"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Alpha anymore."

[Reth]

To OP:

 

You are not the only one with some concerns over the new features. I do wish that they spend more time debugging/balancing/improving game mechanics currently in place rather that adding new ones. NPCs are cool and all that, but to create a reasonable AI for them is not a trivial feat. That alone may take many months and many development cycles to make right.

 

Take Fallout 4 for example. It is a AAA game but the follower's AI can get so bad you may be better off without any of them. I'm not sure TFP can do much better with the resources and game framework they have.

 

Having said all that, I find the game quite enjoyable already. Can it get better? Sure. Will it? Quite possibly. Will it ever be perfect? No bloody likely, it's just not the kind of a game that can ever be made perfect for everybody.

[Ravenclaw]

As far as I am concerned, they long list feature they planned to implement a long time ago, which they have clearly listed.

 

Several of those features are still not part of the game, so on that note plain and simple, the game is not finished.

 

 

Additionally the game still undergoing lot overhauls, which is NOT what you would want in a 'finished' product

[lug]

If I may try to speak to one of OP points; specifically "But we don't know what "feature complete" entails "

 

I think that is exactly the reason that your desire to pause new feature development and optimize to create a strong foundation is erroneous. The missing features may yet be the largest and most involved core functions. Optimizing now may be wasted effort if the new features require a new pass of optimization after the tendrils are discovered. I can't get on board with a suggestion based on a lack of specific knowledge that may cause additional work or delays.

[x2x_rocket_x2x]

Everyone has .02 to share, here's mine. LOL

 

An open world game such as 7DTD, is going to constantly want to add features. Joel has said (pretty sure anyway) that he is coming up with new things he wants to see in game all the time. I don't care if you/they keep it Alpha for eternity. So long as bug fixes keep coming and new features keep coming. I also would not care if some things has a price tag on them. This isn't an annual instance of COD or Halo or GTA. This is honestly, the first game I've thrown over 150 hours into and havent gotten completely bored with, haven't maxed out every stat, unlocked every trophy or achievement in. It's also the first that I don't care that I havent done the above. I just keep going because I always find something else I want to build. Some new way to destroy the horde. Some newish (mainly play on Navezgane I'm on PS4) area to explore.

 

I've moaned in the past, heck I may have on these forums, but knowledge and perspective come with time. We all have questions and concerns. Voice em. Just don't be mad when not everyone feels the same as you.

[Gazz]

This isn't an annual instance of COD or Halo or GTA. This is honestly, the first game I've thrown over 150 hours into and havent gotten completely bored with

That's a pretty common thing to hear 'round here.

And it's absolutely positively not the way "mainstream" games work. =)

 

Sure, it would be nice if it sold like COD XXXVII but given how well it does sell and that this is the (lead) developers' first game... it's a spectacular success.

[OzHawkeye]

That is the ONE point that needs to be put forth for those impatient with Alpha.

 

If there was only one, that would be it.

 

Alpha is not finished until the features are in.

 

It's just that simple.

 

Not so simple getting that point across, at times.

 

Yeah, I don't get why people just can't accept this.

 

Alpha = features still going in.

 

Beta = no new features (major ones anyway), bug fix and optimise.

 

Gold = release a hopefully bug-free, stable version (we can always hope right).

 

It's been that way ever since I can remember, and that's back to the 70's. It ain't new, or different, or revolutionary, it is what it is and what it has always been.

[x2x_rocket_x2x]

That's a pretty common thing to hear 'round here.

And it's absolutely positively not the way "mainstream" games work. =)

 

Sure, it would be nice if it sold like COD XXXVII but given how well it does sell and that this is the (lead) developers' first game... it's a spectacular success.

 

It absolutely is, and by no means am I dogging anything about the game. My point may have been lost in my head and not conveyed. Basically, game is great. Dont care if it ever gets out of Alpha. Game status shouldn't matter to the gamers playing it. Not everyone will be satisfied lol.

[LuckyStar]

But we don't know what "feature complete" entails ....and I see signs that the Fun Pimps have bitten off more than they can chew in that regard

 

And you have sat in on how many of their meetings again....?

 

How many?

 

So YOU know what they are doing and YOU know what's best and YOU know they are stretching.... etc etc etc.

 

Is that what you're saying here?

 

Just trying to understand your message.

[Xtorma]

This used to make a difference to me, but I have come to realize something in the years I have followed and played this game. As long as I am having fun , you can call the stage of it's development anything you like.

[Guppycur]

Did I win this thread yet?

[Roland]

People have been reading so called signs of doom and gloom since the beginning.

 

"I see signs that the Pimps have bitten off more than they can chew"

"I see signs that the Pimps are bleeding money"

"I see signs that the Pimps have no plan, no vision, and no roadmap"

"I see signs that the Pimps have no organization"

"I see signs that the Pimps are getting ready to abandon the game"

"I see signs that the Pimps don't have the skills to achieve their goals"

"I see signs that the Pimps will never leave Alpha"

 

The best answer to these people who forecast doom and gloom is to thank them and then to simply watch as time goes on how they are proven wrong. There is no need for white knighting in this case-- only patience. The OP is wrong and time will prove that. I've had more of these conversations than I can count....

 

But. thanks for the feedback and there is no need for worry. The Pimps have things well in hand.

[Bimbie]

I may be saying this from a biased position, but-

 

Alpha, Retail, AnniversaryEdition... I dont really care about the labels.

Whats important is that they have a native Linux client that runs good

[Zor_The_Cruel]

While I do disagree with the OP, Hrod Land was articulated and basically unemotional about bringing up a hot topic. And he has made every effort to not engage sleights to his character.(I found this very commendable) A lot of responders aren't reading his posts thoroughly before dismissing him as "another one of those impatient for bug-fix pass types" and lumping him in with other posts. He has valid concerns, even if they've been heard before, i don't get the lashback. He was never harsh or judgmental that I saw, just concerned about a game he cares about. The early-alpha release games have indeed become dime-a-dozen and many are in a sad state with little to be optimistic about.

 

Overall I do disagree with the points that the OP made as far as what the priorities are and what the devs should be doing. Features first for Alpha, bugfix and optimization for Beta, then full release with more sporadic patches later as needed. I have a lot of early access games, or games that were early access when I got them and are full release now. I think the TFP are handling the alpha for PC's better than most, definitely on the upper half of the spectrum IMO. I think console release was premature, but that isnt my call to make. Console release had me thinking like the OP, but after seeing the beauty of A15 changes/features, I am reassured that they arent calling it or wrapping it up prematurely. Carry on, but be polite and respectful. This forum usually takes the high road as long as the OP isnt trolling to flame and antagonize.

[OzHawkeye]

While I do disagree with the OP, Hrod Land was articulated and basically unemotional about bringing up a hot topic. And he has made every effort to not engage sleights to his character.(I found this very commendable) A lot of responders aren't reading his posts thoroughly before dismissing him as "another one of those impatient for bug-fix pass types" and lumping him in with other posts.

 

Well, I would certainly defend the OP's right to state his opinion, and indeed, I do. Anyone willing to post here, civilly and courteously, deserves the same in return.

 

That said, as you've pointed out in your post as well, the OP is - with all due respect - just flat out wrong.

 

Adding features still? Alpha

 

Optimising and bug fixing only? Beta

 

Done all that and ready to move on? Gold

 

I don't think he can (rationally) deny that the Pimps are still adding in features.

[Aldranon]

"The first casualty of any battle is the plan ..." (Said by many Generals in so many wars)

 

Some observations:

-Anyone who holds TFP's feet to the fire on a plan they made years ago, is just not a clever person.

 

-The 7D2D product has so far outstripped all my (and most people who are honest) expectations that it is funny actually!

 

-TFP are more rare than anything I recall and so should be respected for their endurance and pure gamer win.

 

 

 

------- Attention! The below is a non related topic ---- do not read ------- Non related topic ----- do not read ---------

 

Of course, if I see an Airship of any size, I will piss myself with joy! I will clean up the mess later, after playing for a few hours first.

 

P.S. Is a Zombie Bear crew asking too much? OKee then.

[Birkenhoff]

That's a pretty common thing to hear 'round here.

And it's absolutely positively not the way "mainstream" games work. =)

 

Sure, it would be nice if it sold like COD XXXVII but given how well it does sell and that this is the (lead) developers' first game... it's a spectacular success.

 

7DTD>COD=7DTD>"Mainstream" games.

I knwo, I know, I see the motive but I don't agree.

 

This is a community board. Go to a COD community board - better got to a Battlefield x board. Just check some playerstats and you will find the same nerds playing BF4 thousands of hours. (I don't know if COD has those stats, I guess it has but I never played it. Anyways you would find the same playerbase there, too).

 

This is a 'puting in features while bugs and glitches are present (alpha) vs. releasing a clean game and put in additional content by time' plot. Since many ppl seem to think doctrinal: v1 is been released, game's done, move along, nothing to see, we'll put our aim onto a new project and release some DLCs like "block skins " now and then, it's hard to argue why this game should be finished from the personal point of view. Maybe you're right, maybe not.

Maybe 7DTD will still be played in 6 years, maybe TFP will close it's door within the next 6 months. I just think those alpha-for-years thing has a negative connotation when I think of games like DayZ (the standallone) that were (is beeing) developed to death.

 

 

But it all boils down to the point, on *enter random community board here* never:

 

- start a alpha-retail-thing

- ask when the next game version will be released

- question the road map

- moan about bugs.

 

This is natural. In any community are people who prove their attitude as non controversal by gameplay hours. If you argue against this attitudes they'll team up, rail you from all sides and high five after that.

 

That's why you always hear the same pretty common things in any community.

 

 

Ah, I stopped having a humble opinion years ago. It's been IMO since then. =P

I stopped using the one or the other years ago. It's all about giving your 50c when you write in a forum.

[Guest]

Thanks Zor, I appreciate the backup, even if we don't agree on the points I made. I'm pretty sure I've stressed the original post is an opinion based on limited information (with request for more information if it's out there), but people are still acting like I rode in here on a high horse, making demands and predicting doom for this game if they're not met.

 

In short: most of you are sticking to the classic alpha frame, while I contend it's become moot with the new reality of widely released early access games. We'll see how it turns out.

 

I'll leave this thread for what it is since too many participants refuse to discuss without twisting my words, being passive-aggressive or just outright calling me stupid, and while I could easily go ham on them and drag this out for a couple more pages, I have better stuff to do. Playing games for examples. Enjoy your internet win, y'all.

[Ornias]

Go visit Star Citizen to see what a never done game looks like. Over 100 million raised to date and no alpha in sight.

[Fox]

Go visit Star Citizen to see what a never done game looks like. Over 100 million raised to date and no alpha in sight.

lmao, omg, really? I had even forgotten all about that game. That's ridiculous.

[Roland]

Huh...I just skimmed through the entire thread with moderator lenses on looking for those posts that should be managed and I couldn't find any. Pretty much every response was as respectful as one can be when you are telling someone they are wrong.

 

@OP: If you have something to report please do. Disagreement with your opinion doesn't count as personal attack but if there is one where someone actually called you stupid please direct me to it since that is against the rules.

 

You stated above that you probably don't have all the information and would like more so here you go:

 

1) The Pimps HAVE done several updates that were mostly optimizations and bug fixes. During this phase their only goal is to keep the game playable for most people. In this phase they are creating a test copy that can be executed and not a polished game that can be enjoyed. That is their perspective. Now of course the gamer perspective for many is to ignore the early access warnings and to expect a game that can be fully enjoyed.

 

2) The new features you mentioned as examples like electricity and bandits are not things thought up in the last month to add to the game because the devs played some other game and thought it would be cool. They are original Kickstarter goals planned and promised three years ago. They don't represent scope creep type of features that would better be released post gold as DLC's. They are part of the original scope that should be added during the Alpha phase.

 

3) They do a lot of experimentation and are not afraid to try something and then backtrack when it doesn't work out. This slows down development but it also helps them dial in to the best ways to do things.

 

With respect, you are welcome to voice your opinion (and you have done so eloquently and non-confrontationally)but when you make erroneous statements based on an apparent misunderstanding of the development history of this game (they HAVE done bug fix only updates) and a misunderstanding of new content (most of the new content of A16 was planned for from the beginning), then people are going to correct you and from what I can tell the posts that disagree with you have all been pretty benign in tone and language.

 

If I missed something please report it and I will deal with it.

[xiiMaRcLeoN]

People have been reading so called signs of doom and gloom since the beginning.

 

The end is near.

[Birkenhoff]

Go visit Star Citizen to see what a never done game looks like. Over 100 million raised to date and no alpha in sight.

 

Go to https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com and be an OP with this comment. You'll be surprised

[pApA^LeGBa]

well without reading anything but OPi say: things still added? regular updates and an active devteam that posts their current work and news? both a yes. so yeah it´s alpha and no it´s not dying and not a scam. (you can discuss if the survival part is a scam. right now it is close to it, but things still change.)

 

everyone who thinks it takes too long for an alpha: get some patience. fallout 4 took more than 6 years from what i know.

 

it is an alpha. that´s a fact. so that´s always an argument. simply because it is true...

[Aldranon]

The end is near.

 

When will the end be done? I vote for End part2 where people are pleasantly happy and fly around in Airships.

[Gipothegip]

I personally feel that this game's development is coming along slowly but surely.

 

It's taking them longer than most first anticipated, but it's happening and I haven't lost faith as they're clearly still working on it and engaging with the community. I bought this game two and a half years ago, back in May 2014, I had expected it to be finished by now tbh.

 

I also wouldn't expect the game to get heavily optimized or nearly bug free while they're still adding content. They're still putting in a good effort to kill bugs and get decent performance, but fully optimizing the game and getting rid of all the bugs can take a lot of work which can be undone easily by a new feature that requires a rework of code and infrastructure (and may not play well with other systems).