Sleepers even worse now.

[RipClaw]

9 hours ago, Laz Man said:

However, there are things placed in those setups for players to take advantage of to even the odds.

A radio with which I can call an army for help or something like this ? 😉

Edited June 27, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[david01228]

14 hours ago, RhinoW said:

I remember that one, but that one is just a trigger that "happens". I meant like the player pressing the button connecting to TNT or igniting a fire hazard to blow up a gas tank.

They do have some... at least one in shotgun messiah (not that it did anything OTHER than blow something up, but was still interesting the first time i hit it)

[Laz Man]

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

A radio with which I can call an army for help or something like this ? 😉

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

You joke, but I've pitched that idea for when we have bandits in.  No word if the idea was accepted...😁

[theFlu]

Bandits with miniguns..? Great

[RipClaw]

58 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Bandits with miniguns..? Great

Imagine a bandit outpost with a minigun on top of a tower. You fight your way up the tower to the minigun, the bandits run towards the tower and you mow them down. 😁

Edited June 27, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[theFlu]

13 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

the bandits are running towards the tower and you mow them down.

I like envy your optimism

Edited June 27, 2023 by theFlu (see edit history)

[Subasu]

I am glad I am not the only one who feels this is an issue.

[Khissi]

Honestly, I've had to lower my difficulty due to this, which, considering the fact that my advanced age has drastically reduced my ability to respond fast enough to keep me alive against a mob of those feral-radiated zombies, I've just stopped doing the Tier 5 POIs at all.  Sure, the rewards for them are borked at the moment, but I was enjoying learning the new POIs up until I hit Tier 5.  Most are just not fun even after adjusting difficulty to Adventurer, and I game to have fun. 

 

I love jump-scares, don't get me wrong, but I have more fun figuring out how to outwit the POI rather than being just bum porked for absolutely no reason.  If I can't find a way to get to sleepers using ninja skills and brains, if I'm absolutely going to have to rely on shotties and AKs and spray-n-pray for those areas, it's just not as much fun for me.  I'm okay with the majority of the Tier 4s.  Some have that mechanism built in, but not most and certainly not all.  So, I'm still having fun with my game and have no desire to quit.  I'm just a bit disappointed that I'll have to wait until I'm playing MP with friends to see some of the newer ones.  I have no desire to 'god' mode it.  I like surprises... just not mean ones.

[The Civillian]

Zombies spawning infront of you in a POI is just immersion breaking, lazy and 100% not needed.

Your in a POI, SPAWN all the zombies for that POI, if it's a lot, then use a lower poly model for the zombies that are further than 20 blocks away or whatever.

[NekoPawtato]

23 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

  Hide contents

Also, gas barrels and other similar blocks blow up faster with less bullets in A21. 😎

 

 

I never really thought of using those. Now I can have fun throwing rocks to get a bunch of zombies near it and then blow them all up 😛

Edited June 28, 2023 by NekoPawtato (see edit history)

[Jugginator]

11 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

You joke, but I've pitched that idea for when we have bandits in.  No word if the idea was accepted...😁

 

Only if Trader Rekt is the one to answer the radio calls.

[elwooood]

I often hear from players that stealth don't work. I don't know why but I don't have any problem with it. since T3 to T5, all my POI are made in stealth and no zombie move (except the one set to jumpscare or some room that zombie are hidden on roof without hole to see them, but if I sneak back enough, I can kill it/them without wake up the next ones). Just finish hospital this evening, only one z wake up by mistake of me. I notice a thing, when I enter a large room, no red dot are showed but by looking around they are here. (by the way; I think you all do it but, I remove all things on floor, using no armor, insane difficulty, only 3 in stealth and slow progression, so, dunno why it won't works on several players)

[david01228]

11 hours ago, elwooood said:

I often hear from players that stealth don't work. I don't know why but I don't have any problem with it. since T3 to T5, all my POI are made in stealth and no zombie move (except the one set to jumpscare or some room that zombie are hidden on roof without hole to see them, but if I sneak back enough, I can kill it/them without wake up the next ones). Just finish hospital this evening, only one z wake up by mistake of me. I notice a thing, when I enter a large room, no red dot are showed but by looking around they are here. (by the way; I think you all do it but, I remove all things on floor, using no armor, insane difficulty, only 3 in stealth and slow progression, so, dunno why it won't works on several players)

So the old POIs for the most part are still stealthable for now. They put in a few wake up trigger points in the factories but at least they are points that make 100% sense, and do not spawn in zombies behind you. the NEW tier 5 POIs like the county jail have several points where the zombies are not even existing until you hit the wake up trigger, then they are spawning in behind you as well.

[Scyris]

13 hours ago, Jugginator said:

 

Only if Trader Rekt is the one to answer the radio calls.

 

That radio wouldn't last long as I could see most people smashing it for how much of a jerk that guy is, even thou its not the radio's fault. Sudden rage can make people do weird things.

14 hours ago, The Civillian said:

Zombies spawning infront of you in a POI is just immersion breaking, lazy and 100% not needed.

Your in a POI, SPAWN all the zombies for that POI, if it's a lot, then use a lower poly model for the zombies that are further than 20 blocks away or whatever.

 

Same could be said of the smart zombies, way to easy to herd them exactly where you want them, compared to a16.4 where they would come from random sides and just smash the first block they found in the straightest line to you no matter how many blocks they needed to go thru. This was when blood moons were actually fun, because you had to defend all sides, bloodmoons now? Super easy to just herd them to a kill box, don't even have to defend the other 3 sides they can be ignored, even if the zombies spawn in that direction they'll ignore it to take the easy path.

[NekoPawtato]

just wanted to share that I managed to stealth through the final area of prison_02 recently, without using the side room @Jugginator used 🤯 I wasn't expecting it to go that smoothly

https://imgur.com/a/b3x8tLO

 

I actually took some time on the roof to assess/plan where I was gonna go. I noticed the pallet on the table was quite tall so I figured with my max parkour I could stand on it and shoot if I really had to (...altho I didn't give myself an SMG so that probably wouldn't last me very long). I also saw the torch area below me was kinda high so I thought maybe I could use that too to shoot from. Tho when I finally saw how close the zombies were once they ran up to me I sort of panicked and hopped off.

I ended up using the pallets to run/hide behind and get the zombies to lose my trail

 

Also found that rocks are your friends and very good at getting the zombies to move away from you so you don't end up getting buried in zombies when they lose you while you're right under their noses

[Renathras]

On 6/18/2023 at 4:14 PM, hiemfire said:

 

Some? When any are designed in this manner it is "frustrating", to put it mildly. Setups like this are effectively a dev side toggle to disable perks they feel interfere with the experience they want the player to have.

This is my problem. The way it is now, many (all?) POIs seem to have zombies spawn after you enter a certain part of the POI. This isn't INHERENTLY a problem (saves on memory, I guess?) for most of the POI. But there's a weird thing starting in Tier 2s and really some Tier 1s that is when you enter the last room, the Zombies spawn and are instantly on you. I've even noticed this in the Tier 1 gas station with the dog in the back. I see the yellow dot, go back there, no dog. No sleeping dog. No nothing. I have to get all up on the dog house itself before the dog spawns, away and instantly agroed and generally behind me no matter which direction I'm facing somehow.

It's like "why even have Agility/stealth as an option for a build in the game if it's going to be so negated?" It's bad enough horde night completely invalidates stealth, but the POIs doing it as well?

[Survior]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:31 PM, david01228 said:

"trap points" that would wake up the sleepers no matter what when you hit a threshold, and made it even worse in that the zombies DO NOT SPAWN IN until you hit that specific trigger point.

Can I say it, clearing POIs was never the highlight of my 7d2d experience, just an aspect of it. This is really super annoying mechanic that just gets more and more abused each alpha. Along with ceiling zombies and boxed up zombies, zombie crates, etc. It is quite frankly why my play style has always been to focus on base building and subsistence and doing POIs/quests as I felt like it. I'm so frustrated that TFP think that POI quest runs should be 99% of the game loop.

 

 

 

[seven]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:07 AM, david01228 said:

So the old POIs for the most part are still stealthable for now. They put in a few wake up trigger points in the factories but at least they are points that make 100% sense, and do not spawn in zombies behind you. the NEW tier 5 POIs like the county jail have several points where the zombies are not even existing until you hit the wake up trigger, then they are spawning in behind you as well.

 

Yeah, I've done 2 of the new T5 pois, the county jail and old folks home. The jail lobby was just like your video, cross a point and zombies start pouring out the bathrooms. No problem I think, just run outside for more space. Oops, a horde of zombies are pouring in from the previously empty parking lot. Then there's one of the cell blocks. I think the only entrance if you don't bust your way in is drop through the ceiling. So, you get down there and suddenly zombies are pouring out from every direction. Parkour jumping off the stairs and running back up, and an SMG kept me alive.

 

My first clue that the poi designers weren't playing fair was creeping down a stairwell at the rest home. Stepped out and suddenly zombies spawn in ahead. Start backing up, and oh oh, zombies in the empty stairwell. After that I was half expecting traps everywhere. I also sink most of my early points into agility with run&gun, parkour, etc. so I made it through both POIs with only moderate damage.

 

Both POIs are really well done, but this mechanic is not fun and I did not enjoy them at all.

Edited June 30, 2023 by seven (see edit history)

[faatal]

On 6/18/2023 at 2:45 PM, hiemfire said:

Minor correction, the mechanic isn't new. It is a slightly tweaked form of the pre-A20 attack volumes that the POI creators are making use of. (Edit: Looks like you'd mentioned this in your posts earlier, I was correcting what you said in the recording when I typed that.) In my opinion they're abusing it and doing so in a way that completely neuters the change made to zombies set to attack.

 

@faatal What the hell was the point of changing from autotargeting attack spawns to FTS referencing alert spawns if the the POI designers just do this instead?

 

@pApA^LeGBa is right, and I did say this before when it was "just" attack volumes being an issue, if this is how TFP wants the POIs to function then we're better off with the "stealth" perks not even being in the game and instead replaced with something more flavored towards the Run & Gun style their POI designers are focused on. As it stands now From the Shadows and Hidden Strike are player corpse run traps that both waste perk points and do not fit where TFP is taking the game.

Trigger volumes are new and POI designers want sleeper volume zombies to attack you when triggered that way. There is no stealth check like an attack sleeper volume has. I play agility/stealth, but never expect it to work 100% of the time. My solution is fight them head on or run away, lose them and come back, then stealth kill them as triggers only happen once. Repeat as necessary.

 

Nothing is locked in stone. All values in the game are candidates for tweaking. I think we have made balance adjustments to every stable release, since I have been working here and I'm sure 21.1 will have some adjustments as we play more and get more feedback.

[hiemfire]

33 minutes ago, faatal said:

Trigger volumes are new and POI designers want sleeper volume zombies to attack you when triggered that way. There is no stealth check like an attack sleeper volume has. I play agility/stealth, but never expect it to work 100% of the time. My solution is fight them head on or run away, lose them and come back, then stealth kill them as triggers only happen once. Repeat as necessary.

 

Nothing is locked in stone. All values in the game are candidates for tweaking. I think we have made balance adjustments to every stable release, since I have been working here and I'm sure 21.1 will have some adjustments as we play more and get more feedback.

 

First part has me boiling a bit but I won't go into it. All I'm going to suggest is, if the stealth perks are kept in game, before you guys tweak things involving volumes to balance things out try and figure out what the hell is up with what @Jugginator demonstrated in their vid they shared involving zombies being able to collide with and push around a sneaking player or have a suppressed mag dumped next to their head by a sneaking player and remain oblivious to the player being a possible target. Iirc Jugginator's point for the vid was demonstrating that the "breadcrumbs" system does work well, which it did, but what the zombies were doing reminds me of sneaking around unperked in iron and steel at lvl 50+ and not waking up anything weaker than a rad in A19, which is a problem. Addressing it the other way around (volumes then base sneak issues) strikes me a likely to cause twice the work to get to the same place.

 

Just incase they haven't been able to ping the rest of you on your side things with what they've been seeing and if you hadn't noticed it yourself here is the link for the vid they shared earlier that I'm referring to.

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by hiemfire (see edit history)

[Khissi]

25 minutes ago, faatal said:

Trigger volumes are new and POI designers want sleeper volume zombies to attack you when triggered that way. There is no stealth check like an attack sleeper volume has. I play agility/stealth, but never expect it to work 100% of the time. My solution is fight them head on or run away, lose them and come back, then stealth kill them as triggers only happen once. Repeat as necessary.

 

Nothing is locked in stone. All values in the game are candidates for tweaking. I think we have made balance adjustments to every stable release, since I have been working here and I'm sure 21.1 will have some adjustments as we play more and get more feedback.

I sure am glad you said this.  I outgrew spray-n-pray/heavy armor a good 4k hours ago and really didn't want to go back to that.  I'm old, and my reaction time just is not what that style of play needs. I don't mind occasional crazy, but... man, some of those trigger points need to be looked at OR give us a setting that tones it down a hair.  Thanks!

 

Oh, and please tell whoever did the map icon/compass coding 'I LOVE IT!' and I'm really glad they added the little blurb that tells you what's happening when you click the icon.  I had wondered where my compass marks for the trader went.  I'd also like to remove two of the THREE Trader Rektum entries that cannot be deleted but popped into existence when I entered his compound on day one of b323.  It's strange that we can't remove them.

[minisith]

4 hours ago, Khissi said:

I sure am glad you said this.  I outgrew spray-n-pray/heavy armor a good 4k hours ago and really didn't want to go back to that.  I'm old, and my reaction time just is not what that style of play needs. I don't mind occasional crazy, but... man, some of those trigger points need to be looked at OR give us a setting that tones it down a hair.  Thanks!

 

Oh, and please tell whoever did the map icon/compass coding 'I LOVE IT!' and I'm really glad they added the little blurb that tells you what's happening when you click the icon.  I had wondered where my compass marks for the trader went.  I'd also like to remove two of the THREE Trader Rektum entries that cannot be deleted but popped into existence when I entered his compound on day one of b323.  It's strange that we can't remove them.

If you click on any map markers you can now hide or make them visible again.

[theFlu]

I had to pause a vid at the great wisdom of the sage Kage848 (at about 22:35),:

"Oh, come on, game!"

 

Here's 20 secs leading into it

 

 

[RipClaw]

45 minutes ago, theFlu said:

I had to pause a vid at the great wisdom of the sage Kage848 (at about 22:35),:

"Oh, come on, game!"

At least he can still run away if necessary, but there are rooms you jump into and there is no way out. You are surrounded by zombies and you have to fight your way out.

 

[theFlu]

4 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

At least he can still run away if necessary, but there are rooms you jump into and there is no way out.

Yeh, the practicality of that room isn't bad; just the implementation - in A20 that would've been worth a bug report, but with the new shenanigans, I don't think it's worth one now.

 

For rooms you have to drop into.. I'm not against that entirely. As long as the zeds are there whenever I can see them, and the rubble below me isn't magically steel so I can ladder it up if I want. It might be an obvious trap, but as long as it at least obeys physics ... or some such