Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Gazz]

That's probably a much better idea. Make more food part of the starting kit, even as wolffblood suggests, meat stews. You could the starting kit adjust with difficulty if some folks thought that would be too easy.

If I wanted to scale down food consumption during the early levels I'd tie it into the newbie temperature protection buff.

Simple.

[xtra-01]

my future base

 

 

Hmm. They supposedly fixed that, I had some in the previous build but none in the current.

[wolfbain5]

To those going on about RWG right now, have patience. I work on gameplay systems too so I can't just spend hours upon hours on RWG right now. It's functional, the biome generator is running from xml again, now I need the time to clean it up. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or what would look best. It never is. It's a matter of having the time to do it.

 

With the way RWG was created this release I'll be able to work on it without breaking worlds that players already have. With that though do realize, if there is a crafting bug, I have to work on it, not RWG. If there is a problem with buffs or effects or animations or progression, I have to work on those, not RWG. See where I'm going here? My time is at a premium and RWG will get it's love, just not right at this exact moment. There are bigger fish to fry than tweaking RWG to "perfection" right now.

 

When it comes to RWG, have faith. I have things in the fire, I just don't have time to finish them up prior to the holidays so I put in what I had ready to go and put the biome stuff back to the old a16 version until I get the new cellular automata (self sorting) biome code in place. Then snow and desert will never touch

and it's output looks very similar to that blobby image above that someone posted (already tested in a test project).

 

ok, so you are the one. 4 big sections on your plate. when you get the chance. please add additional documentation the the rwg xml. that way we arm chair quarterbacks can tweak it ourselves easier until you are able to get around to it. {i mean this for next alpha, you already gave us your order of operations for this one}

[Frotus]

To those going on about RWG right now, have patience. I work on gameplay systems too so I can't just spend hours upon hours on RWG right now. It's functional, the biome generator is running from xml again, now I need the time to clean it up. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or what would look best. It never is. It's a matter of having the time to do it.

 

With the way RWG was created this release I'll be able to work on it without breaking worlds that players already have. With that though do realize, if there is a crafting bug, I have to work on it, not RWG. If there is a problem with buffs or effects or animations or progression, I have to work on those, not RWG. See where I'm going here? My time is at a premium and RWG will get it's love, just not right at this exact moment. There are bigger fish to fry than tweaking RWG to "perfection" right now.

 

When it comes to RWG, have faith. I have things in the fire, I just don't have time to finish them up prior to the holidays so I put in what I had ready to go and put the biome stuff back to the old a16 version until I get the new cellular automata (self sorting) biome code in place. Then snow and desert will never touch

and it's output looks very similar to that blobby image above that someone posted (already tested in a test project).

 

Thanks for that info, always good to know how resources are aligned so we know what to focus our Alpha testing time on. This isn't an easy problem to solve, so glad you will have time to dedicate to RWG once other things are addressed.

[Xeen]

A17 introduces the first iteration of a new random world generation system. People complain because it's not perfect the first time.

 

The devs explain they are working on it throughout experimental.

 

People complain.

 

The largest complaint was the biome placement (which for the record I liked).

 

The devs state they will return it to its former glory throughout experimental.

 

People complain.

 

Each build that comes out adds new random world changes.

 

People complain.

 

A new iteration of random world begins to bring back its "former glory".

 

People complain.

 

...if it was up to me I would either murder the lot of you, or ban you from playing experimental.

 

Clearly there is a large section of people that do not understand what work-in-progress means.

 

There is a huge difference between constructive feedback during experimental and complaining doing experimental.

 

Constructive feedback consist of stating what is changed, and why it does not play as well, and accepting an answer that states these features will be improved.

 

Complaining consist of stating what is not finished yet, and complaining that it is not finished yet, and expecting new systems to work straight out of the box.

 

You tell 'em Guppy!

[Axe13]

Sometimes this thread is more entertaining than playing the game even. Good job TFP, digging the new updates and the debates about them.

[Genosis]

To those going on about RWG right now, have patience. I work on gameplay systems too so I can't just spend hours upon hours on RWG right now. It's functional, the biome generator is running from xml again, now I need the time to clean it up. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or what would look best. It never is. It's a matter of having the time to do it.

 

With the way RWG was created this release I'll be able to work on it without breaking worlds that players already have. With that though do realize, if there is a crafting bug, I have to work on it, not RWG. If there is a problem with buffs or effects or animations or progression, I have to work on those, not RWG. See where I'm going here? My time is at a premium and RWG will get it's love, just not right at this exact moment. There are bigger fish to fry than tweaking RWG to "perfection" right now.

 

When it comes to RWG, have faith. I have things in the fire, I just don't have time to finish them up prior to the holidays so I put in what I had ready to go and put the biome stuff back to the old a16 version until I get the new cellular automata (self sorting) biome code in place. Then snow and desert will never touch

and it's output looks very similar to that blobby image above that someone posted (already tested in a test project).

 

Glad to hear my blobby image will one day be a reality! I will look forward to the more logical ordering of biomes. I will just set up a little chair and lean back enjoying the desert sun, and keep the beer nice and cold to my left cooling in the snow in the mean time.

 

So if I understood with this release it will be less game-breaking to not re-roll RNG maps from here on out? Would be great to spend a bit more time in mid-late game while still along for the experimental ride.

[Xeen]

To those going on about RWG right now, have patience. I work on gameplay systems too so I can't just spend hours upon hours on RWG right now. It's functional, the biome generator is running from xml again, now I need the time to clean it up. It's not a matter of not knowing what to do or what would look best. It never is. It's a matter of having the time to do it.

 

With the way RWG was created this release I'll be able to work on it without breaking worlds that players already have. With that though do realize, if there is a crafting bug, I have to work on it, not RWG. If there is a problem with buffs or effects or animations or progression, I have to work on those, not RWG. See where I'm going here? My time is at a premium and RWG will get it's love, just not right at this exact moment. There are bigger fish to fry than tweaking RWG to "perfection" right now.

 

When it comes to RWG, have faith. I have things in the fire, I just don't have time to finish them up prior to the holidays so I put in what I had ready to go and put the biome stuff back to the old a16 version until I get the new cellular automata (self sorting) biome code in place. Then snow and desert will never touch

and it's output looks very similar to that blobby image above that someone posted (already tested in a test project).

 

 

Can everyone just chill the hell out now? kk thanks.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

TFP: Welcome to the TFP kitchen. Today we are going to make French Toast.

 

-snip-

 

/condescending +20

 

HAHAHAHAHA hell yeah you tell 'em Roland!

[Drithyl]

@devs, I have a couple suggestions regarding the patchnotes that might help people to both give better feedback and to better understand the grand scheme of things.

 

1. Make patchnotes thorough and accurate. It doesn't matter if it takes an extra day for the new build to come out because of compiling patchnotes. List every single change, and detail exactly what the change is (i.e. instead of "increased harvesting XP", state the numerical change, "increased harvesting XP of rocks from X to Y amount". This also enables us to immediately spot bugs, rather than assuming that the devs made a grievous change, like what happened in the previous build with wood. If the patchnotes tells us that wood XP was increased from X to Y but in the game it actually is lowered, we know it's a bug.

 

2. For the changes themselves (not bug fixes), add the intent behind the change. A short sentence detailing why the change was made, and why the devs thought it necessary, helps to convey to the community that things aren't done in a random hit-or-miss kind of way. If a change is rollbacked because it needs tweaking and you plan on re-introducing it, state so. If the hunger and thirst are increased because testing revealed food to be a non-issue and you want food to have a more relevant place, state so. This way people can focus on suggesting solutions if they come up with better ideas, rather than simply bashing on things.

 

3. Post the patchnotes themselves in this thread, or a link to them. You don't want people discussing changes without reading the notes because they're in a different thread or they missed them.

 

I've gone through many experimental branches in games and alphas and betas, and the smoothest ones were those in which patchnotes were clear, thorough and informational as to what the devs' goal is. Since experimental is precisely for early testers to check it out and give constructive criticism, then the best you can do is to provide as much context as possible to enable the criticism to be as productive as possible. It's time saved in the end.

 

Finally, those users that want to express their disappointment with the general direction that things are taking can do so in a different thread, rather than in the same thread that's meant for discussing the changes and suggesting improvements. Keep things focused.

[Boidster]

UGH, thanks a LOT TFP, now I have to go read 20 pages of the latest gripes! You couldn't give me a full week on b221?!? YOU SUCK!

 

/s

 

Srsly tho, thanks for the 15-20 FPS boost! I get 50+ at times on my poor little old GTX960m and never less than 30fps. With the same settings in b221 I was getting 18-30. And the ground textures seem to look much better (I'm using the "full" setting). Boulders too.

 

No complaints from me, but I have to go read those 20 pages to see if I want to pile on anybody's gripe. Keep up the good work.

[betam4x]

I will post an official bug report once I reproduce, but the new builds appear to be making nearly vertical roads on some seeds again. The issue is that an update rolled out before I could get coords/screenshot/etc. I will play around with it tonight and try to reproduce. The seed I happened to use though was our beloved dexterra. I don't have the coords handy, so if anyone runs into it, make sure to report it.

[Bipolar Bear]

Between static biomes and random placement I'd suggest something in between like what I had for A16.

 

Making use of temperature ranges biomes went snow -> pine forest -> forest -> plains -> desert, with specks of burned forest and wasteland:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Due to health issues I never got to post the final result but it was pretty darn neat. I'm wondering if the current generator could do this too.

 

 

--- edit ---

This was posted before reading up on the last 10 pages or so...

[TARCH26]

Nightvision still not working.

[Lonestarcanuck]

If we wrote our forum post like they were for Twitter, we would save 1000s of digital trees.

[fragmentally]

Has anyone else been losing their vehicles during gameplay? I'm not sure if it's a bug or what. Running a dedicated MP server. Server has had 0 mods, completely wiped game folder with fresh install every build, and no saves since we have to start over at level 1 from the server wipe. Since B198 all player vehicles (bikes, minibikes, 4x4, motorcycles, gyro's) disappear. Sometimes showing up on the compass, then disappearing altogether upon log out and back in. Other times, just flat disappearing. LE will show the coordinates when it's still on the compass. Usually at some extremely high 1k number ****, 1026, **** for example.

 

Yes. My motorcycle disappears whenever I park it and wander into a city on foot to loot. I don't know if it might happen as I stand right next to it. I just notice after some time looting, the icon disappears from the compass.

 

Workaround: Don't put valuable crap in your vehicle!

 

I just spawn a new one in so I can continue testing, as I've already confirmed it doesn't matter if you build it, or cheat it in... it will disappear.

[Erik Louden]

It's noon on day one, I've eaten twice and drunk my water. I've starving and dehydrated. My stamina is less than 50% and I've barely left the starting area. This doesn't seem well balanced to me.

 

Eat charred meat and drink from streams and ponds, the debuff for food/water poisoning only lasts a few minutes and is pretty mild.

[Melen]

FWIW, I've never lost a bike, but I always pick it up as soon as I get off of it. I wonder if it has to do with leaving it out and walking to a different region. Just throwing out guesses.

[blazex64]

Is it just me, or do the textures seem fuzzier and more cartoonish?

 

Additionally, now and then when I jump into my game, I don't have the ability to craft. Is that the known recipes.xml corruption bug? When I back out and continue again, it's fine?

[Quantum Blue]

Yes. There is a chance a zombie will ragdoll another zombie in the way.

 

There's even a chance to get a z to climb up on another. (or even a dog. bottom or top. usually bottom.) Have tried getting a pair of two tiered z's and get real close but not at same time yet. While I can get 3 tiered z's (z pyramid) near a wall/etc. I don't think that's possible while retreating/walking/etc. (Doesn't even seem to be able to work with a z already on a dog.)

 

I have also successfully taken on a couple z hordes while 'riding' them. (well, for a little while... Something I did a lot in A16)

[xtra-01]

Is it just me, or do the textures seem fuzzier and more cartoonish?

 

Yeah they do but that’s because on this update, your graphics settings were nuked. So you’ll have to manually set up your desired scheme in the Video Settings menu.

[Gareee]

 

When it comes to RWG, have faith. I have things in the fire, I just don't have time to finish them up prior to the holidays so I put in what I had ready to go and put the biome stuff back to the old a16 version until I get the new cellular automata (self sorting) biome code in place. Then snow and desert will never touch

and it's output looks very similar to that blobby image above that someone posted (already tested in a test project).

 

 

Awesome news! This is all we really need... just give us some idea of what the roadmap is. If we know there is a planned destination, crappy stops along the way aren't that big a deal.

 

Please enjoy your well deserved holiday break when you finally get it, and thanks for your hard work!

[SlicksGirl]

Hmm. They supposedly fixed that, I had some in the previous build but none in the current.

 

over half our map is still floating buildings that collapse whenever sleepers spawn in them.. it lags the system

[Dwimmerlaik]

Everytime I get off the motorcycle I take damage, die, or get this error and it locks the game...

[FastBurst]

Is it just me, or do the textures seem fuzzier and more cartoonish?

 

Additionally, now and then when I jump into my game, I don't have the ability to craft. Is that the known recipes.xml corruption bug? When I back out and continue again, it's fine?

 

Check your video settings. I noticed the same thing and then I checked my video settings and they had all changed.

[Quantum Blue]

A17 introduces the first iteration of a new random world generation system. People complain because it's not perfect the first time.

 

The devs explain they are working on it throughout experimental.

 

People complain.

 

The largest complaint was the biome placement (which for the record I liked).

 

The devs state they will return it to its former glory throughout experimental.

 

People complain.

 

Each build that comes out adds new random world changes.

 

People complain.

 

A new iteration of random world begins to bring back its "former glory".

 

People complain.

 

...if it was up to me I would either murder the lot of you, or ban you from playing experimental.

 

Clearly there is a large section of people that do not understand what work-in-progress means.

 

There is a huge difference between constructive feedback during experimental and complaining doing experimental.

 

Constructive feedback consist of stating what is changed, and why it does not play as well, and accepting an answer that states these features will be improved.

 

Complaining consist of stating what is not finished yet, and complaining that it is not finished yet, and expecting new systems to work straight out of the box.

 

+99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

 

(only 4400+ hours since a14, computer gaming since 1972 (3000+ games), and I know MOST gamers, I mean ALL gamers, I mean all Earthers, I mean fellow galaxians, err, I mean everyone in the universe agrees with me...)