is A17 removing the much beloved run and gun aspect?

[ilukaappledash]

So i was browsing the patch notes because its been a while and something jumped out at me like a Screamer in a wardrobe.

 

"Sprinting only increases speed when moving forwards. Player can still walk backwards, but not sprint. 8/26/18"

 

So, does this mean we can no longer try and fight any sort of fast zombies? My favourtie thing to do late game is to go out during horde nights buzzing on enough caffeine to kill a small bear and sprinting around my base with a shotgun trying my best to expend 5000 Shells in one night.

But if we can no longer sprint backwards, does this mean we are going to have to stand still whenever we wish to shoot? Or is the idea to sprint towards the group of 20 strong feral wights who are fast enough to stick on your tail even when you are sprinting away from them?

Maybe this is all an overreaction, however the ability to sprint any direction and then turn and fire off your weapon of choice adds a lot to the run and gun aspect of fighting for your life against the really threatening enemies. No ones heart starts racing while picking off a horde of slow, dawdling grandma zombies. And ive never of heard of the game style "Run and walk then Gun then Run again."

[Morloc]

Doesn't Fallout prevent or reduce backward sprinting?

 

 

-Morloc

[SylenThunder]

Doesn't Fallout prevent or reduce backward sprinting?

 

 

-Morloc

Most games do.

[NBornkilla]

kill a small bear i did not know there where small bear xD

[ilukaappledash]

Forgive me, im confused. What does the Fallout Franchise have to do with sprinting in 7dtd?

 

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kill a small bear i did not know there where small bear xD

 

Theyre extinct due to their caffeine addictions. So sad. RIP Smol Bears.

[skullpoker]

Devs "Let's take the one advantage people really have against the undead: Mobility, and just take it right out of the game! That will be the stupidest thing we could possibly do! Yeah!"

[ColdGate]

 

" Player can still walk backwards"

 

 

Wow, you must be happy with this! Instead of complete removing backward move, devs only remove run. But looks like next step is completely removing this type of movement from game.

[Roland]

Forgive me, im confused. What does the Fallout Franchise have to do with sprinting in 7dtd?

 

Probably in reference to your last line in the OP where you said you've never heard of a game style that nerfs your ability to run backwards. Saying something like that invites people to start listing games that have that gamestyle.

 

Not being able to run backwards is the least of your worries for the old running and gunning. Ranged combat has been changed so that you are rewarded for standing and aiming and penalized for....er....running and gunning. Very few of your shots will land if you are running around shooting from the hip. You'll notice right away that when you are running the crosshairs are huge. Goodbye accuracy.

 

It's not all bad news. You can buy perks that give you the ability to run and maintain a small tight crosshairs for running and gunning. Who knows? Maybe they'll add a perk that allows you run backwards so that if people want to specialize in that type of mayhem they can do so.

 

For now and during the early game until you can get your skills up and purchase some perks you really will want to stop, aim, and fire whenever using a firearm of you'll use up a ton of rounds and still have a zombie problem.

[ilukaappledash]

Well maybe i should get around to playing Fallout some time. Ive heard its alright

This change definitely was a surprise when i saw it but as i browsed, a saw a post by another moderator (might have actually been you on a different post) mention that the zombies arent meant to be farmed and easy to kill, theyre meant to be a threat. This change will definitely do that to some degree.

Now that ive browsed other posts a bit, im really looking forward to see how it all plays out now. Might have to switch my style a bit which will be refreshing.

[JCrook1028]

Yea, you'll most probably have to switch your style. Going outside the walls to fight on horde night seems to be against the vision of the game now.

[Rez090]

We're getting punished for fighting the zombies period, this "temporary" and "permanent" damage they keep touting on about.

 

This is starting to feel like the devs are trying to create some hybrid FPS/RPG game. Where's the Minecraft-esque portion of the game gone? All this talk of buying perks for strength, agility, fortitude. This is not a RPG game we are playing, the players themselves are the RPG, we pick our own roles, not the other way around.

 

Why haven't the devs spent anytime trying to fix the water textures they don't care about? Or adding fishing to the game, boating across lakes/oceans, diving in lakes/oceans?

[Crater Creator]

 

" Player can still walk backwards"

 

 

Wow, you must be happy with this! Instead of complete removing backward move, devs only remove run. But looks like next step is completely removing this type of movement from game.

 

It may look like stating the obvious, but before we changed the phrasing, a surprising number of people thought you actually wouldn't be able to move backwards at all, as if pressing S would do nothing.

[Crater Creator]

Well maybe i should get around to playing Fallout some time. Ive heard its alright

This change definitely was a surprise when i saw it but as i browsed, a saw a post by another moderator (might have actually been you on a different post) mention that the zombies arent meant to be farmed and easy to kill, theyre meant to be a threat. This change will definitely do that to some degree.

Now that ive browsed other posts a bit, im really looking forward to see how it all plays out now. Might have to switch my style a bit which will be refreshing.

 

I think it's true that the developers don't see this as a run and gun game. I would have assumed that people that play the game that way, where they make up goals for themselves like using 5000 shotgun shells to keep things interesting, would welcome some added challenge.

 

It's hard to tell how things will turn out, because this backwards speed change isn't happening in a vacuum. It's coupled with significant changes to the zombies. Two big ones that come to mind are that the zombies will be able to melee attack while traversing, and they have a ton of AI changes to navigate better. So I'm sure I'll find myself in a situation at some point where I'm being chased by a running zombie, and I'm not going to know what to do. I won't be able to run backwards taking potshots at it, and I won't be able to confuse it into beating on a rock instead of coming after me. I don't see this as a bad thing, though. If I have everything figured out before I launch the game, it won't be nearly as interesting. So long as these changes don't pressure me into doing some new cheesy thing, it's probably for the best.

 

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Why haven't the devs spent anytime trying to fix the water textures they don't care about? Or adding fishing to the game, boating across lakes/oceans, diving in lakes/oceans?

 

I believe they are working on water rendering issues. And why should boats and fishing take priority over, say, AI that can properly navigate the world in more situations?

[Royal Deluxe]

We still have much space left until the perfect balance for snipers from Project reality

 

Sniper 1200m range (cant be done in voxel sadly)

Arround 35 Bullets you can transport

 

Shoot from hip = arround 3m Aim radius on 2 m Range

 

To shoot on 1000m

What until you are 0% exhausted

Prone

Set Sniper rifle in fixed mode aka bipod (Cant move)

Aim Target for 6 Seconds

Stop Breating

Aim 2 more Seconds

 

Hit on 1200m

 

-----------------------------

Short version

Sometimes things sound hard, but can be perfectly fine Gameplay.

[wizard puke]

And ive never of heard of the game style "Run and walk then Gun then Run again."

 

Yo there's this weird game you've gotta check out it's called counter strike. Maybe you've heard of it? My friend showed it to me the other day fifteen years ago.

 

E: Go play serious sam or painkiller and stop whining.

[Gazz]

Most games do.

Reality does, too.

If you look at sprinters you will see few of them sprinting backwards.

[Morloc]

 

 

-Morloc

[Scyris]

Bascally you know how in A16 you can hold S to walk backwards? ok good, now remember how you can hold the sprint key to sprint backwards making that backpedal faster? good, A17 removes sprinting from backpeddling, so all you will do is walk backwards. Other than that its unchanged you can still shoot while moving backwards if you want.

[TheStoryteller01]

Probably a calculated step for a better balanced PvP with some popular PvE styles getting collateral damage.

[Kinyajuu]

Bascally you know how in A16 you can hold S to walk backwards? ok good, now remember how you can hold the sprint key to sprint backwards making that backpedal faster? good, A17 removes sprinting from backpeddling, so all you will do is walk backwards. Other than that its unchanged you can still shoot while moving backwards if you want.

 

This is exactly right. You can W+D and W+A sprint as well so sprinting at angles still works. Just no strafe or backward only sprinting anymore, you have to have forward motion.

 

You don't NEED backward sprint or strafe only sprint. I've tested this myself. Also I'm an avid FPS player and run n gun is not at all going to suffer in a17. There is this thing for non CQB weapons called a tactical retreat. It's a valid strategy.

 

Lastly, the "walk" speed was sped up for a17, it's faster than before (not a whole lot, like 1/3 between a16 walk and run speeds). You likely won't NEED to sprint through a POI anyway as your "walk" speed is faster than the zombie's walk speed, again, not by much, but enough to make a difference in close quarters.

[Luzifer]

Okay listen.

 

Due to the new way stamina useage and running or rather "sprinting" works in a17 , madmole told us they also increased base walking movementspeed.

 

So from my view there wont be much of a change as yall are faster on default and still can walkrun backwards.

 

You can sprint forwards tho to get quickly ahead in case something unexpected jumps you out of the Dark.

 

 

Update: and here i sat 30 minutes trying to assemble an easy-to-understand-conclusion, and there goes Kinyajuu 10/10

[Viktoriusiii]

Forgive me, im confused. What does the Fallout Franchise have to do with sprinting in 7dtd?

 

I'm pretty sure this is leaning on the fact that TFPs want this game to be some sort of Fallout 2.

They have said multiple times that they wanted this since the beginning but only now, after the fanbase has been acustomed to a more crafting/survival game, they start implementing roleplaying aspects that, at least in some peoples perspective, ruin the survival crafting game, while simultaniously not becoming a better rpg (removal of learning by doing (aka spamcrafting)/introduction of skillpoints, quests and more).

[Roland]

I'm pretty sure this is leaning on the fact that TFPs want this game to be some sort of Fallout 2.

They have said multiple times that they wanted this since the beginning but only now, after the fanbase has been acustomed to a more crafting/survival game, they start implementing roleplaying aspects that, at least in some peoples perspective, ruin the survival crafting game, while simultaniously not becoming a better rpg (removal of learning by doing (aka spamcrafting)/introduction of skillpoints, quests and more).

 

Only now?

 

They started implementing RPG elements in Alpha 11 which was April of 2015 more than 3 years ago. Pretty much the alphas before that were primarily spent getting the terrain smooth and implementing random worlds. From Alpha 11 onward they have consistently added more and more RPG elements into the game. In fact Alpha 10 is often looked upon fondly as the culminating Alpha of the mostly sandbox era of the game before it started becoming an RPG.

 

Maybe that old wives tale about heating up the water slowly to keep the frog from jumping out of the soup is true...

[Roland]

-Morloc

 

Filthy Hunam!

[Viktoriusiii]

Only now?

 

who said something about "only now"?

I've been complaining since the beginning... well technically not true.

Back then skills were only an addition not a replacement and i didnt know that it was intended that way

 

Look ill defend this game to the death.

But not TFPs direction where to go with the game and what their priorities are. And making this game an RPG would be like Ark becoming an "FPS" midway through.

Or Command and Conquer becoming a cheap mobile ripoff... oh wait...

its their game. All the right to them. Its still retarded from nearly every perspective. And while you dont have to agree with me, neither do I

 

PS: I like some of the changes. No question.

But a lot of them are simply strange and weird. Like doing a graphical overhaul that takes at least 2 months of programming time to implement in an ALPHA... TWICE!!!