Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[mrsquish]

16 hours ago, crazywildfire said:

 

Empty jars will no longer be in game. You can drink from water sources pushing E to drink with a chance of getting sick. You can find glass water jars in loot and trader. But once you drink it the jar vanishes and no longer puts empty jar in inventory. At some point you can learn to make a dew collector that will give you X amount of glass water jars every X amount of time. Again once you drink it the jar vanishes.  I believe that is all we know so far. I might be missing something but that pretty much it I think. 

 

Thanks mate, that's what I thought. Seems that early game is going to be very difficult for base builder types unless the due collector is available very early.

[unholyjoe]

2 hours ago, mrsquish said:

 

Thanks mate, that's what I thought. Seems that early game is going to be very difficult for base builder types unless the due collector is available very early.

its available early... (IF)

 

1. you find and read at least ONE workstation magazine

2. you have enough dukes to purchase the water filter from the trader (any trader as any will have at least 1) (filter is needed to craft the collector and its not the helmet water filter)

3. you gathered the other common resources needed to craft the collector

4. dew collector MUST be out in the open (absolutely no roof of ANY type over it... so no under ground placement unless you provide a 3x3 hole above the collector), can be up on a roof and away from zeds and spitters which is where i keep mine. (not at my blood moon fighting base)

 

but seriously my son in law is a newb at 7dtd and he usually has his first one by day 2.

 

here is a screen showing you need to read 1 more magazine to unlock the dew collector

Edited January 5, 2023 by unholyjoe (see edit history)

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Riamus said:

... and in the current iteration of the game, it is designed for a maximum of 5 players and if ...

 

8

[Roland]

3 hours ago, mrsquish said:

unless the due collector is available very early.

 

No Librarians announced yet for the game.

 

Joking aside, I wouldn't be surprised if speed runner types were able to get a dew collector on day one. The rest of us will easily get one sometime within the first week.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

8

Oops, you're right.  Haven't looked at the number in a long time.  😁

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

No Librarians announced yet for the game.

 

Joking aside, I wouldn't be surprised if speed runner types were able to get a dew collector on day one. The rest of us will easily get one sometime within the first week.

Too bad... Would be a good zombie to add. 😜

[unholyjoe]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

 

No Librarians announced yet for the game.

 

Joking aside, I wouldn't be surprised if speed runner types were able to get a dew collector on day one. The rest of us will easily get one sometime within the first week.

agreed, my luck is nowhere near my son in laws. it takes me about 3-4 days or so. he seems to lucky as hell. 

 

[Aldranon]

6 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Some people might think differently, or at least this player does  🙂

 

I have modded my game so you can't repair equipment.  I have found iron or steel tools in loot (before I have the resources to craft new ones) and I will use them until I break them, then go down a tier.

 

In my playthroughs, I have had instances where I was using a Q5 steel pickaxe to mine until it broke, then crafted a Q4 iron pickaxe as a replacement until I found another steel one or was able to start crafting my own steel tools.

 

But that type of playing requires a specific mindset (where the goal of the game is just to survive with what you got) rather than looting to find the best gear and using it from that point on.

 

 

 

For me, this is the answer!

Getting an Auger or especially a M60 MG is GG and the game becomes too simple for me. 

A middle ground, however, could be that you can't make repair kits!  This could allow for some tough decision making as well.  

[NekoPawtato]

7 hours ago, unholyjoe said:

its available early... (IF)

 

1. you find and read at least ONE workstation magazine

2. you have enough dukes to purchase the water filter from the trader (any trader as any will have at least 1) (filter is needed to craft the collector and its not the helmet water filter)

3. you gathered the other common resources needed to craft the collector

4. dew collector MUST be out in the open (absolutely no roof of ANY type over it... so no under ground placement unless you provide a 3x3 hole above the collector), can be up on a roof and away from zeds and spitters which is where i keep mine. (not at my blood moon fighting base)

 

but seriously my son in law is a newb at 7dtd and he usually has his first one by day 2.

 

here is a screen showing you need to read 1 more magazine to unlock the dew collector

Any idea if dew collectors in a land claim block will prevent unallied strangers from accessing it? Since it sounds like we can't put bars over it, I'd wonder how you could prevent strangers from stealing water from your dew collectors 

Even on a roof they could gyro to it 😕 enough dew collectors on the roof it becomes like a landing pad 

Edited January 6, 2023 by NekoPawtato (see edit history)

[Grue]

11 hours ago, unholyjoe said:

no. they kept it simple.

 

doesnt matter if rainy, foggy,  windy or snowy as it doesnt change one drop of water.

 

day nor night does not change anything.

 

biomes DO NOT make any differences either.

 

only thing that changes its behavior is CODE and maybe a little xml (i wont swear about xml as i did not check it).

 

oh i did forget one thing.... it can be damaged/destroyed and when that happens... you dont get no water.

You know what would be real simple? Taking a jar down to a @%$#ing stream. That is simple.

 

Yes, Green Hell has dew catchers, that does not mean 7d2d needs to do it too. Even if you just "want to use this cool dew catcher model someone made", then by all means add it to the game, but it certainly doesn't make any sense to get rid of stone age concept of collecting river water to force players to use the new dew catcher, does it?

 

For one thing, Green Hell has dry seasons, 7d2d does not. And even in the dry season players could simply build near a source of water, and thus not need one. 

 

It comes down to player choice.

The way this mechanic is proposed to function takes more player choice away from the game than it adds.

 

Honestly it is not even the addition dew catchers that @%$#es me off, it is removing the concept of "things that hold water" (i.e., jars) to force me to use a dew catcher that literally outputs jars of water that makes no @%$#ing sense whatsoever.

 

Players should at the very least be able to ignore that dew catchers exist if they do not want to use them, and have them as an option in a desert biome where they logically might some have a use for it. 

 

Please stop railroading players with mechanics that should be at the very most, optional.

 

Which brings me to the skill system.

 

The current skill with experience points and collectible schematics strikes a reasonable balance, no need to waste dev time reinventing the wheel for this ridiculously convoluted magazine-based education system which forces people to waste time collecting McGuffins.

 

Players want to play in a sandbox, not a cattle chute

Edited January 6, 2023 by Grue (see edit history)

[Geministar14]

I haven't logged in here in eons, but I did try to read a lot of the pages to see if my question was posted anywhere. But, will there be any changes to the air drops? 
I play with a few friends and the air drops we've kind of just stopped picking them up. 

But can't wait for A21! Always look forward to a new game :)

[Jost Amman]

2 hours ago, Grue said:

Players want to play in a sandbox, not a cattle chute

Every time I see someone speaking for "a group" I think how weak their argument must be.

The water changes have been made for game balance, stop.

 

Realism or believability have nothing to do with it.

Why don't you complain about carrying TONS of materials in your backpack?

I'll tell you why: BECAUSE IT'S A @%$#ING GAME! 

[Grue]

2 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Every time I see someone speaking for "a group" I think how weak their argument must be.

The water changes have been made for game balance, stop.

 

Realism or believability have nothing to do with it.

Why don't you complain about carrying TONS of materials in your backpack?

I'll tell you why: BECAUSE IT'S A @%$#ING GAME! 

 

And yet you still managed not to address the points made in the argument.

Thanks for your non-contribution.

[9ironkiller]

I’m hearing, that water can no longer be collected from normal water sources in A21, i.e. rivers and lakes etc….and will be relegated to being a lootable item or through a rain collector with limited daily capacity?

 

are farmers/cooks getting screwed over again?

[Jost Amman]

49 minutes ago, Grue said:

And yet you still managed not to address the points made in the argument.

Thanks for your non-contribution.

I don't need to address them, because I think the current A21 implementation could be the right choice.

 

I could discuss any number of theories about how the game should be, but why? The devs make educated choices on their game. I can agree or disagree with them, like them or not, but I won't discuss John Doe's theories on how the game should be, because I'm only interested, to the most, in discussing feedback. This is not feedback, this is preemptive whining based on how you imagine the game will play out.

 

I'll gladly discuss feedback on A21 experimental when it's out, though.

[RipClaw]

20 minutes ago, 9ironkiller said:

I’m hearing, that water can no longer be collected from normal water sources in A21, i.e. rivers and lakes etc….and will be relegated to being a lootable item or through a rain collector with limited daily capacity?

 

are farmers/cooks getting screwed over again?

Let me put it this way. You have to work a little harder for your water. In the beginning, you will only have the water you find. With the first dew collector you have a reliable source that gives you 3 jar of clean water about every 60 minutes realtime. After that you build a second and maybe a third dew collector but that should cover the essential needs for most players.

 

Players like me who have a high demand for water because they use a lot of glue, for example, will need more dew collectors. Eventually we will have more water than we need but it will take a little longer to build up a reliable water supply.

 

[Aldranon]

About the water survival changes:

One could easily role-play that surface water is contaminated by cesium-137 (a byproduct of some nuclear detonations).  It desolves quickly into water and becomes cesium-hydroxide.  Drinking this will just TFU your body.  After 60-90 years, it might not be absolutely terrible if you drink ground water again...

[meilodasreh]

39 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

About the water survival changes:

One could easily role-play that surface water is contaminated by cesium-137 (a byproduct of some nuclear detonations).  It desolves quickly into water and becomes cesium-hydroxide.  Drinking this will just TFU your body.  After 60-90 years, it might not be absolutely terrible if you drink ground water again...

 

hardcore players will also be able to roleplay that water from the dew collector is contaminated too, because birds/vultures occasionally poop into its funnel,

which will add to the survival aspect even more.

[Aldranon]

12 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

 

hardcore players will also be able to roleplay that water from the dew collector is contaminated too, because birds/vultures occasionally poop into its funnel,

which will add to the survival aspect even more.

 

Obviously knowing this, TFP's A23 will have Bald Eagles as pets, I'm sure.

[meilodasreh]

Those could be placed into a modslot of the dew collector to drastically reduce the chance of vulture-poop contamination.

 

btw is boiled poop water safe to drink?

...not that I really want to know, just came up in my mind

[meganoth]

Lets address your points then

 

5 hours ago, Grue said:

You know what would be real simple? Taking a jar down to a @%$#ing stream. That is simple.

 

Exactly. Too simple. So it was changed for gameplay reasons. Like all other strangeness the game has you will not notice it once you get used to it.

 

5 hours ago, Grue said:

Yes, Green Hell has dew catchers, that does not mean 7d2d needs to do it too. Even if you just "want to use this cool dew catcher model someone made", then by all means add it to the game, but it certainly doesn't make any sense to get rid of stone age concept of collecting river water to force players to use the new dew catcher, does it?

 

I am not aware that 7D2D got dew collectors because Green Hell has them. At least this supposed reason you invented here is a lot better than the usual "TFP did it to prevent my playstyle" 😉

 

5 hours ago, Grue said:

For one thing, Green Hell has dry seasons, 7d2d does not. And even in the dry season players could simply build near a source of water, and thus not need one. 

 

It comes down to player choice.

The way this mechanic is proposed to function takes more player choice away from the game than it adds.

 

Which choice exactly is prevented?

 

5 hours ago, Grue said:

 

Honestly it is not even the addition dew catchers that @%$#es me off, it is removing the concept of "things that hold water" (i.e., jars) to force me to use a dew catcher that literally outputs jars of water that makes no @%$#ing sense whatsoever.

 

Players should at the very least be able to ignore that dew catchers exist if they do not want to use them, and have them as an option in a desert biome where they logically might some have a use for it. 

 

Like they are able to ignore the forge? You can find and buy water in the world and avoid dew catchers like you can ignore the forge and find or buy forged iron and steel and end products you would build in the forge. Exactly the same, right?

 

5 hours ago, Grue said:

 

Please stop railroading players with mechanics that should be at the very most, optional.

5 hours ago, Grue said:

Which brings me to the skill system.

 

The current skill with experience points and collectible schematics strikes a reasonable balance, no need to waste dev time reinventing the wheel for this ridiculously convoluted magazine-based education system which forces people to waste time collecting McGuffins.

 

Players want to play in a sandbox, not a cattle chute

 

The thing is that the magazine system does not force normal players to do anything that they aren't doing already. Are you going through POIs collecting stuff? If yes, you will automatically find magazines. You don't need to change your routine at all if you don't flat out ignore the scavenging part

 

 

[meilodasreh]

I don't know about that part with "just rely on buying steel instead of having a forge".

At least I wouldn't have the money to get enough for a decent lategame base.

But maybe A21 will get pricing overhaul too, so I don't complain now.

 

Not being anxious but curious how all those changes will feel.

[BFT2020]

7 hours ago, Grue said:

The current skill with experience points and collectible schematics strikes a reasonable balance, no need to waste dev time reinventing the wheel for this ridiculously convoluted magazine-based education system which forces people to waste time collecting McGuffins.

 

The crafting system in 7D2D was broken, it needed work on it.  All you had to do was buy into one of the perks and you could start crafting T3 weapons at Q5 and bypass the other tiers.  It also couldn't keep up with the loot level progression.

 

The old system I would loot POIs and find multiple copies of the same schematic.  The first one had value, the other were simply cash sells if I bothered to keep them to sell to the trader.  Now, each time I find a magazine for items I am wanting to craft, I get progress with each find.

[Westwud]

I haven't seen this being mentioned anywhere. Now that glass jars are removed, I think it would make sense to remove empty cans as well. They are only used for making oil and can of sham which can be swapped for something like plastic polymers or raw iron. One less item to clutter the inventory.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

I don't know about that part with "just rely on buying steel instead of having a forge".

At least I wouldn't have the money to get enough for a decent lategame base.

But maybe A21 will get pricing overhaul too, so I don't complain now.

 

I made a comparison. Avoiding to use the dew collector is as easy or difficult as avoiding the forge. I didn't say anything about HOW difficult it is.

 

In effect if Grue is okay with the forge being in the game he should be okay with the dew collector as well.

 

2 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

Not being anxious but curious how all those changes will feel.

 

[BFT2020]

4 minutes ago, Westwud said:

I haven't seen this being mentioned anywhere. Now that glass jars are removed, I think it would make sense to remove empty cans as well. They are only used for making oil and can of sham which can be swapped for something like plastic polymers or raw iron. One less item to clutter the inventory.

 

They are being removed also.