think too much), adapt, mold, grow, expand, tweak, and constantly discuss and communicate with the players. There are things I wish they hadn't taken out, things I like, and things which I see are evolving.

 

And I'm still enjoying the game for what it is

 

And I will enjoy the game for what it will be

 

Just move on to another game already if all you've got is whinging about it.

[Roland]

cough... stamina changes... cough cough... death penalty.... cough...

 

There is still stamina management and people still complain about the stamina so definitely not a backtrack--simply a retuning of severity which (of course) others feel was unwarranted.

 

There is still the near death penalty and people still complain about it and mod it out completely so definitely not a backtrack. It was lessened and made less harsh but it is still there in a form that people still hate so there you go.

[zombo]

VIC and RAZZ.... I gotta ask...

What other sandbox games are better then this alpha? Besides earlier builds of the game or project zomboid, go on, name em! I wanna play em!

[Roland]

Everyone has their threshold for punishment. A moment when they say "enough, im not supporting this anymore". It is a slow build-up for those that are engaged in something they used to like. Mine was a two-pronged event, first at A15, when i decided to longer mod an Alpha game that changes so much with every update, and for the worst. You know when someone tries to save a cake by adding new layers, but each new layer, as good as they taste individually just messes up the entire cake more? This is 7 Days to Die.

 

The second was when René Kuhn, the most dedicated modder in the game, died in an accident. The developers didnt care. They couldnt. They after all need more ways to sell their game. Its okay. Ill just quit modding.

 

But then came A17 and everyone said it was bottom-level 7DTD. I couldnt believe it so i tested it myself for a month or so. The game is now completely devoid of its original character. There are just so many problems that rotted out to this version it stank even new cool mechanics, like new vehicles. The LBD is gone, because it actually was a cool thing and we cant have cool things. With standard settings zombies destroy bases effortlessly. I cant now find parts, just whole guns. The awesome quality level system for items is gone for a meager 1-6 system, because instead of hiring a mathematician to make loot drops more interesting they instead scrapped the whole idea because they couldnt bang their heads enough.

 

And for all gun aficcionados out there, all they got was a mod system that is alright, but makes zero sense when you need a schematic that is destroyed when you craft one. And im not even mentioning how farming is useless and they broke completely what was once the best sustaining water/food system several alphas ago.

 

So yeah, patience has its limits. And even the most patient of people are leaving because the devs want to be Hideo Kojima and do the opposite of what their players want, but can't separate the whiners from the good advice. Way to go, pimps. You sure slap and put those wenches of yours giving you money, thats how its done.

 

Well I typed and deleted about five responses to this steaming pile of a post. That is the only indication I'll give of what I originally was going to type. Instead I will encourage everyone to please load up 7 Days to Die and click on the credits.

 

René "Pacco" Kuhn was acknowledged by the developers and they did care about him and his team of modders who created Starvation. Everyone has their own opinion about A17 and the general direction the game has been heading since about A11 and that is all it is...opinion. To try and use Pacco's passing as a club to bully the developers is a new low especially since it is unfair and unwarranted.

[RestInPieces]

There is still stamina management and people still complain about the stamina so definitely not a backtrack--simply a retuning of severity which (of course) others feel was unwarranted.

 

There is still the near death penalty and people still complain about it and mod it out completely so definitely not a backtrack. It was lessened and made less harsh but it is still there in a form that people still hate so there you go.

 

I know, these are too minor to be considered backtracking anyway... but I just HAVE to whine about them every chance I get, until we get options for them as well.

[Roland]

I know, these are too minor to be considered backtracking anyway... but I just HAVE to whine about them every chance I get, until we get options for them as well.

 

I'll put in a plug for my mod which is pretty good now in terms of death penalty. You earn 1 skillpoint after the first (real time)hour of staying alive, 2 skillpoints after the second hour, and 3 skillpoints after the third hour and then 3 skillpoints every hour thereafter as long as you don't die. If you die the whole process starts over and believe me-- when you see that you are at level three of earning skillpoints you feel a real fear of dying so as to not lose that.

 

With no experience points I don't feel unnatural incentives to do things for the express purpose of earning xp and death means starting over on earning skillpoints. I played for about 5 hours today and had a few close calls where my heart was beating because I knew what death meant and I really wanted the 3 skillpoints that were coming due very soon.

[RestInPieces]

I'll put in a plug for my mod which is pretty good now in terms of death penalty. You earn 1 skillpoint after the first (real time)hour of staying alive, 2 skillpoints after the second hour, and 3 skillpoints after the third hour and then 3 skillpoints every hour thereafter as long as you don't die. If you die the whole process starts over and believe me-- when you see that you are at level three of earning skillpoints you feel a real fear of dying so as to not lose that.

 

With no experience points I don't feel unnatural incentives to do things for the express purpose of earning xp and death means starting over on earning skillpoints. I played for about 5 hours today and had a few close calls where my heart was beating because I knew what death meant and I really wanted the 3 skillpoints that were coming due very soon.

 

I am sure it's way more effective than what we have now at making you want to survive. And I would like to remember how it feels like to play without the xp factor again. I'll check it out. Only thing that kind of bums me out is choosing how fast the difficulty will increase (by the quests) without getting something significant out of it, since you can pool skill points with time. Also looking forward to these future features

[Morloc]

VIC and RAZZ.... I gotta ask...

What other sandbox games are better then this alpha? Besides earlier builds of the game or project zomboid, go on, name em! I wanna play em!

 

 

 

-Morloc

[12pack]

 

 

-Morloc

 

other crickets

[Razzoriel]

VIC and RAZZ.... I gotta ask...

What other sandbox games are better then this alpha? Besides earlier builds of the game or project zomboid, go on, name em! I wanna play em!

Dwarf Fortress if you're into no-graphics, infinetely-complex games. If you want the dumbed down, space edition, Rimworld.

 

Don't Starve has its moments. But if you're just into zombie builder games, you're stuck with either this or Project Zomboid, each with its pros and cons. Not a sandbox, but Escape from Tarkov is generally getting better and better with each update (but has zero zombies, though). The gunplay alone of Escape from Tarkov makes the game incredible.

 

Then if we branch off, there's Mordhau coming April 29th. It's not that 7 Days to Die is a bad game, its that it suffers a rare syndrome of getting worse and worse with each new update, becoming more and more a shell of its former self. How can I give any seriousness to a game where the devs can't even put a freakin' gun animation straight for three years or more? It's this and many other quirks which put 7DTD down, when it has the potential to be even better than what it currently is.

[Scyris]

I'm waiting for 17.3 if its going to be a thing, though I still have issues with the game, like Steel is able to be crafted WAY to early imo, its supposed to be endgame, level 30 ish is not endgame at all. I'd like to see tiers offer slightly better stats even without mods. I'd also like to see the zombine spawning mechanic overhauled, so that at all gamestages, there is only a chance of a rad feral insted of every single poi being infested with nothing BUT these. Make it work like loot/loot bonus, higher bonus=higher chance of higher tier items but never guarnteed. Once you get past a certan day in a17 poi's become not worth looting anymore as the cost to loot them is far higher than what you can possible gain, which is really bad in a game like this. My zombie spawning thing would fix this, as while you'll see more of these enemies, you'll still see lots of normal zombies too.

 

The amount of zombies that spawn in POI's also needs to be looked over, a small house that maybe a family of 4 would live in should not have 10+ zombies in it. The problem is, its static, that poi will almost ALWAYS have the same amount of zombies in it always in the same spots, imo the spawns should be randomize. Small houses can spawn 0-8 zombies, though bigger poi's have a much higher min/max that can spawn. Exploring Poi's in a17 was great at first, but it got boring real fast once I relized I could look at a poi and know how many zombies it'll have and know where they all are since its static.

[Snowydeath]

Snip

 

 

A17.3 has been confirmed by the devs to be arriving with bugfixes Soon™

[Jamey]

There is still the near death penalty and people still complain about it and mod it out completely so definitely not a backtrack. It was lessened and made less harsh but it is still there in a form that people still hate so there you go.

Taking away skills remains the most unfun death penalty I’ve ever experienced in a video game. I’ll keep complaining or modding it out. I’ll also keep hoping that TFP listens and replaces it with a less obnoxious penalty.

[RestInPieces]

Taking away skills remains the most unfun death penalty I’ve ever experienced in a video game. I’ll keep complaining or modding it out. I’ll also keep hoping that TFP listens and replaces it with a less obnoxious penalty.

 

The current penalty is not severe at all - can be easily circumvented and is hardly of much consequence by any accounts or standards. However I can understand how some people consider it obnoxious and frustrating as it takes away perks the player had recently invested in, especially those related to crafting.

[Jamey]

The current penalty is not severe at all - can be easily circumvented and is hardly of much consequence by any accounts or standards. However I can understand how some people consider it obnoxious and frustrating as it takes away perks the player had recently invested in, especially those related to crafting.

It is obnoxious and frustrating, which is why I don’t like it.

[Omega-Factor]

Everyone has their threshold for punishment. A moment when they say "enough, im not supporting this anymore". It is a slow build-up for those that are engaged in something they used to like. Mine was a two-pronged event, first at A15, when i decided to longer mod an Alpha game that changes so much with every update, and for the worst. You know when someone tries to save a cake by adding new layers, but each new layer, as good as they taste individually just messes up the entire cake more? This is 7 Days to Die.

 

But then came A17 and everyone said it was bottom-level 7DTD. I couldnt believe it so i tested it myself for a month or so. The game is now completely devoid of its original character. There are just so many problems that rotted out to this version it stank even new cool mechanics, like new vehicles. The LBD is gone, because it actually was a cool thing and we cant have cool things. With standard settings zombies destroy bases effortlessly. I cant now find parts, just whole guns. The awesome quality level system for items is gone for a meager 1-6 system, because instead of hiring a mathematician to make loot drops more interesting they instead scrapped the whole idea because they couldnt bang their heads enough.

 

And for all gun aficcionados out there, all they got was a mod system that is alright, but makes zero sense when you need a schematic that is destroyed when you craft one. And im not even mentioning how farming is useless and they broke completely what was once the best sustaining water/food system several alphas ago.

 

So yeah, patience has its limits. And even the most patient of people are leaving because the devs want to be Hideo Kojima and do the opposite of what their players want, but can't separate the whiners from the good advice. Way to go, pimps. You sure slap and put those wenches of yours giving you money, thats how its done.

 

 

Many good points here, not least of which is the point about the games original character. Don't know why this has sailed over the heads of so many on this forum, but it is the biggest reason I can't play anymore. And I've tried, multiple times. I think the game peaked at around A12 for me. Been a downhill slide ever since.

[Viktoriusiii]

like Steel is able to be crafted WAY to early imo, its supposed to be endgame, level 30 ish is not endgame at all.

I'd be inclined to agree with you.

BUT there is a big thing you overlook: You need to go all out on intelligence if you want to have it lvl 30.

And if you are alone, trust me going hp resistances, more food more loot or more stamina is 10000% more efficient.

 

What I hate is vehicles beeing locked away so late.

If I found the ressources to craft one, why TF can't I? It feels so unrewarding to loot if you have to wait and grind for hours anyways.

 

My greatest gripe is that they do not seem to understand gamedevelopment or basic principles.

Yes big words from someone who HASN'T created a successfull game yet, but this is so basic anyone can tell you:

reward>punishment

 

As roland said, instead of taking away skills after death, give skills for staying alive.

Instead of levelgating vehicles (WHY), make the parts even rarer, rewarding exploration.

Instead of making zombies literally fall from the roof with no counterplay except for knowing they are there, reward us for sneaking and watching our surroundings.

 

What I want to say: the game in A17 is punishing the player because A16 was too easy.

Stamina, zombieai, removal of spiketraps, levelgates, random poizombiespawns, ridicoulus weathersystem (which in theory is good just the switch from "you are too cold" to "you are basically dying of heatstroke" is way WAY too quick. A16 did that better) and all those things. Honestly even with the removal of lbd (which was objectively the more rewarding and exciting method even if you didn'T like it because it was unfinished, the CONCEPT is better but I already know you disagree but lets keep it on point) the biggest problem is the way TFPs are going around "fixing" things. If they don'T find a fitting solution in 1 second, they just remove it and sometimes dont even replace it (wasteland, lbd, logspikes, multiple lights and so on) and with gameplay they go around just turning everything down and "nerfing" the player. It is simply not fun.

 

 

There is a reason why mobas buff 90% and nerf only 10%, even if that causes a power inflation.

Nobody likes their champ/game beeing less fun than before. But giving stronger opposition is totally fine.

 

But what do I know... I'm just a forum guy from half way across the world whining about a system that won't ever come back to a once GoaT game.

[zombo]

Dwarf Fortress if you're into no-graphics, infinetely-complex games. If you want the dumbed down, space edition, Rimworld.

 

Don't Starve has its moments. But if you're just into zombie builder games, you're stuck with either this or Project Zomboid, each with its pros and cons. Not a sandbox, but Escape from Tarkov is generally getting better and better with each update (but has zero zombies, though). The gunplay alone of Escape from Tarkov makes the game incredible.

 

Then if we branch off, there's Mordhau coming April 29th. It's not that 7 Days to Die is a bad game, its that it suffers a rare syndrome of getting worse and worse with each new update, becoming more and more a shell of its former self. How can I give any seriousness to a game where the devs can't even put a freakin' gun animation straight for three years or more? It's this and many other quirks which put 7DTD down, when it has the potential to be even better than what it currently is.

 

 

GOOD GAMES! You should mention dungeon crawl stone soup as well- the king of the rogues.

But I hope you realize now... it's not very many games is it?

 

The current iteration is being hated on by some people in an unreasonably deep way imo. Like you folks are losing perspective in your strong emotions. I see you guys care about the direction, but I just feel the level of discontent doesn't match what is still here I guess.

 

 

And also understand what some of you dissenters say feels like you state it as fact for everyone, and that certainly isn't so. A lot of us love what is here. Surely what is here isn't for everyone, but you can always revert to a16. Isn't that reason enough to still love it if you love a16?

[Razzoriel]

Virtually no consumer wants an unfinished game to update for worse. There is a lot of belligerence in the forums for any criticism in the direction of development. Ill keep that away and probably come back in a few months.

 

Btw Roland, if you want to resume my whole critique as a death club, name me one action or development done in favor of modders after René died. One. Because anyone can write a condolence letter. Not everyone can actually say "well this important modder died today, maybe we can improve something for the modder community". 7DTD still requires outside tools for deep modding. Its a joke.

[Pr00ch]

Kind of a letdown. A17 did 1 step forwards and 2 steps back. Progression is utterly shagged. Game's a grindfest, everything boils down to killing zombies now - and the combat system isn't exactly something to write home about. Advancing skills by doing their corresponding actions is just infinitely better for a game of this sort. I mean, it could work, but only if actions other than killing zombies are equally rewarding in terms of skill points. The progression (be it regarding skill, or just the general flow of the game through recipes etc.) was the game's strongest point before, now it's the opposite.

 

In alpha 17, it's hard to call it a survival game anymore, as the player can't lay out their plan for survival and act upon it, while gradually and evenly improving at the skills he's using, and dynamically making adjustments to the original plan based on the loot he's found or new ideas he's got. Now he's just railroaded into killing zombies. That's all that it boils down to at this point. Prior to A17, you'd just go with the flow, play 'organically'. Now you can't really do that anymore.

 

A17 did a whole lot of cool new things and streamlined a lot of stuff for the better, but the progression is a key aspect of the game. Without it being done right, nothing else really matters.

[Khulkhuum]

Virtually no consumer wants an unfinished game to update for worse. There is a lot of belligerence in the forums for any criticism in the direction of development. Ill keep that away and probably come back in a few months.

 

Btw Roland, if you want to resume my whole critique as a death club, name me one action or development done in favor of modders after René died. One. Because anyone can write a condolence letter. Not everyone can actually say "well this important modder died today, maybe we can improve something for the modder community". 7DTD still requires outside tools for deep modding. Its a joke.

 

I can give you that one thing - XPath modding for example. Eases creating mods and changes without modifying game files. You can also add custom files like images, etc. way easier. I can make a small modlet in a few minutes now that would change A LOT of the config.

 

Can't say i had been playing in 7DTD recently, but i am in the same mindset: waiting for any updates and focusing on other games. The game needs fixes and they have been promised. Should i rant effortlessly until a new update comes? Devs will post when it's due, noone can make thwm work faster, as apparently they have their vision for the game and it has not seen the full light of day.

 

I have seen the same "questions" in the past and with no update from the devs (as they are surely busy with working on the game), we have no new info to discuss, meaning all of this discussion is in the same feel as the ones preceeding it. People making the same comments as before and bringing new emotions into the equation doesn't make it all any more fruitful than the other topics.

 

I'd say have patience, but surely some have ran out of it. I have enough, but sadly can't give it away.

[PoppaTot]

The current iteration is being hated on by some people in an unreasonably deep way imo. Like you folks are losing perspective in your strong emotions. I see you guys care about the direction, but I just feel the level of discontent doesn't match what is still here I guess.

 

 

And also understand what some of you dissenters say feels like you state it as fact for everyone, and that certainly isn't so. A lot of us love what is here. Surely what is here isn't for everyone, but you can always revert to a16. Isn't that reason enough to still love it if you love a16?

 

Two points here:

 

I agree that people may be pretty emotional about this game. I have been, only because I got extremely bored with A17. It's just too easy do EVERYTHING. Making difficulty sliders and what not is cool. But artificially making the game "harder" is not for me personally. I'll continue to check back on other updates. But, for now, I'm just done playing for a bit.

 

Next point. I really enjoyed A16.4, but it's not easy for me to move backwards in the game knowing that I am missing out on cool POIs, new vehicles, etc. So again, that is why I'm just hanging it up for a bit hoping to see something better (IMO) in the next few alphas.

[andrewcu]

i Love almost everything about the update. Few things i absolutely do not like are below. With that said however, i am still a fan of the game and with forever be one.

 

1. Death penalty (Maybe make this an optional setting for those who like it)

2. Zed OP'd. Why are they able to break through steel like its paper???? To me, it limits the kind of bases you can make

3. Dungeon POI's are amazing! Having hidden zeds around every corner makes looting no fun for me (Again, maybe make POI zombies an optional setting, or maybe make a seperate difficulty setting for it?)

[Damocles]

About the roof-fall zombies: a general delay in floorplates disintegrating would solve the unfair situation. Floor makes a lout crack sound, but gives way 1 second later. Enough time for the experienced player to jump backwards.