Death penalty is too much!

[pApA^LeGBa]

yeah, well. All the 1k hours plus people are ofc not in trouble. But the game should not be balanced to meet the likes of veterans. Not at all. That is the risk you have when playing EA, everything seems easy after a few years.

 

It´s annoying and tedious. And "just don´t die and be carfull" is not an argument for new players. Protection at start doesn´t work. I got attacked right at start. So yeah, unless they buff our fists like crazy, this is way to harsh.

 

And let´s not even start with dogs on day 2 or 3.

 

Now i know why there is no free weekends. No new player would come back with a harsh penalty like that.

[Hammerofheaven]

No, it does not affect any of the early T1 perks.

Hyperbole is ineffective if it can be fact-checked that easily.

 

Learn your own game. Or play it. Or I don't know, don't brush off feedback from your users. Ironically you are using "hyperbole" as Hyperbole to label user feedback as not meaningful.

 

This new system for death is terrible. I have already had multiple people leave the server I run over it.

 

It does remove huge amounts of progress, especially prior to level 20. Sure it cannot be reduced below 1, but it sure feels like crap to have everything pinned down to one. You get worse quest rewards, craft lower quality gear, do less damage, have access to lower quality food, literally everything you have invested into gets hit. That is not hyperbole, that is the actual mechanic of the game.

 

Do not dismiss people over if they are technically correct or not. That is not how user feedback works with a new product. Your users are not always expected to have full insight into a system and nit picking to dismiss misses the issue that there are so many people unhappy with the game.

 

Further, if you are more than level 5 and less than level 20, you can easily, and for some players often, end up with all of your stats pinned down at 1 and only have access the the stats you had from just after starting the game.

 

I had one player curse me out over it and said to disable it before leaving the server. I had another who died a bunch of times and said that they would never not have a death penalty and this was not fun and then leave. I can keep on listing these, I had it happen 4 times today... And that is just people who said something!

 

This is not even a good mechanic, it encourages players to play safe and avoid risks as much as possible. I know I just cancel a quest if it is in a building I am not familiar with. No way I am spending 1 RL hour of my time outside of work with my stats penned down to 1... By the time I am going to be willing to go into there and explore, the risk will be trivial. This to me ruins some of the coolest parts of the game the have been developed over the past couple of years. The maze POIs are amazing and I am staying the hell away from them because the risk/reward is not at all balanced.

 

There are so many great things about this patch and right now it feels like most of it is hiding behind a few minor issues(like the death debuff). Please, don't pick this hill to die on.

 

At the very least this needs to be easily user configurable. It NEEDS to be an option when setting up a game and it needs to be in the server config file as an option. If you are not going to budge on if this is a worthy feature, then at least give us the option to play the way we want.

[crazywildfire]

Fine fine I agree I say budge some. When you die you get reset back to lvl 1. The game isn't gone and doesn't reset but all perks and level go back 1 and you start over. Kinda like the old days when you ran out of lives game over and start back over. Seems right to me then you kinda play dead is dead minus the fact that anything you already made or built is still around. Is that a fair trade? As a hardcore player that doesn't play as much as others would say that would be a better system. So I believe this new death buff system is a good in between.

 

 

Just remember when one says this is to hard or whatever it can always get harder or worse depending on ones thoughts on the matter.

[Guppycur]

@word of course, homie!

 

@papa and there's easier difficulty levels for those folks.

 

@hammer if those people quit over what amounts to be an hour of inconvenience, fuggem. They're the type to get upset over anything.

[Garfy]

It doesn't help that the new systems are all terribly explained, if they're explained at all.

 

Me and a bunch of friends tried playing, on the first night we were attacked by well over 30 zombies. We all died a ton. By morning most of us had 25 max health and our max stamina was like 40-50. Eating, drinking and using bandages didn't seem to restore any of our lost health.

None of us knew what the hell was going on, how to fix it and we were all too gimped to keep playing. So we all just quit then and there.

 

You might want to actually explain how the new systems work instead of assuming everyone religiously follows developer posts on how new systems work.

[Guppycur]

There was once a time when you popped a piece of plastic into another piece of plastic and a game came on, with nothing to explain what to do...

 

...and it was awesome.

 

Perhaps explanations will come when a17 is released (it's currently experimental for play testing), but I honestly hope not, since discovery is half the fun.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@word of course, homie!

 

@papa and there's easier difficulty levels for those folks.

 

@hammer if those people quit over what amounts to be an hour of inconvenience, fuggem. They're the type to get upset over anything.

 

Again, default should not be balanced to meet the needs of veterans. That´s what higher difficulties are there for.

 

Ofc default is not challenging for ppl with 1k plus hours. That´s what you gotta deal with when playing EA titles.

[santosiebie15]

Yo, could someone please tell me how can i lower the damage that these fcking birds do ?

Like seriusly Im level 19 pretty well geared and i walked to one of these camps in the forest where 5 YES 5 of them spawned on my ass I had a level 3 Melee weapon and i still couldn't kill them or run away and heal in time..

So, first of all i think 5 of them spawning in 1 place is too much.2nd, the deal WAY TOO MUCH damage and 3rd, i even tried to be sneaky and maybe try to kill them while they sleep with my compound bow n steel arrows but NOPE once again before i could even take the shot from pretty far they all Waked up and killed my ass again...

And cmon now 1H penalty ugh....

[Kam R.]

It doesn't help that the new systems are all terribly explained, if they're explained at all.

 

Me and a bunch of friends tried playing, on the first night we were attacked by well over 30 zombies. We all died a ton. By morning most of us had 25 max health and our max stamina was like 40-50. Eating, drinking and using bandages didn't seem to restore any of our lost health.

None of us knew what the hell was going on, how to fix it and we were all too gimped to keep playing. So we all just quit then and there.

 

You might want to actually explain how the new systems work instead of assuming everyone religiously follows developer posts on how new systems work.

 

 

There's a pretty concise journal entry about the survival system and it is available to be viewed from the first minute of gameplay...

And the journal symbol (a pen) even blinks, telling the player "Hey look at me, I have information for you."

 

Seems like it's still too subtle for some lol. A continuous problem with this game's UI.

 

What I'd like to see is a full description of what some of the buffs and debuffs influence. On the same page that displays the list of buffs and debuffs that is. Would be nice to have less of a guessing game in that regard.

[RestInPieces]

This is not even a good mechanic, it encourages players to play safe and avoid risks as much as possible. I know I just cancel a quest if it is in a building I am not familiar with.

 

It encourages players to play safe in a survival game? Preposterous!

[Guppycur]

Again, default should not be balanced to meet the needs of veterans. That´s what higher difficulties are there for.

 

Ofc default is not challenging for ppl with 1k plus hours. That´s what you gotta deal with when playing EA titles.

 

And default shouldn't be a cake walk for newbies either, that's what lower difficulty is for. =)

[pApA^LeGBa]

And default shouldn't be a cake walk for newbies either, that's what lower difficulty is for. =)

 

It still wouldn´t be a cake walk with like 15mins (or 20, 30) instead of a whole ingame day. You have so many hours in this game you can´t judge anymore what is difficult for new players. You are overfeed with this game.

[Kosmic Kerman]

It still wouldn´t be a cake walk with like 15mins (or 20, 30) instead of a whole ingame day. You have so many hours in this game you can´t judge anymore what is difficult for new players. You are overfeed with this game.

 

This game has never been easy for new players. I started in A15 after watching hours of YouTube videos. My first two games were tough and I died a lot. Once I got a better feel for it, it got much easier. I would imagine this will be the case for most experienced gamers. If you are a casual player, you will need to reduce the difficulty. Something else to remember is that a lot of veterans are having trouble in A17 because they aren’t reading the journal entries and are assuming everything works the way it once did. There’s been a ton of streamers and a ton of players on this forum who clearly didn’t read the first journal entry on stamina/health which explains how max stamina/health and recovery works. A new player is much more likely to read the journal entries. My biggest concern for new players is the first horde. Their only choice may be to sit on top of a concrete poi and wait it out.

[Guppycur]

It still wouldn´t be a cake walk with like 15mins (or 20, 30) instead of a whole ingame day. You have so many hours in this game you can´t judge anymore what is difficult for new players. You are overfeed with this game.

 

My daughter can do difficulty 1 with er, no difficulty. She cannot do normal. So this system works. <shrug>

 

But I can see we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[insanetoast]

@word of course, homie!

 

@papa and there's easier difficulty levels for those folks.

 

@hammer if those people quit over what amounts to be an hour of inconvenience, fuggem. They're the type to get upset over anything.

 

Wow, guppy. Kind of surprised you'd take that stance. Ok, let's run down what happens when you have the death debuff:

Combat players: You lose all your stamina and damage buffs, along with reload walk speed improvements. You're now back to level one but still fighting in your level's game stage. This means you might be facing several radiated ferals while having notalents/perks to compensate.

Builders/crafters: If you're the crafter/builder of the group, you lose access to a lot of what you are needing to make. So it's not like prior alphas where you can just tinker around base until your broken leg goes away and your wellness goes back up. You're forced to sit and twiddle your thumbs or face overwhelming odds. It's not that bad with friends, but many are solo players like myself, and won't have that option. Especially on PvP servers where it's another player you'd be going after. I've had to just let my dropped loot go because I know I'd be at such a disadvantage that trying would only make things worse for me.

 

Basically, this debuff is making players afk for an hour before they start doing anything again. It's taking up server space unnecessarily, and I myself have sat playing Fallout 76 and just checking my laptop every so often to top off my food and water. It's pointlessly, annoyingly long for a death debuff. I get having a penalty so you fear death on PvE, but this is just ridiculous. Some folks only get an hour or two of play time per day, and it's gotta really suck spending half your game time waiting out a debuff.

 

In short, I think the death debuff needs tweaked. Not removed, just tweaked. Less time, 20 or 30 minutes. Enough time to cause you inconvenience so you fear death, but not so long you'd rather just go afk or say **** it.

[pApA^LeGBa]

My daughter can do difficulty 1 with er, no difficulty. She cannot do normal. So this system works. <shrug>

 

But I can see we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

IT´s about the death penalty simply beeing waaay too long. It´s kills the fun. What is so hard to get about that? I rather start over right now than crawling around with crippled stats for a whole day.

 

I´d rather loose everything in my back pack and toolbelt and spawn in the middle of nowhere, than having to deal with beeing crippled. I can´t even play more than one maybe one and half hours on many days. Cba to do so if i am crippled back to nothing all that time if i die.

 

Well it´s TFP´s decision if they wanna scare away new players then be it.

 

default should not be easy. But it shouldn´t be annoying and tedious either. Wich it is right now. due to the one hour penalty.

[insanetoast]

Eh I had a little trouble figuring out health and stam recovery. Had it licked the first ingame day though. It's common sense to check the journals lol. I'd suggest putting the methods on the loading screens though, just to ensure the Luddites know what's up.

 

I'm not a fan of the new system, but my reasons are unjustifiable so it's whatever. I'll be honest though, I'm predicting the game is gonna lose a lot of players over some of these changes. And failing to ensure players know what they're doing (even if you have to hold their hand) means more refunds from new players when they can't figure it out. So I'd suggest holding some hands.

[Guppycur]

Frankly I'm surprised about my stance too, but the fact is, in a16 I stayed at 70 wellness because I didn't care... Come horde night I'd jump down on the 2nd half and melee with my bow, because i could just respawn over and over...

 

...but now, I care. I'm more careful (well, I was until day 14) and I am having more fun than before because of it.

 

The adrenalyn rush wasn't there in 16, and it is now.

[insanetoast]

I cared about my wellness in a16, mostly bc if I was up against another player it paid to have as much HP as possible. PvE vs. PvP. So a good middle-ground might be to add options for the server owner so they can lengthen/shorten the debuff. Not sure if you can do that in the .xml's, I'll have to check and see.

 

But yea, we had folks that would spam blood bags for us so we'd have first aid kits for days since they could respawn right there in their base and had no other drawbacks. Really, we could still have people do that, they'd just have to afk for an hour afterward.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Frankly I'm surprised about my stance too, but the fact is, in a16 I stayed at 70 wellness because I didn't care... Come horde night I'd jump down on the 2nd half and melee with my bow, because i could just respawn over and over...

 

...but now, I care. I'm more careful (well, I was until day 14) and I am having more fun than before because of it.

 

The adrenalyn rush wasn't there in 16, and it is now.

 

That´s a typical veterans problem. A game that isn´t even released should not be centerd to meet standards of people that have as much playtime as you do.

 

But well, i guess the numbers on steam stats will show that pretty soon once the stable hits the shelf.

[Guppycur]

The penalty is a buff, so it's easily editable. I'll do a modlet when I get back if someone hasn't already.

 

I did a "random zombie getup time" one about an hour ago or so.

[Kramarite]

After playing for the last couple of days I think the death penalty does need revision. I like having a death penalty, love the idea of consequences. During a normal game day I can live with an hour of handicap but would suggest that it would be better if the penalty slowly scaled back to full over the hour.

Where the penalty is broken is during the horde night. You get swamped, die and now you have to fight off the horde for the rest of the night with all your ability buffs gone. No more quick stamina regen or cut back stamina usage for melee. After that first death, you are pretty much guaranteed a continues string of deaths until sunrise. Especially now the AI paths so much better. Not so easy to hide hehe. Makes for a frustrating experience tho.

Just FYI, I've got 1000hrs plus logged on this game so not a newbie. Still adjusting to the A17 changes. Now that AI pathing is so much better maybe we can adjust zombies dmg to blocks so they blocks don't fold like wet cardboard??? I'd love to be able to have a base mid game that didn't have to rely solely on preventing zombies from being able to reach me. Day 14 involved 3 tourists in the first wave, my iron reinforced blocks and iron spikes didn't do much to slow them.

[Guppycur]

That´s a typical veterans problem. A game that isn´t even released should not be centerd to meet standards of people that have as much playtime as you do.

 

But well, i guess the numbers on steam stats will show that pretty soon once the stable hits the shelf.

 

But anyone with hell, 10 hours is going to be a vet... The whole point of difficulty settings is to cater to both, not just one.

 

Perhaps you'd be appeased if level 1 was the default difficulty level?

 

Your argument seems to hinge on what new players will experience, not what you experience, so this seems like a good compromise.

[Scyris]

Wow, guppy. Kind of surprised you'd take that stance. Ok, let's run down what happens when you have the death debuff:

Combat players: You lose all your stamina and damage buffs, along with reload walk speed improvements. You're now back to level one but still fighting in your level's game stage. This means you might be facing several radiated ferals while having notalents/perks to compensate.

Builders/crafters: If you're the crafter/builder of the group, you lose access to a lot of what you are needing to make. So it's not like prior alphas where you can just tinker around base until your broken leg goes away and your wellness goes back up. You're forced to sit and twiddle your thumbs or face overwhelming odds. It's not that bad with friends, but many are solo players like myself, and won't have that option. Especially on PvP servers where it's another player you'd be going after. I've had to just let my dropped loot go because I know I'd be at such a disadvantage that trying would only make things worse for me.

 

Basically, this debuff is making players afk for an hour before they start doing anything again. It's taking up server space unnecessarily, and I myself have sat playing Fallout 76 and just checking my laptop every so often to top off my food and water. It's pointlessly, annoyingly long for a death debuff. I get having a penalty so you fear death on PvE, but this is just ridiculous. Some folks only get an hour or two of play time per day, and it's gotta really suck spending half your game time waiting out a debuff.

 

In short, I think the death debuff needs tweaked. Not removed, just tweaked. Less time, 20 or 30 minutes. Enough time to cause you inconvenience so you fear death, but not so long you'd rather just go afk or say **** it.

 

They could change it to be only a stat debuff, but it doesn't lower perks, its the lowering of the perks based on the stats where it really hurts and turns you useless. I can deal with going from 10 str down to 1, as long as I keep my perks fully leveled, I mean i'll be losing damage/block damage/health etc, but at least I can still craft all my normal stuff etc, with the current debuff, you die, you pretty much can't do much of anything for an hour. People aren't complaining about the debuff itself, its how LONG it lasts that people are complaing about.

[insanetoast]

That´s a typical veterans problem. A game that isn´t even released should not be centerd to meet standards of people that have as much playtime as you do.

 

But well, i guess the numbers on steam stats will show that pretty soon once the stable hits the shelf.

 

2896 hours here, mate. Bought the game in a2 and followed it all the way here. Ups and downs galore lol. And I disagree, I think those that were here before have earned a level of loyalty for taking a risk early on. We didn't know whether this game would pan out, but we supported it anyway and stayed through all the bugs and crashes. Someone coming in now is still buying Early Access, and needs to expect there to be an added level of difficulty because of that.

 

I bought Ark late in the EA process, so I teamed with a veteran and learned the ropes. Now I consider myself a veteran on there too lol. If you're playing PvE, this debuff is nothing major. If you're on SP, then it's even less so. On PvP it's a big problem, especially if you're getting raided. You lose any kind of even footing you had with your opponent and are thrust into a disadvantageous situation should you try to defend or recover your loot. I liked the PvP in this game bc you could always come back and (with the right amount of skill or luck) defeat your killer and recover your precious loot. It was a RUSH! Charging a sniper with nothing but a pickaxe you just found and actually nailing the kill!!! Ah I've got so many memories of PvP in this game lol.

 

So I disagree with ya on the whole "he's wrong because he's too accustomed to the difficulty" argument. We're all looking at this through a fresh spawn's eyes, and we see a mountain for them to climb. I'm just wanting the mountain to stop being a cliff if they happen to be on a PvP server lmao