Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[mstdv inc]

Is A20 really becoming a pumpkin on the eve of the A21 release?It's still delicious and you can make a pie out of it 🥧
I'm also waiting for A 21, but I don't stop enjoying playing A20 😉

Edited September 6, 2022 by mstdv inc (see edit history)

[Doomofman]

43 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

It's no so bad yet...haven't seen any dave Chappelle memes yet...😅

 

[Trankitas]

48 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

It's no so bad yet...haven't seen any dave Chappelle memes yet...😅

[Rabbitslovecactus]

2 hours ago, Trankitas said:

[Laz Man]

4 hours ago, Trankitas said:

 

[Syphon583]

3 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Laz Man must have kids 😆

 

I personally could always use more Bandit.

[Andrew Eddie]

13 hours ago, WaywardEko said:

Would love to get some updates on where things stand and any rough timelines.

Translation: how many more runs through Undead Legacy should we plan to do

[mstdv inc]

1 hour ago, Xeen said:

Wait the game is limited on how many cores it can use? What a bummer man, I guess my 12 core CPU isn't going to help me in this game, that is depressing.

It turns out at this stage, provided the CPU is the same, the game will prefer an increased frequency per core than a larger number of threads.
6/6 4GHz will be better than 6/12 3GHz if I understand everything correctly.All this is not taking into account the bandwidth of RAM and video card.These two can also limit the performance of the game.

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Xeen said:

Wait the game is limited on how many cores it can use? What a bummer man, I guess my 12 core CPU isn't going to help me in this game, that is depressing.

There are also limits from Unity. Apparently some type of stuff is automatically handled by Unity on "the main core/thread" (whatever that is) and faatal can't split it onto other cores, because he doesn't have control on some stuff. (Note: I'm not a programmer, so I may have used wrong words/terminology).

[Xeen]

43 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

There are also limits from Unity. Apparently some type of stuff is automatically handled by Unity on "the main core/thread" (whatever that is) and faatal can't split it onto other cores, because he doesn't have control on some stuff. (Note: I'm not a programmer, so I may have used wrong words/terminology).

Yeah I'm not a programmer either, I just made a bad assumption that the game engine would be opportunistic and use as many cores as were available.

[Jost Amman]

19 minutes ago, Xeen said:

Yeah I'm not a programmer either, I just made a bad assumption that the game engine would be opportunistic and use as many cores as were available.

Well, a good engine should be! I hope the Unity devs can improve this part in the future.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[executor2]

13 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Well, a good engine should be! I hope the Unity devs can improve this part in the future.

 

Its not Unity , i fired up both 7d and Rust. Both are build in unity.

7days uses 4 cores , and the rest are down to 6%, while Rust uses 50% on all my 12 cores.
Its just the devs not investing time in proper threat handling

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Pyrrhrick said:

With how the water survival mechanics are getting an overhaul as it was felt that it was too adundant / the survival mechanic became obselete early on, is food getting a look at too?

 

As food is binary (food or not food) it's really easy to overcome this in the first couple of days.

 

I've always liked the split between food types in other games (e.g. protein, carbs, fats) so you can't rely on one food type (e.g. bacon and eggs, boiled meat). Balanced this way, it means you only really could get on top of food in the very late game and would be encouraged to scavenge / farm more.

 

Just wondered whether there was appetite for this kind of change at TFP or whether you guys are happy with where food is at for gold and think a change like this would be more for modders? Only really raising it due to the convo around water.

 

Food isn't that trivial when you play in co-op as more players compete for the limited resources in a small area (like animals, nests and trader/vending machines), only quest kitchens and buried supplies quests are resources halfway growing with number of players.

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Food isn't that trivial when you play in co-op as more players compete for the limited resources in a small area (like animals, nests and trader/vending machines), only quest kitchens and buried supplies quests are resources halfway growing with number of players.

 

Yeh I guess people have different experiences so balancing around everyone is tough! I always find, whether solo or in a group, I find enough looting, food from traders / vending machines / birds nests or wild animals to only ever really struggle for the first day or two. Usually swimming in cans and boiled meat after that! But yeh I appreciate it's not the same for everyone.

 

Edit: I'll also add, just to throw an extra point on the fire to be annoying, even though late game food offers some buffs there's only a few options worth taking and a lot of food ends up being redundant. Having a mechanic where food variety was important would help use more of the game's assets for longer. Just my $0.02.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Pyrrhrick (see edit history)

[Xeen]

4 hours ago, executor2 said:

 

Its not Unity , i fired up both 7d and Rust. Both are build in unity.

7days uses 4 cores , and the rest are down to 6%, while Rust uses 50% on all my 12 cores.
Its just the devs not investing time in proper threat handling

That is interesting. I wonder if The Fun Pimps would like to comment on that.

P.S. I believe he meant 'thread' not 'threat'.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Xeen (see edit history)

[Mister Forgash]

4 hours ago, Pyrrhrick said:

With how the water survival mechanics are getting an overhaul as it was felt that it was too adundant / the survival mechanic became obselete early on, is food getting a look at too?

As food is binary (food or not food) it's really easy to overcome this in the first couple of days.

I've always liked the split between food types in other games (e.g. protein, carbs, fats) so you can't rely on one food type (e.g. bacon and eggs, boiled meat). Balanced this way, it means you only really could get on top of food in the very late game and would be encouraged to scavenge / farm more.

Just wondered whether there was appetite for this kind of change at TFP or whether you guys are happy with where food is at for gold and think a change like this would be more for modders? Only really raising it due to the convo around water.

I also, would really love to see something like this implemented as long as it wasn't -that- punishing. An incentive to have a varied diet as opposed to living off boiled meat for the first XXX timeframe. That said, I'm thinking Dev time, at least for now, is much better off being invested elsewhere.. and maybe food will be re-balanced through loot scarcity to be in a slightly more challenging spot [Though that does nothing to incentivize a complex/balanced diet].. but Maaaaan do I hope it gets another pass before gold.

.. Worst case, I know we have passionate, brilliant, hardworking mod writers out there that can make it a more in-depth experience -maybe there's a few that already have, I haven't started experimenting yet. It easy to stand here on the sidelines and want 'More - More - More!' but I know every time we ask for more, we're getting less somewhere else... gotta pick your battles.

[Xeen]

I think the community has been very involved with the development of the game, and therefore it is their passion that has pushed the devs to be involved in the forums themselves, and listen to the thoughts of the player base that has been with them throughout the build of the game that we all love.
This interaction has yielded a better game in the long run.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Xeen (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

5 hours ago, executor2 said:

 

Its not Unity , i fired up both 7d and Rust. Both are build in unity.

7days uses 4 cores , and the rest are down to 6%, while Rust uses 50% on all my 12 cores.
Its just the devs not investing time in proper threat handling

Well, I may have misunderstood what @faatal said on that topic then.

It's surely possible I didn't get the tech stuff right, maybe he just said that currently 7D2D can only use a few cores and that switching to more would take too much time? 

[Mister Forgash]

7 minutes ago, Xeen said:

Surely for someone with your level of talent it would be nothing to add a couple extra cores for us guys with nice computers that could put all that power to work making the game run even better for us.

I totally get wanting to have the game run the best as it can on your big rig- but as part of the potato crew, I sure hope they work on optimizations that everyone can benefit from first, rather than making making us poor folks/cheapskates feel pushed toward getting a new CPU..

Edited September 10, 2022 by Mister Forgash (see edit history)

[Roland]

7 hours ago, executor2 said:

 

Its not Unity , i fired up both 7d and Rust. Both are build in unity.

7days uses 4 cores , and the rest are down to 6%, while Rust uses 50% on all my 12 cores.
Its just the devs not investing time in proper threat handling

 

He said DX12 compatibility was up to Unity. He never said that using more threads was up to Unity. He did say that it wasn't his first priority on how to spend his time because he would rather work on solutions that will improve performance for everyone rather than invest the type of time necessary to switch the game to using more threads. It's not even a decision he would make by himself. It would be up to the owners to allocate resources and time to doing that.

 

1 hour ago, Xeen said:

Surely for someone with your level of talent it would be nothing to add a couple extra cores for us guys with nice computers that could put all that power to work making the game run even better for us.

 

You said this while quoting him where he literally said that his focus is on improvements to help all rather than improvements to help the few of "us guys". He never said it couldn't be done. He was telling you he won't do it unless that is what he is directed to do by the owners.

 

Also, his name is Shawn. Not Shirley....

 

 

1 hour ago, Mister Forgash said:

I totally get wanting to have the game run the best as it can on your big rig- but as part of the potato crew, I sure hope they work on optimizations that everyone can benefit from first, rather than making making us poor folks/cheapskates feel pushed toward getting a new CPU..

 

Don't worry. That is exactly what @faatal was saying he is doing. There is just a bit of selective listening happening by those who don't like the way those words were put together...lol

[Damolann]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Also, his name is Shawn. Not Shirley....
 

Heh nice, an Airplane reference.   Just watched that again two days ago...

[Fanatical_Meat]

33 minutes ago, Damolann said:

Heh nice, an Airplane reference.   Just watched that again two days ago...

Track down files of the Police Squad!

it is a tv series before the Naked Gun. Aged but still good stuff.

[Jinx_DG]

On 9/4/2022 at 2:38 AM, RipClaw said:

You could also have this little problem as a single player in A21. And there you don't have anyone who can supply you with better equipment. You have to either craft it, buy it or find it.

 

Balancing the game will not be easy. There are players who like to loot non-stop, but there are also players who like to build or spend time in the mine. The question that concerns me is, what is the player type that the balancing will be based on? How many days a week will I have to set aside my hammer and pickaxe to scavenge?

 

As a single player in the current alpha I have to... "either craft it, buy it or find it."

Hasn't every alpha been like this? Isn't that part of what "playing" the game is?  Balancing the game is Never easy, nor will it or has ever been perfect. Your concern with how it will be balanced between 2 focused based groups is shortsighted imo. There are no just non stop looters nor just builders/miners (for SP).  Non stop looters need to build/prepare for horde night survival. Builders/miners need weapons for horde night survival. Having magazines won't change that fact. As for which type of player balancing will be based on? The same as it's based on now.... Both. 

 

If all you want to do is build/craft and not loot you can play the game that way, if all you want to do is loot and not build/craft anything you can play the game that way too. Your survival expection would be low to none I'd think, but that's what this game is all about. Surviving. To survive, certain actions must be taken/carried out to improve your odds. How you play the game determines your survival odds. 

 

The game is actively trying to kill you. Does not matter what "type" of player you are, the game wants you dead. Magazines, Perks, Skills, Looting, Building, Mining, Crafting, Farming, ect are all ways to Improve the Survivalbility Odds. So yeah, you do have choices despite your claim that no real choice can be made. You choose how many days to set aside your hammer and pixaxe to scavenge. Just remember even with all the right choices and all the best odds the game wants you dead and at some point it'll get what it wants. 

On 9/4/2022 at 4:11 AM, RipClaw said:

It's not always that simple. Maybe you not only need better equipment, but you also need to finish the new base because the next horde is coming in two days and you still need resources.

If you simply go on a magazine hunt, you might end up with a half-finished base and hardly any ammunition left. And in the worst case you are still missing some magazines to finally have the better weapon. That's why balancing becomes even more important in A21.

 

Your concern for A21 Magazine balancing will no doubt be handled like previous balancing concerns, take weapon parts as an example, with ajustments as needed. You need to loot x number of parts to craft a better weapon. Do you go looting for needed resources to craft that better weapon or do you finish the base because horde night is coming? How do you or anyone else handle this conumdrium currently? 

 

 

On 9/4/2022 at 6:27 AM, RipClaw said:

And that's exactly the point. You have to be able to make a real decision.
 

If it is not possible to find the required amount of magazines to upgrade my equipment in the remaining time, then it is better to continue building in the hope that the base will be finished and still hold with the existing equipment. There is then no real decision one could make.

 

The same could be said about the current alpha. If I can't find the ... "required amount of magazines *resources* to upgrade my equipment then it's better to continueing building in the hope that the base will be finished and still hold with the existing equipment." 

 

In the current alpha, wouldn't the same conclusion you stated apply? That there is no real decision one could make? Your focusing on making the addition of magazines the "bad guy" that every issue you are concerned about can be applied to the A20, A19, A18...ect. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Jinx_DG (see edit history)

[EggsAisle]

12 hours ago, Xeen said:

I think the community has been very involved with the development of the game, and therefore it is their passion that has pushed the devs to be involved in the forums themselves, and listen to the thoughts of the player base that has been with them throughout the build of the game that we all love.
This interaction has yielded a better game in the long run.

 

There was a time when Madmole would post on here almost every day. Answering questions, posting screenshots, occasionally arguing with someone who didn't like what they were hearing... it was awesome. And he kept at it for *years*, which you have to consider on top of everything else he was doing (the team was a good bit smaller then.) Say whatever else you will about him, the man is passionate about the game. I kinda miss those days, it hasn't been quite the same since A18ish. But it's completely understandable, he's got to be busier than ever with the company growing, future projects, life outside of games, etc.

[RipClaw]

9 hours ago, Jinx_DG said:

As a single player in the current alpha I have to... "either craft it, buy it or find it."

This sentence was a reply to a post about how Learning by Loot in A21 affects co-op gameplay. When playing co-op you often have someone in the group crafting the gear for the other players.

 

9 hours ago, Jinx_DG said:

Your concern with how it will be balanced between 2 focused based groups is shortsighted imo. There are no just non stop looters nor just builders/miners (for SP).  Non stop looters need to build/prepare for horde night survival. Builders/miners need weapons for horde night survival. Having magazines won't change that fact. As for which type of player balancing will be based on? The same as it's based on now.... Both. 

One would like to think that there are no "only looters" but unfortunately this is not so. Many new players play the game basically as a loot shooter. That's where my concerns come from. If the developers think that the majority plays that way anyway, they could adjust the balancing so that their progress is slowed down, which makes it even slower for everyone else.

 

I understand why people play that way. Because it is possible and it is easy.
 

You can loot every item you can craft and often even in better quality. What you don't find you can buy from the trader or get as a quest reward.

 

And who needs to build a horde base if he just has to punch some holes in the ceiling of a POI to make it a "I'll shoot the zombies from above and throw some Molotov cocktails down" horde base ? Have you ever watched the current series on the Youtube Channel of JaWoodle ? His current horde base consists of 6 blocks and he had to remove a few blocks from the stairwell. That's all it took to convert the ruins of the Eye Kandy factory into a suitable horde base.

 

By the way, ammo and Molotov Cocktails are common quest rewards you get for T1 and T2 quests. You just need to spam them and you have everything you need for a horde night.

 

Many have also given up farming. On the one hand because it is too tedious for them to harvest and replant everything and on the other hand because it is not necessary. You can find plenty of cans and often enough in an airdrop a food package which is enough for a long time. And if you really have a shortage you only have to make a hunting trip to the snow biome.
 

9 hours ago, Jinx_DG said:

In the current alpha, wouldn't the same conclusion you stated apply? That there is no real decision one could make? Your focusing on making the addition of magazines the "bad guy" that every issue you are concerned about can be applied to the A20, A19, A18...ect. 

No, in the current alpha version it is different than it will probably be in A21 based on the information we have. Whether I loot, mine resources or build, I get XP that results in skill points. I can then use these to unlock new recipes or to increase the quality of what I can craft. For example, if I build a base, I usually get enough skill points to get Advanced Engineering to level 3, which unlocks almost all traps.

 

In A21, the perks no longer unlock recipes and I either have to find the required magazines for the traps beforehand or I have to find them later. So building or mining doesn't do anything for me anymore in terms of what I can craft.
 

I'm not making anyone the bad guy here, I just wanted to remind the developers looting is not everybody's favorite activity. Players who like to build or spend time in the mine also loot, only they loot less and accordingly their progress in A21 will be slower. It just shouldn't be too slow.
 

Edited September 11, 2022 by RipClaw (see edit history)