Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Telly G]

20 minutes ago, Roland said:

Weapons and tools should have a finite lifespan. I don’t think they should degrade to lower quality tiers. They just should become unrepairable. Maybe you can repair something twice but after that the repair kit doesn’t work and the item is only good for parts. This would be a significant change to improve both crafting and looting. I did a play through where I immediately scrapped repair kits and it was great. I’ll probably start that up again. Repairs for primitive stuff is fine but anything that needs a repair kit should be limited.  Think about the diamond edge mod that extends durability. Who the heck cares how long durability lasts when a single repair kit restores it to full again? 

This is similar to how dying light 2 handles it. Weapon upgrading is the only means to repair a weapon, not every weapon has upgrade slots to use, most only have two and cannot be re-applied. Once it's done, you just drop it. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Telly G (see edit history)

[Gate guardian]

What is the darkness falls discord I can't find it

[meganoth]

28 minutes ago, Roland said:

Weapons and tools should have a finite lifespan. I don’t think they should degrade to lower quality tiers. They just should become unrepairable. Maybe you can repair something twice but after that the repair kit doesn’t work and the item is only good for parts. This would be a significant change to improve both crafting and looting. I did a play through where I immediately scrapped repair kits and it was great. I’ll probably start that up again. Repairs for primitive stuff is fine but anything that needs a repair kit should be limited.  Think about the diamond edge mod that extends durability. Who the heck cares how long durability lasts when a single repair kit restores it to full again? 

 

If you want to allow 1 repair only then

1) you need some flag on the weapon to show if it was repaired already.

2) you could as well just double the durability of the weapon and remove repair kits completely.

And in case you want to suggest now that changing the repair-rounds to two or three, that won't change my argument much.

 

Degraded performance is just a natural way to show and give a feel for the limited lifespan of a weapon.

 

I would prefer to just add a cumulative -5% damage and reroll the weapon stats every time the weapon gets repaired. You would still keep the slots (which is one of the problems of quality degradation) but the weapon would slowly and visibly degrade in comparison to newer weapons, even if that cumulative number is not shown.

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[overgoat]

52 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

I feel the same.  This may have been more hardcore in A20 but with A21, it might be more feasible.  If its still too hardcore at least pipe weapons should be irreparable to help balance them out.

 

Those pipe machine guns are still way OP imo.

I like the idea in concept, but having your weapons break and become unrepairable mid-blood moon would be very frustrating.  We have have pretty high zombie count set on our blood moons and I usually have to repair my M60 six or seven times a blood moon.  Having to carry tons of extras of the same weapon wouldn't be too fun.

 

Also part of the game is fun searching for that rare RNG with really great stats.  If your uber gun that your searched for weeks for broke after a couple repairs it would hurt.

Maybe have the stats slowly degrade until you repair with weapon parts?  I would also think you'd have to scale up the durability by weapon levels much much higher as well in a system like this.  A purple should last far longer.

[Hazitru]

11 hours ago, Dimpy said:

Just coming here to say I'm very happy with the crafting skill revamp. There was always something that felt off in A17-20 about directly spending perk points to unlock semi-essential recipes, and this revamp also solves the problem of learning-by-spam-crafting and the out-of-order random nature of pre-A17 schematics. I'm sure there are going to a few kinks in the initial implementation, which might take another alpha to sort out, but this system feels like it has really good potential.

 

Is there going to be a loot container representing those tables full of magazines you see in dentists or doctor's offices?

 

I agree, I dont think people don't craft guns because of anything skill related. It's just guns and bullets are so common to find why waste any time making it ? Make them super rare then people will be forced to make them or be stuck with a bow. That's the only way to fix I see for that situation. 

[meganoth]

15 minutes ago, Hazitru said:

I'm not sure how we feel about the learn by looting. That would just be weird in a game like this where there's so many things you'd want to be good at instead of just for example be one thing like bows and have to find magazines. 75% of the player base loves the learn by doing,

 

And 97% of forum users just invent percentage numbers 😁

 

15 minutes ago, Hazitru said:

many people are playing darkness falls mod just for this feature alone.

 

And some like me play DF even though they hate that feature, because that mod is a very well-made expansion of the base game

 

 

56 minutes ago, JamesKirk said:

I dont't know if my question was answered yet.

What about Multiplayer Team games? Will one party member still be able to find magazines that another member lacks?

 

Your question was answered, you will still find magazines of a type you have completed, just not with the probability-boost you get from the perk

[BFT2020]

55 minutes ago, overgoat said:

Also part of the game is fun searching for that rare RNG with really great stats.  If your uber gun that your searched for weeks for broke after a couple repairs it would hurt.

 

T0 weapons don't have randomized stats.  So that pipe machine gun you found on Day 1 will have the same stats as all the pipe machine guns you find at the same quality level.  The only difference on T0 weapons are based on the Quality level.

 

The only issue becomes at T1 or higher level; though the upside is that you have to keep searching / looting / crafting to keep having those weapons.

Edited May 23, 2022 by BFT2020 (see edit history)

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, P3rf3ctVZer0 said:

@meganoth I mean because they can easily see Ip and port basically hackers can exploit that. Something got control of my server tower which I only used to host 7 days to die because 7 days to die does nothing to protect the host on ports visibility and ip. I managed at one point to anger a full hacker group who joined the public server I was hosting. At the time I never considered losing my entire network to cheaters.

They used two major points of attack

- Cable haunt : previously may 2019 an exploit which allowed bad actors to overwrite modem bios in this case linksys xfinity variants.

- Powershell Backdoor : Hacker Group Used Kilara Linux to absorb access to all pcs on network. PS they used the handle 3y3 at the end of their names; mind you this info is probably useless now. 

How they found me specifically; 7 Days to die. I only had things opened for 7 days to die. The bigger issue is because the game at the time had 0 end to end encryption and basically blasted my ip the individuals had sniffers and attacked the network the game was hosted on. At this point honestly my game play will never be public on my home network because it is too risky.

Damage they did

- Dropped Payloads on all electronics. (Yes I mean that litterally aside from switch all phones pc and tablets had been poisoned by a remote control hacker payload.)

- The original tower that was hosting the game got bios firmware hacked. Hackers even mocked me by spoofing a drive and making so board had a false ameritrends bios version. 

 

- The Final Nail was even after I got rid of all malicious code flash and flushed all electronics (1 Week of Work) I was ddosd.

In summation - the server hosting software as is as actually very prone to being dangerous.

Solution - If you have the people set of the server like normal but you encrypt ip info and ports but you assign a hash to each server and keep what the hash points to encrypted then as long users all use the server browser then people should be able to safely host servers with no possibility of a hacker being able to know what ave the server is set up as.
 

This is all you need to attack an every day user.
 

I hope this helps illuminate how dangerous hosting this game is. I am going to bed. Do what you will with my nightmare I lived. I just know that this game has security flaws on top of the other stuff.

 

If you have a public server, anyone simply can try to connect to your server and he will see your public ip with a network sniffer, even if you don't allow his joining. Encrypting the server browsers information does not help at all except delay the discovery of your IP by 20 seconds.

 

I'm very sorry you had to go through this. I just don't see how the IP address of the server can be concealed. The main defense must be securing all the services that listen at ports and especially the router. Having the router under their control is a powerful weapon in the hands of an attacker.

 

If they entered your PC through the server port of 7D2D then TFP should do something about it.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

@pApA^LeGBa More like I’m using your post to get my point across that I’m okay with Khaine being right about the perception people have about our forum than thinking that you want those people here or approve of their behavior. 

I don’t doubt it. I will have had cancer 20 times over and family that will have died in a house fire about as many times if personal messages came true…lol

 

Even just not agreeing with people who want a release immediately is enough to get such nice messages.

[Syphon583]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:56 PM, saulysw said:

Can you please make it so that a trader doesn't give you a reward, and then have it fall behind the counter so you can't get to it? This is particularly an issue when you get a double reward, and of course an already full inventory. The frustration there is rage-quit real. I know, I should never front up to a trader with a full inventory, but still! I also had a dropped reward despawn really quickly, which sucked too.

That is a frustrating issue for sure. But there is something you can do that the UI does NOT inform you of at all: hit the ESC key to back out of the quest reward window. You get the option to browse their inventory where you can sell items to clear up space, or just back out entirely and go store stuff in your vehicle or temporarily in one of their containers (trash piles, cupboards, whatever). When you press E on the trader again, the quest reward window will appear (with the exact same rewards, if I'm not mistaken).

[Telly G]

the Pimps have a bad problem of totally remaking systems that ultimately pigeonhole ppl more into having to play the game how they feel it should be played at that time rather than expanding upon the sandbox and have been doing so since like a14 or 15. They constantly try and counteract builds youtubers make or hammer down on bizarre niche strategies/playstyles when it's like trying to kill the ocean with a sword.

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

3 hours ago, Hazitru said:

I'm not sure how we feel about the learn by looting. That would just be weird in a game like this where there's so many things you'd want to be good at instead of just for example be one thing like bows and have to find magazines. 75% of the player base loves the learn by doing, many people are playing darkness falls mod just for this feature alone. It's realistic and immersive. I think you guys should bring it back and also throw magazines in the mix as well. But just learning strictly from magazines I don't think will be well liked, too much RNG where there doesn't need to be. And I could see many issues with multiplayer.

 

I agree almost entirely.

 

Learn by doing made perfect sense, in that running and mining actually improved over time and skill level went up.

 

That was an amazing system and that genuinely did add reasonable extension to play time. It suited me perfectly and it encourages good team work in multiplayer, wherein bigger hordes meant more protection, and that increased work demanded and a division of labour.

 

The pitfall for some (though not necessarily for me) was in creating lots of weapons to make a better one. This continued refinement could; as you said, be resolved by having a learn by doing system/ magazine hybrid to make more sense of weapon crafting improvements whilst at the same time leaving room for LBD and also encouraging looting.

 

You may have really hit on something brilliant here. Great point 👍🏻

Edited May 23, 2022 by Beelzebubs Ghost (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

41 minutes ago, Telly G said:

the Pimps have a bad problem of totally remaking systems that ultimately pigeonhole ppl more into having to play the game how they feel it should be played at that time rather than expanding upon the sandbox and have been doing so since like a14 or 15. They constantly try and counteract builds youtubers make or hammer down on bizarre niche strategies/playstyles when it's like trying to kill the ocean with a sword.

 

Don't feed into the devs vs player misconception that is mostly due to YouTuber click bait.

 

Roland has already stated the reason for the change.

[Roland]

23 minutes ago, Telly G said:

the Pimps have a bad problem of totally remaking systems that ultimately pigeonhole ppl more into having to play the game how they feel it should be played at that time rather than expanding upon the sandbox and have been doing so since like a14 or 15.

The explanation for this is simple: TFP has always intended to make an actual game with rules and constraints and not a pure sandbox that allows for all player choices. Pre A14 the game was extremely unfinished with placeholders and basic framework in place but very few of the rules that make a game a game. Post A14 has been the back half of the game where placeholders have been replaced with the actual features that will be active upon release and the rules of the game are being enforced. The sandbox experience is still there. You simply enable the creative menu and voila, you can build and mine to your heart's content and never have to loot a single container. Just open that creative menu and take all the needed magazines and you have freedom to do whatever you want. But that isn't a game and TFP is most definitely designing a game. So the short answer is that yes, people are going to get pigeonholed into doing some things if they expect the rewards that come from following those rules. Loot and you will expand upon your crafting abilities and library of recipes. Don't loot and you will have to rely on what others bring you and what you can purchase at the trader. Maybe some people bought this game to play it like Minecraft and chill. They can easily do so if they enable the creative menu. With the creative menu enabled this is a super chill building game. God mode makes it even more so.

 

The developers view scavenging and looting as a major core essential part of the gameplay and they have been filling it out and giving it more depth over the last couple years. Its not a bad problem. Its their intentional design. Honestly, I remember running around the world in A6 looting looting looting. If you want a game that de-emphasizes the role of scavenging then you will have to mod this one. Luckily, the devs are also committed to allowing that to happen.

 

39 minutes ago, Telly G said:

They constantly try and counteract builds youtubers make or hammer down on bizarre niche strategies/playstyles when it's like trying to kill the ocean with a sword.

 

Myth. They don't do that at all. They simply fix bugs that affect zombie pathing and collision on blocks. Sometimes that results in someone's use of certain blocks or reliance upon certain zombie behaviors to have to change but the devs aren't gunning for youtubers. lol.

 

[Odetta]

5 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

I feel the same.  This may have been more hardcore in A20 but with A21, it might be more feasible.  If its still too hardcore at least pipe weapons should be irreparable to help balance them out.

 

Those pipe machine guns are still way OP imo.

Have it so everytime you repair an item the max repair (100%) goes down by 10%

So say I have a pistol and I repair it. Now it only repairs up to 90% durability. If I repair it again then it only repairs to 80% durability.  This keeps happening until only 10% durability remains. It will not go lower than 10% but starting at 30% max durability you can add debuffs. 30%: weapon does 20% less damage. 20%: 10% chance to misfire/jam. 10%: weapon has a 5% chance to instantly break. 

 

 

[Laz Man]

25 minutes ago, Roland said:

Myth. They don't do that at all. They simply fix bugs that affect zombie pathing and collision on blocks. Sometimes that results in someone's use of certain blocks or reliance upon certain zombie behaviors to have to change but the devs aren't gunning for youtubers. lol.

 

I enjoy watching you tubers play 7d2d as much as the next guy.  However, I don't like it when they create some type of monolog like "TFPs have nerfed my base!  But don't worry, I will best them at their own game!"

 

Its those type of commentary that gets people riled up, especially the hardcore fans of said streamers....

 

Some are borderline fanatical and will raise the pitchforks and abandon all reason lol....

Edited May 23, 2022 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Hazitru]

23 minutes ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

I agree almost entirely.

 

Learn by doing made perfect sense, in that running and mining actually improved over time and skill level went up.

 

That was an amazing system and that genuinely did add reasonable extension to play time. It suited me perfectly and it encourages good team work in multiplayer, wherein bigger hordes meant more protection, and that increased work demanded and a division of labour.

 

The pitfall for some (though not necessarily for me) was in creating lots of weapons to make a better one. This continued refinement could; as you said, be resolved by having a learn by doing system/ magazine hybrid to make more sense of weapon crafting improvements whilst at the same time leaving room for LBD and also encouraging looting.

 

You may have really hit on something brilliant here. Great point 👍🏻

 

That's a excellent point ! Learning by doing was and would be perfect to return in this game. Everyone would progress at what they want to progress at naturally by doing stuff. It feels more rewarding if I build alot then my building stats would be high, if sneak often then my sneak goes up, if i use pistols then that goes up... very fulfilling for the player.

 

The magazines could be used for crafting tiers or recipe unlocks so you wont spam craft things as what happened in the past which is why it was taken a away. I think the system Darkness Falls have is a great breakthrough and should be brought to vanilla, the action skills compliment the game very well. Then you could throw in the magazines for crafting idea with that and make it work somehow. 

[Old Crow]

On 5/23/2022 at 7:22 AM, Roland said:

Weapons and tools should have a finite lifespan. I don’t think they should degrade to lower quality tiers. They just should become unrepairable. Maybe you can repair something twice but after that the repair kit doesn’t work and the item is only good for parts. This would be a significant change to improve both crafting and looting. I did a play through where I immediately scrapped repair kits and it was great. I’ll probably start that up again. Repairs for primitive stuff is fine but anything that needs a repair kit should be limited.  Think about the diamond edge mod that extends durability. Who the heck cares how long durability lasts when a single repair kit restores it to full again? 

No., This is a horrible idea. If you would rather scrap your hard-earned tools instead of repairing them, fine. Don't force that garbage on the rest of us.

[Roland]

5 hours ago, Old Crow said:

No., This is a horrible idea.

 

Why? You obtain a tool and it lasts forever so you never craft another and all others found of same or lower quality are useless. Attachments that extend durability are meaningless. Parts accumulate that you never will need and finding those parts are ho-hum. That tool crafting recipe is useless. You will never need to craft that recipe. Once you have the best there is no more "use whatever is available and survive" type of gameplay.

 

OTH, you obtain a tool and use it until it is used up and cannot be repaired. You scrap it for parts and now gaining a replacement is relevant. Finding a duplicate tool is something you save until your current one breaks. Parts are useful the entire game. Mods that extend the durability of tools are valuable and useful. You may end up using your crafting skill several times over the course of the game. Even once you obtain the best, eventually it will be gone and you will be back to that "make do with what you've got" type of gameplay until you can craft a replacement.

 

In every single way finite tools are better than infinite tools for how this game works with looting, crafting, and attachments. Lots of games have this mechanic as well so it can't really be that horrible of an idea. I understand that you don't like permanently degrading tools but the design is sound and as noted above makes other features of the game more meaningful.

 

5 hours ago, Old Crow said:

If you would rather scrap your hard-earned tools instead of repairing them, fine.

 

haha..I'd rather use my hard-earned tools until they are used up and then hard earn another one. That whole process of earning the tool is fun, no? Its part of the gameplay and personal objectives we have. You spent weeks in game anticipating and working towards getting that great tool. Once it finally wears down and is gone you get to experience that journey again to get another one though it will probably be easier this time.

 

Plus, its not really the hard-earned tools that are the problem. Its the lucky non-earned find in the first week of a tool that lets you permanently skip and invalidate a whole swath of recipes and progressive gameplay. If tools are finite then its okay if you get an awesome blue steel pickaxe from a truck in the wasteland during the first week. You'll use it but eventually it will be gone and then you'll still be glad when a yellow steel pickaxe drops into your lap instead of nonplussed.

 

5 hours ago, Old Crow said:

Don't force that garbage on the rest of us.

 

LMAO....yes, one suggestion posted on the forums equals forcing everyone to play my way. Fine fine fine....I take back my suggestion. You are free to resume playing the way you want. The crushing grip of my idle proposal is loosed. I relinquish my voodoo power and grant you license to continue repairing your tools.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[beerfly]

8 minutes ago, Mad_Dane said:

Making an open world crafting game, where you gimp crafting (Best items can only be  looted) and where you force every one to play ONE WAY, go loot or build your gdamn castle with a stone axe and be a gimp forever!
What is with your damn fetish for forcing everyone to go loot?

Well, there are not any delivery services in the apocalypse, how else are we gonna get our stuff.

 

Yes, to be able to build castles. 

 

P.S. Again, we haven`t even tried the new stuff. Behave. All. Including me. 

[Mad_Dane]

2 minutes ago, beerfly said:

Well, there are not any delivery services in the apocalypse, how else are we gonna get our stuff.

 

Yes, to be able to build castles. 

 

P.S. Again, we haven`t even tried the new stuff. Behave. All. Including me. 

Don't want a delivery service, just want to craft my own gear when I have mined resources and processed them!
I have played since 2013 and they have done nothing but slowing down progression and forcing people to play one way, ONLY THE WAY MAD MOLE LIKES OR GTFO!

[beerfly]

11 minutes ago, Mad_Dane said:

<snip>

Gotcha, but also we can`t stop playing it. 

Its gonna be like that till gold version and we accepted that in terms and conditions, when we bought the game.. 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by beerfly (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

21 minutes ago, Mad_Dane said:

I have played since 2013 and they have done nothing but slowing down progression and forcing people to play one way, ONLY THE WAY MAD MOLE LIKES OR GTFO!

As far as I know, there are frequent discussions between the development team members on all development choices.

Of course, the word of the "founding members" has its weight, but are you sure it works like you describe?

Have you got any insider info that we don't know of?

[Roland]

3 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

As far as I know, there are frequent discussions between the development team members on all development choices.

Of course, the word of the "founding members" has its weight, but are you sure it works like you describe?

Have you got any insider info that we don't know of?

 

Well it's not only whether it is just Madmole calling all the shots or not. It's also whether there really is just one way to play or not. What is this one way that people are forced into? How does Mad Dane want to play that they used to be able to do but can't anymore? I still feel like there are a lot of different ways to play the game. You just have to choose to do it.

[Mad_Dane]

33 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Well it's not only whether it is just Madmole calling all the shots or not. It's also whether there really is just one way to play or not. What is this one way that people are forced into? How does Mad Dane want to play that they used to be able to do but can't anymore? I still feel like there are a lot of different ways to play the game. You just have to choose to do it.

Either you go questing and looting or you play the rest of the game with a T1 stone axe and bow.
Building in a voxel engine is what makes this game special, there is much much better survival games out there!
Forcing everyone to go loot completely defeats the purpose of making an open world game!
And in case that went over your head, I like building big VERY big and it's simply not feasible to do solo, before you have motor tools, harvesting skills and all workstations, with the slowed down progress (From when you killed learning by doing), I already needed to spend upwards of 300 hours in a single seed to make a large build and now you want to slow it down again, by forcing me to go loot 2000 magazines before I can even get started building big!

Edit: Crafting has been useless since you removed the ability to craft T6, it's basically only used to plug the holes from when RNGeesus hates on you, this new system won't fix that.

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Mad_Dane (see edit history)