Perked vs Unperked Weapons

[Roland]

Just curious and interested in reading/participating in a conversation regarding this topic. Feel free to qualify or explain how you answered below-- especially if nothing listed seems to apply to you at all.

[Khissi]

In early game, you use whatever you get your hands on, and, if it's better than you can make, heck yeah!  Perking, though, now makes it easier to get to those weapons you enjoy more, though, my RNG sprites are arsehats and tend to give me less of what I want (magazines for my preferred weapon) just because they suck.  So... yeah.

[NekoPawtato]

I'm usually playing solo with warrior difficulty. With the new system in A21, I use the melee weapon I perk into so I can take advantage of the stamina reduction/stamina regen when doing kills. But I also supplement that with a bow or xbow, that I never perk into, for range/sneak attacks. In one of my A21 runs I was lucky enough to find a silencer so I would use that on a pistol or rifle instead of a bow (and I don't bother perking into rifles/handguns either)

 

In A20 I would just try to put as many points into sexy rex and go whacking zombies with the best stone sledgehammer I could find (some games I don't even perk into sledges). By the time the stone sledge is no longer effective against the stronger zombies, I've already switched over to guns. When I get to Mid game, I generally don't have issues using guns that I never perked into for day-to-day use (as long as I'm not using pipe weapons). Usually I take the strength tree and Perception tree but carry a pistol or machine gun for the ferals in POIs. I save shotgun for horde nights. Near very late game I end up putting some points into machine gun, only because I start building fortitude tree for mass super corn farming. I haven't gotten that far yet in A21 though.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by NekoPawtato (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

Personally, I tend to use the melee weapon I'm perked in (you kind of have to in A21) and the ranged weapons I intend to spec into with the exception of I always carry a bow/crossbow, even if I've never perked into them.  In my current game I carried an AK for a long time, until I got an SMG (which I had intended to perk into, I just hadn't at the time, though I have now.)

 

So in my current game I'm carrying a spear/crossbow/SMG and am perked in to all three (but I'm also perked into rifles and explosives, which I use on horde night.)

[Kazgrel]

Went with mostly for question 1 and yes for question 2, but figure some context is worth posting:

I almost always play with a group of 3-5 others, sometimes upwards of 8 total.  Early game we decide on who wants to spec into what, and we start doling out weapons/ammo based on that.  Usually we have that decided before we load up a new game.  While this sounds like it'd be an "always" answer for question 1, one outlier would be explosives; generally speaking, whoever's on perception usually levels up rifles, salvage op and (as of A21) spear before bringing demo expert up, so unless we've gotten our hands on some Atom Junkies early, we just have everyone hold onto whatever pipe bombs/molotovs they've obtained from quests/loot for the first couple of blood moons.

While I don't think perks are 100% mandatory, in a group setting like ours, where we have someone specced into everything, there's no reason for, say, me the strength guy using a pistol, outside of some extremely weird scenario where we have no shotgun shells and a surplus of 9mm ammo.

Another factor is that we play on Insane difficulty, so we want people to be using the weapons they're going to do the most damage with.  Couple that with said people also being fed whichever book set they need for their weapons (Pistol Pete, Shotgun Messiah, etc.), they're going to do even more damage with their perked weapon.  Solo/group and difficulty will definitely factor in for these questions.

[bloodmoth13]

I always carry a gun for each ammo type

Current play through I have smg, magnum, double barrel, And pipe machine gun lol, my gun choices are incredibly skewed and I have no real use for rifle ammo since my smg is far better.

I voted for using all weapon types but it might be better off sticking to one since my pistols are very good while others suck.

I might try a game where I spec 1 pt into every ranged weapon type to see how my weapon types progress

[Callum123456789]

When playing on insane using other melee weapons that you aren't perked into is a huge detriment but I'll use ranged weapons if my perked one doesn't have a ton of ammo or don't have that one.

[Khalagar]

I play on high difficulty so

 

• Early Game - You use what you get, and you don't have enough points to where it matters terribly
• Mid game - I use what I'm perked into 99% of the time but will use an unperked back up
• Late game - Only perked weapons

 

There's some nuances though. In a case like Int where you don't have an on perk weapon for most of the game, it feels really bad because your points are being "wasted" and you aren't getting relevant drops. Like early game the ONLY things you can get for the first week or so are pipe batons and nothing else. So investing in int early game feels like dog crap because you basically get nothing out of it. Especially so because pipe batons are straight up worse than clubs so early game you get nothing for your points besides a higher chance to see the worst weapon in the game both early game and late game.

 

Late game the perks make such a huge difference that you are just outright wasting ammo and resources using an unperked weapon. Lead spent making 7.62 ammo instead of shotgun shells for a strength build just means you could have had more shotgun ammo which would do far more damage.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[AtomicUs5000]

I can't think of a good way to answer.
I prefer to use what I think makes sense at the time. The type of base I set up for the blood moon also changes what I would use the most.

In some cases I'll use whatever I happen to have the most ammo of, and in others I'll try to melee as much as possible to reserve ammo.
In a POI by myself, I'll try my best to be quiet using bows, but if a greeny gets in my face I'm gonna pull out the shot gun.

[theFlu]

I'm abstaining from voting.

 

Difficulty plays such a huge part, but also the amount of cheese you're willing to go for. There's no hard DPS tests or any of the sort, so you can kill everything with a stone axe with a rad remover. You might not have fun doing it, but you could...

 

In practice, I play on warrior, maybe nudge up to survivalist as the game goes on when the zeds can't keep up at all. 95% in SP, rest in 2 player co-op.

 

There's two weapons I always carry, regardless of spec; bows and pipe bombs or molotovs. Both do a lot of work without a single skill point.

 

For guns, it's mostly main weapons only. I often carry two, one with AP, but mostly for avoiding reloads.

 

I might carry a 9mm to supplement a shotty or a rifle, or to save some ammo from an M60. But that's mostly just to clear out some weaklings, in essence, just faffing about.

 

I don't carry unspecced assault rifles, just because I kinda dislike them. They do work, but 150 rounds feels too little if you plan on relying on them, and wasting several slots for an alt gun.. nah.

 

And I Never carry unspecced rifles, as they don't really do much without the skills and even specced they need their own type of prep - so they're never really a functional alternative to the main weapon.

 

[Scyris]

4 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Personally, I tend to use the melee weapon I'm perked in (you kind of have to in A21) and the ranged weapons I intend to spec into with the exception of I always carry a bow/crossbow, even if I've never perked into them.  In my current game I carried an AK for a long time, until I got an SMG (which I had intended to perk into, I just hadn't at the time, though I have now.)

 

So in my current game I'm carrying a spear/crossbow/SMG and am perked in to all three (but I'm also perked into rifles and explosives, which I use on horde night.)

 

This is the downside to losing sex t-rex, unperked melee weapons and tools are just far to much of a stamina drain now to be viable even early game. Not to mention it costs double the perk points to get the max effect sex t-rex used to give globally... to only one weapon/tool line. You really feel the lack of sex t-rex on the wrench, while not a weapon, its a tool, and wrenching things drains my stam like mad now.

 

As for me, I only use the melee weapon I am perked into, as everything else just uses WAY to much stamina for the little damage it does due to the lack of perks. in A20 i'd used different ones earlygame if one was better but in A21 I pretty much stay locked to my initial choice mainly due to the stamina use. As for guns, I don't perk into these into later game, as early game melee is more than sufficent to kill any zombie, even most ferals other than the fatties, you kinda wanna pull out a gun for those. As for guns, I generally perk into the one thats in the same line my melee weapon is as it costs too many perk points to level another stat. I mostly play single player, so I have to do everything myself which basically forces me to always go str first for the mining tool perks, as they are too generally useful to not take.

 

Also as for guns, I feel the guns need a damage boost as a whole, as they just don't do nearly enough damage I feel. Even perked. Some guns are almost useless like rifles, due to the horrid accuacy of them, I've never seen such a inaccurate rifle in any game, takes way to long for the crosshair to center when ADSing, that its usually better to use any other gun type instead. Pistols are good due to the desert vulture, and the 9mm stuff is a decent backup. Shotguns just destroy very short range but very high damage. Automatics are your typical spray and pray, I just wish they had their own ammo that was cheaper than 7.62mm to craft, as its kinda silly that a automatic is using the same ammo of a sniper rifle, yet doing far less damage.

 

As for the melee/tool stam use I do have a suggestion, keep a21's system but front load it. First point gives maybe 20% stam use 40% less power attack stam use. Adjust following points so they add up to what it'd normally be at lv 5. I mean i'd gladly spend 1 point in salvage ops to reduced the wrench stamina use by those numbers, but the 8% and 15% power attack for lv 1 now just is not worth the point.

 

As for the questions, for the first one, I picked I generally only use the weapon I am perked into, with maybe a secondary I am partially into, with exceptions, crossbows and and explosives do enough damage even unperked to be ok to use. Crossbow mostly for sneak attacks and thats about it. For the second question, I picked at early game unperked weapons can do ok other than melee anyway (due to stamina use), but mid to late game you kinda need to perk because they just do too little damage later on without the perks and book series. You start to notice the issue around when you have ferals showing up, a unperked gun just uses up far to much ammo to kill them usually. Crossbow is just too slow unperked reload wise to be useful for anything other than sneak attacks. About only gun that "feels" right across all stages of the game is a shotgun, it could use a effective range boost thou for buckshot, without nerfing its damage.

1 hour ago, theFlu said:

I'm abstaining from voting.

 

Difficulty plays such a huge part, but also the amount of cheese you're willing to go for. There's no hard DPS tests or any of the sort, so you can kill everything with a stone axe with a rad remover. You might not have fun doing it, but you could...

 

In practice, I play on warrior, maybe nudge up to survivalist as the game goes on when the zeds can't keep up at all. 95% in SP, rest in 2 player co-op.

 

There's two weapons I always carry, regardless of spec; bows and pipe bombs or molotovs. Both do a lot of work without a single skill point.

 

For guns, it's mostly main weapons only. I often carry two, one with AP, but mostly for avoiding reloads.

 

I might carry a 9mm to supplement a shotty or a rifle, or to save some ammo from an M60. But that's mostly just to clear out some weaklings, in essence, just faffing about.

 

I don't carry unspecced assault rifles, just because I kinda dislike them. They do work, but 150 rounds feels too little if you plan on relying on them, and wasting several slots for an alt gun.. nah.

 

And I Never carry unspecced rifles, as they don't really do much without the skills and even specced they need their own type of prep - so they're never really a functional alternative to the main weapon.

 

 

Rifles would be fine if they had proper accuarcy for the gun type, rifles are usually the most accurate guns in a game even for hipfire, when ADSing in 7dtd you have to wait for the crosshair to center before and after a shot, this would be fine if its damage was far higher, but the damage on them is kind of low for all their draw backs, that and automatics have simmlar range to a rifle and are far more accurate than one, which is really akward. If I had a choice i'd mostly just pull out a automatic over a rifle at anytime as its just more accurate, and the fact its auto and a big magazine size means less reloading. Yes I am aware the lever action and sniper rifle exist but they still have the crosshair problems of all other rifles making their bigger magazine sizes mostly pointless.

[Darklegend222]

I've always used 2 weapons in the game. The first is a melee weapon which is usually a sledgehammer (maybe a club if I'm on a lower difficulty). Followed by a gun, preferably a machine gun or a shotgun. A machine gun is better for lower - mid range difficulties, and a shotgun is a MUST for harder difficulties since it does massive damage to enemies with that sweet AP.

 

With that said, I use throwables like pipe bombs and grenades during EARLY horde nights. Building a bottlenecked door with hatches out front makes for easy killing with explosives. Though the catch is that I NEVER perk into throwables, I rely on them only early game. That slowly changes as I progress till I have blade traps. They get used to build a dedicated kill box which I can grab loot bags from.

 

Now, with the addition of A21 allowing you to get MORE drops for a weapon specced into, I will ONLY choose 2 weapons so I don't get overloaded with many varying types of parts like I did with A20. For instance, in A20 I would constantly get steel spear parts when I really wanted AK-47 parts, but that's so much less likely and it's FANTASTIC. I can have a higher chance to get what I'm looking for and remove the RNG to a point where I'm more in control.

 

As for the second part. Weapons not perked into, are just not worth it to use. You can't kill a demolisher efficiently with a rifle that isn't perked into unless you have books, but at that point, just put points into the rifle, it'll take LESS ammo, do MORE damage, degrade LESS, and just be a joy overall. I'm not saying weapons that aren't specced into can't be utilized, but it's just not beneficial by any means to do so. You might get away with doing it in early difficulties like scavenger, but I reiterate what I said above.

 

[Mastermind]

I think for melee weapon, using the one you are specced into is more or less a requirement for the stamina alone. I'll sometime use the machete for the 800% crit(even though I didn't do the math to know if it's actually worth it 😛 ), but other than that, I'll only use the specced melee weapon.

 

For ranged, that's different.  I'll usually specs for the weapon in the same tree as my melee weapon.  But in most case, the tree's weapons don't cover all "use case". For example, strength,  you get the shotgun.  Shotguns are awesome... At close range.  So when I'm specced in shotgun, I'll always also carry a sniper rifle even if I'm not specced in it because it's a role my specced weapon doesn't cover. But I usually won't use the assault rifle because it overlaps in role with the shotgun. (Though, I might make an exception when I start drowning in 7.62s)

[katarynna]

I use the melee weapon I am perked into exclusively.  Ranged is different though. 

 

I always have a bow/xbow on my bar. Sneak attacks with a bow in a poi are my preferred kills, even without a single point in bows. If it isn't a one shot kill, it generally takes just one melee hit or headshot with my perked ranged weapon to finish them off.

 

I usually have a shotgun on my bar, unless i am using a machine gun or an smg. It's great when there are multiple mobs rushing you. When i thin the herd or slow them enough, i'll switch to melee or my perked range.

 

If i'm low on shotgun ammo (or for early game pipe machine gun always), i'll have a machine gun to use in similar situations that I would use the shotgun.

 

Early to mid game, I will bring a gun for each ammo type to horde night if there are any concerns about ammo supply for my perked weapon. I may not use any of them, or i may use all of them just to get use from the ammo, depending on the situation.

 

Explosives are always useful, whether perked or not and whether early game or late.

 

I don't play on insane, so not sure about that difficulty, but I have seen content creator videos where they have used unperked weapons even on insane and seem to get good use out of them. Especially the compound crossbow for stealth shots.

 

Different guns have different strengths and weaknesses. I may be fully perked into rifles, but if i see 4 ferals rushing towards me i want a shottie or machine gun to deal with them.