Please GET RID of Alpha 17

[beHypE]

1. With the extensive feedback he provided, I'm quite positive I'm correct about my assumptions. And we have what? 20 people posting they doin't like A17? Meanwhile, 20.000 playes it. Perception bias of vocal minority.

 

To be fair, your bias is just as bad as the one you're criticizing. People may not enjoy A17 as much as A16 or at least not as much as they thought they would, that doesn't mean they aren't still currently playing (because it just got released and people want to try it out extensively). Nor does everyone that dislikes it come in here to talk about it. Out of those 20K players, a lot may actually play because of the novelty of the release but won't spend much time playing in the future once they feel like they have seen everything new there's to see in A17. Furthemore, you say 20K players do play it, but how many tried and currently don't ?

 

Not trying to argue about numbers here, but I just wanted to point out your argument doesn't rely on any safe and 100% objective numbers either.

[Morloc]

With all due respect to The pimps, there are way more "negative ninnies" regarding a17 than any other alpha.

 

I've been wondering about that. What's your theory there Guppy? (Why so many for A17?)

I've also noticed that those "negative ninnies" have really lowered the bar with regard to these rant-posts. Feels like 95% drama and only 5% of identifiable issues that can be discussed.

 

 

-Morloc

[WolfyBlah]

No, you're not. You choose to do the exact same thing every time.

But that's fine. You do you.

 

So heres a quick list of all the stuff i feel i *have* to take for the game to be enjoyable:

 

- pack mule - this needs to be maxed for the game to be fun and not a chore, we had a good sized inventory in a16 and now we have bugger all space and these encumbrance slots which suck (feather weighs more than a stack of concrete depending which slot its in), id actually be highly in support of an encumbrance system if its done properly (lose the grid based inventory and assign everything weight) as it stands though it sucks big time.

 

- +harvest skills (motherload) - fairly obvious one, harvesting ♥♥♥♥ ammounts of resources from things is tedious as hell, these skills all need to be maxed for the game not to feel like a grind.

 

- Miner69er - i like to build in this game and it usualy involves some digging or mining, this perk is not optinal, without it mining takes even longer. (Its currently about 3x as slow in a17e with max level compared to a16)

 

- health and stamina - honestly a16 had this handled waaaay better with the wellness system, at current nobody is going to choose to have ♥♥♥♥ stamina so all skills around its max (god this is awful, id rather see it tied directly to player level than some 'optional perks') or regen are basicly mandatory

 

Combat damage - be it ranged or melee you have to take somthing to increase your damage because if you dont it will forever take you 5 attacks to kill a single zombie, bullet sponges aint fun and at present weapons only really work well if you take the perk and without are not worth using, some kind of damage boost is required for the game to not be a spongey mess. (Also WTF happened to headshots doing decent damage, this needs to be the case all the time, not only when you are level 100 and taken the relevant perks)

 

- crafting recipes - given that i tend to play most solo, these are not optional, i need to be able to craft things to enjoy the game.

 

Weather survival - i usualy disable this feature via console, it never added any fun to the game, just micro managing clothing but if i was unable to disable it then the perks that basically turn it off would feel mandatory too.

 

So... how am i supposed to choose anything diffrent? None of these feel like choices.

[Gazz]

If that's the only way you play then you are correct.

You can only pick those specific perks just like you could only buy the same perks in the same order in A16.

No game with multiple skill trees will ever offer any choice to you.

[Guppycur]

I've been wondering about that. What's your theory there Guppy? (Why so many for A17?)

I've also noticed that those "negative ninnies" have really lowered the bar with regard to these rant-posts. Feels like 95% drama and only 5% of identifiable issues that can be discussed.

 

 

-Morloc

 

Level gating, pure and simple. It's dumb, and although you're right, clearly there is a segment that can't articulate their problem with it, yet the problem still exists. No one likes artificial gating. And especially after waiting a YEAR+ for an update? I think people expected "more", not less.

 

And removing the /ability/ to mod "xp gain by doing" back in? Well, it just makes the entire game feel like an artificial FPS RPG. Might as well as kept the health bars back in. We have bouncy graphic icons for quests, magically resetting poi's, stats and perks no one really understands, and level gating.

[PoppaTot]

Level gating, pure and simple. It's dumb, and although you're right, clearly there is a segment that can't articulate their problem with it, yet the problem still exists. No one likes artificial gating. And especially after waiting a YEAR+ for an update? I think people expected "more", not less.

 

And removing the /ability/ to mod "xp gain by doing" back in? Well, it just makes the entire game feel like an artificial FPS RPG. Might as well as kept the health bars back in. We have bouncy graphic icons for quests, magically resetting poi's, stats and perks no one really understands, and level gating.

 

This^^^ well said sir

[HerrKingsley]

I've been wondering about that. What's your theory there Guppy? (Why so many for A17?)

I've also noticed that those "negative ninnies" have really lowered the bar with regard to these rant-posts. Feels like 95% drama and only 5% of identifiable issues that can be discussed.

 

 

-Morloc

 

Probably because there has been so many changes both fundamentally and at large.

 

GS ramps up way faster.

POI's have more Zombies, jump scares and traps

Perksystem is "grind one buy all"

#levelgate

RGW is smaller flatter and have less biomes.

Building is way slower

Zombies destroys blocks in minutes

Weapon system is changed at large

Loot and zombie loot is changed at large

Schematics are fundamentally changed

Performance seems to be lower for some

 

That are a lot of topics to disagree on.

[WolfyBlah]

If that's the only way you play then you are correct.

You can only pick those specific perks just like you could only buy the same perks in the same order in A16.

No game with multiple skill trees will ever offer any choice to you.

 

Im actualy a fan of skill trees in other games, absolutely love path of exiles passive tree. I like a lot of RPGs, however this is 7 days to die, its not a game i play for its RPG elements its a game i play to build cool bases to test vs 7th day hordes, to be honest this RPG lite system is just strangling all the fun out of what used to be my favourite building game.

[Morloc]

Level gating, pure and simple. It's dumb, and although you're right, clearly there is a segment that can't articulate their problem with it, yet the problem still exists. No one likes artificial gating. And especially after waiting a YEAR+ for an update? I think people expected "more", not less.

 

And removing the /ability/ to mod "xp gain by doing" back in? Well, it just makes the entire game feel like an artificial FPS RPG. Might as well as kept the health bars back in. We have bouncy graphic icons for quests, magically resetting poi's, stats and perks no one really understands, and level gating.

 

 

I guess I may be one of the few who just doesn't care about level gating very much. Gaining skills through use is more immersive and correct, but it does lead to weird grinding the same way there's experience grinding. Humping cacti for Armor, making crates of bandages for Science, digging a tunnel to Jamaica for mining skills. In the end, they're still artificial, and need to be overlooked for the sake of gameplay. It might be nice to have a combination where the base skills were raised through use and the perks gated by character level AND skill level (still purchased with earned points).

 

Magically resetting POIs is a problem. Nothing more fun than exploiting the snots out of a bookshop by clearing it out, then doing so again immediately after activating a quest. BUT....it does solve the problem of POI destruction by gnawing zombies. With the size of the maps, it wouldn't take long before you started to notice the impact of your presence on the landscape. The resetting POIs keep some of the scenery intact, and provide a renewable source of things like brass and car parts. I think we perhaps need fewer special POIs relative to the old standard sort, but there are (temporary) issues with the RWG as I understand it.

 

The bouncy quest markers made me chuckle. Perhaps a spinning Jolly Roger?

 

"stats and perks no one really understands..." .....yeah, that. Stamina is pretty mysterious to me (I could be wrong). I mean, this ~might~ be good, because it seems like the rate of recharge is a VERY complicated formula. Health, thirst, hunger, perks, disease/debuffs, activity. Then there's "stamina damage" which I thought was the same as hunger, but now I'm not so sure...lol.

 

 

Other than the temporary RWG woes, I think my biggest issue was leaving behind the more complex quality system on gear. Swinging a pickaxe used to combine item base quality (down to the exact number, and yes...I know...rounding) with your stamina, perks, and current item repair to determine the damage you did with a swing. Even with the mods, things feel more "flat" now when computing these things....it'd be nice if they brought back some of the robust elements of the old system to the new one.

 

-Morloc

[DaVegaNL]

I actually like not being able to craft/create something until you reach a certain level. In A16 I was able to make iron tools on day 2, and most of my games ran for maybe 2 weeks?

[PoppaTot]

I guess I may be one of the few who just doesn't care about level gating very much. Gaining skills through use is more immersive and correct, but it does lead to weird grinding the same way there's experience grinding. Humping cacti for Armor, making crates of bandages for Science, digging a tunnel to Jamaica for mining skills. In the end, they're still artificial, and need to be overlooked for the sake of gameplay.

 

-Morloc

 

Here's the thing with those though, it was your choice as the player to exploit those or not (I chose not to). Now there is no choice. Want to level? Farm them zambies bro. lol

[manni44]

Im actualy a fan of skill trees in other games, absolutely love path of exiles passive tree. I like a lot of RPGs, however this is 7 days to die, its not a game i play for its RPG elements its a game i play to build cool bases to test vs 7th day hordes, to be honest this RPG lite system is just strangling all the fun out of what used to be my favourite building game.

 

i 100% agree. im used to build fancy Bases i spend hours building and had alot of fun. all u do now i grinding some stone and wood to put something together to survive the horde. i would love to se better yields harvesting

[DaVegaNL]

Level gating, pure and simple. It's dumb, and although you're right, clearly there is a segment that can't articulate their problem with it, yet the problem still exists. No one likes artificial gating. And especially after waiting a YEAR+ for an update? I think people expected "more", not less.

 

And removing the /ability/ to mod "xp gain by doing" back in? Well, it just makes the entire game feel like an artificial FPS RPG. Might as well as kept the health bars back in. We have bouncy graphic icons for quests, magically resetting poi's, stats and perks no one really understands, and level gating.

 

Is there any other way to gate thing besides artificial gating? Honestly wondering. I do like the way the levels play a role now.

[Melen]

So if alpha 17 is the way 7days will be i have 2 full servers of people that already Quit.. Normally you update games for better NOT FOR WORST as alpha 17 did.. i mean what did you think... i dont even know what to say anymore EVERY NEW FEATURE is a failure.. besides the rides and still anyway since i have nothing positive to say i ll just end here and hope that all this was just a bad dream...

 

Speak for yourself. Except for the bugs, I like the direction it's going in. I don't have a fully functional base in 5-6 days that can withstand a horde. I like that. I like not essentially hitting "end game" in a few hours of play. I like that zombies are dangerous again, and not just decoration that doesn't really do things. Melee works for the most part now. Hordes have danger associated with them again. If you're not prepared, they will knock the building right out from underneath you. That's pretty awesome because prior to A17 exp, hordes were not even a concern.

 

The level gating is annoying and needs to be address, and there's a bunch of other bugs (falling through the world on bikes, etc), but we are talking about an experimental of an alpha. Maybe your expectations are too high and you shouldn't be playing the exp version.

 

Ultimately, there's a ton of modding potential here, so once it's stable and released I'm sure there'll be a ton of modlet collections that will change things the way you'd like.

 

I just don't get the "every feature is a failure" posts. Y'all are all about the drama.

[PoppaTot]

Hordes have danger associated with them again. If you're not prepared, they will knock the building right out from underneath you. That's pretty awesome because prior to A17 exp, hordes were not even a concern.

 

Still just as easy to path the hordes away from your base and conga line them.

 

The level gating is annoying and needs to be address, and there's a bunch of other bugs (falling through the world on bikes, etc), but we are talking about an experimental of an alpha. Maybe your expectations are too high and you shouldn't be playing the exp version.

 

The reason we have so much input right now on the forums is because it is EXPERIMENTAL lol

 

I just don't get the "every feature is a failure" posts. Y'all are all about the drama.

 

Agreed, there are good points as well. Drama is drama lol

[Guppycur]

Is there any other way to gate thing besides artificial gating? Honestly wondering. I do like the way the levels play a role now.

 

People complain that XP by Use could be grinded etc, but that's because when it was in, it was STILL implemented wrong.

 

You should gain XP in something /only/ by doing it... I should have /never/ been able to make a killer bow because I spam crafted stone axes... I SHOULD have been able to make a killer stone axe by spamming stone axes, but not a bow...

[Pizzalicious]

Is what it is. I personally am interested in what the modders are going to do. One of my servers may end up being modded if they dont work out the RWG stuff/LCB issue.

[Jan2607]

Please GET RID of Alpha 17

 

No.

 

I like the new Alpha. Sure, it needs some more bug fixes and some balancing, but it's an Experimental version, so this will happen.

And I know that many, many people like it, too. Why do I know this? Well, look at the Steam shop page. Since A17E the reviews went from mostly positive (79%) to very positive (87%).

The people who complain seem to be the minority. A noisy minority, because people tend to write about stuff only when they don't like it. That's the reason why we find so many negative reviews on the forums. But overall the players like 7D2D as it is in A17E.

Because of this and because the devs won't undo all the work they had done in the last 18 months, you can be sure that they won't get rid of A17, no matter how much some people complain about it.

 

What you can do is to deliver some specific feedback, what features need some tweaks.

[JDogg126]

So if alpha 17 is the way 7days will be i have 2 full servers of people that already Quit.. Normally you update games for better NOT FOR WORST as alpha 17 did.. i mean what did you think... i dont even know what to say anymore EVERY NEW FEATURE is a failure.. besides the rides and still anyway since i have nothing positive to say i ll just end here and hope that all this was just a bad dream...

 

There is always a risk with kick starter backed and early access games that the game that gets created is not the game you actually wanted. As this process has gone on over the last few years, we see alpha builds with place holder features, we see alphas with false starts, etc. The devs are working towards the game *they* want to create even if it means people who fell in love with incomplete or placeholder or false start features get disappointed.

[ktr]

Here's the thing with those though, it was your choice as the player to exploit those or not (I chose not to). Now there is no choice. Want to level? Farm them zambies bro. lol

 

It's still our choice whether or not to farm zombies. I understand there are a lot of people who feel like they have to and why - zombies give much higher xp than other available options. But those options still exist and, personally, I've felt no need to go on a zombo killing spree expressly to level. In fact, my general playing style has become less 'kill the zombies' in A17 than otherwise.

 

The slower rate of materials gathering and the need to find alternate paths to iron tools early on has lead me to worry more about securing my food first (a concern I only had in A16 due to me being the main food hunter/gatherer in a group of six), and then my base because I can't just spend half a day hacking trees and have enough wood to lay down a sea of spikes. I've got to plan better, manage my time better, and look for other options.

 

I'm not entirely happy with certain aspects (I think the heavy reliance on RNG as alternate source needs to be altered a bit though I'm not sure of the best way to do that) but, IMO, farming is farming is farming whether I'm killing zombies to level or upgrading random blocks because my construction skill isn't high enough to buy the Steel Perk yet. I do think either zombie xp needs to be lowered or the amount of xp from other sources need to be upped (or both and we've been told this is being looked at and changed) and some of the level gates either need to be lowered (thank you bicycle) or alternate sources are more reliable. Perhaps the combination of the two will reduce the feeling of the 'need' to grind zombies.

 

I tend to like the concept of 'earn by doing' systems the best and can certainly understand why other people miss the old system. (I do too, to some degree.) However, I've played a lot of game that try that and every single one had glaring problems that resulted in the need to exploit the system, otherwise 'naturally' leveling some aspects worked fine while others either skyrocketed ahead to the point of being OP or lagged so far behind they were useless. Maybe those kinds of systems are just too unweildly or complicated to balance easily. If that's the case, then I'd rather have a simplified system that can be tweaked and added onto easily instead of one that's always painfully out of whack.

 

Edit: I should add that food gathering is relatively easy in A17. After a couple of days, I seem to get quite the haul.

[PoppaTot]

It's still our choice whether or not to farm zombies. I understand there are a lot of people who feel like they have to and why - zombies give much higher xp than other available options. But those options still exist and, personally, I've felt no need to go on a zombo killing spree expressly to level. In fact, my general playing style has become less 'kill the zombies' in A17 than otherwise.

 

The slower rate of materials gathering and the need to find alternate paths to iron tools early on has lead me to worry more about securing my food first (a concern I only had in A16 due to me being the main food hunter/gatherer in a group of six), and then my base because I can't just spend half a day hacking trees and have enough wood to lay down a sea of spikes. I've got to plan better, manage my time better, and look for other options.

 

I'm not entirely happy with certain aspects (I think the heavy reliance on RNG as alternate source needs to be altered a bit though I'm not sure of the best way to do that) but, IMO, farming is farming is farming whether I'm killing zombies to level or upgrading random blocks because my construction skill isn't high enough to buy the Steel Perk yet. I do think either zombie xp needs to be lowered or the amount of xp from other sources need to be upped (or both and we've been told this is being looked at and changed) and some of the level gates either need to be lowered (thank you bicycle) or alternate sources are more reliable. Perhaps the combination of the two will reduce the feeling of the 'need' to grind zombies.

 

I tend to like the concept of 'earn by doing' systems the best and can certainly understand why other people miss the old system. (I do too, to some degree.) However, I've played a lot of game that try that and every single one had glaring problems that resulted in the need to exploit the system, otherwise 'naturally' leveling some aspects worked fine while others either skyrocketed ahead to the point of being OP or lagged so far behind they were useless. Maybe those kinds of systems are just too unweildly or complicated to balance easily. If that's the case, then I'd rather have a simplified system that can be tweaked and added onto easily instead of one that's always painfully out of whack.

 

Edit: I should add that food gathering is relatively easy in A17. After a couple of days, I seem to get quite the haul.

 

I respectfully disagree with some of this. OK, there are choices to not farm zombies for XP, not sustainable choices though. Alternative path to iron tools... trader? quest? or, farm zombies for a few days and get a forge and make them at will with most likely what would be a better level. Food? your edit makes sense since I've also found animal to be abundant, literally find multiple almost daily while farming zombies, then perk into metabolism and food is now an afterthought. I am aware they working on "balance" for the XP, but we won't know anything until that finalized. I do think TFP should bring back gun parts and books because, to me, RNG made this game great!

 

Anways, it seems like all these threads are beating a dead horse.

 

Seems like it's all but certain that at this point:

 

Those that like A17 will be happy moving forward to the final release product of 7DTD

 

Those that enjoyed A16.4 will either have to accept the changes in the future, or move on to different games.

[Gazz]

You should gain XP in something /only/ by doing it... I should have /never/ been able to make a killer bow because I spam crafted stone axes... I SHOULD have been able to make a killer stone axe by spamming stone axes, but not a bow...

Quite a while ago I played one mod where they took it to the extreme.

There were like 50 different skills to grind up.

 

No. Just no.

[Kosmic Kerman]

Is there any other way to gate thing besides artificial gating? Honestly wondering. I do like the way the levels play a role now.

 

In another post Stompy said he removed the level gates but increased the point cost of the perks. The way I understood it the higher the perk the more expensive. This is still somewhat artificial but the player has more agency. For example if a player wanted to spend 5, 10, or whatever points to unlock forges they could. Obviously they would be sacrificing spending points in other areas to get that perk.

[HerrKingsley]

Is there any other way to gate thing besides artificial gating? Honestly wondering. I do like the way the levels play a role now.

 

For items:

RNG loot and resources.

Or loot and resources in specific areas.

Schematics and books. RNG, areas or trader

 

For skills:

Earning by doing doesn't need to be cactus jumping. That should have been incorporated into the combat xp. Killing zombies with melee weapons give you xp on ex weapon, armor and agility. The old system had flaws. But they could have patched and built upon them not removing them.

[asmosnuts]

More of a fan of learn by doing than the current system, old system just needed tweaking really. Its a much easier system and lets people focus more on what they want to do. Nerf cactus jump etc of course!