Please GET RID of Alpha 17

[Kattla]

Quite a while ago I played one mod where they took it to the extreme.

There were like 50 different skills to grind up.

 

No. Just no.

 

But 52 is allright, yes?

[Dicey]

I have 2k + hours in this game. I began to play in a15. The game has improved heaps and bounds since then. A16 was a great improvment. And judging by the Experimental so to A17 a great improvement. Lots has changed but most of it (imo) for the better. a15 was easy street, a16 was not as easy but still relatively so. A17 seems to be challenging and this is good.

 

For those who don't like the fight against the zombies, well there is always No Zombie mode or minecraft? ..This is a Zombie Apocalypse themed Survival Crafting game!..

 

Even with the changes the game for me is not so tough, I can understand how it might be for new players.. but hey why not? If they do not like a challenge then hell they probably wouldnt survivew in a Zombie Apocalypse anyway, so be it.

 

I wholeheartedly LOVE the changes, I think it is nt fair to say the devs spent time only on textures or looks.. have you even seen all the new pois!? all the new models!? all the new trees, which by the way some of provide nice cover for a underground base entrance!!

 

Yes I live underground and it isnt hard to surface and kill zeds when needed, and I have a base to fight the horde, all is good. I am lvl 16 im current game and the only thing that is really different atm is I don't have a forge.. and besides making some Forged Iron to repair my iron tools, I don't see the need for a forge yet. all is good.

 

Great Job TFP !!!

 

The only suggestion I have besides the obvious post-experimental stuff is.. Maybe increase the ammount of XP you get for killing each zombie.. by mbe 1/4 or 1/2.. this will make the game a little faster but hey i love it as said.

 

GG

[LuckyStar]

Seriously this thread is still going?

 

The OP has one freaking post!

 

ONE!

 

Clearly it's just some ranting.

They don't sound particularly invested in the game all at.

 

How did so many people bite this hook?

 

[Poojam]

I wasn't going to respond until you called those of us who actually like a challenge + the idea of survival and such "fanbois". They've broken records with concurrent player counts, forums blowing up with excitement, players who quit during a16 return to play again (myself included). I see that's a common trend in those who liked the zombies being as much of a threat as water killing you in a rain-storm, reaching end-game on day 2, and generally wanted the game to be a casual stroll in the park sight-seeing game: anyone else who likes 17 are "fanbois" and are clearly "wrong" or "lel fookin hardcore elitist ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥". You called anyone who enjoys 17 fanbois, yet mad about "dissenting voices aren't welcome here".

 

>Snip By OzHawkeye - Keep it civil please<

 

What records of concurrent playercounts are you referring to?

 

Peak player count was 32,518 in June of 2017. Peak player count the weekend after Thanksgiving was 27,328. That week was timed to coincide with the streaming events, several days of steam sales at $9/copy, and release of A17e which boasted high numbers.

 

Even though I and several others have requested data on this subject, no one has come forth with the % of players that are playing A17e versus default which is A16.4. Without knowing this, it is very difficult to say anything about representation/success of A17e. I suspect it's more likely the player counts are high because of the several days of steam sales (67% off) over a holiday weekend and less to do with the new version, but I don't really know.

 

It is always cyclical with 7DTD where the weekends are the peak player counts. But you should also make note that the peak player count is now 25% lower than what it was over Thanksgiving holiday (20,434). That's a pretty steep decline in just a couple of weeks.

[Kam R.]

Seriously this thread is still going?

 

The OP has one freaking post!

 

ONE!

 

Clearly it's just some ranting.

They don't sound particularly invested in the game all at.

 

How did so many people bite this hook?

 

 

Great clickbait title is great.

It makes me snicker everytime I see it in the thread list.

[PoppaTot]

I have 2k + hours in this game. I began to play in a15. The game has improved heaps and bounds since then. A16 was a great improvment. And judging by the Experimental so to A17 a great improvement. Lots has changed but most of it (imo) for the better. a15 was easy street, a16 was not as easy but still relatively so. A17 seems to be challenging and this is good.

 

For those who don't like the fight against the zombies, well there is always No Zombie mode or minecraft? ..This is a Zombie Apocalypse themed Survival Crafting game!..

 

Even with the changes the game for me is not so tough, I can understand how it might be for new players.. but hey why not? If they do not like a challenge then hell they probably wouldnt survivew in a Zombie Apocalypse anyway, so be it.

 

I wholeheartedly LOVE the changes, I think it is nt fair to say the devs spent time only on textures or looks.. have you even seen all the new pois!? all the new models!? all the new trees, which by the way some of provide nice cover for a underground base entrance!!

 

Yes I live underground and it isnt hard to surface and kill zeds when needed, and I have a base to fight the horde, all is good. I am lvl 16 im current game and the only thing that is really different atm is I don't have a forge.. and besides making some Forged Iron to repair my iron tools, I don't see the need for a forge yet. all is good.

 

Great Job TFP !!!

 

The only suggestion I have besides the obvious post-experimental stuff is.. Maybe increase the ammount of XP you get for killing each zombie.. by mbe 1/4 or 1/2.. this will make the game a little faster but hey i love it as said.

 

GG

 

Not blasting your opinion at all, just curious if this is your first playthrough and have not gotten past your current level yet. The reason I ask is because you ask to make the zombie XP higher to speed the game up? A lot have the opinion, myself included, that the game is too fast at the moment. By day 30-50 (depending on your XP grind) you're level 100+ and there is nothing left to do?

[ivailogeimara]

Of course not!

In A16 there were plenty of times where I had skill points stacking up and nothing useful to buy. That clearly did not work.

 

In A17 I have the same problem in multiplayer. I can always spend the points I have but I don't want to spend them on the skills that are available. So sometimes I just end up with 20-35 points waiting to me level up so I can level the skill I want. I don't want to be Jack of all trades. I want to specialize in some skills (sooner than others). People have different play styles. Your play style works better with the new system. My play style works better with the old.

[LuckyStar]

Great clickbait title is great.

It makes me snicker everytime I see it in the thread list.

 

Fair enough.

 

[ivailogeimara]

1. With the extensive feedback he provided, I'm quite positive I'm correct about my assumptions. And we have what? 20 people posting they doin't like A17? Meanwhile, 20.000 playes it. Perception bias of vocal minority.

 

That point really pisses me off whenever I see it. I for example don't like the A17 skill system (one of the main people complains). It's really game breaking for me. But I STILL PLAY A17. PLAYING A17 DOESN'T MEAN I/YOU LIKE EVERYTHING ABOUT THE A17!!!!!!!!. So I'm one of the people that like everything about the new alpha? From your logic I must be. I'm one of the 20k players.

[Guppycur]

Quite a while ago I played one mod where they took it to the extreme.

There were like 50 different skills to grind up.

 

No. Just no.

 

Again, doing it right, is key. Half ass like tfp had it, overboard like some mods have it, no...

 

...it has to be done right.

 

Speaking of, it can't currently be modded, hopefully that gets fixed.

[LuckyStar]

Again, doing it right, is key. Half ass like tfp had it, overboard like some mods have it, no...

 

...it has to be done right.

 

Speaking of, it can't currently be modded, hopefully that gets fixed.

 

Agreed on both points.

 

A Hybrid with the right balance could utilize the A17 system and bring back the best part of the A16 system.

I think it would be wonderful!

 

Also, it should be Moddable.

 

Why isn't "moddable" a word yet?

 

We have turnt and that word makes me wince.

 

I DEMAND all modding related words be made formal.

 

 

Can... you ... fix that also, TFP?

That would be really nice, thanks.

 

[Ghostlight]

I had stopped playing alpha 16 but alpha 17 has sparked my interest again because it actually makes the game difficult. 16 on the hardest settings was still baby mode, now I am actually worried about going into buildings and taking my time. I hated that I could basically have all I needed to survive after about 3 days, now it actually takes some work and that is brilliant!

 

Heh. I assume you have not gotten that far in A17 then since after the first week or so (which is harder, I grant you) becomes by far the easiest the game has ever been. Not only does the player become maxed out and OP by day 30 (earlier than this ever happened in previous alphas by about 70 days), but the shambolic perk system means you can craft every single item in the game guaranteed (never been in previous alphas). LOL. You don't even need to explore any more, how kind of the devs. Basically they dumbed it all down for a casual audience.

 

OP's thread title may be clickbait but I can't help think just how much of a superior game A17 would have been if they had just kept to A16 and added the AI, graphics, vehicles, some of the POIs and NOTHING ELSE.

 

That would have been a far superior, deeper, less casual and more fun game.

[SnowDog1942]

Again, doing it right, is key. Half ass like tfp had it, overboard like some mods have it, no...

 

...it has to be done right.

 

Speaking of, it can't currently be modded, hopefully that gets fixed.

 

"Right" meaning to your personal preference?

[Guppycur]

"Right" meaning to your personal preference?

 

Naturally.

 

But, 10 out of 10 guppys agree that my way is the best.

[LuckyStar]

"Right" meaning to your personal preference?

 

 

 

Pick your battles.

 

What I got from his message is more of a focus on balancing and making the game enjoyable to the target audience and maintaining what the developer intended.

 

See this is why context is important.

I feel like you've ignored that and are just looking to pick a fight.

 

Naturally.

 

But, 10 out of 10 guppys agree that my way is the best.

 

 

 

Guppy you aren't helping.

 

I am trying to say what you meant and you're undermining me by speaking.

 

[SnowDog1942]

Naturally.

 

But, 10 out of 10 guppys agree that my way is the best.

 

Lol nice

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Pick your battles.

 

What I got from his message is more of a focus on balancing and making the game enjoyable to the target audience and maintaining what the developer intended.

 

See this is why context is important.

I feel like you've ignored that and are just looking to pick a fight.

 

Im a lover, not a fighter.

 

Guppy can take it, he knows me by now

[Ghostlight]

No, you're not. You choose to do the exact same thing every time.

 

I guess you could spend your points differently in a specific run, but why would you? It would just make the early game more inefficient and tedious than it already is. And by God is it tedious, even if you spend your points in the obvious order.

[LuckyStar]

 

Guppy can take it, he knows me by now

 

Yeah truth be told I think he actually thrives on a small amount of abuse.

 

 

[Syrex]

Saw a post on the encumbrance -- going the "weight" route would definitely not be in our interest.. Mining, building, and other things would kill the player in the weight dept. I feel backpacks should be an item. You start with the starter backpack, you either find a new one (or with the mod item theme, find mods to add space). This new way that's introduced is annoying, but managable.. I mean I CAN choose not to fill those spot(s) that will begin the annoyance or i can deal with it.

 

I agree with, I believe it was Guppy's post, that if i sit there and craft a million stone axes I should be a pro at just stone axes, not marksman rifles / bows, etc.. XP for doing.. but that could be argued as another grind avenue. I don't like having the majority of xp (to get perks) gained by killing (and selling to trader) and the rest of my day count for pretty much nothin (but I'm aware that a balance is in the works). I do miss (though at the time i know I found it to be a RNG pain) finding schematics and recipes for alot of the items. It gave that ooh-ahh tingly I found IT feeling. And with the many key items that there are, it happened alot. It could be worse, we could have a Path of Exile skill tree LOL..

 

I truly do not like the map setup, I liked the diversity of biomes even if it was a run up the road to the next biome type thing, ok maybe a little bigger biomes haha. And yes, the RWG could definitely use some love (but Mr. K is on it I hear (or will be))

 

Too sum up, I went more than i intended (and believe it or not I could keep going), I like the potential that a17 has (at least in my eyes). I wouldn't wanna start over again anytime soon (that initial startup dragggggs, dang stamina), but I cant wait to see the finished product that i suspect isn't happening anytime soon (unless TFP sidelines certain things for later visitation).

[Feycat]

I respectfully disagree with some of this. OK, there are choices to not farm zombies for XP, not sustainable choices though. Alternative path to iron tools... trader? quest? or, farm zombies for a few days and get a forge and make them at will with most likely what would be a better level. Food? your edit makes sense since I've also found animal to be abundant, literally find multiple almost daily while farming zombies, then perk into metabolism and food is now an afterthought. I am aware they working on "balance" for the XP, but we won't know anything until that finalized. I do think TFP should bring back gun parts and books because, to me, RNG made this game great!

 

Traders carry iron tools constantly, as well as forged iron and steel to repair them. My friends and I have iron tools by day 2-3 at the latest because when we hit our "find the trader" stage, we grab quests and go do them. If we don't loot enough tools/weapons, then we buy them with quest Dukes. We've also gotten levels from the quests and the zombies we've killed on the way/during.

 

If your trader has a working forge, even better. You can have iron tools pretty much immediately.

 

And I very much prefer being able to build guns whole and not have an entire storage box dedicated to gun parts and juggling upgrades. Screw that. I can make a green gun whole. Then I can make a blue one and sell the green one to the trader for Dukes and buy ammo, gunpowder, plastics, whatever I need.

 

I used to have Dukes just stacking up. There are so many things in A16 that I used to have scads of just taking up space. So many bones, flesh, fat. So much useless dirt. So many gun parts. Stacks of duct tape.

 

Now I actually NEED my dukes. I buy resources that I used to ignore, like tape and gunpowder. I actually ran out of plastics and we had to go on a wrenching run while we quested!

 

It's harder, but much more interesting.

[PoppaTot]

Traders carry iron tools constantly, as well as forged iron and steel to repair them. My friends and I have iron tools by day 2-3 at the latest because when we hit our "find the trader" stage, we grab quests and go do them. If we don't loot enough tools/weapons, then we buy them with quest Dukes. We've also gotten levels from the quests and the zombies we've killed on the way/during.

 

If your trader has a working forge, even better. You can have iron tools pretty much immediately.

 

And I very much prefer being able to build guns whole and not have an entire storage box dedicated to gun parts and juggling upgrades. Screw that. I can make a green gun whole. Then I can make a blue one and sell the green one to the trader for Dukes and buy ammo, gunpowder, plastics, whatever I need.

 

I used to have Dukes just stacking up. There are so many things in A16 that I used to have scads of just taking up space. So many bones, flesh, fat. So much useless dirt. So many gun parts. Stacks of duct tape.

 

Now I actually NEED my dukes. I buy resources that I used to ignore, like tape and gunpowder. I actually ran out of plastics and we had to go on a wrenching run while we quested!

 

It's harder, but much more interesting.

 

But if you were to just grind XP you'd have your forge day 3 or 4 still have all those Dukes to spend on the resources you needed.

 

Don't get me wrong, I totally get what you're saying. However; you won't get me to agree that hoping my trader has iron tools day 1 or 2 and forged iron to buy (or a forge) is a better option than just power leveling to the forge.

 

I did enjoy the gun part system, but not relevant to our discord now. The problem with selling the guns is that I almost always have a box full of useless guns now that I have to wait for the traders to actually buy. And after level 30ish, I just scrap them if I find them and they are worse than what I have. If I want dukes, I'll just use that forge I got on day 3-4 and cook up some iron or steel... Dukes for days lol.

[4sheetzngeegles]

Things personally noticed about A17.

 

1 Shaders 100% better, depth of field, the inclusion

of more billboard distant assets increased my performance.

Legacy devices reused +1 Separation of the pine vs oak

process.+1

 

2 Dungeon crawler Pois, lot of work added, enhanced by the

shader detail.+1 Overemphasis on quantity of breaking boards.-1

But overall a posittive start. Random location rotation of

containers and modular furniture for more variation.

 

3 Vulture animation, over exxagerated, The looming shadow and

attack sequence priceless. +1 But the actual animated flight

directional change is too mechanical and abrupt. It's mainly in

the soaring sequence. -1

 

4 AI pathfinding perfect to the point of night sweats. +5 The

Bionic jump acceptable as part of the pathing ai but strange

visual. Height fall damage, compromise maybe. Sleeper

leaps from sleeper location. damage. intentional exploited 100

meter drop not so much. +/-

 

5 Lighting, too constricted now, value gamma, and white fixed too

high as default. -1 The relocation of FalloffRange in dll, Blocks

the addative to xml to fine tune light emmission. Offset partially

by the inclusion of the light editor, in world editor, nice but.

Does not override even when applied to a master light.

 

6 Entity color refers back to light, too bright if gamma lowered to 7

then begins to look like subtle shades. -1

 

7 vehicles +1

 

8 mods, no real opinion I only ever used 2 scope and sound suppressor.

 

9 Progression, in prior, Id invest in two, and let the points accrue til

later. "scavenging quality, and quality joe" In a17 i just invest in

anything that deals with headshot. The encumbrance reduction is not an

investment its a forced amount nec for qol. I have to invest to be able

to cook even if i have the parts, In beginning the first quest has you

to build a campfire as the last item. Says you now have basic skills for

survival. But you can't cook an egg, finding recipes, for the new inclusions

would suit me better than, forced point investment to cook.

I have yet to figure how many points are arbitrarily needed to make a

first aid bandage. There is a loss of symbiotic flow, between game play and

skill progression and or levels. Its a different manner of micromanaging.

Example some things are common knowledge, advanced creation can be associated

directly with your level, at 10 cook tier 1 etc. natural progression.

as a ref Jax, did Ravenhurst, it felt smooth as far as what you learned. -3

 

10 Rwg: This is from personal opinion so disregard if you like.

It is not random, The cities are dependant upon the splat3.png to generate.

The pois are manually placed in the prefabs.xml for placement.

Always following the same pattern an X nw to se ne to sw.

The Radiation border, encroaches upon the normal map. -1

The offset to above i the ability to Really customize the terrain after

initial creation. +5 Creative landscape potential unbound.

Random comes from manual placement in the biomes file, not random. -1

The biomes can be rearranged. +1

The ability to paint roads variable width. +1

Once you have done a good template you can use it as a basis for the next seed

if worldmap is the same size. +5 Potential

a16 is now legacy, Combining the Dtm.tga layout with Rwg2 Hub placement, may

work better.

 

11 Graphics Moddability: The terrain and block textures are locked in the

array for now, the lighting is locked in the single instance of light editor.

-5

 

Overall opinion: I will balance a few of the negatives above for myself.

Shaders, and use of the Unity resources beyond just default settings, better,

Gameplay, once balanced, Never really faced leveling or gating till now, will

be ok.

C#blocked textures lighting terrain and random placement new learning

curve introduced.

Unlocking the ability for me to make my own apocalyptic terrain now Priceless to me.

Poi conversion import export. +5 Wish we could xfer no matter the version. TO inc

THe BOTB for the past versions.

Key phrase more subtlty, less in your face, bull in china shop.

[KhaineGB]

Traders carry iron tools constantly, as well as forged iron and steel to repair them. My friends and I have iron tools by day 2-3 at the latest because when we hit our "find the trader" stage, we grab quests and go do them. If we don't loot enough tools/weapons, then we buy them with quest Dukes. We've also gotten levels from the quests and the zombies we've killed on the way/during.

 

If your trader has a working forge, even better. You can have iron tools pretty much immediately.

 

And I very much prefer being able to build guns whole and not have an entire storage box dedicated to gun parts and juggling upgrades. Screw that. I can make a green gun whole. Then I can make a blue one and sell the green one to the trader for Dukes and buy ammo, gunpowder, plastics, whatever I need.

 

I used to have Dukes just stacking up. There are so many things in A16 that I used to have scads of just taking up space. So many bones, flesh, fat. So much useless dirt. So many gun parts. Stacks of duct tape.

 

Now I actually NEED my dukes. I buy resources that I used to ignore, like tape and gunpowder. I actually ran out of plastics and we had to go on a wrenching run while we quested!

 

It's harder, but much more interesting.

 

This is pretty much what I do as well. Do a few buried supplies quests or clear zombies quests, get weapons from quest rewards, take the perk to get more quest rewards, sell what I don't need and just buy tools.

 

I pretty much only loot on the way to the POI, the POI itself and then just go back to the trader.

[streaml1ne]

OP's thread title may be clickbait but I can't help think just how much of a superior game A17 would have been if they had just kept to A16 and added the AI, graphics, vehicles, some of the POIs and NOTHING ELSE.

 

That would have been a far superior, deeper, less casual and more fun game.

 

I'm in this camp at the moment. A17 vacillates between super easy and ludicrously hard with a constant background of stamina/resource gathering tediousness. Within 4 days I had forges, every weapon and hundreds of rounds of found ammunition. Zombies die super easy even to stone arrows from plain bows. At the same time I walked into a POI today that spawned 6 ferals the combination of which ate 60 rounds of 9mm, a bunch of shotgun shells and arrows and 5 rockets and didn't die. I can't see long term games being much of a thing anymore. Everything tied to character levels is boring once you get a minimum set of perks bought. At least the old way you had to explore for recipes and whatnot. They should have taken what you wrote above and removed more default recipes and put them into books/magazines/whatever that you had to find to unlock them. I'd also have kept weapon parts/combining and just added mods vs the new system.

 

edit: 850 hours in game from about A13 on. Not that it matters, but I've got significant time in the game.

[Wut]

IMO (and I am entitled to my opinion) the game has gone downhill every patch since after A9. Sure some neat, new little things get added, but the performance, bugs, and exploits just get worse with every patch. A9 was the pinnacle of decent gameplay, fun pvp/raiding and good FPS without major bug/dupe issues and that's why I enjoyed my time in this game the most at that patch level.

 

Most people I know who play have already given up on A17 too. The next patch should be entirely focused on making A17 not bad, rather than adding new broken things to the game that also don't get fixed til the next patch after that, if ever.

 

This is not a flame 'gloom and doom' post so don't freak out, Roland. I'm just not happy with how the last 4 (!) years have gone for this game. It's clearly become too ambitious of a project for a very small team without tons of money. I've definitely gotten my money's worth out of this game, but what I really want is to refund the time I've spent having hope for this game post-A9.