Vehicles on Horde night

[SnowDog1942]

So why can't the logic of "if you want to be safe, mod your game that way" be "if you want your game to be hard, mod your game that way"?

 

 

Because its easier to mod out new mechanics that mod IN new mechanics.

 

Imagine people who don't want blood moon hordes at all. EASY to mod out. Now imagine the work that it would take to mod that in if the mechanic didn't exist.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I read them, I just disagree.

 

Specific to ug bases, my stance is simple... Digging zombies are the lazy way out. I'd prefer different challenges, not just more of the same.

 

I prefer both. Diggers are great and better than nothing.

[Guppycur]

Imagine if there was a cooler thing to be able to mod out than simply zombies that dig...

[SnowDog1942]

Imagine if there was a cooler thing to be able to mod out than simply zombies that dig...

 

What can be cooler than CHUD?

 

[Guppycur]

@rip

 

That this is totally about players caring how others players are playing.

[RestInPieces]

Neil Degrasse Tyson and 4 out of 5 dentists who chew gum endorse this idea.

 

Well, if Degrasse, the most renowned dentist in America endorses it, I won't argue.

 

@rip

 

That this is totally about players caring how others players are playing.

 

Still disagree. It may sound like that sometimes, but it's for more selfish reasons than that. I've witnessed many people posting here, playing on creative and none has popped up to tell them to stop doing that or whatever. Nor do I see anyone judging the OP in the recent thread "am I bad for playing with longer days". Options outside gameplay don't really affect one's gameplay, but options within gameplay making their alternatives meaningless do affect each individual playthrough.

[Guppycur]

What can be cooler than CHUD?

 

 

Mechanics that would allow for more expanded possibilities? Air purity, quakes, insanity, lava, gas explosions, black lung...

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

@snow I also prefer both. Weird. ;-)

[SnowDog1942]

Mechanics that would allow for more expanded possibilities? Air purity, quakes, insanity, lava, gas explosions, black lung...

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

@snow I also prefer both. Weird. ;-)

 

I can ask for more mechanics above ground to besides zombies as well, not just underground. Not sure the need to separate it. More threats are good all around, but zombies are good everywhere to since its a zombie game.

[Tin]

Mechanics that would allow for more expanded possibilities? Air purity, quakes, insanity, lava, gas explosions, black lung...

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

@snow I also prefer both. Weird. ;-)

 

I just hope with all the new better systems they say they added, it leads to having those possibilities down the road.

[RestInPieces]

Mechanics that would allow for more expanded possibilities? Air purity, quakes, insanity, lava, gas explosions, black lung...

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

@snow I also prefer both. Weird. ;-)

 

Sorry, but all these pale compared to my awesome maggot suggestion

[leaderdog]

What's the difference between getting in a vehicle and driving away from the horde, or putting rows of spikes, and or rotating blades to shred the zombies before they get to your base?

 

For that matter, I often have a base where my stuff is, and a fighting base where I would take on the horde. Is that considered cheating then, because the horde can ruin my fighting zone, but I lose no items because I'm not silly enough to leave items there.

 

I used to build massive bases and snipe all the zombies.

 

Then I made an elaborate traps for the zombies to die on, while I sniped them from a far.

 

Then I made bases where the zombies fell down on spikes and got stuck on another wall only to fall on more spikes and have to go through another wall.

 

Then I got adventurous and built massive kill zone where I ran around and clubbed them, with spikes in intervals to weave around if I needed and a catwalk to jump on to regain health or rest.

 

Everyone plays differently, everyone has their own idea of what's fun and how to play.

 

Now, with zombies not being loot carries (or very little), it actually is a massive disincentive to waste resources fighting them. The "smart" move would be to lure them out in the middle of no where. Horde night happens, zombies come, you drive away leaving them there to despawn eventually.

 

The game was already great, with multiple options for all players to enjoy as they like. Not sure a lot of the new changes (mechanic or skill tree) Add anything to the game.

[Manchild]

What's the difference between getting in a vehicle and driving away from the horde, or putting rows of spikes, and or rotating blades to shred the zombies before they get to your base?

 

For that matter, I often have a base where my stuff is, and a fighting base where I would take on the horde. Is that considered cheating then, because the horde can ruin my fighting zone, but I lose no items because I'm not silly enough to leave items there.

 

I used to build massive bases and snipe all the zombies.

 

Then I made an elaborate traps for the zombies to die on, while I sniped them from a far.

 

Then I made bases where the zombies fell down on spikes and got stuck on another wall only to fall on more spikes and have to go through another wall.

 

Then I got adventurous and built massive kill zone where I ran around and clubbed them, with spikes in intervals to weave around if I needed and a catwalk to jump on to regain health or rest.

 

Everyone plays differently, everyone has their own idea of what's fun and how to play.

 

Now, with zombies not being loot carries (or very little), it actually is a massive disincentive to waste resources fighting them. The "smart" move would be to lure them out in the middle of no where. Horde night happens, zombies come, you drive away leaving them there to despawn eventually.

 

The game was already great, with multiple options for all players to enjoy as they like. Not sure a lot of the new changes (mechanic or skill tree) Add anything to the game.

 

 

Only difference is devs r already building counter measures from people building spikes.Digging,jumping etc, but cars r new and have plenty that needs tweaking.

[Manchild]

What's the difference between getting in a vehicle and driving away from the horde, or putting rows of spikes, and or rotating blades to shred the zombies before they get to your base?

 

Difference is lots of counter measures r being made for building spikes .

if its digging,jumping,etc but cars r new and being worked on.

so give it some time.

[LuckyStar]

I just don't get why people give a crap how or what other people do.

 

Yup.

 

Seeing Elitism at it's finest here.

 

"I play this way and you DON'T so I'm better and you're wrong!"

 

Absolute garbage.

 

When I played Spore I spent my entire time making dioramas in the building creator.

Even won a contest and got a free computer!

 

So.... according to these [two in particular] people, I'm having fun wrong???

 

They don't see that telling us how we should play is arrogant?

I don't remember seeing a vote where these folks were deemed 7DTD gods and got to decide the correct way to play.

 

Some people just build in creative mode and nothing else.

They doing it wrong too?

 

Get off your bloody pedestals!

 

The BEST part of 7DTD is that it's easy to MOD and people can play the way they like.

I've got over 4000 hours [not nearly as much as some others] and I would NEVER have played this game as much if I couldn't experience it in many different ways.

 

I've played tons of Mods and even made my own.

My game looks very dissimilar from Vanilla.

I'm playing it RIGHT for me!

TLDR; Play the game the way you LIKE and ignore those who deem your way wrong!

[Manchild]

Yup.

 

Seeing Elitism at it's finest here.

 

"I play this way and you DON'T so I'm better and you're wrong!"

 

Absolute garbage.

 

When I played Spore I spent my entire time making dioramas in the building creator.

Even won a contest and got a free computer!

 

So.... according to these [two in particular] people, I'm having fun wrong???

 

They don't see that telling us how we should play is arrogant?

I don't remember seeing a vote where these folks were deemed 7DTD gods and got to decide the correct way to play.

 

Some people just build in creative mode and nothing else.

They doing it wrong too?

 

Get off your bloody pedestals!

 

The BEST part of 7DTD is that it's easy to MOD and people can play the way they like.

I've got over 4000 hours [not nearly as much as some others] and I would NEVER have played this game as much if I couldn't experience it in many different ways.

 

I've played tons of Mods and even made my own.

My game looks very dissimilar from Vanilla.

I'm playing it RIGHT for me!

TLDR; Play the game the way you LIKE and ignore those who deem your way wrong!

 

I couldnt agree more with this.

People like to do quest let them.

People are cowards at horde night and ride cars let theM

People dig dig dig dig dig like its minecraft let them

People houseflip let them

People roleplay let them

People play building simulator with no zombie bloody let them.

[SnowDog1942]

I couldnt agree more with this.

People like to do quest let them.

People are cowards at horde night and ride cars let theM

People dig dig dig dig dig like its minecraft let them

People houseflip let them

People roleplay let them

People play building simulator with no zombie bloody let them.

 

totally agreed, do anything you want underground.. as long as it doesn't prevent ME from playing with zombies underground

[RestInPieces]

Yup.

 

Seeing Elitism at it's finest here.

 

"I play this way and you DON'T so I'm better and you're wrong!"

 

Absolute garbage.

 

So.... according to these [two in particular] people, I'm having fun wrong???

 

They don't see that telling us how we should play is arrogant?

 

Who did that? Quote their post and I'll harass them!

[Viktoriusiii]

I second RIPs post.

While I may have complained about certain abuses and unbalanced issues that was targeted at PvP (which is my personal preference)

But if lets go with this post. If someone said “i dislike people in singleplayer playing like moles and that is my reason for why i want TFPs to change it“

Ill GLADLY support your fight against that retarded elitism.

[Katitof]

Only difference is devs r already building counter measures from people building spikes.Digging,jumping etc, but cars r new and have plenty that needs tweaking.

 

New?

 

We have minibike for years now.

 

Driving around all night still requires active participation and consumes players resources, you'll have lower risk, but you'll also have lower reward for doing so, however all requierments for healthy gameplay are there.

 

-players active participation

-there is risk involved

-reward is accordingly to risk and low

-resources are being used actively to survive the night

 

You are not circumventing gamplay loop of 7th day at all and you're still committing to it.

[Roland]

From a design perspective I want a survival game to offer a risk for all forms of tactics. So I am all for driving around all night long but make it risky and challenging to do so. I am all for people digging underground but make it risky and challenging to do so. I am all for people building stilt bases but make it risky and challenging to do so.

 

Chosen strategies shouldn't be impossible nor should they be guaranteed. Neither of of these extremes are good design in my opinion. I don't care how anyone decides to play the game but the developers should look at strategies and any that are guaranteed they should introduce a bit of challenge and/or risk.

[Kattla]

We want a challenge in survival games. Which means using every trick in the book. But if one trick completely breaks one aspect of survival (hordenight), its not a challenge anymore, but a broken game.

 

If one trick breaks your game, don't use that trick then. Or use it, and try something different

the next time. I was very scared the first time i faced the horde on ground level with only a

spiked club. Of course, i eventually grew tired of that, and wanted to try something else. And

i could do that. Good luck with that once this game gets to full release.

 

Back to the topic, no, i have not tried to drive away from the horde, but i know they will

continue to despawn/respawn to get to my location, so it should work, at least in theory.

And for those who still play this game, i hope it will work in A17 too. And no, i don't find it

more of an exploit then a spiked club to a zombies skull.

 

As for punishing players who avoide the horde, better not. If a lot of players do avoid the horde

it tells me they are enjoying the game but not the horde. Forcing it onto them would be like forcing

you to eat food you don't like.

 

Funpolice? Your words, and if you earned that title, enjoy it.

[Viktoriusiii]

The Problem is:

Which tricks do you not use?

 

Is beeing safe underground too gamebreaking?

Is using the trader for easy equipment gamebreaking?

Is using the sledgehammer onehitkill gamebreaking?

Are spikes gamebreaking? Pitfalls? Bladetrraps?

 

I should not have to descide which parts of the game I play to challenge myself.

 

If you give someone two choices, they are only meaningful if both have pros and cons.

 

And if you say you dont get loot, then there are still a lot of other factors at play:

 

Basedefense:

+loot

+xp

-might die and lose 10 wellness (about 7-10stews depends)

-base might get destroyed

-uses ressources

-if base is overrun you might die more then once

 

Driving away:

+complete safety for you and your base

+can drive to areas to scout for pois

 

-no loot or xp

-small gas usage

 

 

“complete safety“ should not EVER be an option within a zombiesurvival game that advocates in its name for you to die on that night!

 

 

Again:

If you set you gamemode to easy idc.

But if i set it on difficulty 6, i dont want to have to think what features I shouldnt use because they make it too easy.

 

I have 800+ hours clocked (mostly in pvp and difficulty 6) and have~20 deaths AT LEAST 10 of those beeingund bugs. I just want more challenge and not more options to cheese the game.

 

TL;DR:

 

Basically what Roland said.

[OzHawkeye]

>>snipping long post quote<<

 

RIP,

 

What I am an advocate for is the game catering to the maximum degree of player freedom possible, even where that player choice may, by consequence, effectively or specifically disable certain game mechanics.

 

Now, a few explanatory notes though:

 

1) I'm not in favour of the endless proliferation of menu options - the menu should be kept essentially basic, and players looking to tweak the game beyond that should do so through XML edits.

 

2) I'm ALL in favour of the BASE game preventing any particular strategy - whatever it is - from being an "I WIN!" button. Absolutely.

 

3) I advocate for that player freedom even when the player is making a choice that I would consider rendering the game boring or broken.

 

So,

 

I believe in the BASE game:

 

1) Underground bases should be subject to some significant level of threat and/or require some really beefy time and materials investment (ventilation would be my favourite pick here).

 

2) Riding around on a minibike or flying around on a gyrocopter all night during the Horde, should be expensive in terms of fuel used and/or really dangerous. That said, I see no way for TFP to enforce this really, without making the use of these vehicles at other times to be prohibitively expensive.

 

3) As Viktoriusiii has mentioned, I think Traders are OP, and indeed, I've made the personal choice never to use them - I don't personally like the idea of BUYING my loot at all, so beyond the initial quest, I just ignore them. I do hope the BASE game does nerf them somehow, because they do seem very OP to me.

 

4) IF there were a way to prevent farming from effectively disabling any food threat, WITHOUT effectively disabling farming, I'd be all in favour of that in the BASE game. Again, though, I see no way of doing that, nor has any suggestion I've seen been something I'd be in favour of.

 

Soooooooo, alllllllllllll that said, I think the point I'm trying to make here RIP, is that I'm ALSO in favour of TFP making the game sufficiently moddable so that a player could choose to completely edit out every single one of those mechanics if they chose to. I am particularly concerned that some players will be really turned off by digging zombies (it won't bother me, since I don't build underground bases), and that the gyrocopter will provide a completely risk free way of avoiding the Horde, but I like the fact that a player could do that by MODDING if they so chose.

 

The BASE game however, should provide a counter to every player strategy - where that is possible to do.

[LuckyStar]

RIP,

 

What I am an advocate for is the game catering to the maximum degree of player freedom possible, even where that player choice may, by consequence, effectively or specifically disable certain game mechanics.

 

Now, a few explanatory notes though:

 

1) I'm not in favour of the endless proliferation of menu options - the menu should be kept essentially basic, and players looking to tweak the game beyond that should do so through XML edits.

 

2) I'm ALL in favour of the BASE game preventing any particular strategy - whatever it is - from being an "I WIN!" button. Absolutely.

 

3) I advocate for that player freedom even when the player is making a choice that I would consider rendering the game boring or broken.

 

So,

 

I believe in the BASE game:

 

1) Underground bases should be subject to some significant level of threat and/or require some really beefy time and materials investment (ventilation would be my favourite pick here).

 

2) Riding around on a minibike or flying around on a gyrocopter all night during the Horde, should be expensive in terms of fuel used and/or really dangerous. That said, I see no way for TFP to enforce this really, without making the use of these vehicles at other times to be prohibitively expensive.

 

3) As Viktoriusiii has mentioned, I think Traders are OP, and indeed, I've made the personal choice never to use them - I don't personally like the idea of BUYING my loot at all, so beyond the initial quest, I just ignore them. I do hope the BASE game does nerf them somehow, because they do seem very OP to me.

 

4) IF there were a way to prevent farming from effectively disabling any food threat, WITHOUT effectively disabling farming, I'd be all in favour of that in the BASE game. Again, though, I see no way of doing that, nor has any suggestion I've seen been something I'd be in favour of.

 

Soooooooo, alllllllllllll that said, I think the point I'm trying to make here RIP, is that I'm ALSO in favour of TFP making the game sufficiently moddable so that a player could choose to completely edit out every single one of those mechanics if they chose to. I am particularly concerned that some players will be really turned off by digging zombies (it won't bother me, since I don't build underground bases), and that the gyrocopter will provide a completely risk free way of avoiding the Horde, but I like the fact that a player could do that by MODDING if they so chose.

 

The BASE game however, should provide a counter to every player strategy - where that is possible to do.

 

[RestInPieces]

RIP,

 

What I am an advocate for is the game catering to the maximum degree of player freedom possible, even where that player choice may, by consequence, effectively or specifically disable certain game mechanics.

 

To make myself clear, when I used that expression - like cancelling out or disabling certain game mechanics, I don't imply that this happens because a player may make a different choice and not use them at that specific time, but that they are cancelled out permanently by the other choice/strategy being a "I WIN!", as you said, button.

 

 

1) I'm not in favour of the endless proliferation of menu options - the menu should be kept essentially basic, and players looking to tweak the game beyond that should do so through XML edits.

 

Same, I had also made a (very unpopular) thread about it in the past.

 

2) I'm ALL in favour of the BASE game preventing any particular strategy - whatever it is - from being an "I WIN!" button. Absolutely.

 

Can't agree more. It's what I am saying all along.

ie/ if flying the copter around during horde night defeats even the new Horde AI, then people who don't like that, shouldn't do it (as opposed to the Pimps making the copter magically not work during horde nights). I imagine those players who want safe underground bases would make a very similar argument.

However by saying the above earlier I got the impression that you were in favor of the opposite.

 

 

3) I advocate for that player freedom even when the player is making a choice that I would consider rendering the game boring or broken.

 

As long as the player has to make a well weighted choice (which means that one of the options shouldn't be, with your words, an "I WIN" option and that each should have its own pros and cons). I don't necessarily disagree about boring - it's up to the developers to make interesting content in any form. As for "broken", I don't really know what you mean specifically.

 

1) Underground bases should be subject to some significant level of threat and/or require some really beefy time and materials investment (ventilation would be my favourite pick here).

 

Definitely. Been posting for ages about that. A dynamic environmental hazard would also be my pick. How come when I say that, people complain about telling them how to play? Is my tone problematic? Do my Engrish suck? I guess I'll never know

 

2) Riding around on a minibike or flying around on a gyrocopter all night during the Horde, should be expensive in terms of fuel used and/or really dangerous. That said, I see no way for TFP to enforce this really, without making the use of these vehicles at other times to be prohibitively expensive.

 

Absolutely agree - as I said to guppy earlier, an alternative to skipping a blood moon horde should require an - at least approximately - equal effort (of a different nature).

 

3) As Viktoriusiii has mentioned, I think Traders are OP, and indeed, I've made the personal choice never to use them - I don't personally like the idea of BUYING my loot at all, so beyond the initial quest, I just ignore them. I do hope the BASE game does nerf them somehow, because they do seem very OP to me.

 

Don't use them either, can't really comment on that.

 

4) IF there were a way to prevent farming from effectively disabling any food threat, WITHOUT effectively disabling farming, I'd be all in favour of that in the BASE game. Again, though, I see no way of doing that, nor has any suggestion I've seen been something I'd be in favour of.

 

There's a way for everything. Like we were discussing in the other thread spoilage is something that, in my eyes, is essential to even start thinking about making this change since it will prevent the exponential stockpiling of food that can happen even without farms and will keep farming/hunting relevant until the end-game. Spoilage by itself isn't enough for farming, so a better farm maintenance system - perhaps with a chance to lose crops - will do the trick. Even if farming completely solves the hunger threat, it won't "disable" it permanently and will ensure that the activity will stay relevant.

 

 

Soooooooo, alllllllllllll that said, I think the point I'm trying to make here RIP, is that I'm ALSO in favour of TFP making the game sufficiently moddable so that a player could choose to completely edit out every single one of those mechanics if they chose to. I am particularly concerned that some players will be really turned off by digging zombies (it won't bother me, since I don't build underground bases), and that the gyrocopter will provide a completely risk free way of avoiding the Horde, but I like the fact that a player could do that by MODDING if they so chose.

 

Never did I advocate against the player doing anything he likes via modding. The player may mod his character into a omnipotent laser-shooting unicorn for all I care. What I always advocate against is lack of motives/consequences and various "I WIN" strategies in the base game.

 

From a design perspective I want a survival game to offer a risk for all forms of tactics. So I am all for driving around all night long but make it risky and challenging to do so. I am all for people digging underground but make it risky and challenging to do so. I am all for people building stilt bases but make it risky and challenging to do so.

 

Chosen strategies shouldn't be impossible nor should they be guaranteed. Neither of of these extremes are good design in my opinion. I don't care how anyone decides to play the game but the developers should look at strategies and any that are guaranteed they should introduce a bit of challenge and/or risk.

 

Indeed. There should always be motives/consequences for each choice, because that makes them meaningful in the first place. If a choice presents two options with 1) a painless risk-free way to achieve/avoid something & 2) a risky hard way to achieve/avoid the same thing, it's not really a choice and doesn't promote playstyle freedom but quite the opposite.

[Manchild]

New?

 

We have minibike for years now.

 

Driving around all night still requires active participation and consumes players resources, you'll have lower risk, but you'll also have lower reward for doing so, however all requierments for healthy gameplay are there.

 

-players active participation

 

-there is risk involved

 

-reward is accordingly to risk and low

 

 

-resources are being used actively to survive the night

 

 

You are not circumventing gamplay loop of 7th day at all and you're still committing to it.

 

 

 

-players active participation

------------short for P.A.P right. It requires picking up a control.lol

-there is risk involved

-------------*They're. In a survival game noooooo?

-reward is accordingly to risk and low

------- ???????????

 

-resources are being used actively to survive the night

-----------so is bullets and rebuilding your base..

 

You are not circumventing gamplay loop of 7th day at all and you're still committing to it.

 

---------Back at you. You're* and i never played 7th day.

 

No where have you answered me how is riding a car more dangerous than defending a fort.Cuz its risky?thats basically your main point.