Death penalty is too much!

[wordwaster]

Hawkeye. Get off your leet horse. The issue isn’t challenge. I like challenge. AS LONG AS the gameplay is fun. This penalty makes the gameplay not fun. For an hour. That is an entire play session for many people. And that is if it doesn’t throw you into a death spiral because you cannot advance key skills on top of the penalties to health and stamina.

 

Maybe folks that play thousands of hours think of it as “only an hour”, but most folks aren’t in that category.

 

And maybe some sadists need to get punished hard to get off on their gaming, but that ain’t most folks either. If I die because I f’d up, knowing that I f’d up is all the penalty I need. Being punished like this for dying because the enemy snuck up behind me silently while I was in a menu is way too much.

[OzHawkeye]

Hawkeye. Get off your leet horse. The issue isn’t challenge. I like challenge. AS LONG AS the gameplay is fun. This penalty makes the gameplay not fun. For an hour. That is an entire play session for many people. And that is if it doesn’t throw you into a death spiral because you cannot advance key skills on top of the penalties to health and stamina.

 

Maybe folks that play thousands of hours think of it as “only an hour”, but most folks aren’t in that category.

 

And maybe some sadists need to get punished hard to get off on their gaming, but that ain’t most folks either. If I die because I f’d up, knowing that I f’d up is all the penalty I need. Being punished like this for dying because the enemy snuck up behind me silently while I was in a menu is way too much.

 

I'm hardly on a "leet horse" wordwaster, and my opinion is EVERY BIT AS VALID AS YOURS.

 

I do not think the death penalty should EVER be less than 1 hour, REGARDLESS of the difficulty settings. That's my sincerely held and honest opinion.

 

If the Pimps DO make a menu option for it, then it'll be no skin off my nose - I have ALWAYS advocated for making the game as moddable as possible - but I'm of the opinion that it should be 1 hour in the default settings, even in Scavenger level, because the chance of dying at that difficulty level is markedly lower, and newer players (especially) need to be introduced to the games death penalties.

[wordwaster]

It isn’t what you think of the penalty that bothers me, it’s what you think of the people that don’t like the penalty that bothers me. As though we need to be cuddled in a safe place because we don’t like a penalty that sets us back and prevents game progression for an hour.

 

The idea that the solution is to play on an easier difficulty to avoid challenge is insulting.

 

Again: I LIKE the challenge. What I don’t like are the consequences of slipping up and failing to meet the challenge lasting for an absurd length of time

[Guppycur]

The idea that the solution to avoid challenge being to choose an easier difficulty is insulting?

 

...really?

 

What pray tell, ARE the different difficulty levels for, then?

 

...that's EXACTLY what they're for.

 

Not ready for 4? Play 3. 3 too tough? Play 2.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I promise you; play on 2 long enough and you'll be good enough for 3, and so forth.

 

This isn't an insult, it's how life works.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I can't even... I just... Wow.

[giltirn]

The idea that the solution to avoid challenge being to choose an easier difficulty is insulting?

 

...really?

 

What pray tell, ARE the different difficulty levels for, then?

 

...that's EXACTLY what they're for.

 

Not ready for 4? Play 3. 3 too tough? Play 2.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I promise you; play on 2 long enough and you'll be good enough for 3, and so forth.

 

This isn't an insult, it's how life works.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I can't even... I just... Wow.

 

I'm not going to play easy mode just to reduce the ridiculous death timer length. I like the game difficulty as it is - I just don't want to have to alt-tab out for an hour if I make a mistake. *There is nothing challenging about a death debuff*.

[wordwaster]

The idea that the solution to avoid challenge being to choose an easier difficulty is insulting?

 

...really?

 

What pray tell, ARE the different difficulty levels for, then?

 

...that's EXACTLY what they're for.

 

Not ready for 4? Play 3. 3 too tough? Play 2.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I promise you; play on 2 long enough and you'll be good enough for 3, and so forth.

 

This isn't an insult, it's how life works.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I can't even... I just... Wow.

 

you trolling gup? i know your reading comprehension is better than that.

[RestInPieces]

I'm not going to play easy mode just to reduce the ridiculous death timer length. I like the game difficulty as it is - I just don't want to have to alt-tab out for an hour if I make a mistake. *There is nothing challenging about a death debuff*.

 

Alt-tab for an hour? I played quite a long time with the death penalty and did quite a lot of stuff. Do consequences bother you so much? No it's not about challenge, this is a survival game (among other genres) and you know what survival means, right? What point is there in surviving when death is inconsequential, or even worse, casually using it to reset your status?

 

And why suggesting that you play on a lower difficulty is insulting? At a lower difficulty you will die less, thus rarer or no death penalty at all.

[Zourin]

Jeez folks, try to at least accept some challenge. We've had ppl complaining about digging zombies already, I've watched streams where ppl die on purpose to fast travel back to base as they've already died 20 times. This is disgusting. Death should have massive penalties, it's a survival game, dead is dead should be the default if you ask me. Learn from your mistakes, put points in armor and health instead of tool and cement upgrades.

 

But TFP can't please everyone, would be surprised if it wasn't moddable in xml files.

 

 

1 hour REALTIME is 1 full DAY ingame by default. You lose ALL perks for a full ingame day, including the ability to make and use iron, steel, concrete, cook anything other than charred foods, and basically become a completely useless noob in a game that is very time-crunch sensitive. Oh, and you lost your ability to get bonus damage from headshots, your natural regen, disease resistances, and your bonuses to looting. Get reked by a crawler, son, and you're level 1 for a day.

 

Get greased by 'surprise twenty dogs' on day 7 or 14, and you pretty much just got forced to abandon base defense for the whole horde night. You my as well pack up your things, strip naked, and AFK outside your base, because you got your level 50 ass noob'ed to the stone age, because you can't do ♥♥♥♥, boy.

 

Literally unplayable. At least in A16 there were viable defense methods. Now it's just "Oh kay, i'm out of options. Lets do the whole 'hurry up and kill me" thing so I can keep playing."

 

Better to have 6 days of decent gameplay than to literally burn it all to the ground trying to pointlessly defend it.

[giltirn]

Alt-tab for an hour? I played quite a long time with the death penalty and did quite a lot of stuff. Do consequences bother you so much? No it's not about challenge, this is a survival game (among other genres) and you know what survival means, right? What point is there in surviving when death is inconsequential, or even worse, casually using it to reset your status?

 

And why suggesting that you play on a lower difficulty is insulting? At a lower difficulty you will die less, thus rarer or no death penalty at all.

 

I honestly don't understand the mindset of people who trivialize dying in games when there is no outward penalty for doing so. If I die I am pissed because I messed up - that in itself is plenty enough punishment. I think the difference is between people who *live* the game and people who just *play* the game. For me 7D2D is an apocalypse simulator; I act and survive as I would if such a thing were to happen in real life, which includes cautious playing. Just because it doesn't cost me anything personally to die doesn't mean I'm going to turn into Leroy Jenkins like some people seem to, because it breaks the illusion if I do so. I would never use it to casually reset my status.

 

Playing at a lower difficulty also ruins the illusion. What's the point of playing if there is no risk of failing? And yes it is most certainly possible to fail even if it costs you nothing.

[RestInPieces]

1 hour REALTIME is 1 full DAY ingame by default. You lose ALL perks for a full ingame day

Literally unplayable.

 

No, you don't "lose all the perks". Raise attributes enough and the penalty will not be that harsh.

 

At least in A16 there were viable defense methods. Now it's just "Oh kay, i'm out of options. Lets do the whole 'hurry up and kill me" thing so I can keep playing."

 

By viable defense methods, you mean lacking AI which enabled you to be untouchable? Seems like you were too used to that. It will just take some time to get used to the new system, because with the old one people had gotten used to dying like it was nothing or even used it to reset their status effects.

[Guppycur]

Death has a consequence. Finally.

 

...this is a good thing. Don't like it? Don't die, i.e. play at an easier difficulty level. Get insulted by that? Too bad... 6mos from now when you're complaining about the game being too easy, remember this moment.

[RestInPieces]

If I die I am pissed because I messed up - that in itself is plenty enough punishment.

 

No, don't give me that, you weren't pissed or phased before when you died. Now you are pissed, seeing how you complain about it.

 

Playing at a lower difficulty also ruins the illusion. What's the point of playing if there is no risk of failing? And yes it is most certainly possible to fail even if it costs you nothing.

 

How were you failing before? Elaborate. Not to mention that failing with zero cost is not failing at all.

[OzHawkeye]

It isn’t what you think of the penalty that bothers me, it’s what you think of the people that don’t like the penalty that bothers me. As though we need to be cuddled in a safe place because we don’t like a penalty that sets us back and prevents game progression for an hour.

 

The idea that the solution is to play on an easier difficulty to avoid challenge is insulting.

 

Again: I LIKE the challenge. What I don’t like are the consequences of slipping up and failing to meet the challenge lasting for an absurd length of time

 

I have not made so much as a single word of comment about anyone wanting a lower or even zero'd-out death penalty. Notta one. :-)

 

I have been, and always will be, an advocate for MAXIMUM configurability of the game to suit individual player preferences, and in a thread just a few days ago suggested that should extend even to core mechanics such as the 7 Day Horde no less.

 

So, I would be quite happy for TFP to make the death penalty duration and scope configurable in the XML's - no objection whatsoever. However, the default settings have to be set for the very wide playerbase the game has, and I do believe, that shortening or eliminating the death penalty in the lower difficulty levels wouldn't properly introduce new players to all the games mechanics.

[wordwaster]

Death has a consequence. Finally.

 

...this is a good thing. Don't like it? Don't die, i.e. play at an easier difficulty level. Get insulted by that? Too bad... 6mos from now when you're complaining about the game being too easy, remember this moment.

 

there has been a consequence to death from the first time i played the game. you lost wellness. it made you play more cautiously because you knew you had less room for error because of the lower health.

 

the new consequence is boredom. being unable to do the things that i want to do. for an hour. which most sane people with jobs and families recognize as being a exceedingly long period of time.

 

and this "challenge" bs is bs. if i hadn't been killed twice so far by enemies that did not make a single sound until they hit me in the back, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on. if i hadn't seen a pack of dogs on day 3 maybe. but having all of my abilities taken away because lumberjacks can walk silently on snow? no.

 

the death penalty doesn't add challenge. it doesn't ADD anything. it only takes away.

 

i cannot for the life of me understand why you think being put on "time out" improves this game in any way. this is a game. games are meant to be played. but this penalty is taking all my toys away.

 

 

failure is its own penalty. there is no need for this.

[Guppycur]

We had a pack of zbears (5) and zdogs (3) by day 3. We didn't die.

 

I didn't die until I jumped off a 2 story building on day 14 into a horde of glowing cops and spiders, breaking my leg.

 

My group is damn good.

 

So, WE need the higher base line challenges that a17 brings, so that 6mos from now when we're used to it, we can ramp up the difficulty.

 

In a16 I had to do a 5x multiple on the hardest level to assure we got glowies on day 7 to provide difficulty.

 

The difficulty levels shifted. This is a good thing, because it allows seasoned players AND new players a range of settings.

 

I've had no problems with dogs, lumberjacks or silent zombies, so that's not a issue. For me.

 

You're advocating taking away MY challenge because YOUR ego is hurt you have to lower the difficulty level.

 

And that's not right.

 

And it's hardly a time out. I can still do plenty, even with the penalty. It's a non issue.

[wordwaster]

it has nothing to do with challenge. it has nothing to do with my ego. how are you not getting this? how more clearly can i state this? it makes the game BORING for AN HOUR.

 

 

and btw if you haven't experienced dying in the early game then how is this "your" "challenge"? it hasn't effected you. you aren't stuck at level 1.

 

you "can still do plenty" because you already got the higher level weapons, tools, and armor. and even if you hadn't, you are playing multi so you can get a friend to make them for you. again: it doesn't effect you at all. so how would taking it away effect you at all?

[OzHawkeye]

I must admit, I could be an idea if the death penalty couldn't lower paid perks below a certain level (1 or 2 perhaps) or forgo the perk loss if the character is below a certain level (10 or 20 say). I don't know if the Pimps could implement that easily, but I could see where the might ease some players into understanding that in A17, you really REALLY don't want to die.

[wordwaster]

i was just thinking about editing my post to say something similar about the character levels, hawkeye. (i was going to say 5) i can see how it wouldn't be quite as terrible once you are established a bit. if i already had some stuff, not being able to make stuff or not having the stamina break into pois to loot stuff would be less of an issue. i'd still be able to go about my business with something better than starter crap.

[Guppycur]

Why is lowering the difficulty so you don't die such a bad thing?

 

Die. You can still loot, fight, do quests, harvest, explore, and build.

[wordwaster]

because i want the challenge, gup. i've said this. repeatedly. if i lowered the difficulty there would be no challenge. i WANT the game to be hard enough to kill me. i don't want to make things easier to avoid it. i want to try and fail and try again.

 

this penalty does not increase challenge. it just limits what you can do for an hour. it puts a damper on the "try again" part.

[Doctor3D]

Death has a consequence. Finally.

 

...this is a good thing. Don't like it? Don't die, i.e. play at an easier difficulty level. Get insulted by that? Too bad... 6mos from now when you're complaining about the game being too easy, remember this moment.

 

Exactly. Like anything, after you've played this game for a long time, it becomes incredibly easy. It's nice to have that penalty to keep immersion for caution.

 

I just had a look and after thousands of hours on this game since the achievements were implemented - I have died a total of 29 times. That's counting all accidents including blowing myself up, falling, etc. I'd guess I've only died at the hands of an actual zombie in this game maybe a dozen times in the last couple years or more. I play on pretty much the hardest possible settings and all the zombie counts maxed in xmls.

 

A lot of the things that people say suck right now or are too hard or unfair right now - they will be THANKFUL that they exist later on down the road to keep the game at least somewhat challenging. This game is one I plan to play for many many years to come and unfortunately\fortunately i'm only going to get better and better than I already am and I welcome any and all things like this that TFP can throw at us.

[Doombringer101]

Why is lowering the difficulty so you don't die such a bad thing?

 

Die. You can still loot, fight, do quests, harvest, explore, and build.

 

This.

[Doctor3D]

this penalty does not increase challenge. it just limits what you can do for an hour. it puts a damper on the "try again" part.

 

That's just not true. If you or your party are at a higher gamestage and you or co-op partner are hit with this penalty - it will make things more difficult \ challenging. It's an incentive to be cautious. That caution that you feel helps with immersion and enjoyment (For me anyway).

[wordwaster]

why do you need another incentive to be cautious? if the only penalty of death was knowing that i f'd up, that would be enough incentive for me to be cautious. but there were already other incentives. wellness loss. having to waste time going back to recover you backpack. you could even set it so that you lost everything on death permanently. but none of that was enough? you were still running around like a lunatic?

 

i just don't get it.

[Doctor3D]

why do you need another incentive to be cautious? if the only penalty of death was knowing that i f'd up, that would be enough incentive for me to be cautious. but there were already other incentives. wellness loss. having to waste time going back to recover you backpack. you could even set it so that you lost everything on death permanently. but none of that was enough? you were still running around like a lunatic?

 

i just don't get it.

 

 

I don't 'need' it..I welcome it..l actually like penalties. Destroying backpack on death is definitely a good one as well, of course. No one I ever play with likes that one though so I never get to use it much nowadays - I do love it though.

 

I guess why I like it is that fear of if I die...X happens as a result. I don't NEED it to make me cautious. But, having a real penalty is welcomed to go along with it. I would still play cautious no matter what - that's just how I am. I can't think of the last time I even died in this game that wasn't something accidental. I'm honestly thinking it was LAST thanksgiving when a zombie killed me. Somewhere around a year.. pretty cautious...

 

 

Anyway...Sorry you don't like it....